How would incels be perceived today if instead of going down the path of hate, they were kind and solely focused on ctb?

[artificialpasta]

The generally accepted definition of "incels" is people who want to have sex, but cannot.

I've addressed this in previous posts in this thread. Words can mean different things and people have even used it as an insult to generally mean "loser", but it is more productive to refer to the conventional definition, and the conventional definition is that an incel holds hostile attitudes against women. Just Google the word incel and this becomes obvious.

 

[InevitableDeath]

aren't there reddit forums that are better for these gender war threads?

 

[ToANewWorld]

That's just willfully ignorant but if you're willing to change your view I can direct you to many resources about the reality of sex work in the west too.

I appreaciate the invitation but I dont think you have a clue what you are talking about

 

[Crematoryy]

How would incels be percieved if instead of going down the path of hate they focused on going to Tijuana and Thailand?

Edit : All joking aside. Experiencing no love in life is a horrible thing and I can sympathize with any incel that feels this is worth CBTing over. But realistically, you aren't owed love. There is no law that says you have to experience teenage love, or a first kiss, or what is like to have a girlfriend. As wonderful as it could be for you this experience can only be given consentually.

The most you can do is work on yourself so you become love-able or find something else that brings you joy. If you are really lonely visit an escort.

What can I say. Is a cold world out there and some of your ancestors had to deal with way worse life circumstances.

I'll give a quick and direct answer. When a human being is deprived of the natural right to exercise their sexuality, anger is the only possible response. It's like being wronged by natural selection, social beauty standards, economic class, and genetic inheritance. Hatred is the easiest path for weak people, among whom I also include myself.

 

[martyrdom]

aren't there reddit forums that are better for these gender war threads?

As long as there are incels and misogynistic viewpoints posted on the forum there's gonna be dissent.

I appreaciate the invitation but I dont think you have a clue what you are talking about

If that makes you feel better. But I'm not saying listen to me, I'm saying listen to the resources, studies, biographies, memoirs, documentaries, etc. Seems you'd rather be willfully blind to those.

I'll give a quick and direct answer. When a human being is deprived of the natural right to exercise their sexuality, anger is the only possible response. It's like being wronged by natural selection, social beauty standards, economic class, and genetic inheritance. Hatred is the easiest path for weak people, among whom I also include myself.

Exercising your sexuality is not a right, you people are angry because of your entitlement.

 

[ToANewWorld]

I'll give a quick and direct answer. When a human being is deprived of the natural right to exercise their sexuality, anger is the only possible response. It's like being wronged by natural selection, social beauty standards, economic class, and genetic inheritance. Hatred is the easiest path for weak people, among whom I also include myself.

I mostly agree except I would disagree anger or even hatred are invalid emotions. I think all emotions are valid (we are born with the whole range of them after all). Adulthood is figuring out how to process our emotions constructively, that's the hard part most times.

 

[Alan James]

I've addressed this in previous posts in this thread. Words can mean different things and people have even used it as an insult to generally mean "loser", but it is more productive to refer to the conventional definition, and the conventional definition is that an incel holds hostile attitudes against women. Just Google the word incel and this becomes obvious.

I mean, there are a lot of incels who hate themselves and their bad genetics. At the same time, they do not hate women. They often have envy of women (beautiful women).

Yes, there are a lot of incels who hate women (among other things they hate).

There are many incels who hate and envy handsome men (Chads). They see how very handsome and tall men have access to beautiful women easily and in large quantities (especially on dating sites and apps, they see this clearly). Many incels hate men too.

There are incels who generally hate this entire physical world, physical bodies, and consider this world a place worse than hell.

That is, incels can hate themselves, women, men, the whole world and much more. And not just women. Many incels hate themselves (considering them genetically inferior); self-hatred, first of all, is the main trait of incels.

There are those who love porn more, who love going to sex workers and escort.

Many of them have never tried and are not going to try to have sex and relationships. There are those who voluntarily do not want to have sex, relationships, families, childrens, etc.

Not just those who hate women. Some incels, on the contrary, would like to have a beautiful female body like that of top models or their favorite pornstars.

 

[martyrdom]

Not just those who hate women. Some incels, on the contrary, would like to have a beautiful female body like that of top models or their favorite pornstars.

Which is misogyny, because it's dehumanizing and objectifying to women. The fact that incels hate everything doesn't make their misogyny any less serious and their self-hatred does not make them victims.

 

[PI3.14]

I'm 28, virgin, also short, don't know if I'm ugly that for others to decide ig but I'm no Henry Cavill, shy, anxious, introverted(mostly), and well...a member on a forum that discuss suicide lol, although not cus of this. Saying this so you just know that I'm not like some super good looking dude who is lecturing you on something I have no idea about.

First, I want to say that body image is a struggle, like, I struggle with it a lot, but more for cus I want to be like other men than me hating it cus women prefer talker guys or something.

