'Pro choice = Pro suicide ' ?

[rosynov2]

I hear people say these site is 'pro choice' but that's the same as saying 'pro suicide' because it's advocating for the same thing.
Example in case of abortion:
Pro-choice and Pro-abortion - are advocating for the same thing. Advocating for abortion to be an option.

Unlike: Prolife- advocating agaisnt abortion.

So like when people say 'no we are not pro-suicide , we are pro-choice', its the exact same thing advocated for really(the choice of suicide, or more clearly, allowing suicide to be a viable option)

Like it would make more sense if it was 'no we are not pro-suicide, we are anti-suicide', meaning advocating agaisnt it.

Do you agree with me?

Anyways the idea of chronic ill people ending their suffering makes sense of course, they are physical suffering. The Idea of mentally ill people ending their suffering, also makes sense because the mind is biologically effected when they are ill.
I heard somewhere majority of people who suicide are neurodivergent and or autistic. That also makes sense, they're mind is biologically wired different.

But for some reason a lot of people justify having these issues, as a reasoning to suicide like indefinetely. What about the people that have these issues and choose to live? Do you think they don't exist, or its illogical? Is it really that evil to say to a chronic ill person to try to continue to seek help, even if all else doesn't work? Try to find other solutions, like meds dont work , therapy doesn't work, so suicide is really the only solution? Or what else would you propose then.

This site imo is built to not be pro-suicide, but the users are just majority pro-suicide. Just looking at what majority of threads are about in the suicide discussion(in depth methods,helping others suicide, etc)
thats why im inferring this. Can we just be honest?

The tone is always , I Hope you find peace (aka end suffering through their method, probably) and not I Hope you find help to have peace in your life (aka more on the hopeful tone of things could get better).
But it makes sense why many are pro-suicide. It's because other social media sites are heavily restricting on these topics, anything pro suicide is just banned. So we all come here. Otherwise we would probably be on reddit saying some hopeful anti-suicide things , because thats only what they accept.
So it makes sense. But I just sense like people are just not being fully truthful when they say they are pro-choice ,it makes it sound then in cases of living despite having chronic illness, or mental illness, is also advocated for, but I really dont actually see much of that. So just say pro-suicide right.

Ill be open and say, I have chronic illness(the surgery to fix it has too many risks), neurodivergent, had severe depression at 12(diagnosed by family doctor but not officially tested), I also have not been diagnosed for autism, but im on the waitlist to be tested, honestly I would also self-diagnose that. So yeah I just wanted to share my perspective here. Hope this doesn't offend anyone Im just wondering.

 

[NeverHis]

If you're anti-choice (there's no such thing as pro life), then why are you here?
IMO there is no such thing as "pro life". Either people have a choice of their own, or they're imprisoned. All socalled pro life propaganda is in reality forced life.

We are not necessarily pro suicide. We want everyone to find happiness.
But we also know that in this world, the only way to find happiness for many is to leave it.

Would you force someone who was kidnapped and brutally tortured to keep living, even though they'll never be found and freed?

Unless you personally can give a million dollar guarantee that their life will improve within a certain timeframe, you have no business telling others what they do with their life.

 

[name2come]

I don't think "pro-suicide" does a good job describing the common point of view. People here are generally looking for resources for their own suicide. It's very different to advocate for it for others. And some people actually do this for a variety of reasons, both in good faith and bad. I don't think that's ever going to fairly describe the worldview of someone who ones people to have the freedom to make that choice themselves.

One thing I think we can look at at various Medical Aid in Dying regimes. Disability activists raise very good points about the dangers of where MAiD is an option that institutions start promoting it, especially when it is structured as only available for people whose lives have been deemed unworthy of continuing. I think those are very valid complaints about vulnerable persons being pushed towards suicide from systems that don't value their lives.

