Email inquiry to Pegasos

[seizmic_purple]

I have already read the threads here about Pegasos, and I became familiar with the fact that it is not as ideal as it can seem. I recently found out about their website and at first, I was completely hyped for like a day (''Oh it will be just a matter of finding money, which I can try to work around for some time, but it IS possible! They don't care about the circumstances, they just respect the decision to die of an adult, this is fantastic!''). It was a good day. Then I felt quite foolish after reading some of the experiences of rejection here--and yes, it does make sense that they are pickier than they describe themselves to be, given the laws, societal taboo, backlash and all. However, it was good to find out that one can apparently get an impression of whether they have any chances whatsoever via email, instead of wasting 1,500 dollars (cca. after the refund from the application submission), which hasn't occurred to me before reading about it here.
This is something I would like to assess because in the case of a flat ''no'' I can plan better rather than hold on to a fruitless, ignorant hope.

So, my question would be for anyone who has written to them, or even applied after the initial email, or those with similar experiences with other organizations, if you could tell me how did you compose this email, or give me some advice how to write it. Did you describe in detail why you want to apply, or were you concise? Did you include any initial ''proof''? Would you consider doing it again at some point, if you received a negative response? Basically any information about the communication with Pegasos would be helpful. I do not think that a particular style or the amount of information can change anything if they, for example, have a hidden policy of ''no young people whatsoever'', but I have the impression it may increase the chances of receiving a more informative response. I would just like to know whether something like Pegasos is a feasible option for me, and--if possible to know at all--under which circumstances it actually would be.
For context, I am 31F diagnosed with a chronic illness that will ultimately lead me to a life of dependency and disability. I have been a caregiver for many years of my life, and I simply cannot go through this again or take anyone down with me. I have other mental health-related issues, but the main reason I am considering to CTB is the chronic illness and the personal choice not to suffer and gradually lose myself.
Thank you for taking the time for reading my post!

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

Bump.
I am also interested in this.
I was ignorant to the fact they took non-terminal cases & under 50's.
I too, had a good day.
Also, do not have the money but would find a way.
I'd love to know the refusal versus acceptance rate.
And how long to hear back about approval etc.
I don't care if the process AFTER being accepted is lengthy & filled with forms & desperately locating cash -
but I am so, so scared of getting hopes up & would like to know the basics before I even dare dream.

 

[seizmic_purple]

Bump.
I am also interested in this.
I was ignorant to the fact they took non-terminal cases & under 50's.
I too, had a good day.
Also, do not have the money but would find a way.
I'd love to know the refusal versus acceptance rate.
And how long to hear back about approval etc.
I don't care if the process AFTER being accepted is lengthy & filled with forms & desperately locating cash -
but I am so, so scared of getting hopes up & would like to know the basics before I even dare dream.

Thanks! Yup, the exact same case here. I wish we could have another day like that, regardless of Pegasos.
Of course, we can only assess all of our questions up to a degree, but I cannot see a better place for this than SaSu.

 

[imOK]

I read about them a lot here and in other places too, but from the impression I got, if you're under 50 you basically don't need to apply. YMMV.

 

[InTheAbyss]

Back in early December I sent them an email asking about their program and if there was any way the could provide any financial assistance as I could not afford the cost of VAD through them. Mentioning my situation. Within a few hours I got a response back:

"Hello,

Thank you for your email and interest in Pegasos.
Could you please provide some further background information about yourself, your age and your medical condition so that we can decide how best to help.
Kind regards,
Damian"

It took my almost a month to put a reply back to them. Being 45m, autism diagnosis, the issues it causes me, that I have the paperwork proving it, being on disability supports, and issues with my own countries euthanasia program. It's been nearly 4 months since then. I haven't heard anything back from 'Damian'. I sent a follow up email about 3 months as a a different email chain in case my reply got buried. It got no response either.

 

[seizmic_purple]

Back in early December I sent them an email asking about their program and if there was any way the could provide any financial assistance as I could not afford the cost of VAD through them. Mentioning my situation. Within a few hours I got a response back:

"Hello,

Thank you for your email and interest in Pegasos.
Could you please provide some further background information about yourself, your age and your medical condition so that we can decide how best to help.
Kind regards,
Damian"

It took my almost a month to put a reply back to them. Being 45m, autism diagnosis, the issues it causes me, that I have the paperwork proving it, being on disability supports, and issues with my own countries euthanasia program. It's been nearly 4 months since then. I haven't heard anything back from 'Damian'. I sent a follow up email about 3 months as a a different email chain in case my reply got buried. It got no response either.

