Autism and constantly feeling like a fool

[Gild-Holm-’Ur]

As a shy + introverted person, I feel like people that a lot of people have their own barriers that prevent them from connecting.

A child of a friend is somewhere on the spectrum (I don't know that much about it). I truly like them (even keep one of their drawings on my bedroom wall). And I truly like spending time with them, but I do feel anxious when we hang out.

 

[autistichaven]

Having autism simply makes us inferior to others. It's natural selection at its cruelest.

Okay, while I agree with most things on this thread about how hard life is as an autistic, I don't agree with this. I don't think autism is inferior, the difficulties from autism come from the differences not being accommodated by society. The neurodiverse movement talks about this, and you can read about the social model of disability. There are numerous strengths like authenticity, detail focus, being able to make connections and see patterns, etc. The problem is the neurotypical majority, just like being an ethnic minority living in a majority white culture.

That doesn't mean we will get the accommodations we need in life, the likelihood is that you won't. But that isn't for being inferior, it's because the world isn't designed for us and understanding of autism is still not very accepting in society.

 

[Hystearical]

Okay, while I agree with most things on this thread about how hard life is as an autistic, I don't agree with this. I don't think autism is inferior, the difficulties from autism come from the differences not being accommodated by society. The neurodiverse movement talks about this, and you can read about the social model of disability. There are numerous strengths like authenticity, detail focus, being able to make connections and see patterns, etc. The problem is the neurotypical majority, just like being an ethnic minority living in a majority white culture.

That doesn't mean we will get the accommodations we need in life, the likelihood is that you won't. But that isn't for being inferior, it's because the world isn't designed for us and understanding of autism is still not very accepting in society.

I don't think that is entirely true. Some of autism's difficulties are a function of being a minority condition in society but some are intrinsic to it such that it isn't really comparable to being an ethnic minority minority or anything else that causes issues bot because of inherent functionality issues but purely because of external social factors.

Autism is a disorder. Disorders are not good. Disorders aren't worth propagating if that can be helped. That is my standpoint.

Said as someone who's been wanting and trying to die my entire life mainly because of autism.

 

[autistichaven]

I don't think that is entirely true. Some of autism's difficulties are a function of being a minority condition in society but some are intrinsic to it such that it isn't really comparable to being an ethnic minority minority or anything else that causes issues bot because of inherent functionality issues but purely because of external social factors.

Autism is a disorder. Disorders are not good. Disorders aren't worth propagating if that can be helped. That is my standpoint.

Said as someone who's been wanting and trying to die my entire life mainly because of autism.

"Disorders are not good" is quite a black and white thing to say, considering we have made up the concept of what a disorder is, especially in psychiatry. Disorders are defined by what society believes is harmful and what seems to impair functioning - homosexuality was defined as a disorder in the DSM until recently as it was seen as unnatural. One could argue being gay does have some limitations, like not being able to have biological children, but it is now commonly accepted and is part of normal human variation, and I strongly identity with this take.

I believe there is some grey area with disabilities where there are some difficulties that are inherent, but when it's something like autism where there are also strengths, it's not so easy to say that. Losing a leg doesn't have much positive you could say about it, but autism does. What is a disorder is partly a societally constructed concept.

I respect you can have your own belief and it comes from a great deal of pain. For me, as someone who previously worked in psychiatry as a doctor, and has since then done a lot of unlearning of the overly pathologizing frameworks psychiatry and western society uses, this is the view I have come to. Just because you may feel depressed about your condition and see it as all bad, it does not mean you can speak for everyone with autism. There are people with autism who strongly advocate for greater acceptance and accommodation of autism rather than pathologizing. Those people would be offended at the idea they should "not be propagated", basically bred out.

