Howdy Kiddo's,
Its time for another installment of "Random $#!7 from COP2CON." In all seriousness, this is in response to this thread......
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...rsonal-information-you-post-here.51112/page-4
I didn't want to half ass a response but wanted to do a semi articulate thread with at least some information that might be useful because my friend @fadedghost thought enough of me to ask my thoughts on the matter in the above thread. This is based on personal experience as a cop and as having been involuntarily committed twice previously. All this is regarding the US only. Unfortunately in a lot of other countries, not nearly the same standard is needed when it comes to search and seizure.
Also a request.....please be civil if there happen to be responses to this thread, understand I will be saying a lot of unpopular stuff. I'm not doing well and find it harder and harder to talk to people in general so this isn't easy for me anymore. I'm just posting from my prior knowledge, training, and experience regarding the subject matter. I'm not arguing what's fair or how things should be or any of that. Also yes I was a cop and yes I know everyone hates me and I should die. We can uust go ahead and skip that if you dont mind. I just thought maybe this stuff could help some folks.
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Search and Seizure
Let's start with search and seizure. Your fourth amendment (in the US) guarantees your right to be free from UNREASONABLE search or seizure. Various case law decides what's considered unreasonable, not you. There are exceptions such as myself as a prisoner, I have virtually no 4th amendment rights. Also included are people on parole or probation(paper as we degenerate prisoners say), other one off situations, but most importantly for this thread.....involuntary commitments. You are essentially legally "siezed", your freedom suspended, when you are involuntarily committed.
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Basics of how involuntary commitment works
All states have some sort of vehicle to have someone involuntarily committed. I will post links below regarding individual state guidelines but the standard is a 72 hour hold in the majority of states ?:-) :-) -if one is involuntarily committed and can be extended pending whatever a doctor or court says. The mechanism of how one is involuntarily committed is usually either a doctor, mental health professional, or social worker can fill out paperwork and/or a application/petition can be made to a judge and an order issued. Now again, things vary from state to state a little but these are the two main ways it comes about. People can usually be involuntarily committed for 3 reasons. They are a threat to themselves, they are a threat to others, or they have an addiction (also varies by some states). A doctor, mental health professional, or social worker usually need nothing more than their read of the person and situation to sign out a commitment order. A judge usually requires 2 or more witnesses/petitioners which can include law enforcement sometimes, to consider issuing a court order for involuntary commitment.
If you say you are suicidal or homicidal to a doctor, mental health professional, social worker, etc. there's like a 99% chance they are going to fill out the involuntary commitment paperwork. If your already at a hospital then cool, if not then you will more than likely be transported to an ER and put on suicide watch until a mental health facility bed can be found. Sometimes you'll just be taken directly to a facility but again, depends on states and how they run stuff. If your on suicide watch at the hospital, most places I had to go to made the person strip and put on a gown and everything was removed from the room. Usually they also had someone watch them whether is was hospital security, law enforcement, or a medical sitter/watcher.
Most everywhere I researched involuntary commitment paperwork ,both from doctors and judges, is the same as an arrest warrant and you are not free to leave once it is signed. Force by law enforcement can be used to subdue and detain you. You can be handcuffed and restrained. In most cases that never has to happen but that is how serious the paperwork is. I have no idea why or how so many states came to make it that way but that's how it is. Fun fact, I was told that picking someone up for an involuntary commitment was more important that going to get someone on a murder warrant.
In most states law enforcement is tasked with transporting someone to a mental health facility. Most of the time the officer/deputy has nothing to do with what is going on and in a lot of places is just someone who's sole job it is to transport people and prisoners for various reasons. Usually they have no dog in the hunt and cannot help you in any way. I say that because it is literally pointless to argue with them. They cannot change anything and cannot let you go. Of all the involuntary commitments I had to transport to a mental health facility after paperwork was signed, I had a hand in exactly zero of their commitments. I was just the officer/deputy who wasn't busy when the call for transport came in. Before anyone asks, I never once applied for an involuntary commitment on anyone.
Most of you who have been committed know after this point, one stays for the mandatory state observation period(usually 72 hours) and is released. Sometimes doctors at facilities okie doke people and make them believe they have to stay longer which is wrong on so many levels. For various reasons the stay can be legally extended but if one give them no reason to, usually its not.
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How does one fight an involuntary commitment?
That I can't tell you. Legally it should be able to challenged in court but at the same time, you 100% will not get to go to court until after your released from the mandatory observation period. Pretty much no lawyer will do it pro bono and you would really have no way of doing it yourself from the facility. I suppose you could challenge it after the fact to have your firearms rights restored but I honestly see no way one would be able to challenge it within 72 hours unless someone had already contacted and paid an attorney before transport to a facility. Interested if anyone has actually successfully done this as I never heard of it being done before except for lengthy/permanent stays.
