i was raised a girl and its so fucking obvious how everyone starts forcing you to never react to any of their disgusting misogyny. i hope you build the confidence to treat this asshole behaviour how it should be treated
It doesn't full on piss me off, I just find it a bit annoying, but the replies I got are making me consider that I'm not reacting to this as much as I should... I don't really tend to feel anger for some reason, I just get sad instead, so I guess that makes me lack a sort of fierceness that would make a person snap and want to put an end to it. In any case, I'm grateful for the replies, I feel less alone now in thinking that it's messed up since they're all so casual about commenting on my body. I appreciate you all!
( ╹▽╹ )
I understand that you may not feel anger/rage exactly at this <3<3. People can feel emotions in different ways
.
This makes me even more annoyed because I know for a fact that if I were instead a man who was undesirable in some way, they wouldn't be so critical and would instead say that it doesn't matter and that women just have standards that are too high. But because I'm a woman, I'm supposed to make my whole life revolve around pleasing men.
This is absolutely on point. It's unfair for you to have to practically worship and bow to what men want, all the time.
I can tell you're an insightful and thoughtful person, and it's clear that you have clear sights at the abusive and irrational natures of your father's and brothers' treatment towards you. Here is some more info to help us better identify and specify some specific kinds of sexual objectification there can be <3.
According to philosopher Martha Nussbaum, sexual objectification of women positions them in relation to men:
- as a tool for another's purposes (instrumentality);
- as if lacking in agency or self-determination (denial of autonomy, inertness);
- as if owned by another (ownership);
- as if interchangeable (fungibility);
- as if permissible to damage or destroy (violability);
- as if there is no need for concern for their feelings and experiences (denial of subjectivity)[6]
You are more than a sex toy. You
do have your own will. And you are not owned by anybody, you own your own body and no one else has the right to dictate how you present. You are not a material good to be marketed, you are a human being with a life that means more than
just what is seen in a singe glance. You have your own personal feelings and personal experiences that deserve understanding and respect of the humanity they bear.
Ew your family is way too concerned with your body. Comments as well as touching you to prove their point is highly inappropriate.
I agree. It's fuckin' creepy. If a guy on the street came up to you and fuckin' cupped a woman's breasts, then it would be 100% okay for that woman to fuckin'
deck him; and for passerbys to also come in and deck him, too. Violating a woman's
own body by
sexually touching them causes
pain, and women who injure physically men who injure them psychologically through abusive touch, are not "violent", they desire bodily autonomy, to be able to exist unmolested, and that is something every human being deserves. Any person who violates that bodily security, who demonstrates they care fuck all for other people's bodily security, sanity, and happiness—should expect to receive just as much respect in the form of self-defense practiced by the victim, and all physically able passerbys. Men have no right to abuse women's bodies, nor to treat them as if they are material products that they can play with all they want—and men who do this are fucking criminals.
To sexually abuse: that is, to wrongfully use a person's body, without (against) their consent, for not just sexual pleasure but actual sadistic wish to overpower people; to want to
dominate someone to the degree of making them suffer, of
disempowering them, this is absolutely criminal. Men don't just harass women purely out of "lust" for sex, but a lust for power, too. Countless societies (pretty much all), both poor and rich, big and small, have so-called "traditions" of brainwashing men into thinking that this horrific dehumanizing behavior is somehow tolerable to
half of all human beings, just because they were born under the female sex. There are many kinds of tradition. Tradition itself is not the issue—it is specific channels of traditions that permit the abuse of women. And yes, those traditions are numerous—but they are specific traditions nonetheless. I'm all for culture and community; I merely insist that culture and community give heed to the humanity and wellbeing of
half of its own humans.
This might help, as I am 70 years old.
Back in the 1970's, I am built like a string. ZERO muscles, and I received so much grief that I still remember some of it, HORRIBLE!
NOW, fast forward to TODAY, and at my 50th high school class reunion, YIKES! seeing some of those that gave me so much grief and guess what????
I have traveled the U.S. on business and personal, I have made a HUGE life for myself, and those same ones are STILL in their same old same old ways and have NEVER done anything ever.
So, who came out ahead? HUM?????? They actually started out after NOT seeing me since 1974, with a HUGE dig, about me, I just smiled and walked away knowing who ACTUALLY did better in life.
You WILL be great and pass everyone that has been mean.
Hugs to a great friend!
Walter
Thank you for sharing your story Walter. I hope you don't mind if I add some more details from what I remember of your story from your other posts, for the sake of our OP
@grass.
