Discussion "If you truly wanted to CTB, you'd be able to do it."

[Passenger4224]

This post does not intend to encourage CTB. It is primarily discussing the statement shown on the title.

This is a phrase that comes up sometimes, for example if someone can't overcome their survival instinct or don't feel like they have the energy to create a plan.

Do you agree with the statement shown on the title of this post? Why or why not?

 

[EDDIESTERS]

no, its actually quite hard to ctb (imo) and even trying to just shows how much you "want" to do it. my father has said this to me before, it doesnt make any sense. "if you wanted to have a million dollars youd do it." "if you wanted to live a happy life youd live one." everything is just a gamble, it could happen or it couldn't. sure you can "try harder" but theres always a chance it wont work.

 

[un.exist]

I do understand that statement, to an extent. As in, if we truly wanted to commit suicide, we'd try relentlessly at it. Ofcourse there are obstacles like survival instict(which is an instinct), accessibility of methods, privacy, etc.

Still, what I believe, is that most of us here want to die(or the pain to stop), not necessarily commit suicide. Those two things are different. The latter is just a means for the first.
I'm sure most won't mind getting hit by a car or getting in some fresk accident then dying. CTB is just seemingly the only path to that. So it makes sense if someone won't really try relentlessly at CTBing because it's not what they necessarily want. I don't know if I'm making sense, I'm splitting hairs here.

 

[Topaz111]

I do understand that statement, to an extent. As in, if we truly wanted to commit suicide, we'd try relentlessly at it. Ofcourse there are obstacles like survival instict(which is an instinct), accessibility of methods, privacy, etc.

Still, what I believe, is that most of us here want to die(or the pain to stop), not necessarily commit suicide. Those two things are different. The latter is just a means for the first.
I'm sure most won't mind getting hit by a car or getting in some fresk accident then dying. CTB is just seemingly the only path to that. So it makes sense if someone won't really try relentlessly at CTBing because it's not what they necessarily want. I don't know if I'm making sense, I'm splitting hairs here.

I get what you mean.
I don't keep trying because I'd rather wait until I have better means rather than keep getting myself sent over to a psych ward or risking more disabilities due to failed attempts.
Also, I would very much rather get shot by someone rather than fight my own survival instinct and gamble with the risks of brain damage from a failed hanging.

 

[Hollowman]

Anyone who says that is a clueless idiot.

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

If only it were that simple. But imo it's best not to talk about wanting to CTB with people who aren't also suicidal for a variety of reasons, one being because they just won't get it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's a peculiar statement really- because it almost seems to be daring the person to prove the strength of their feelings and actually do it!

I suppose they are questioning the strength of the feeling when saying that. Basically a: 'Things can't be that bad. If they were- nothing would stand in your way.'

I bet ironically- that they are the same people who then complain after the act- how selfish it was. How cowardly even. Why the person didn't consider the impact on their loved ones. Stupid- because they already answered that accusation- their pain had probably grown too great for them to carry on putting other's needs above their own.

As for whether it's true. I'm not sure. Maybe in some cases. Some people do seem to feel the need to be at their very wits end before they suicide. Some seem to be hell bent on self destruction so that suicide truly does seem their only way out.

It's such a cruel statement to make though. It just feels like belittling a person's despair to me.

It doesn't take into account the complexity of life or risk assesment either. To compare it to something else- the lottery say. Most people when asked- would likely say- they'd love to win the lottery. So- why don't they put all of their savings into next week's draw? That would increase their chance of winning enormously. Because it would be such a high risk! There's still a very high chance they would lose everything.

When a person is debating suicide- they are contemplating the possibility of surviving an attempt with life changing injuries. Who in their right mind would not worry about that? We wouldn't say to the person not willing to risk all their savings in the lottery- well- that must mean you don't really want to win. Surely- we'd simply rate them with good common sense!

I think it perhaps reveals what people want to think about suicidal people though. That they are so overwhelmed with grief and distress- that they aren't in fact thinking logically. That they won't consider all the things that should cause them pause for concern because they maybe should be crazy and impulsive and just do it. Maybe it's that they don't want to believe that a person thinking logically can suicide.

 

[Intoxicated]

Do you agree with the statement shown on the title of this post? Why or why not?

Assuming that the implied person has available CTB methods along with sufficient level of intelligence for using them and "truly" in the statement means "very much" or "to a high degree", then mostly yes (maybe with exception of cases when the person has severe anxiety disorders or other mental conditions that can significantly alter the behavior in such a situation). Highly motivated people manage to commit suicide even with relatively bad means, which cause severe discomfort in the process and are not especially reliable.

This is a phrase that comes up sometimes, for example if someone can't overcome their survival instinct

I don't believe in survival instinct. It's an overly simplified and misleading concept like the flat Earth theory or geocentrism. There are basically 3 actual psychological reasons that can deter someone from carrying out an act of CTB: 1) unsureness about death being the right goal to achieve, 2) intolerance to immediate discomfort during the process of CTB, and 3) fear of failure leading to troubles (e.g., associated with possible non-fatal injuries).

or don't feel like they have the energy to create a plan.