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Welfare checks. Basics from the LE side.
"But COP2CON, how do welfare checks come into play?" I'm glad you asked person who is 100% not made up in my head. A welfare check is when someone contacts law enforcement with a concern for safety of another person. Its not always suicide related. I responded to soooooooooooooooooo many and had several elderly people who for various reasons hadn't checked in with family, kids who were home alone, even a doctor once who got someone's tests results back after hours and needed that person to go to the ER immediately for a life threatening condition. The point is, they can come in for a variety of reasons and from a variety of people.
Let's say someone calls in and says they think your suicidal. Details will be gathered and specifics matter. Just someone saying they think someone is suicidal for me was not as credible as someone who also had details like texts, if the person is armed and if so with what, previous history, just extra details. Regardless, law enforcement is dispatched to attempt to make contact to check on the person.
Most of the time when I got to the address, the person willfully opened the door and talked to me. Regardless of the call details, I would let the person know why I was there and ask how the were doing. At some point I would specifically ask if they wanted to hurt themselves or others. If you said no, I would give you all the local, state, and federal resources as well as tell the person to call 9-1-1 and request me specifically if anything changed. Usually I would fist bump them because if they refused, I knew they were secretly lying and would throw them to the ground and handcuff them and take them to a mental hospital regardless. I'm wondering how many people believed that last sentence..... Anyways, I'd usually fist bump them and leave to go do a report stating my conversation and observstions.
If they said yes to wanting to hurt themselves or others, I was obligated to some form of action. Usually most people wanted to talk to someone. I'd be more than happy to listen but I'm not a doctor and probably more fucked up than they were so I recognized I probably wasn't the best person to help them in the long run. I would inform them of that and offer to take them to the hospital because they actually had people there who had degrees in that stuff. MOST people wanted to go. Only a few times out of hundreds did I have someone who was unwilling altogether but who had committed no crime and was under no commitment paperwork. In that case, we got family to come stay with the person and take responsibility for them. We had to document the hell out of it though just in case something happened.
So what happens if you don't answer the door? Well if no one appeared to be home, I would check back several times throughout the night (I worked night shift) and if I never made contact, I would do a report stating as much and refer it to the next shift for a follow up. Now when I went, it was not just simply knocking on the door. I looked in windows, listened to doors, smelled everything i went up to, went around back if possible, looked in vehicle windows, the whole 9 yards. The reason being because if you did not, you could be held civilly liable and even lose your job. I knew 3 people who were fired for not investigating a welfare check properly and the person ended up committing suicide. Family sued and won, can't remember the amount but I think it was under 100k. Just know, that's why cops do that shit. Its not about being an ass and trying to take someone in, its because if they dont do proper investigation and follow the proper steps its their ass. CYA, Cover Your Ass.
You may not think much of yourself or care at all but your family and loved ones will always sue if there is an opportunity. You want to know the reason why LE goes through all the extra effort for this stuff, well that's it. People sue, people get fired. Its not just as simple as "respecting someone's choice" or a cop being a nazi stormtrooper when your facing all that and case law agrees you've got to do something or at least try.
Also, its perfectly legal to look in windows and such for law enforcement. As long as you don't have to do anything to see like opening a door or window or moving something, its legal. As long as any regular person could see the same thing under the same circumstances and you have a lawful reason to be there, its legal. You'd be surprised how far that case law goes so just know that for other reasons as well. If you have drugs in sight, its automatic probably cause to go in, search quickly for people to detain, and back out to wait for a full search warrant. I'm not going to argue the lawfulness of a welfare check. Its considered lawful that's all that matters, don't get mad at me. Get mad at the state and federal courts who made it so.
So back to it, I go and it looks like no ones home after multiple visits. Usually we might contact a family member to let them know but I was usually done pending any further information.
What happens if you don't answer the door but law enforcement finds reason to believe your inside? If I had no warrant, commitment paperwork, or exigent circumstances I would just try several more times like above and document everything. Law enforcement will not just kick down a door for a suicidal person call. It will only happen after an investigation and if there was a reasonable risk for that person. People make up shit all the time. Swatting is a good example so nothing is ever taken as fact from someone who calls it in. I responded to numerous suicidal person welfare checks where it was later determined the caller had lied to get us to try to harass whomever they were calling on. Not everyone will do it but I did prosecute those people.
I never had it happen but if you had commitment orders signed, you were believed to be at home, but you didn't come to the door I was told entry could be made due to exigent circumstances because the person had been deemed a threat to themselves or others and the paperwork acted as a warrant.
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Some terms and phrases to be familiar with
Briefly, what are "exigent circumstances" and why is it important to know what they are? The short/dumbass version is exigent circumstances are things that create an emergency/immediate need and allow law enforcement to perform certain actions for example like forcing entry into a home without a search warrant. I could list many examples but it comes down to the information available and what is observed.