Thanks for sharing this! I'm sorry you didn't get a proper response after an initial and quick reply which did not sound automatic. I guess they are quite busy, and there isn't much to do but wait and hope they respond back, as you've already sent a follow up inquiry. I had a very ''professional'' impression about them from the website, and I keep my fingers crossed you eventually get some feedback. However, I did read in the FAQ about financial assistance: ''At Pegasos we philosophically believe that no one should be prevented from a VAD with us, simply because they lack the financial resources. Pegasos hopes that in the future we will be in a position to provide financial aid to those who would otherwise be unable to avail our service.'' I don't know if this is a more recent change, but it didn't sound so promising to me...

 

[ScarletTanager]

Hi all, just saw this and am replying because I became a Pegasos supporter last month. It is about $100 USD/yr, not too bad. It only requires that you fill out a quick form containing some basic information about yourself. Have your ID handy (drivers license/passport). Pegasos is more likely to say 'yes' if you are 50+. I answered that they are welcome to keep leftover funds in the event of my application and/or death. In addition, I'd be an organ donor. They will give you a form where you may respond about your education, profession, hobbies, and even whether you'd prefer music at your final exit. I really felt the need to do this because it is more reasonable and pleasant than other options. Right now, a friend is suggesting we drink cyanide together in a few years and that just isn't something that would top a professional and safe environment to do this, at least in my opinion. Also, have money set aside in advance. The main cost, plus probably double that for (2) psychiatric assessments, (if like me you are not physically ill or seeing a psychiatrist you'll need their go-ahead) and also funds for one to a few extra nights in a hotel for a family or friend who might accompany you (1 person will likely be required to!), and their fare back home.

 

[seizmic_purple]

Hi all, just saw this and am replying because I became a Pegasos supporter last month. It is about $100 USD/yr, not too bad. It only requires that you fill out a quick form containing some basic information about yourself. Have your ID handy (drivers license/passport). Pegasos is more likely to say 'yes' if you are 50+. I answered that they are welcome to keep leftover funds in the event of my application and/or death. In addition, I'd be an organ donor. They will give you a form where you may respond about your education, profession, hobbies, and even whether you'd prefer music at your final exit. I really felt the need to do this because it is more reasonable and pleasant than other options. Right now, a friend is suggesting we drink cyanide together in a few years and that just isn't something that would top a professional and safe environment to do this, at least in my opinion. Also, have money set aside in advance. The main cost, plus probably double that for (2) psychiatric assessments, (if like me you are not physically ill or seeing a psychiatrist you'll need their go-ahead) and also funds for one to a few extra nights in a hotel for a family or friend who might accompany you (1 person will likely be required to!), and their fare back home.

Thank you for responding! Do you plan on applying soon, or is it a backup plan for you? You're right about the funds, and if one can get around to the sum, the peacefulness and guaranteed outcome may be worth it--at least in my personal view.

It is so cool you're an organ donor! But how does it work with Pegasos' cremation policy?

 

[imOK]

(1 person will likely be required to!)

What do you do if you have no close persons that would do that for you?

 

[seizmic_purple]

What do you do if you have no close persons that would do that for you?

On their website, they state for this exact question: ''For legal reasons, everyone who comes for a VAD at Pegasos must have someone known to them who is able to confirm the patient's identity after VAD (by co-signing a paper together with the MD) for the Swiss authorities. If you do not have a family member or friend willing or able to come with you to Pegasos, we can suggest alternate arrangements after your VAD application has been approved.''
I think that once one's application is accepted, there is more flexibility on their behalf around this issue.

 

[J&L383]

Hi all, just saw this and am replying because I became a Pegasos supporter last month. It is about $100 USD/yr, not too bad. It only requires that you fill out a quick form containing some basic information about yourself. Have your ID handy (drivers license/passport). Pegasos is more likely to say 'yes' if you are 50+. I answered that they are welcome to keep leftover funds in the event of my application and/or death. In addition, I'd be an organ donor. They will give you a form where you may respond about your education, profession, hobbies, and even whether you'd prefer music at your final exit. I really felt the need to do this because it is more reasonable and pleasant than other options. Right now, a friend is suggesting we drink cyanide together in a few years and that just isn't something that would top a professional and safe environment to do this, at least in my opinion. Also, have money set aside in advance. The main cost, plus probably double that for (2) psychiatric assessments, (if like me you are not physically ill or seeing a psychiatrist you'll need their go-ahead) and also funds for one to a few extra nights in a hotel for a family or friend who might accompany you (1 person will likely be required to!), and their fare back home.

Do the Pegasos route rather than the cyanide route. If it's an option, I wouldn't pass it up. I'm also a member of Pegasos, and also [well over] 50. The age thing is arbitrary and unfortunate, but that's kind of how it is - unless you have some serious illness like ALS or quadriplegia.

 

[sevennn]

i wrote about my tinnitus and everything it strips me off. they replied pretty fast. a couple days. i guess they consider tinnitus serious. however dont dream of pegasos unless you have family that supports your decision. they wont accept you otherwise. they immediately ask about this. i dont think there is any way to reason around it

 

[anonymousperson]

So it cost like 12k and is hard to get approved? Ugh just started looking into it today and was so excited.