The lack of "energy" is a sign of the lack of motivation. Motivation to do something in order to achieve a goal depends on the desirability of the goal. Greater desirability typically produces greater motivation.

 

[FuneralCry]

It's insane to me how someone would say that in this horrific, prison world where humans have made it into a crime to cease existing peacefully, the fact that dying painlessly is made illegal by humans who want others to be tortured for as long as possible is criminal to me. It truly is such terrible extreme cruelty how we exist in this anti-suicide world where the suffering and torture of existing is seen as to force and prolong no matter what. I always suffer so unbearably from how I cannot just have the option to peacefully cease existing and never suffer in this terrible, dreadful existence I just always saw as a mistake ever again, all that anti-suicide does is cause so much more torture and suffering, forcing humans to suffer in this torturous existence will always be a crime.

 

[itsgone2]

No, don't agree. It's very difficult to accomplish. There are many things in life we want to do but can't accomplish.
Besides it's not that I want to commit suicide by any of these barbaric methods. It's just what's available. What I want is to die. A peaceful method is preferred but not available

 

[Passenger4224]

If only it were that simple. But imo it's best not to talk about wanting to CTB with people who aren't also suicidal for a variety of reasons, one being because they just won't get it.

I should clarify, I wasn't particularly thinking of it as talking to someone who isn't also suicidal ... I was thinking about the phrase itself with zero context

Assuming that the implied person has available CTB methods along with sufficient level of intelligence for using them and "truly" in the statement means "very much" or "to a high degree", then mostly yes (maybe with exception of cases when the person has severe anxiety disorders or other mental conditions that can significantly alter the behavior in such a situation). Highly motivated people manage to commit suicide even with relatively bad means, which cause severe discomfort in the process and are not especially reliable.


I don't believe in survival instinct. It's an overly simplified and misleading concept like the flat Earth theory or geocentrism. There are basically 3 actual psychological reasons that can deter someone from carrying out an act of CTB: 1) unsureness about death being the right goal to achieve, 2) intolerance to immediate discomfort during the process of CTB, and 3) fear of failure leading to troubles (e.g., associated with possible non-fatal injuries).

The lack of "energy" is a sign of the lack of motivation. Motivation to do something in order to achieve a goal depends on the desirability of the goal. Greater desirability typically produces greater motivation.

I like your take, even if it seems to be in the minority. I lean this direction, but I'm still near 50/50!

 

[hurts2b]

Doesn't really make that much sense. Mechanically it's difficult. Practically it requires a lot of planning. It's a huge, massive thing. Like moving countries.

You wouldn't tell someone applying for a passport and saving up money for a trip to "just do it". These things take time and consideration.

More than that. It's possible to wanna live and die at the same. For some, the desire comes and goes.

"If you wanted to, you would" is something people say because they don't understand. Or they just want a reason to end the conversation.

 

[meowpuppy]

i very much disagree. finding good suicide methods is just hard a lot of the time..

 

[Alexandra_]

I disagree with that statement. I'm speaking from my own experience. I know with 100% certainty that I want to die—meaning, to be killed or to take my own life. But I have a serious issue with the instinct for self-preservation. Will I ever be able to commit suicide? I don't know; it's a 50/50 chance. But I could definitely go through with assisted suicide; dying via Nembutal is a privilege.

I agree with what was written above. People who claim things like that are just complete morons. It's almost like saying, "If you wanted to grow wings, you would have grown them."

 

[brokennsad]

Yea that's like my stupid ass brother, after I've lost everything important to me..he says...."just be happy" "you're alive" wtf?
Like I can replace my home,belongings,dog,mary ann who was my love of a lifetime 30yrs, my crippled hand, my career, mom, father, sister, step father
Fuck you brother is what i want to say

 

[zoidberg]

The number of attempts that fail point to the inherent difficulty in attempting to die while facing the instinctual drive to live and avoid pain and suffering.

 

[Intoxicated]

The number of attempts that fail point to the inherent difficulty in attempting to die while facing the instinctual drive to live

I think that instinctual drive to live has as little sense as instinctual drive to smoke cigarettes or instinctual drive to write posts on this forum. We're inclined to do things that reward us with some pleasure, and life itself is valuable as long as it grants us opportunities to experience pleasures. Those pleasures are what motivates us to take actions supporting life. The quality of life depends on the balance between pleasures and discomfort. When discomfort outweighs pleasures for a long period, the quality of life is deemed low and its value becomes questionable if no perspectives of improvement can be seen. The addiction to habitual things that give us pleasure may still present when the price of living in the form of discomfort is perceived as too high.

and avoid pain and suffering.

Ironically, the drive to avoid pain and suffering is what motivates people to commit suicide as well. If there was no drive to avoid discomfort, there would be no need in CTB in most cases.

 

[bl33ding_heart]

I don't at all agree with that. During the moments in my life where I wanted death above all I wasn't able to die. I would have if given the chance, but reliable methods are extremely limited for most. Not everyone is willing to to use uncertain methods with the risk of failing and possibly disabling themself. Having that happen to you would only make death be even more out of reach.

 

[Cepheuss]

No this statement pisses me off so so so much
Dont you think ive tried