I once responded to a suicidal person welfare check. A young lady stated her roommate had previously been treated at a facility for suicidal thoughts and tendencies, had recently had a bad break up, and had made comments related to suicide after. Said roommate had been drinking heavily that day, locked herself in her room, and was heard to be in the shower for at least 2 hours. The complainant had attempted to yell out numerous times but got no response. The decision was made that based on the facts immediately present, that a suicide may have been attempted or a possible accident may have occurred due to the heavy drinking. A supervisor called it and we kicked the door. She was passed out in the tub but just super drunk and said she was "gucci" when we woke her up. It was all completely legal and considered exigent circumstances based on the immediate facts available. I have also forced entry/entered without a warrant for fires, people screaming out for help, a deceased person I saw through a window, medical calls where people were passed out, and many other reasons. Its all covered under exigent circumstances and all that is needed is the next term I'm going to explain.
Articulation. Articulation. Articulation. Many things that appear not legal or not right by law enforcement are made so by how one articulates the situation in a report. Kicking a door just because you thought something was wrong doesn't hold up like kicking a door because of all these reasons you uncovered and observed due to a diligent investigation and in the interest of ones safety. The above story, if I had just said we made entry because she didn't answer and a supervisor told us to I would have been fired and sued in federal court. The totality of the circumstances and articulation of what I did, what I observed, the details of my investigation is what made it legal.
Finally, qualified immunity. A simple definition from reddit from Google(tablets too old to go to reddit), " Qualified Immunity shields individual officers against civil lawsuits for actions performed within the scope of their duties." It covers far more than you think and sometimes has an unreasonably high bar for someone to prove otherwise. Essentially as long as the officer/deputy was acting in a lawful capacity, made judgment calls based on the facts and circumstances available at that moment, and had no intent to violate constitutional rights, they are covered 99% of the time. Its not a "hindsight" standard but rather did the LEO act resonably (even if it was wrong) based on what was observed and facts available at that moment, not was was learned later. Its something every civilian needs to be familiar with because essentially shit can be done wrong but for the right reasons and nothing happens.
Know this too, if law enforcement forces entry (kicks a door, breaks a window, etc.) and its for a lawful reason then they do not pay to fix the damage, you do. That's why I usually only kicked doors at fires and waited for keys almost every other time. I've actually only kicked 3 doors ever, I was good at finding ways to break in without causing damage if it was warranted.
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Some observations, advice, and recommendations
*Nowadays, some agencies have mental health people who respond to these types of calls with them. I've been told that some have sufficient credentials or the ability to have involuntary commitments signed on scene so just know that. Research your areas LE agencies on Google and social media.
* Some cops will use bullshit excuses/borderline charges such as failure to obey a lawful command, obstruction, disorderly conduct, etc. to be able to arrest you and force you to go to the hospital. Sometimes charges are dropped and sometimes not depending on if the cop is an ass. If you are "in crisis" before getting to jail, then a lot of places can take you for a mental evaluation before hand. All it takes is them telling the doc your a threat to yourself and game over.
*DO NOT go to jail and say your suicidal. I'm sure its more humane elsewhere but the standard here is your stripped naked and put in a suicide smock( turtle suit), put into a small cell like 6'x6' or 8'x8', with nothing but a drain in the middle of the floor that is also your toilet. It suckssssss sssssooooooooooooo badddddddddd.
*What happens when you speak to LE or doctors and such as well as how your acting caries a lot of weight in what happens later. If there is no evidence other than a call for a welfare check and someone does not say or do anything that constitutes a threat to themselves or others, usually the threshold is not met for commitment or follow up and nothing more than a report is done.
*A personal(and unpopular) recommendation, if involuntarily committed, don't fight or cause a scene. I have spoken to doctors at facilities and they absolutely use it against you. Its scary and traumatic most of the time but try to control yourself, cooperate because at that point its happening no matter what, and focus on the 72 hour countdown. Don't give them a reason to hold you longer. I've been inoluntarily committed twice. Once as a juvenile and once as an adult. 2 different mental hospitals that were both considered to be among the worst in my state at the time. The juvenile one had a string of kids dying and getting molested and the adult one was known for beating people and raping them. As bad as they were, the short time I was there was doable once I realized I just had to play their games and jump through their hoops. Both were better than jail and prison as bad as they were.
*Most places, LE reports are not sent anywhere and are only available at that agency. For example, two neighboring police departments don't see each others reports unless one specifically asks the other for certain case reports. But a cop can put an alert in for you into NCIC. Its a lot of paperwork and rare and doesn't really apply to this subject matter. More of an FYI.