 

[sevennn]

So it cost like 12k and is hard to get approved? Ugh just started looking into it today and was so excited.

yeah i get how you feel

 

[imOK]

I find it kinda questionable that there's no transparency how the payment half upfront is really used or if it's "used up" completely by assessments, if it is, that are some expensive assessments! Especially considering that it's apparently all online. You basically apply and half of the money for the application is just *gone*, with no clear understanding how it was used or for what. From all I could read online from "rejects", the reasoing they gave was pretty much nil. I mean, I get it, they need a filter. I just feel this shouldn't be the way.

Honestly around all these pro-"right-to-die" organizations there's a certain air of controversy and dubiousness if you just keep looking long enough. I feel none of them are really that great representatives for their cause and them attacking each other doesn't really make it much better. I guess fighting for an extraordinary cause like this needs some very extraordinary people. I have infinitely more respect for the many people that gave up their normal lives for fighting for these rights for others (usually by going to prison) than these organizations that feel kinda profit oriented (even if they claim otherwise) and very concerned with covering their asses. The only real solution to VAD doesn't lie in places like Pegasos, but in countries changing their laws to make it legal, IMO.

 

[Holu]

I'm Bipolar I'm probably never going to get approved even if I tried cuz I assume they would just think I'm maniac and therefore unfit to properly autonomously consent. I actually have the money to go and all, I just don't think they would ever fucking let me

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

The only real solution to VAD doesn't lie in places like Pegasos, but in countries changing their laws to make it legal, IMO.

While I agree with that, time matters.
One is a currently, definitely available solution (for some people), the other is a potentially available in the future solution - there's a lot of variables in that second one.
I live in Australia, home of Philip Nitschke, "the first doctor in the world to administer a legal, voluntary, lethal injection" (just a Wikipedia copy & paste, lazy, sorry) plus we came up with SN as a method to kill first pigs, then humans.
Not a country that is new to this.
Our VAD laws have made huge, huge strides but they still vary from state to state, didn't come quick enough for any of my terminally ill fam & won't change enough for me, either.
I applaud all the people, slogging through the bureaucratic nightmares, making gradual progress, for those that come after me. I doubt I'd have a shot at Pegasos, I know for sure I don't qualify for VAD here.
As for the profiting, for me it's the same as when people get mad at DMC (or whatever they're going by now) for profiting - they're providing a priceless service at a price, pay it or don't pay it. I would still rather people profiting shamelessly, with no moral regard, being outright sociopaths, whatever it takes, than their services not existing. As with all things, the freedom to choose is what's important. I chose DMC, I would rather choose Pegasos or VAD in my home - 1 outta 3 was an option for me personally. It's better than none. I really hope VAD laws keep moving forward, for anyone that wants or needs it.

 

[imOK]

I would still rather people profiting shamelessly, with no moral regard, being outright sociopaths, whatever it takes, than their services not existing. As with all things, the freedom to choose is what's important.

The problem with that is, encouraging such profiteers is a slippery slope. Today it's DMC selling (from what I could gather totally overpiced) SN, tomorrow it's a different guy selling people table salt/even some truly unsafe substance for double what DMC charged and then disappearing because he found a community that's very open to such unsafe practices. Sucks, but people love exploiting other people. I'm kinda suprised it hasn't already happened tbh. I do not know a solution to this either and I do agree that for many (me included) the DIY approach is the only way out, but I wouldn't want to support these "services" either.

In my country if a doctor assists you with suicide, the law is clear - it is murder. In at least three neighbouring countries I know of, it's perfectly legal. In a fourth country you can get a prescription from a doctor for N and fetch it in a pharmacy like any other prescription and then take it peacefully at home, perfectly legal. Yes, people have even gotten it for chronic mental illness in that country.

Before this will ever be a thing in my rule-loving, reality denying, conservative country - hell will freeze over. Just not gonna happen in any frame of time I can imagine.

Still personally, I don't think I would support a place like Pegasos with it's lack of transparency or somebody like DMC. I just don't think it's the right thing to do. As much as I would *love* VAD.

 

[doneforlife]

i wrote about my tinnitus and everything it strips me off. they replied pretty fast. a couple days. i guess they consider tinnitus serious. however dont dream of pegasos unless you have family that supports your decision. they wont accept you otherwise. they immediately ask about this. i dont think there is any way to reason around it

What if you are estranged from your family and have no contacts?

 

[J&L383]

The only real solution to VAD doesn't lie in places like Pegasos, but in countries changing their laws to make it legal, IMO.