It's really shitty how your parents kicked you out so young, Walter; and I find your story powerful and relevant here because it shows that parents
can be shitty to their kids; and that this truly is grievous and painful to those pushed under them, but that it
is possible to overpower that disempowerment; not immediately, but at least over time, and with time and healing become able to have within reach a life worth living
.
There's a word I would describe your father's and brother's behavior as,
@grass.
Rapey. They act like you
have to be "sexually desirable", in
their own opinion. That is creepy as FUCK. Why is your
own family trying to evaluate
your own sexual desirability, and
pressuring you into changing to
fit their own depraved opinions. Like, your dad and brother "rating" your own "fuckability" (in their PERSONAL opinions) is beyond fucked up. They need to have their speaking licenses revoked.
I've had people confess to me even tho I'm flat bc my face is allegedly alright
I wanna comment something. You are far more than your body, your face, your hair, and any of your physical attributes. A lot of the times people feel drawn to people and love them deeply not because of any physical attribute alone, but because of characteristics that go beyond what the eye can see. A lot of the time these non-physical characteristics have such strong influence on a person's heart and mind that they literally change how a person processes the physical traits.
It should also be noted that attraction is a complex phenomenon. One such example of this is the
"mere-exposure" effect. A person can find someone boring (e.g. emotionally, visually, etc) at first, but with continued exposure and time spent with this person, later develop positive emotions, at times even energetic feelings of resonance with a person too. First impressions are not everything. The thing that
actually makes the effects (and affects) in a person is the
sum of
all the impressions; because thoughts and emotions change and evolve over time, as knowledge and perspective grows.
So not only are the depraved perversions of your patriarchical misogynistic male "family" members originating from clearly a lack of concern for your wellbeing, but a lack of concern for how people actually perceive and experience attraction as well.
It really is unfair how much women have to live up to men's Hollywood expectations. Big boobs, tiny waist, blemishless skin, hairless legs, etc. Whereas men don't wear makeup, wear the same drab outfits day in and day out, are expected to be loved regardless of whether or not they have a dad bod or are hairer then a bear. They don't live to please us, why should we be expected to live to please them?
Hollywood is just one "beauty standard" anyway. There are
so many different ways that people see and feel "beauty"; and that itself is beautiful, honestly. Thank you for sharing your own perspective on what you find beautiful; there is real power in that, challenging these cookie-cutter standards of beauty that are mostly enforced through popularity and power. The power that patriarchy uses to police women's bodies and the power that capitalism expresses in marketing and selling ideas and specific authored images of specific expressions which are a fraction of the ways that women and their bodies/dresses can be expressed by them, and then having the gall to say "this is the "right" way to be", "and all others are "less desirable"". That is fucked up.
They don't live to please us, why should we be expected to live to please them?
Powerful words. Fully agree.
I could comment on it, but honestly you worded it likely better than I, haha :3.
Women are people too. Women have feelings too; and they have desires and ambitions of their own.
Their life matters too.
To expect women to
always suppress
their own life and wishes for
men's lusts is insane. That truly is a caste system. A master–slave psychological complex, that men are brainwashed into, and that they try to brainwash women into as well. The more women they are unable to brainwash, the less power they have over women <3. But it's not the fault of women for being pressured into such positions; it's the fault of men for gaslighting women like this. When a lot of men just keep on doing that and make systems to fuel that, yeah, one gets patriarchy.
Women do not exist to be exploited by men. Women deserve to live with their own autonomy, freedom, and actually have society provide for them—as it should for every soul—the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Women deserve to live on their own terms; free from men. They should have the power to arbitrate their own relationships and ties with men; and the ties between women and men should never act as a leash for men to restrain or drag women whereever or however they choose. When a tie is being abused like that, when a connection is being used to exploit someone, it should be 100% within their power to cut off that tie and live a freer life, preferring connection with those who give them respect, comfort, and validation of humanity, in place of violation ♥.
I'm also slightly underweight and my dad keeps telling me to eat more, but I realised pretty soon that it's not out of genuine concern for my wellbeing but because I'm flat and therefore undesirable to men in his eyes.
He should keep his eyes to himself <3. He should not be rating the perceived fuckability of his own fucking daughter. Highly sus.
My brothers make jokes about it sometimes which is fine with me, it's harmless. Except when I got touched there to prove how "you can't even cup them with your hands". That's not fun.