*Most LE have no idea what SN is or even what it looks like. I would have honestly thought it was probably some sort of weird hippy salt if I saw it. The most I would have ever done is run 2 small test samples in field kits for meth and fent. If it was negative, have fun with your hippy salt. Probably the majority of cops have no idea about the regulations regarding it so if they make a big deal about it, it means you told someone and they told the cops or you said something directly to the cops yourself.
*No one will believe me but I can guarantee in the US that no Police Departments, Sheriffs Office's, state agencies or anything else is watching you and tracking you here. It takes incredible resources to follow someone online for that and its not reasonable considering suicide itself is not illegal 100% not worth their time. Your not going to get pulled over and the cop ask you about a SaSu post you made.
*Related to above, I 100% guarantee the DEA, ATF, and Homeland/FBI are here watching. Not for individual people for wanting suicide or possessing a personal amount of SN or anything like that. I myself have seen numerous threads on people openly talking about illegally procuring firearms, where and how to get SN and illegal narcotics, and even some threads where people have talked about hurting others or borderline mass casualty incidents. Those are the people the government is interested in. The DEA wants SN and narcotic dealers, the ATF to prevent firearms from being illegally made or obtained, FBI for the somemes borderline terroristic stuff even I've seen people say. I'm including myself in this statement as well but for the vast majority of people on this site, like above 99%, law enforcement doesn't care about you no matter how suicidal you are. No one is tracking you here. Always make sure to protect your information and take all necessary internet precautions as a normal person should but just know, LE is never going to kick in your door for posting here as long as your not some drug king pin or another Timothy McVeigh. Just chill a bit and be aware of what you post openly. Be responsible and cautious.
*Do not take anything in this thread as fact. Use it as a jumping off point for your own research and look into it yourself. EVERY state has a constitution and a criminal codebook that is available for review and can answer a lot of questions.
*Furthermore, I intentionally left off any specific case law. Besides case law from the Supreme Court of the US, every federal circuit court has their own rulings, as well as every state. With the age we live in, you can easily find it all online if you look. Being my OS is from 2010 on this tablet and I have to type with 2 thumbs, and am in literal prison using my limited internet time for this, I'm leaving it up to you all to do your own research. I simply cannot list all 50 states related criminal codes, case law, and federal case law. Most is the same across the board but maybe take an hour or two to do your own research. Case law is actually pretty interesting to read once you get started.
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Closing
What did we learn today peeps? Probably nothing and your probably all dumber from having read this. Seriously though, take what you will from it. Its just one more attempt at me trying to purge possibly helpful information from my head.
I would like to request that if you feel comfortable, use this thread to post involuntary commitment guidelines and laws from your states and other countries if they differ from above.
I know I did not cover everything but this subject could honestly be atleast a couple of full law books and its just not possible to put it all. Its just a crash course. I typed this over many hours so I'm sure there are many mistakes because I suck at life. Feel free to correct, just try to be nice. Also, if you feel any of this information is wrong, I welcome correction. I only ask that you back up any correction with statute, case law (that hasn't been overturned), etc. Don't just say its wrong because you believe it shouldn't be that way or someone told you this or that. This thread is meant for informative purposes so let's make it as complete and accurate as possible.
Finally and related to all this, while involuntary commitment and welfare checks are scary, if you need and want help, its ok to try to get it. Some people benefit from treatment like that, some don't. Don't be scared to seek it out if you want help. Its OK to want and need help and its OK to reach out. I have sat hugging and crying with so many people who wanted to commit suicide but were scared to die and/or scared of treatment. Its your choice if you want to CTB but never be afraid to ask for help if your not ready or having doubts. There is always a risk of things staying the same, getting worse but the risk is equal to maybe things getting better. Sometimes getting help does not negate the want or will to CTB but maybe gives tools and skills to ease the time one has left. Sometimes it takes work to find help but if you feel like you need it, its worth it to search and try. You are worth it, you deserve happiness, no matter how unlikely it can happen, and your not selfish for thinking or wanting any of those things. Leave the opening for good just so you dont let it pass by you unnoticed if it does come along.
I say all the above because I do respect everyone's CTB decision but there has to be a responsible balance for a site like this or else it gets bastardized in the news. I hope everyone finds peace and happiness but just hope it happens in life because I like so many here, even if I am to messed up/scared to talk to anyone right now.
Well, I await the hopefully not mean comments, if any. I have discovered k-dramas and hate myself for it because its such a "un-prison" thing to like so I guess I'll go back to that and being reclusive. Peace out yo.
https://www.bicyclehealth.com/blog/state-by-state-involuntary-commitment-laws
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2026/07/21/forced-hospitalizations/
https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ps.20240345
https://miresource.com/learn/involuntary-treatment-guide/a-guide-to-involuntary-holds-by-state
@fadedghost
Its time for another installment of "Random $#!7 from COP2CON." In all seriousness, this is in response to this thread......