And this isn't true for men only btw, if you spend enough time here you will see that many women are also struggling with body image, with loneliness, with feeling attractive...etc.

Now, unless you feel that you're "entitled" to have a woman in your life then you're not an incel, at least from what I understand and the opinion I currently hold.

Also, just know this, there are as many lonely women as there are lonely men, and finding love is difficult for the majority of people, including many good looking people, so good looks alone won't guarantee things.

Will having had great looks helped you a ton? Absolutely, saying otherwise is a lie, physical attraction is important for many people. However, other things matter too.

If for example your life isn't in order, then that one thing to fix. Introverted? That alone can kill your chances even if you're good looking, so some social interaction is crucial and absolutely necessary. Developing confidence is important, but confidence doesn't come out of nowhere, it needs to be supported by something, perhaps career success, or being skilled in different hobbies and basically having "interesting" stuff going for you. If you're struggling mentally then addressing that is also necessary.

This is not only true for you just cus you happen to be a guy, but also true for women too. A sustainable loving relationship requires both parties to invest in themselves before trying to build a relationship, unless you want a relationship with no love and one that is full of drama.

If you're young then don't despair, loneliness is painful ofc, but try not to focus solely on that if you can help improve other areas of life.

 

[yourmmomisabbitch]

i challenge the assumption that incels all go down a "path of hate".. there have been notable misogynistic attacks which I am absolutely not here to defend, but hating incels because of this would be making the same mistake as calling all black people murderers.

incel just means involuntarily celibate, the term was in fact coined by a woman, a feminist, to refer to herself. whether anyone chooses to identify with this label is up to them, and what you choose to think of them because of it is up to you, but it does not inherently mean they hate women or have any particular ideology.

i think of myself as an incel despite having many female friends and a girlfriend who i love and respect very much simply because I relate to many of their struggles and feel rejected by society. I implore you not to fall prey to the media blindly demonizing groups of people for clicks. there are many hateful incels, there are many empathetic and loving incels, there are many who will go whatever direction the wind blows them. we are all here on this forum because we are suffering one way or another, I hope you will choose to look past preconceived notions and jst love and support each other because that's what we need

we are all human

 

[Dot]

Dd n.e1 thnk t/ ask OP t/ clarfy thr meanng/undrstandng of tht wrd

Jst thnk = wld hve helpd fostr a mre satsfying dscussn rathr thn gttng lst in semantcs & fallng in2 gendr wrs & shoutng @ ech-othr agn

 

[artificialpasta]

Dd n.e1 thnk t/ ask OP t/ clarfy thr meanng/undrstandng of tht wrd

Jst thnk = wld hve helpd fostr a mre satsfying dscussn rathr thn gttng lst in semantcs & fallng in2 gendr wrs & shoutng @ ech-othr agn

OP could have stepped in any time to clarify what they meant

 

[Dot]

OP could have stepped in any time to clarify what they meant

V tru

@Siamese Believe - n.e thghts

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

When a human being is deprived of the natural right to exercise their sexuality, anger is the only possible response.

You have a natural right to exercise humans sexuality, yes. But not with another body. That is up to the consent of said body's owner.

I am going assume that you likely have two hands, though. Those can be very useful for expressing human sexuality and filling in the gaps until you can better your personality enough for women to feel safe fucking you.

 

[ChildrensITV]

It's something I've been curious about. I by definition would be considered one. I'm ugly, short, virgin, etc. But I do not hate or wish harm on anyone.

Logically I feel the best solution to bad genetics is suicide. I cannot change my body. I can't make myself tall, handsome, good looking, smart, etc. So I'll just kill myself, simple as is.

I had no say in the body or life that I got. I could not consent to looking like this, I don't consider this body to define who I am because it's unfair.

No amount of suffering you could cause others would ever make them physically attracted to you, it won't make people like, desire, or love you. It's pointless violence and hate.

Dude. Don't even bring up intimate, man-centric topics here unless you're talking about trans-men. Things that men go through are seen as our fault, that we're entitled, misogynistic, patriarchal, cuz of our laziness, etc. This site is based about suicide, but normie AF in terms of the plight of ugly/short men. I think I read one of the replies below said we should lose weight to become goodlooking. As if losing weight will grow a man from 5ft6 to 6ft2 and will make his round, weak jaw look like Henry Cavill's.

Face it. Even on this site, people think that if you can't get a girlfriend, it's because of some universal karma, and women can detect your bad personality. Meanwhile, women date psychopaths and get murdered by them. But you, wanting to show love to a woman is a sign of you being entitled. Women with 1000 matches on Tinder are telling you you're entitled cuz you long for one match. Just lol, man.

As for an answer to your question, if ugly/short men didn't have that notorious reputation or label, then we would just be ignored. Just like nobody gives a fuck about homeless men or disabled veterans. It saddens me that nutjob-killers and misogynists are what people think of when they think of men who can't get love.

 

[Dejected 55]

Yeah fair enough but I don't see anything special about the word incel. The community can reorganize around a different identity.