Nor should your brothers be messing with your body. If they touch you inappropiately again, kick them in the nuts; it can be excused as rough play among siblings.
However, you absolutely have personal power to choose the reactions
you prefer, and I empower you to respond in whichever manner you deem appropiate ♥.
Just to be clear: you don't
have to enact physical self-defense or reactions of righteous anger if you truly do not wish to. But no matter which route you take, I truly wish for there to be physical distance between you and the hands of the men who violate you like this; and I also wish for there to be physical distance between your ears and the mouths of the men who think it's okay to make your body the butt of their jokes.
Your body is not a joke. It deserves respect. Men who make fun of your body often use it as a way to throw veiled insults onto you. That's shitty. That is insulting.
I don't want to command you to respond to insult in one "specific" way ♥. And honestly just having to respond to it is a pretty harsh spot to be in in the first place!
And if you tell them to fuck off they probably will be a bit unhappy. But maybe that's okay. Maybe they don't have to be happy: especially when they are giving
you pain. It's okay to tell someone to fuck off when they're verbally abusing your body. That stuff can really injure you.
And honestly trying to "explain" to them why it's wrong, may not be productive. These are men who do not care about causing suffering to you. So telling them that your words injure you is not giving them any new information at all.
Maybe the most productive self-beneficial thing to you is to just leave the situation if they start saying mean things about your body. They lose the fun of insulting you, and you lose the active harm of having to worry about a hurtful voice in your ear. It may be uncomfortable to move around from room to room, or sometimes even going outside, maybe even going to the coffee shop or library. But it sends a clear message: "I refuse to tolerate being treated like that."
I hope this wasn't weird or inappropriate, I just needed to get it off my chest.
You are the victim in this situation: you have an inalienable right to speak out about the violations you have experienced, as well as what they made you feel, too.
Never let anyone tell you that you don't have a right to talk about this cuz it's "weird or inappropiate". If they do that to you (weird and inappropiate things,
physically done to your
body and
verbally to your psyche), then
you 100% have a right to at least
talk about what you experienced.
The comfort experienced by someone
hearing about this is
less than the pain you
actually felt having
experienced it. I can understand if someone may be triggered by your story—but if they are triggered by it, that means they have experienced something similar; and if they have suffered something similar, shouldn't they be empathetic to what you experienced, and be sitting with you to help you process those unprocessed raw emotions and feelings, rather than trying to make you feel like the odd one out for just wanting some understanding and peace? But of course, you can't force anyone to be an empathetic, humanizing listener, who actually helps relieve your pain and pressure of having few people to discuss this openly with. You deserve open and sensitive people to discuss your vulnerable experiences with, and may all the comfort of caring careful human company and understanding come to you, through the best of people, who will
validate the pain you felt and make you feel you aren't alone in the confusion and frustration you feel. Because you are far from the only woman who experiences this abuse. May you find women who you can feel are your own found family, who will feel like sisters and mothers and siblings to you, who will make you feel supported and embraced in your own life and make you feel safe in your own body.
just being who I am and trying to find someone who will accept me and love me for more than my body.
That is the correct approach indeed <3. And that is an approach to making all
kinds of relationships; good friends, too :). From among all kinds of people and genders, whoever you feel comfortable with ^^.
someone who will accept me and love me for more than my body.
And that is the only kind of partner worth your time, anyway ♥.
And that is the only kind of friend worth your time, anyway.
People who value you not just for physical traits in your body, but because they value your
humanity, and your
soul. Who love what you love. Who value what you value. Who see you as a person who deserves to be treated like a human being; with respect, love, and appreciation for who you are and what you love.
You are not crazy. You are experiencing the pain of being gaslit. I pray (secularly) that you are freed from these abusive and insane men, and find yourself so so often in the company of good people who will see your humanity and not hyperfixate on your body. There
are sane and respectful people like that in this world <3<3. May they become your common company, acquaintances, and dear friends as well
.
Your true family are those who respect your humanity and treat you well. May you find people whom you are so mutually connected with, who you feel so affirmed and embraced by, whose social circles you feel comforted, protected, and respected in, that you may feel willing to call them your "true family"
.
en.wikipedia.org
Know that your own pain, your own terrible experiences—with men who made you feel guilty for existing as a human, and violating you with touch and verbally abusing you—allow you to understand the pain of other women, and to have a razor-sharp lens on how men abuse women. It's not always dramatic rape scenes; it is also sly ways like this, that often slip under the radar of far too many people. Abuse is abuse, misogyny is misogyny, patriarchy is patriarchy; from the most momentary of interactions to the most shocking of events. The bigger signs are built on top of the smaller acts. It can be understood. It can be opposed. It can be dismantled. The first step is people realizing the lived reality of the women who are continously injured by patriarchy, over and over again.