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...rsonal-information-you-post-here.51112/page-4
I didn't want to half ass a response but wanted to do a semi articulate thread with at least some information that might be useful because my friend @fadedghost thought enough of me to ask my thoughts on the matter in the above thread. This is based on personal experience as a cop and as having been involuntarily committed twice previously. All this is regarding the US only. Unfortunately in a lot of other countries, not nearly the same standard is needed when it comes to search and seizure.
Also a request.....please be civil if there happen to be responses to this thread, understand I will be saying a lot of unpopular stuff. I'm not doing well and find it harder and harder to talk to people in general so this isn't easy for me anymore. I'm just posting from my prior knowledge, training, and experience regarding the subject matter. I'm not arguing what's fair or how things should be or any of that. Also yes I was a cop and yes I know everyone hates me and I should die. We can uust go ahead and skip that if you dont mind. I just thought maybe this stuff could help some folks.
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Search and Seizure
Let's start with search and seizure. Your fourth amendment (in the US) guarantees your right to be free from UNREASONABLE search or seizure. Various case law decides what's considered unreasonable, not you. There are exceptions such as myself as a prisoner, I have virtually no 4th amendment rights. Also included are people on parole or probation(paper as we degenerate prisoners say), other one off situations, but most importantly for this thread.....involuntary commitments. You are essentially legally "siezed", your freedom suspended, when you are involuntarily committed.
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Basics of how involuntary commitment works
All states have some sort of vehicle to have someone involuntarily committed. I will post links below regarding individual state guidelines but the standard is a 72 hour hold in the majority of states ?:-) :-) -if one is involuntarily committed and can be extended pending whatever a doctor or court says. The mechanism of how one is involuntarily committed is usually either a doctor, mental health professional, or social worker can fill out paperwork and/or a application/petition can be made to a judge and an order issued. Now again, things vary from state to state a little but these are the two main ways it comes about. People can usually be involuntarily committed for 3 reasons. They are a threat to themselves, they are a threat to others, or they have an addiction (also varies by some states). A doctor, mental health professional, or social worker usually need nothing more than their read of the person and situation to sign out a commitment order. A judge usually requires 2 or more witnesses/petitioners which can include law enforcement sometimes, to consider issuing a court order for involuntary commitment.
If you say you are suicidal or homicidal to a doctor, mental health professional, social worker, etc. there's like a 99% chance they are going to fill out the involuntary commitment paperwork. If your already at a hospital then cool, if not then you will more than likely be transported to an ER and put on suicide watch until a mental health facility bed can be found. Sometimes you'll just be taken directly to a facility but again, depends on states and how they run stuff. If your on suicide watch at the hospital, most places I had to go to made the person strip and put on a gown and everything was removed from the room. Usually they also had someone watch them whether is was hospital security, law enforcement, or a medical sitter/watcher.
Most everywhere I researched involuntary commitment paperwork ,both from doctors and judges, is the same as an arrest warrant and you are not free to leave once it is signed. Force by law enforcement can be used to subdue and detain you. You can be handcuffed and restrained. In most cases that never has to happen but that is how serious the paperwork is. I have no idea why or how so many states came to make it that way but that's how it is. Fun fact, I was told that picking someone up for an involuntary commitment was more important that going to get someone on a murder warrant.
In most states law enforcement is tasked with transporting someone to a mental health facility. Most of the time the officer/deputy has nothing to do with what is going on and in a lot of places is just someone who's sole job it is to transport people and prisoners for various reasons. Usually they have no dog in the hunt and cannot help you in any way. I say that because it is literally pointless to argue with them. They cannot change anything and cannot let you go. Of all the involuntary commitments I had to transport to a mental health facility after paperwork was signed, I had a hand in exactly zero of their commitments. I was just the officer/deputy who wasn't busy when the call for transport came in. Before anyone asks, I never once applied for an involuntary commitment on anyone.
Most of you who have been committed know after this point, one stays for the mandatory state observation period(usually 72 hours) and is released. Sometimes doctors at facilities okie doke people and make them believe they have to stay longer which is wrong on so many levels. For various reasons the stay can be legally extended but if one give them no reason to, usually its not.
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How does one fight an involuntary commitment?
That I can't tell you. Legally it should be able to challenged in court but at the same time, you 100% will not get to go to court until after your released from the mandatory observation period. Pretty much no lawyer will do it pro bono and you would really have no way of doing it yourself from the facility. I suppose you could challenge it after the fact to have your firearms rights restored but I honestly see no way one would be able to challenge it within 72 hours unless someone had already contacted and paid an attorney before transport to a facility. Interested if anyone has actually successfully done this as I never heard of it being done before except for lengthy/permanent stays.