I know myself that if society was not the way it was, I could have a good life with autism. But there is a lot there to unpack too, like dismantling neoliberal capitalism, the total idealisation of work and productivity as the value of human life, Western constructs of "normal" (for example, indigenous populations often treat autistic or trans people well, accept them fully, do not expect them to do the same as others) etc. Indigenous transgender people may not have gender surgeries, but they have radical acceptance of transgender identities as valid, and everyone will accept the person's gender identity as the truth. Thus they do not experience gender dysphoria like trans people in a western society do, which suggests gender dysphoria comes from stigma and lack of acceptance. Just an example of a "disorder" that with radical acceptance is not really a huge hinderance to a person's life.

Anyway, we don't live in that wonderful world, but it isn't a universal truth that things have to be how they are for autistic people now, and autism does not inherently have to be pathologised.

 

[mysticall]

thats the hardest part with interpersonal relationships that I dont seem to grasp. things I would never even dare thinking about, stuff I view as so vile that just the act of conjuring up an image in my brain would make me recoil, other people do with no hesitation or guilt. its like were not even the same species

Yes! Holy shit yes. This is EXACTLY how I feel

When I'm too tired to mask and I weird people out, makes me feel gross, like a freak.

Yup. I can tell that they can tell something is off and the knowledge of them knowing makes me (probably) act even weirder than I already am

"Disorders are not good" is quite a black and white thing to say, considering we have made up the concept of what a disorder is, especially in psychiatry. Disorders are defined by what society believes is harmful and what seems to impair functioning - homosexuality was defined as a disorder in the DSM until recently as it was seen as unnatural. One could argue being gay does have some limitations, like not being able to have biological children, but it is now commonly accepted and is part of normal human variation, and I strongly identity with this take.

I believe there is some grey area with disabilities where there are some difficulties that are inherent, but when it's something like autism where there are also strengths, it's not so easy to say that. Losing a leg doesn't have much positive you could say about it, but autism does. What is a disorder is partly a societally constructed concept.

I respect you can have your own belief and it comes from a great deal of pain. For me, as someone who previously worked in psychiatry as a doctor, and has since then done a lot of unlearning of the overly pathologizing frameworks psychiatry and western society uses, this is the view I have come to. Just because you may feel depressed about your condition and see it as all bad, it does not mean you can speak for everyone with autism. There are people with autism who strongly advocate for greater acceptance and accommodation of autism rather than pathologizing. Those people would be offended at the idea they should "not be propagated", basically bred out.

I know myself that if society was not the way it was, I could have a good life with autism. But there is a lot there to unpack too, like dismantling neoliberal capitalism, the total idealisation of work and productivity as the value of human life, Western constructs of "normal" (for example, indigenous populations often treat autistic or trans people well, accept them fully, do not expect them to do the same as others) etc. Indigenous transgender people may not have gender surgeries, but they have radical acceptance of transgender identities as valid, and everyone will accept the person's gender identity as the truth. Thus they do not experience gender dysphoria like trans people in a western society do, which suggests gender dysphoria comes from stigma and lack of acceptance. Just an example of a "disorder" that with radical acceptance is not really a huge hinderance to a person's life.

Anyway, we don't live in that wonderful world, but it isn't a universal truth that things have to be how they are for autistic people now, and autism does not inherently have to be pathologised.

This is such a wonderful summation. I love when others can fill in the blanks with things I've thought but haven't quite come up with the right way of putting it.

Okay, while I agree with most things on this thread about how hard life is as an autistic, I don't agree with this. I don't think autism is inferior, the difficulties from autism come from the differences not being accommodated by society. The neurodiverse movement talks about this, and you can read about the social model of disability. There are numerous strengths like authenticity, detail focus, being able to make connections and see patterns, etc. The problem is the neurotypical majority, just like being an ethnic minority living in a majority white culture.

That doesn't mean we will get the accommodations we need in life, the likelihood is that you won't. But that isn't for being inferior, it's because the world isn't designed for us and understanding of autism is still not very accepting in society.