I hope you will be able to find many sensitive and morally caring people whom you can speak about
all your experiences viscerally with, down to the most painful things, at least as much as you are comfortable speaking about to whomsoever you choose <3. I hope such people will feel your emotions and sit with you, and comfort you through the pain of having been treated awfully like this, that too, by your own born family, who
should have made your life
easier and
protected you, rather than
violating and
abusing you like this. You deserve better people around you. And may they be in your life, and may such people feel accessible and discoverable to you.
i was raised a girl and its so fucking obvious how everyone starts forcing you to never react to any of their disgusting misogyny. i hope you build the confidence to treat this asshole behaviour how it should be treated
I agree, it's bullshit. They try to suppress reactions to this actually criminal behavior because they just want to keep doing it, they just want to keep abusing, dehumanizing women. It's unfortunate that they try so hard to force women to comply with this insanity.
Maybe it's time you got pissed off about them acting all weird and told them all to shut the fuck up, especially your father, what a sicko.
Regardless of how you react,
@grass, yeah; your brother(s) and father are sickos because no sane respecting human being would treat a
stranger, let alone your
own daughter or sister, the way you were treated. It's sick; it's them expressing their deep-rooted misogyny in hateful dehumanizing ways against your own body and person.
Stuff like this is why I'd pick my chosen family over my biological family any day of the week.
It makes total sense that you prefer people who respect your humanity and body over people who are sickeningly complacent with violating it ♥.
Grass, I want to let you know that you experience
is real. It might seem "light", but it's still fucked up regardless, and still FAR from how a caring family would treat it's
own flesh and blood. That makes it fucked up. That makes it serious.
Here is a link to "RAINN", the "Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network". They have resources and even some phonelines to call in case you want to vent to someone who actually understands the gravity of what you've went through. I know phonelines seem cliché, and I truly hope that you will have people to talk to over and over who will remember your experiences and become part of your life and you theirs, but perhaps a phoneline can be useful if you want someone to talk to and you struggle to find anyone available <3.
How Does RAINN Help Survivors? No matter who you are, where you’re from, or what you’ve experienced, RAINN is here for you. Join Our Community
rainn.org
They also have resources outside of just phonelines too; including educational resources as well. I hope even a single piece of anything from their website may be of potential aid
.
Thank you for sharing your experience. You helped other people here feel that they are not the only ones who suffer from this source of pain that you've been injured by too. The word "injury" comes from similar origins of the word "injustice". You've been injured and the men in your life from your family have done injustices against you. Thank you for openly speaking about this here and bringing this discussion forward to people. More people need to be aware of what women experience; especially in terms of sexual abuse, especially from family as well.
I'm sorry you went through this, and I'm sorry that the men in your life were so senseless and mindless as to be under the impression that this behavior is somehow acceptable, for
any woman, let alone their own fucking sister, their own fucking daughter.
I hope that other women who have suffered similar things as you will run into you in any way, and tell you about their own pains from what they've suffered at the hands of men, and I sincerely feel that they will feel comforted, affirmed, and truly embraced in hearing about your own pain that you endured in your very own experiences with patriarchy & misogyny as well.
You are a powerful woman for realizing what these awful men are telling you is the bullcrap it is.
It is a struggle of its own to stay sane, to maintain a healthy and humanizing view of yourself, with degrading people like this in your life. Having good people around you will help you to stay sane and to maintain your own sense of humanity, to make you feel like a human being who deserves decency and respect from other people.
You deserve respect: at the end of the day, you are a human being. Women are human beings too. Women have feelings and ambitions and minds too. Those minds and wishes deserve respect just as much as any other human.
Especially more than the depraved opinions of those who think it's okay to violate women.
I am truly wishing you well. I hope you live a long life full of respect and love and company and care from here on out. I hope you experience living a life you feel you can truly call your own, that you feel
proud to call your own, even. And may all the awful people who violate you feel detached and cut off from such a life; and may you feel most connected and embraced by people who respect and affirm you every day or every time you meet them: people who not only make you feel human, but who make you feel glad to be human, as well.
I wish you way more than luck
. Sincerely wishing you the best in all things of company and community from here on out :hugging_people:
Sincerely,
Flow