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Welfare checks. Basics from the LE side.
"But COP2CON, how do welfare checks come into play?" I'm glad you asked person who is 100% not made up in my head. A welfare check is when someone contacts law enforcement with a concern for safety of another person. Its not always suicide related. I responded to soooooooooooooooooo many and had several elderly people who for various reasons hadn't checked in with family, kids who were home alone, even a doctor once who got someone's tests results back after hours and needed that person to go to the ER immediately for a life threatening condition. The point is, they can come in for a variety of reasons and from a variety of people.
Let's say someone calls in and says they think your suicidal. Details will be gathered and specifics matter. Just someone saying they think someone is suicidal for me was not as credible as someone who also had details like texts, if the person is armed and if so with what, previous history, just extra details. Regardless, law enforcement is dispatched to attempt to make contact to check on the person.
Most of the time when I got to the address, the person willfully opened the door and talked to me. Regardless of the call details, I would let the person know why I was there and ask how the were doing. At some point I would specifically ask if they wanted to hurt themselves or others. If you said no, I would give you all the local, state, and federal resources as well as tell the person to call 9-1-1 and request me specifically if anything changed. Usually I would fist bump them because if they refused, I knew they were secretly lying and would throw them to the ground and handcuff them and take them to a mental hospital regardless. I'm wondering how many people believed that last sentence..... Anyways, I'd usually fist bump them and leave to go do a report stating my conversation and observstions.
If they said yes to wanting to hurt themselves or others, I was obligated to some form of action. Usually most people wanted to talk to someone. I'd be more than happy to listen but I'm not a doctor and probably more fucked up than they were so I recognized I probably wasn't the best person to help them in the long run. I would inform them of that and offer to take them to the hospital because they actually had people there who had degrees in that stuff. MOST people wanted to go. Only a few times out of hundreds did I have someone who was unwilling altogether but who had committed no crime and was under no commitment paperwork. In that case, we got family to come stay with the person and take responsibility for them. We had to document the hell out of it though just in case something happened.
So what happens if you don't answer the door? Well if no one appeared to be home, I would check back several times throughout the night (I worked night shift) and if I never made contact, I would do a report stating as much and refer it to the next shift for a follow up. Now when I went, it was not just simply knocking on the door. I looked in windows, listened to doors, smelled everything i went up to, went around back if possible, looked in vehicle windows, the whole 9 yards. The reason being because if you did not, you could be held civilly liable and even lose your job. I knew 3 people who were fired for not investigating a welfare check properly and the person ended up committing suicide. Family sued and won, can't remember the amount but I think it was under 100k. Just know, that's why cops do that shit. Its not about being an ass and trying to take someone in, its because if they dont do proper investigation and follow the proper steps its their ass. CYA, Cover Your Ass.
You may not think much of yourself or care at all but your family and loved ones will always sue if there is an opportunity. You want to know the reason why LE goes through all the extra effort for this stuff, well that's it. People sue, people get fired. Its not just as simple as "respecting someone's choice" or a cop being a nazi stormtrooper when your facing all that and case law agrees you've got to do something or at least try.
Also, its perfectly legal to look in windows and such for law enforcement. As long as you don't have to do anything to see like opening a door or window or moving something, its legal. As long as any regular person could see the same thing under the same circumstances and you have a lawful reason to be there, its legal. You'd be surprised how far that case law goes so just know that for other reasons as well. If you have drugs in sight, its automatic probably cause to go in, search quickly for people to detain, and back out to wait for a full search warrant. I'm not going to argue the lawfulness of a welfare check. Its considered lawful that's all that matters, don't get mad at me. Get mad at the state and federal courts who made it so.
So back to it, I go and it looks like no ones home after multiple visits. Usually we might contact a family member to let them know but I was usually done pending any further information.
What happens if you don't answer the door but law enforcement finds reason to believe your inside? If I had no warrant, commitment paperwork, or exigent circumstances I would just try several more times like above and document everything. Law enforcement will not just kick down a door for a suicidal person call. It will only happen after an investigation and if there was a reasonable risk for that person. People make up shit all the time. Swatting is a good example so nothing is ever taken as fact from someone who calls it in. I responded to numerous suicidal person welfare checks where it was later determined the caller had lied to get us to try to harass whomever they were calling on. Not everyone will do it but I did prosecute those people.
I never had it happen but if you had commitment orders signed, you were believed to be at home, but you didn't come to the door I was told entry could be made due to exigent circumstances because the person had been deemed a threat to themselves or others and the paperwork acted as a warrant.
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Some terms and phrases to be familiar with
Briefly, what are "exigent circumstances" and why is it important to know what they are? The short/dumbass version is exigent circumstances are things that create an emergency/immediate need and allow law enforcement to perform certain actions for example like forcing entry into a home without a search warrant. I could list many examples but it comes down to the information available and what is observed.