Where I differ is that I think part of the solution should be opening up MAiD options to anyone who desires them. I get their concerns about suicide being pushed on people, but I think we can also respective the autonomy of those people who may desire that option. And I think it's dangerous to pick and choose when it's okay for a person to end their own life because we decide their life isn't worthwhile, but I'd want to empower anyone to make that choice for themselves. This goes beyond making my own choice, too. Whatever I end up doing, my experience with suicidal ideation has led me towards a great deal of empathy for people struggling with this choice and I feel acutely that we are failing these people.

I feel sad whenever anyone chooses to end their life. That makes visiting this community a struggle many days. But that sadness is informed not by disappointment with their choice but empathy for the despair that leads to it. I don't want anyone to feel like that. So, no, I am not pro-suicide, but also think we can work to destigmatize it. I think we can respect people who make such a choice. Right now, I expect I will make that choice in the next couple of months. I think we can do all of that without advocating for suicide. Indeed, I tend to think we must. This has to be something a person decides for themselves, even if as a result of unfair circumstances. I don't think "pro-suicide" characterizes this perspective at all.

 

[hurts2b]

But for some reason a lot of people justify having these issues, as a reasoning to suicide like indefinetely. What about the people that have these issues and choose to live? Do you think they don't exist, or its illogical? Is it really that evil to say to a chronic ill person to try to continue to seek help, even if all else doesn't work? Try to find other solutions, like meds dont work , therapy doesn't work, so suicide is really the only solution? Or what else would you propose then

The most important thing is that it's their choice. Nobody else can make the decision or live life for you. It's up to every individual to weigh their own options and do what they feel is best. Fourm members aren't doctors, we don't prescribe anything.

 

[angelhopes]

I just assume that people who actually commit CTB tried everything in order to live but to no avail. Which is why I tell them "I hope you find peace" and not "I hope you find help" Since if someone is pretty set out to go and leave this earth, a random person online is probably not gonna stop them.

Besides there are some instances where people would try to CTB and ended up not doing because theyre having doubt. I don't see people commenting to continue and do it even if they have a doubt. Surprisingly its quite the opposite since most of the comments are people saying that its probably not their time if they are having doubts even if its tiny.

 

[Forveleth]

Pro-suicide = Suicide is the first option. Advocate for people to kill themselves with no/little consideration for alternatives.
Pro-choice = Suicide is an option, but not necessarily the first one. Advocate for people to be able to end their lives on their terms, whatever that may look like for them.
Pro-life = Suicide is never an option. Advocate for people to be kept alive at all costs.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I definitely think there is a difference between pro- suicide or- promortalist if you like and, pro- choice people. Pro- suicide or promortalist people presumably think that death is the best option for every living creature on this planet- no matter it's circumstances. I'd say that pro- choice people listen to the person's own perspective and, go from there.

In fact- I'd say- within the replies to posts where the person is on the fence about living or dying- more people will encourage them to fully explore their life options first. The majority of people (I would say) here- see suicide as a very serious decision to be made after all other options have at least been considered- if not explored.

That said- who goes looking for a suicide forum if they are living their best life? It seems inevitable to me that the majority of people here are likely to be so unhappy, they are seriously contemplating ending their life. So- it doesn't seem surprising to me- that the majority of posts here would be negative.

But then, why would the forum have a 'recovery' section if it wasn't pro- choice? Surely- simply by having that other space, we're acknowledging that some people will choose to live, rather than die and the forum provides a space for them to support one another doing that.

I tend to avoid goodbye threads now- for fear of it looking like encouraging a suicide. But, even then: 'I hope you find peace' can also mean- we hope they find peace in life. If they make the decision not to suicide- we hope they make peace with that decision.

I'd say, the majority of people do want the best for one another here. For them to know a relief from whatever pains them. If they can find that relief in life, then great. I think you have to consider it from that person's viewpoint though. If they themselves have suffered for years- decades even- as many members here have. If the treatments they have gone through failed- why would they believe they would work for other people?

So, I think many of us bring our own cynicism over just how possible 'recovery' is. With that in mind, I'm actually more surprised the forum is as life encouraging as it is- on occassion. I think that's because we likely err on the side of caution (most of us.) That a person should try to explore all life options before choosing death.