Discussion Forces behind SN becoming restricted?

[almaranthine]

Why is this happening? Sure, we know about the Amazon lawsuits because of the generated "suicide kits" that the algorithm began suggesting to buyers. Sodium Nitrite is completely legal, and is not a controlled substance though; how is it that companies are being held responsible for what a small percentage of people are doing with a LEGAL product?? Someone decides to drink bleach... no one is suing Clorox. Someone dies from alcohol poisoning... no one can legitimately sue the liquor company. It just doesn't make any sense to me. With all this controversy and the fact that these companies shouldn't be legally responsible for sending a product to private buyers that has legitimate uses (home curing for meats, fish eggs, etc) HOW is there not at least one company totally capitalizing and making money off this situation? As long as the goddamn container says "not for human consumption" these sellers should not be held legally responsible for anyone's fucking death whatsoever. How has this gone so far?? How were pro-life forces able to threaten these places to the point where they were no longer able to sell a legal product?? I just don't get it and the whole situation stresses me out SO much. I feel absolutely terrible for those no longer able to access SN that need it.

 

[cowie]

It's kind of wild. I think it makes it clear that this is one of the most painless and easiest options available. If they don't clamp down now, I honestly think word would keep spreading and many desperate people would find the out they've been looking for. They can't have a reasonable option available, because the truth is a lot of people would take it if they knew. It is still available in some places.

 

[almaranthine]

It's kind of wild. I think it makes it clear that this is one of the most painless and easiest options available. If they don't clamp down now, I honestly think word would keep spreading and many desperate people would find the out they've been looking for. They can't have a reasonable option available, because the truth is a lot of people would take it if they knew. It is still available in some places.

I completely agree with you. What I wonder is, who precisely, are "they"? Pro-life lawmakers? Is there some kind of global panel of elites who realize, "oh no, the peasants have found a way to end their pain with little suffering at a very low cost using a surprisingly cheap, widely available chemical... time to put a stop to this!!"

It's just so fucking sinister. Uncanny, really.

 

[universe]

I imagine that pro-lifers tell themselves that they absolutely must limit suicides by prohibiting the means of suicide. It is difficult if not impossible to ban ropes, knives and bleach as these are essential products. But everything beyond this framework should be prohibited according to them. It is absolutely despicable and it is a very widespread idea in our societies. I feel hurt just writing these words. In my country, the SN is already very strongly limited: only to companies and pharmacies. So either way, as long as they can't find IC it should be fine.

I am thinking of the case of supermarket helium for balloons, where manufacturers have made sure to integrate 20% oxygen. I do not know if the sources I have consulted are reliable and if this is true, but it seems that the composition of helium or any other gas canister is decisive in the case of a CTB. I know there have been questions about this on the forum.

In my country there was a case of this kind. A young girl overdosed on an over-the-counter painkiller from a pharmacy. The girl's mother, blinded by anger, did absolutely everything to ban it: she appeared on all the TV sets, and set up a petition that reached the government. Since then, this drug is under prescription. Suffice to say that if you have severe pain where you can hardly get up, it is difficult to obtain a good painkiller quickly since you need a prescription. And now this medicine is hard to get because doctors are suspicious and think you are drug addicts. It's like that for all drugs: before, benzos were unlimited, opiates and now everything is limited. Already that life is not funny but in addition we can not do anything more. Fortunately, the alcohol is still in the supermarket.

 

[cowie]

I completely agree with you. What I wonder is, who precisely, are "they"? Pro-life lawmakers? Is there some kind of global panel of elites who realize, "oh no, the peasants have found a way to end their pain with little suffering at a very low cost using a surprisingly cheap, widely available chemical... time to put a stop to this!!"

It's just so fucking sinister. Uncanny, really.

I haven't seen any new laws on the books in the US, but I could have missed something. My guess is there are online marketplaces looking at what's happening to Amazon and scrambling to avoid a lawsuit themselves by not selling it anymore. I think the medical community may be involved because there has been some discussion of SN in medical journals this year. Maybe they are contacting sellers of SN and warning them. Companies really want to avoid lawsuits and bad publicity.

There may be things going on that aren't being reported on because it will just draw more attention to the effectiveness of the method. Stories about the lawsuits are filled with descriptions of "painful, agonizing" deaths even though literally no one actually witnessed these deaths. It's propaganda and behind the scenes coordination.