I once responded to a suicidal person welfare check. A young lady stated her roommate had previously been treated at a facility for suicidal thoughts and tendencies, had recently had a bad break up, and had made comments related to suicide after. Said roommate had been drinking heavily that day, locked herself in her room, and was heard to be in the shower for at least 2 hours. The complainant had attempted to yell out numerous times but got no response. The decision was made that based on the facts immediately present, that a suicide may have been attempted or a possible accident may have occurred due to the heavy drinking. A supervisor called it and we kicked the door. She was passed out in the tub but just super drunk and said she was "gucci" when we woke her up. It was all completely legal and considered exigent circumstances based on the immediate facts available. I have also forced entry/entered without a warrant for fires, people screaming out for help, a deceased person I saw through a window, medical calls where people were passed out, and many other reasons. Its all covered under exigent circumstances and all that is needed is the next term I'm going to explain.
Articulation. Articulation. Articulation. Many things that appear not legal or not right by law enforcement are made so by how one articulates the situation in a report. Kicking a door just because you thought something was wrong doesn't hold up like kicking a door because of all these reasons you uncovered and observed due to a diligent investigation and in the interest of ones safety. The above story, if I had just said we made entry because she didn't answer and a supervisor told us to I would have been fired and sued in federal court. The totality of the circumstances and articulation of what I did, what I observed, the details of my investigation is what made it legal.
Finally, qualified immunity. A simple definition from reddit from Google(tablets too old to go to reddit), " Qualified Immunity shields individual officers against civil lawsuits for actions performed within the scope of their duties." It covers far more than you think and sometimes has an unreasonably high bar for someone to prove otherwise. Essentially as long as the officer/deputy was acting in a lawful capacity, made judgment calls based on the facts and circumstances available at that moment, and had no intent to violate constitutional rights, they are covered 99% of the time. Its not a "hindsight" standard but rather did the LEO act resonably (even if it was wrong) based on what was observed and facts available at that moment, not was was learned later. Its something every civilian needs to be familiar with because essentially shit can be done wrong but for the right reasons and nothing happens.
Know this too, if law enforcement forces entry (kicks a door, breaks a window, etc.) and its for a lawful reason then they do not pay to fix the damage, you do. That's why I usually only kicked doors at fires and waited for keys almost every other time. I've actually only kicked 3 doors ever, I was good at finding ways to break in without causing damage if it was warranted.
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Some observations, advice, and recommendations
*Nowadays, some agencies have mental health people who respond to these types of calls with them. I've been told that some have sufficient credentials or the ability to have involuntary commitments signed on scene so just know that. Research your areas LE agencies on Google and social media.
* Some cops will use bullshit excuses/borderline charges such as failure to obey a lawful command, obstruction, disorderly conduct, etc. to be able to arrest you and force you to go to the hospital. Sometimes charges are dropped and sometimes not depending on if the cop is an ass. If you are "in crisis" before getting to jail, then a lot of places can take you for a mental evaluation before hand. All it takes is them telling the doc your a threat to yourself and game over.
*DO NOT go to jail and say your suicidal. I'm sure its more humane elsewhere but the standard here is your stripped naked and put in a suicide smock( turtle suit), put into a small cell like 6'x6' or 8'x8', with nothing but a drain in the middle of the floor that is also your toilet. It suckssssss sssssooooooooooooo badddddddddd.
*What happens when you speak to LE or doctors and such as well as how your acting caries a lot of weight in what happens later. If there is no evidence other than a call for a welfare check and someone does not say or do anything that constitutes a threat to themselves or others, usually the threshold is not met for commitment or follow up and nothing more than a report is done.
*A personal(and unpopular) recommendation, if involuntarily committed, don't fight or cause a scene. I have spoken to doctors at facilities and they absolutely use it against you. Its scary and traumatic most of the time but try to control yourself, cooperate because at that point its happening no matter what, and focus on the 72 hour countdown. Don't give them a reason to hold you longer. I've been inoluntarily committed twice. Once as a juvenile and once as an adult. 2 different mental hospitals that were both considered to be among the worst in my state at the time. The juvenile one had a string of kids dying and getting molested and the adult one was known for beating people and raping them. As bad as they were, the short time I was there was doable once I realized I just had to play their games and jump through their hoops. Both were better than jail and prison as bad as they were.
*Most places, LE reports are not sent anywhere and are only available at that agency. For example, two neighboring police departments don't see each others reports unless one specifically asks the other for certain case reports. But a cop can put an alert in for you into NCIC. Its a lot of paperwork and rare and doesn't really apply to this subject matter. More of an FYI.