Yeah I also don't think being autistic makes me inherently inferior in the slightest. I have some strengths, and man, are they strengths. The world simply isn't designed for us. Capitalism doesn't work for us. Hold on. For me. I don't want to over-generalize. For me, this ability to see patterns, to make connections, to truly pierce the veil so to say is largely the reason for the existential depression, which from what I understand isn't chemically fixed. Taking some SSRI or any drug for that matter won't make me not see the bullshit lol.

I don't think that is entirely true. Some of autism's difficulties are a function of being a minority condition in society but some are intrinsic to it such that it isn't really comparable to being an ethnic minority minority or anything else that causes issues bot because of inherent functionality issues but purely because of external social factors.

Autism is a disorder. Disorders are not good. Disorders aren't worth propagating if that can be helped. That is my standpoint.

Said as someone who's been wanting and trying to die my entire life mainly because of autism.

This is kind of borderline eugenics here lol.

 

[Passenger4224]

That doesn't mean we will get the accommodations we need in life, the likelihood is that you won't. But that isn't for being inferior, it's because the world isn't designed for us and understanding of autism is still not very accepting in society.

The world & society do not owe us anything. The weak are left to suffer and rot, same goes with all other species. That's life.

I'm not going to debate about the topic, because everyone has the right to think positively of their disabilities. I simply cannot spend my life lying to myself like that.

 

[thelostautistic]

I feel the same way. I don't think I've ever been anyone's best friend. I'd do so much for others but I often get forgotten by people.

 

[autistichaven]

The world & society do not owe us anything. The weak are left to suffer and rot, same goes with all other species. That's life.

I'm not going to debate about the topic, because everyone has the right to think positively of their disabilities. I simply cannot spend my life lying to myself like that.

I don't think it's lying to yourself to believe that the world SHOULD be like that. No one is saying it will be like that. Again, I think a lot comes back to western paradigms and modern day living influencing our thinking. I would say it's actually quite natural for the weak to be taken care of in social animals who live in groups, of which humans are one of the most socially driven group. And again, indigenous societies look after their old, disabled and sick. The much more cruel world we live in now is the unnatural one, we've grown it unnaturally large for what our brains are evolved for. People do tend to care about their own "tribe", so this is probably part of why the modern world can be uncaring - it's much easier for people to not care about social issues and people who they see as "not one of their tribe". And modern capitalistic ideas of what is valued in a human, like productivity. Not everyone agrees with these values however.

I'm a very pessimistic person about my life compared to others to the point I will not discuss my inner demons with them, but I think the pessimism about this goes beyond just pessimistic to actually factually untrue. You don't need to justify your own pain by generalising the entire world to it. Of course it's natural if you've only had negative experiences, but it's still possible to see the bigger picture outside of yourself.

I am prepared to die as a last resort if all of the many discriminated groups I belong to end up meaning I cannot work or have income in a way that does not torture me, like work has been for me so far. But I would love to have the chance to find out how it is to live if we did not have to work. Alas most of us do financially. I'm also prepared to die because I want to keep that choice for myself. If I get in a horrific accident, if I end up needing rest home/ 24/7 care I want to have a way out of that, because I cannot trust anyone else to accommodate my special needs apart from me. It is not incompatible to think "I do intrinsically have value as a person" and "I would choose to die if my life was unbearable enough, even though it is a failure of society that it should have to come to that"

To any autistics, I'd discourage making decisions about ctb if you think so negatively that it's completely coloring your worldview towards not seeing any complexity. For me the decision requires balancing all those factors at a given time. But you need to be able to see them accurately. The world has been overly simplified by some people, and politically it is becoming like that too. The danger of this kind of cruel "the world is just shit" mindset is yes it is a justification for being cruel to yourself, but it's also easily a justification for being cruel to others in whatever time you live before you ctb.

I am passionate about this as I've spent a long time analysing these factors, I'm the type who will research any decision I make to the most extreme degree, even like buying a microwave, so yes this includes analysing society, suicide and life. Anyway, you can choose to take it or leave it. But I'll leave it here anyway.