 

[almaranthine]

I imagine that pro-lifers tell themselves that they absolutely must limit suicides by prohibiting the means of suicide. It is difficult if not impossible to ban ropes, knives and bleach as these are essential products. But everything beyond this framework should be prohibited according to them. It is absolutely despicable and it is a very widespread idea in our societies. I feel hurt just writing these words. In my country, the SN is already very strongly limited: only to companies and pharmacies. So either way, as long as they can't find IC it should be fine.

I am thinking of the case of supermarket helium for balloons, where manufacturers have made sure to integrate 20% oxygen. I do not know if the sources I have consulted are reliable and if this is true, but it seems that the composition of helium or any other gas canister is decisive in the case of a CTB. I know there have been questions about this on the forum.

In my country there was a case of this kind. A young girl overdosed on an over-the-counter painkiller from a pharmacy. The girl's mother, blinded by anger, did absolutely everything to ban it: she appeared on all the TV sets, and set up a petition that reached the government. Since then, this drug is under prescription. Suffice to say that if you have severe pain where you can hardly get up, it is difficult to obtain a good painkiller quickly since you need a prescription. And now this medicine is hard to get because doctors are suspicious and think you are drug addicts. It's like that for all drugs: before, benzos were unlimited, opiates and now everything is limited. Already that life is not funny but in addition we can not do anything more. Fortunately, the alcohol is still in the supermarket.

It is genuinely really sad that people don't have access to decent painkillers any longer. This affects the poor who don't have health insurance or the money to do to the doctor to treat their pain in the first place. It's so infuriating and tragic. The restriction of benzodiazepines is terrible as well. I found that klonopin really helped me but I was unable to get my prescription renewed or changed to Xanax. Instead, the dr tried to get me on SSRIs. I legitimately binned the prescription and never went back.

All this makes me wonder what kind of substances are out there that can induce a relatively peaceful death that we just don't know about because no one has died from it yet. There are plenty of poisonous plant substances, some available even as tincture supplements... but most of these cause death by organ failure which is most definitely the opposite of peaceful. I once ordered Pennyroyal tincture because I was terrified that I was pregnant. It can be used to induce an abortion but it is very toxic in high doses and can kill. I can order a few bottles and down it, even catch a buzz from the bit of alcohol contained... but, I would suffer tremendously. I hope for people in the future that some kind of substance like SN will be discovered. My heart hurts for those in pain that will find out about this method too late.

I haven't seen any new laws on the books in the US, but I could have missed something. My guess is there are online marketplaces looking at what's happening to Amazon and scrambling to avoid a lawsuit themselves by not selling it anymore. I think the medical community may be involved because there has been some discussion of SN in medical journals this year. Maybe they are contacting sellers of SN and warning them. Companies really want to avoid lawsuits and bad publicity.

There may be things going on that aren't being reported on because it will just draw more attention to the effectiveness of the method. Stories about the lawsuits are filled with descriptions of "painful, agonizing" deaths even though literally no one actually witnessed these deaths. It's propaganda and behind the scenes coordination.

I get that these companies can be warned about the "danger to public health" that the product may pose... but as it currently stands, it's still legal, so how exactly would a company be legitimately sued for selling it? That's the part that really confuses me. The Amazon lawsuit is different as they are being sued because of what the "customers also bought" feature was displaying, not for simply selling the product. Can you really sue a company for someone's death when the product literally says on it that it is toxic to humans if consumed? But yeah, I get what your saying about the publicity and everything and a company not wanting its name in a news article mentioning someone using their product specifically to off themselves.

 

[Smart No More]

I think the restrictions are another knee jerk response to suicide. It's just how the world instinctively handles death. It's maddening for sure. I don't think it's done with malice or ill intent of any kind. It's a case of naivety and lacking ability or inclination to see past surface level simplicity. Monkey see monkey, monkey do, monkey fling poo.

"Ooo! Death bad - must stop death."

Humans seem to have collectively stopped looking at/seeing context and it bugs me no end.

 

[jodes2]

Why is this happening? Sure, we know about the Amazon lawsuits because of the generated "suicide kits" that the algorithm began suggesting to buyers. Sodium Nitrite is completely legal, and is not a controlled substance though; how is it that companies are being held responsible for what a small percentage of people are doing with a LEGAL product?? Someone decides to drink bleach... no one is suing Clorox. Someone dies from alcohol poisoning... no one can legitimately sue the liquor company. It just doesn't make any sense to me. With all this controversy and the fact that these companies shouldn't be legally responsible for sending a product to private buyers that has legitimate uses (home curing for meats, fish eggs, etc) HOW is there not at least one company totally capitalizing and making money off this situation? As long as the goddamn container says "not for human consumption" these sellers should not be held legally responsible for anyone's fucking death whatsoever. How has this gone so far?? How were pro-life forces able to threaten these places to the point where they were no longer able to sell a legal product?? I just don't get it and the whole situation stresses me out SO much. I feel absolutely terrible for those no longer able to access SN that need it.