*Most LE have no idea what SN is or even what it looks like. I would have honestly thought it was probably some sort of weird hippy salt if I saw it. The most I would have ever done is run 2 small test samples in field kits for meth and fent. If it was negative, have fun with your hippy salt. Probably the majority of cops have no idea about the regulations regarding it so if they make a big deal about it, it means you told someone and they told the cops or you said something directly to the cops yourself.
*No one will believe me but I can guarantee in the US that no Police Departments, Sheriffs Office's, state agencies or anything else is watching you and tracking you here. It takes incredible resources to follow someone online for that and its not reasonable considering suicide itself is not illegal 100% not worth their time. Your not going to get pulled over and the cop ask you about a SaSu post you made.
*Related to above, I 100% guarantee the DEA, ATF, and Homeland/FBI are here watching. Not for individual people for wanting suicide or possessing a personal amount of SN or anything like that. I myself have seen numerous threads on people openly talking about illegally procuring firearms, where and how to get SN and illegal narcotics, and even some threads where people have talked about hurting others or borderline mass casualty incidents. Those are the people the government is interested in. The DEA wants SN and narcotic dealers, the ATF to prevent firearms from being illegally made or obtained, FBI for the somemes borderline terroristic stuff even I've seen people say. I'm including myself in this statement as well but for the vast majority of people on this site, like above 99%, law enforcement doesn't care about you no matter how suicidal you are. No one is tracking you here. Always make sure to protect your information and take all necessary internet precautions as a normal person should but just know, LE is never going to kick in your door for posting here as long as your not some drug king pin or another Timothy McVeigh. Just chill a bit and be aware of what you post openly. Be responsible and cautious.
*Do not take anything in this thread as fact. Use it as a jumping off point for your own research and look into it yourself. EVERY state has a constitution and a criminal codebook that is available for review and can answer a lot of questions.
*Furthermore, I intentionally left off any specific case law. Besides case law from the Supreme Court of the US, every federal circuit court has their own rulings, as well as every state. With the age we live in, you can easily find it all online if you look. Being my OS is from 2010 on this tablet and I have to type with 2 thumbs, and am in literal prison using my limited internet time for this, I'm leaving it up to you all to do your own research. I simply cannot list all 50 states related criminal codes, case law, and federal case law. Most is the same across the board but maybe take an hour or two to do your own research. Case law is actually pretty interesting to read once you get started.
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Closing
What did we learn today peeps? Probably nothing and your probably all dumber from having read this. Seriously though, take what you will from it. Its just one more attempt at me trying to purge possibly helpful information from my head.
I would like to request that if you feel comfortable, use this thread to post involuntary commitment guidelines and laws from your states and other countries if they differ from above.
I know I did not cover everything but this subject could honestly be atleast a couple of full law books and its just not possible to put it all. Its just a crash course. I typed this over many hours so I'm sure there are many mistakes because I suck at life. Feel free to correct, just try to be nice. Also, if you feel any of this information is wrong, I welcome correction. I only ask that you back up any correction with statute, case law (that hasn't been overturned), etc. Don't just say its wrong because you believe it shouldn't be that way or someone told you this or that. This thread is meant for informative purposes so let's make it as complete and accurate as possible.
Finally and related to all this, while involuntary commitment and welfare checks are scary, if you need and want help, its ok to try to get it. Some people benefit from treatment like that, some don't. Don't be scared to seek it out if you want help. Its OK to want and need help and its OK to reach out. I have sat hugging and crying with so many people who wanted to commit suicide but were scared to die and/or scared of treatment. Its your choice if you want to CTB but never be afraid to ask for help if your not ready or having doubts. There is always a risk of things staying the same, getting worse but the risk is equal to maybe things getting better. Sometimes getting help does not negate the want or will to CTB but maybe gives tools and skills to ease the time one has left. Sometimes it takes work to find help but if you feel like you need it, its worth it to search and try. You are worth it, you deserve happiness, no matter how unlikely it can happen, and your not selfish for thinking or wanting any of those things. Leave the opening for good just so you dont let it pass by you unnoticed if it does come along.
I say all the above because I do respect everyone's CTB decision but there has to be a responsible balance for a site like this or else it gets bastardized in the news. I hope everyone finds peace and happiness but just hope it happens in life because I like so many here, even if I am to messed up/scared to talk to anyone right now.
Well, I await the hopefully not mean comments, if any. I have discovered k-dramas and hate myself for it because its such a "un-prison" thing to like so I guess I'll go back to that and being reclusive. Peace out yo.
https://www.bicyclehealth.com/blog/state-by-state-involuntary-commitment-laws
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2026/07/21/forced-hospitalizations/
https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ps.20240345
https://miresource.com/learn/involuntary-treatment-guide/a-guide-to-involuntary-holds-by-state
@fadedghost