Dignitas does state this on their mission statement - that the goal of Dignitas is to not have to exist. And some of their funds are spent in trying to pass legislation in other countries.

i wrote about my tinnitus and everything it strips me off. they replied pretty fast. a couple days. i guess they consider tinnitus serious. however dont dream of pegasos unless you have family that supports your decision. they wont accept you otherwise. they immediately ask about this. i dont think there is any way to reason around it

As far as family notification, I would say each situation is unique and should be communicated with them directly. it's rare, if ever, that they need any kind of "approval" but they prefer to have family members not surprised after the fact. If you have parents that are still living it's more of an issue than if they're both deceased. And if you don't have any children or brothers or sisters then I hardly think it's going to be a problem.

 

[doneforlife]

Hi all, just saw this and am replying because I became a Pegasos supporter last month. It is about $100 USD/yr, not too bad. It only requires that you fill out a quick form containing some basic information about yourself. Have your ID handy (drivers license/passport). Pegasos is more likely to say 'yes' if you are 50+. I answered that they are welcome to keep leftover funds in the event of my application and/or death. In addition, I'd be an organ donor. They will give you a form where you may respond about your education, profession, hobbies, and even whether you'd prefer music at your final exit. I really felt the need to do this because it is more reasonable and pleasant than other options. Right now, a friend is suggesting we drink cyanide together in a few years and that just isn't something that would top a professional and safe environment to do this, at least in my opinion. Also, have money set aside in advance. The main cost, plus probably double that for (2) psychiatric assessments, (if like me you are not physically ill or seeing a psychiatrist you'll need their go-ahead) and also funds for one to a few extra nights in a hotel for a family or friend who might accompany you (1 person will likely be required to!), and their fare back home.

I think organ donation will depend a lot on what disease you are suffering from and also the logistics of how quickly the organ can be transferred to the hospital. Does Pegasos take care of these logistics? Or the applicant has to arrange all this by self..

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

The problem with that is, encouraging such profiteers is a slippery slope. Today it's DMC selling (from what I could gather totally overpiced) SN, tomorrow it's a different guy selling people table salt/even some truly unsafe substance for double what DMC charged and then disappearing because he found a community that's very open to such unsafe practices. Sucks, but people love exploiting other people. I'm kinda suprised it hasn't already happened tbh. I do not know a solution to this either and I do agree that for many (me included) the DIY approach is the only way out, but I wouldn't want to support these "services" either.

Still personally, I don't think I would support a place like Pegasos with it's lack of transparency or somebody like DMC. I just don't think it's the right thing to do. As much as I would *love* VAD.

I agree on the slippery slope, but I think that goes the other way, too.
Start taking away these services & where do you end up???
What is left for us?
For me, it's kinda like I believe in free speech, it's important to me. That doesn't mean my brain doesn't implode, screaming "shut the fuck up, asshole, just shut up, have respect, stop lying, fuck off" etc, etc.
On this forum, every day.
To be clear, defs not aimed at you.
My belief in free speech is bigger than my frustration with arrogance, ignorance, fear-mongering etc. If I was suddenly the arbiter of which posts were published here & which ones denied, I couldn't do it, the unknowns are too murky.
The same for DMC - it's not overpriced for 2 reasons, one is that supply, demand, market forces etc determine price. If no one's buying, the price would go down. And 2, what they're selling isn't just the damn salt, they're providing a service, they're discreet (lie), available pretty much everywhere to everyone. That can't be said of the competition, because I'd defs have products from supplier 2 & supplier 3 if I could, but I hit endless roadblocks or wasn't confident of product etc.
I guess that actually makes a third point - the reliability of the product - I've heard of no fails & am quite shocked by the fact that most people here don't seem to test (except for the really big, really permanent, final test).
Do I think the guy from DMC is a "good" person??
I don't know.
When I think of my experience, I was shown empathy & kindness & generosity & hope & all the good feels, at a time of really bad feels.
Do I know for sure he's not selling to minors, murderers, those not with adequate capacity etc??
No, I don't.
I don't know if he's a sociopath.
I know I was shown kindness when I needed it, supplied a product when I needed it, provided discretion & reassurance when I needed it.
Does he end every night, saying "Mwah-ha-ha", thrilled with the endlessly renewable source of suicidal people & their cash? I don't know & I don't much care. The alternative of them not existing is worse to me.
And circled back to freedom of choice...
For me personally, I had one method available to me, & one seller of that method, without that method & that seller, my personal autonomy would've diminished even further & I'm just grateful that didn't happen.
I got to make one choice instead of no choice.

 

[sevennn]

What if you are estranged from your family and have no contacts?

i dont know. but they are not there to help any of us. trust me. they are really worried about getting in trouble imo and they only want the most perfect candidates. thats it. i didnt see any willingness to communicate anything. in fact i had to bother them multiple times for clarification. their idea of saying no is simply not responding. i dont like that organisation