It's why I ordered SN while I still can, even if I don't CTB for decades

 

[universe]

It is genuinely really sad that people don't have access to decent painkillers any longer. This affects the poor who don't have health insurance or the money to do to the doctor to treat their pain in the first place. It's so infuriating and tragic. The restriction of benzodiazepines is terrible as well. I found that klonopin really helped me but I was unable to get my prescription renewed or changed to Xanax. Instead, the dr tried to get me on SSRIs. I legitimately binned the prescription and never went back.

All this makes me wonder what kind of substances are out there that can induce a relatively peaceful death that we just don't know about because no one has died from it yet. There are plenty of poisonous plant substances, some available even as tincture supplements... but most of these cause death by organ failure which is most definitely the opposite of peaceful. I once ordered Pennyroyal tincture because I was terrified that I was pregnant. It can be used to induce an abortion but it is very toxic in high doses and can kill. I can order a few bottles and down it, even catch a buzz from the bit of alcohol contained... but, I would suffer tremendously. I hope for people in the future that some kind of substance like SN will be discovered. My heart hurts for those in pain that will find out about this method too late.

It's true that this story of drug restriction is already revealing something. The pains of people are not really considered and believed. You need a prescription. Either a doctor / pharmacist can not measure the pain and verify that yes you are suffering well. The relief of our pain is therefore conditioned by this medical course and therefore the will of outsiders who do not feel this pain. So here is what it gives for the choice of the CTB…

Of course, there will always be the toxic plants that I know well and know where to find (hemlock, foxglove, aconite, arum italicum) but they almost all work with alkaloids: a 2-hour agony with severe vomiting, nausea, dizziness, convulsion, headaches and pralysis which ends in cardiac arrest. There are still some deadly mushrooms, but here too people take a long time to die 15 days after eating the mushroom, or even several weeks.

 

[almaranthine]

It's why I ordered SN while I still can, even if I don't CTB for decades

As soon as I saw 👁👁's post about losing the bait cure source I found a third party selling the company's product and ordered it today... no time left to procrastinate.

It's true that this story of drug restriction is already revealing something. The pains of people are not really considered and believed. You need a prescription. Either a doctor / pharmacist can not measure the pain and verify that yes you are suffering well. The relief of our pain is therefore conditioned by this medical course and therefore the will of outsiders who do not feel this pain. So here is what it gives for the choice of the CTB…

Of course, there will always be the toxic plants that I know well and know where to find (hemlock, foxglove, aconite, arum italicum) but they almost all work with alkaloids: a 2-hour agony with severe vomiting, nausea, dizziness, convulsion, headaches and pralysis which ends in cardiac arrest. There are still some deadly mushrooms, but here too people take a long time to die 15 days after eating the mushroom, or even several weeks.

As far as plant's go... yeah, there's yew as well, also a rather unpleasant process from what I've gathered. One could also poison oneself with tobacco/nicotine... also terrible. Hm, there's datura too... yep, hallucinating and then dying from scopolamine poising basically, hard pass. Then all of the lovely plants that kill you slowly by shutting down your organs... How ironic is it that nature itself can't offer us ONE plant that will just take you out quick and easy? Ffs

 

[universe]

As far as plant's go... yeah, there's yew as well, also a rather unpleasant process from what I've gathered. One could also poison oneself with tobacco/nicotine... also terrible. Hm, there's datura too... yep, hallucinating and then dying from scopolamine poising basically, hard pass. Then all of the lovely plants that kill you slowly by shutting down your organs... How ironic is it that nature itself can't offer us ONE plant that will just take you out quick and easy? Ffs

A good belladona pie! It is true that with all the viruses, natural disasters, animals with deadly venom nature did not even bother to foresee this. She really makes fun of us, it's unbelievable. And again, if this style of plant really existed, I'm sure they would make it illegal like planting heroin or whatever.
Otherwise you have to find a deadly snake but again it's mission impossible.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

why is the detergent method (H2S) not popular? its ingredients are easy to purchase.

It's why I ordered SN while I still can, even if I don't CTB for decades

This is a good idea. As long as you don't break the container's seal (store SN properly), its shelf life is "almost infinite" (according to PPH).