And this is exactly how easy it is to marginalize a group... Co-opt their name and turn it into something bad and force them to rebrand... lather, rinse, repeat. This is a timeless method of destroying a movement before it gets off the ground.

Yes, language evolves... but it shouldn't always evolve. Words get redefined because people can't spell them and eventually a misspelling becomes an accepted version. That's a benign result... but when a small percentage of bad people is able to co-opt the name of your group by being vocal and bad... that just shouldn't be allowed.

I say again... should Christians and Catholics and Muslims all change the names of their religions because of the bad actors associated with them in recent years?

The Black Lives Matter movement was co-opted as well... and that particular movement seems to have all but died out now. There are people trying to redefine feminists as man-haters because of a handful of people who are man-haters and call themselves feminists... but so far the real feminists have managed to hang onto their name.

In this thread that is "what if" I think this is all valid discussion. The whole point of the exercise is what could have been done differently... and I say the key thing would have been not letting the bad apples take over the label of the larger group of benign people who wanted to call attention to their problem.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Meanwhile, women date psychopaths and get murdered by them.

Maybe if you didn't imply it was women's own fault for getting murdered, they'd be able to see past your apparent "ugliness."

Also, nice bit of transphobia there. This website ignores the plights of trans men constantly, so leave us out of this.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Meanwhile, women date psychopaths and get murdered by them.

Women are groomed by psychopaths and get murdered by them you mean?

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Women are groomed by psychopaths and get murdered by them you mean?

Arguably, women (and AFABs, but somehow I doubt that user will like semantics including trans people) are groomed by men who use the idea of psychopathy and mental illness as a crutch to hide their real affliction—the social contagion of buying into the patriarchy and using it to their advantage.

Honestly, sometimes the women aren't even groomed by the men themselves, but by society.

People always get mad at women for getting with obviously abusive men, but as someone with an abusive father, you date what you know. You are taught that your safety comes second to everything else, so a man could start the first date by straight up groping you, and some women who grew up being demeaned will just think it's "the price to pay."


Slight tangent: I do not ignore the existence of cis men who struggle to find love because of their perceived "bad looks." That is a consequence of a mixture of society "making" things ugly so capitalism can sell you "good looks," and the patriarchy itself (and also of ablelism and racism surpising)—it is not a consequence of women themselves.

Men can and should vent and look for support about this! But there is a difference between venting and complaining/placing blame.

What I find funny, though, is that the men placing blame are usually the ones who either put down women themselves (by saying things like "She wouldn't date me because I was ugly, but she's a fat cow so I don't see the issue!") or to only want a supermodel-level woman.

I know so many damn women who are perceived as ugly by society, struggle with similar things to those men, and would give anything to date a safe man, ugly or not. Often times it's not women being turned off by your ugly/face body, but by your ugly personality. Deluding yourself won't fix your issues, and it also won't help the many men who you are enabling to hate women instead of seek a non-blame-placing community for their struggles.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Arguably, women (and AFABs, but somehow I doubt that user will like semantics including trans people) are groomed by men who use the idea of psychopathy and mental illness as a crutch to hide their real affliction—the social contagion of buying into the patriarchy and using it to their advantage.

Honestly, sometimes the women aren't even groomed by the men themselves, but by society.

People always get mad at women for getting with obviously abusive men, but as someone with an abusive father, you date what you know. You are taught that your safety comes second to everything else, so a man could start the first date by straight up groping you, and some women who grew up being demeaned will just think it's "the price to pay."


Slight tangent: I do not ignore the existence of cis men who struggle to find love because of their perceived "bad looks." That is a consequence of a mixture of society "making" things ugly so capitalism can sell you "good looks," and the patriarchy itself (and also of ablelism and racism surpising)—it is not a consequence of women themselves.

Men can and should vent and look for support about this! But there is a difference between venting and complaining/placing blame.

What I find funny, though, is that the men placing blame are usually the ones who either put down women themselves (by saying things like "She wouldn't date me because I was ugly, but she's a fat cow so I don't see the issue!") or to only want a supermodel-level woman.

I know so many damn women who are perceived as ugly by society, struggle with similar things to those men, and would give anything to date a safe man, ugly or not. Often times it's not women being turned off by your ugly/face body, but by your ugly personality. Deluding yourself won't fix your issues, and it also won't help the many men who you are enabling to hate women instead of seek a non-blame-placing community for their struggles.

I typed like 600 words or smth but I ended up just settling on the comment that you replied to, I didn't want to burn gas on someone who doesn't need the heat.

I completely agree with you btw. I even talked about the first kiss of many girls (as in 10-12 years old) who ended up being chocked aka strangled. (since you said that many women are getting groped in the first date), etc, etc.

 

[girlsboysthems]

involuntary celibate is actually voluntary celibacy. you hinder yourself and yourself only. most people dont care about height or how "pretty" a person is, touch some grass and close the laptop, join the real world.

suicide is to me always the answer.