 

[IfyouareamanWinston]

It seems to me like it has more to do with companies wanted to limit bad press and lawsuits. Obviously it makes no sense that the family should be able to sue for damages when someone chooses to ingest sn but that doesn't stop people from trying to sue so they can get settlements vs bad press for the company.

Even places that have high suicide rates are not impacted enough to really go hard banning stuff solely for that reason

 

[cowie]

It is genuinely really sad that people don't have access to decent painkillers any longer. This affects the poor who don't have health insurance or the money to do to the doctor to treat their pain in the first place. It's so infuriating and tragic. The restriction of benzodiazepines is terrible as well. I found that klonopin really helped me but I was unable to get my prescription renewed or changed to Xanax. Instead, the dr tried to get me on SSRIs. I legitimately binned the prescription and never went back.

All this makes me wonder what kind of substances are out there that can induce a relatively peaceful death that we just don't know about because no one has died from it yet. There are plenty of poisonous plant substances, some available even as tincture supplements... but most of these cause death by organ failure which is most definitely the opposite of peaceful. I once ordered Pennyroyal tincture because I was terrified that I was pregnant. It can be used to induce an abortion but it is very toxic in high doses and can kill. I can order a few bottles and down it, even catch a buzz from the bit of alcohol contained... but, I would suffer tremendously. I hope for people in the future that some kind of substance like SN will be discovered. My heart hurts for those in pain that will find out about this method too late.

I get that these companies can be warned about the "danger to public health" that the product may pose... but as it currently stands, it's still legal, so how exactly would a company be legitimately sued for selling it? That's the part that really confuses me. The Amazon lawsuit is different as they are being sued because of what the "customers also bought" feature was displaying, not for simply selling the product. Can you really sue a company for someone's death when the product literally says on it that it is toxic to humans if consumed? But yeah, I get what your saying about the publicity and everything and a company not wanting its name in a news article mentioning someone using their product specifically to off themselves.

Yeah, I agree. It's going to be hard to sue someone just for selling it and any argument would probably get thrown out. Also it's clearly used for other intended purposes. I don't think they can make it impossible to sell in the US without a law, and even then, I think they would only say you can't sell it online. I don't think it will get that far unless there really are hundreds and hundreds of people using SN each year to CTB. Maybe even a few thousand.

 

[resolutory]

It's why I ordered SN while I still can, even if I don't CTB for decades

That seems like the smart move. Don't know a lot about SN so need to read up about it, didn't know it lasts that long, but I know it's tough to get in the UK.
Seems like they've already successful restricted it over here sadly. :(

 

[almaranthine]

why is the detergent method (H2S) not popular? its ingredients are easy to purchase.


This is a good idea. As long as you don't break the container's seal (store SN properly), its shelf life is "almost infinite" (according to PPH).

H2S is just straight up dangerous af... a lot of people don't want to risk fatally poisoning others. Also the potential chemical burns. Can't remember the user's name but she described her particularly brutal failed attempt with it here.

 

[Ethereal Knight]

H2S is just straight up dangerous af... a lot of people don't want to risk fatally poisoning others. Also the potential chemical burns. Can't remember the user's name but she described her particularly brutal failed attempt with it here.

I'd guess it's still more peaceful than hanging (except long drop hanging), as it's extremely fast, at 1000 ppm there's immediate death with just one breath.

but it's indeed a danger to others. though putting signs near the scene may reduce the risk of harming innocents.

 

[Little T]

I ordered & received SN from @ online dominant store mid August. Was advertised as a reagent in plastic bottle but came in silver plastic pouch (6 ounces for $70)
I wasn't sure if it was true SN but I reviewed my order history and tried to order again but it is no longer available without business license/account. Now I"m hopful it is what I need.
Being a heavy drinker I plan to use a pill combo - I have enough to kill a horse! AE is still key and was able to order and receive ondansetron from PPH listed site.
I found the PPH more complete than "Stan's" info.
If I fail with pills & alcohol sn will be my backup. I have plenty of sn, ae & meto.
I really think this site has been infiltrated and watched not that there has been an increase in ordering sn.

 

[Greenberg]

Perhaps, it all comes down to money. Amazon has deep pockets. So the plaintiffs are trying to take advantage of the situation and let their lawyers try to extract a big payout for them. Just my two cents.

 

[The Final Solution]

Called it months ago.

 

[almaranthine]

Called it months ago.

Yeah, it was only a matter of time unfortunately. Thank you for trying to warn people.

 

[makethepainstop]

Those damn pro-life idiots AGAIN! God how I positively hate such people.
They have BS solutions for people like us and they will do anything to keep us here in this accursed nook of hell. I tell y'all I hate them!