Has anyone tried IFS therapy (Internal Family Systems) for suicidal thoughts and feelings?

[StarryEyed]

As per the title, has anyone tried IFS therapy (Internal Family Systems) to help with your suicidal thoughts and feelings? If you have - or even if you haven't - any thoughts about this approach?

 

[hughmun9]

Never tried it with a therapist but it's been one of the more useful models for me. Although I do feel like it gets a little complicated after a while, to consider all your different parts and name them and communicate with them. It takes a lot of mental bandwidth to do that every day

 

[StarryEyed]

Never tried it with a therapist but it's been one of the more useful models for me. Although I do feel like it gets a little complicated after a while, to consider all your different parts and name them and communicate with them. It takes a lot of mental bandwidth to do that every day

Hi @hughmun9

I'm thinking of doing it on my own too. Yes, it seems like a TON of work, but then I've tried everything else and I'm actually sinking deeper. So I figure a lot of work with a chance to survive, or keep banging my head against the wall with the tools already in my toolbelt, or commit suicide. So I'm leaning towards hard work (as long as I'm not feeling suicidal, of course).

I've read the first couple of chapters of 'No Bad Parts' by Richard Schwartz, the guy who invented this therapy. He's got exercises in the book. It's the audiobook on Audible, which is nice for the exercises. Is that what you're doing too?

This is the book:

No Bad Parts

Discover an empowering new way of understanding your mu…

www.goodreads.com

 

[hughmun9]

Hi @hughmun9

I'm thinking of doing it on my own too. Yes, it seems like a TON of work, but then I've tried everything else and I'm actually sinking deeper. So I figure a lot of work with a chance to survive, or keep banging my head against the wall with the tools already in my toolbelt, or commit suicide. So I'm leaning towards hard work (as long as I'm not feeling suicidal, of course).

I've read the first couple of chapters of 'No Bad Parts' by Richard Schwartz, the guy who invented this therapy. He's got exercises in the book. It's the audiobook on Audible, which is nice for the exercises. Is that what you're doing too?

This is the book:

No Bad Parts

Discover an empowering new way of understanding your mu…

www.goodreads.com

Hi @StarryEyed

I haven't read that book, I was mostly going off information from https://integralguide.com/ , but I really should I have heard great things about it and it is straight from the source.

I have noticed improvements when I was actively trying. I have even had weeks that I genuinely enjoyed. I sometimes felt a true embodied connection to people around me which almost felt foreign. The only downside to me is it felt like I was constantly having to manage this internal dialogue all of the time. After a while I found it hard to focus on external things since I'd always get distracted by inner feelings. And after doing all of this work for 2 years after one psychotic episode and a few months of isolation, I feel as if I'm back where I started. Like all the progress got erased.

 

[StarryEyed]

Hi @StarryEyed

I haven't read that book, I was mostly going off information from https://integralguide.com/ , but I really should I have heard great things about it and it is straight from the source.

I have noticed improvements when I was actively trying. I have even had weeks that I genuinely enjoyed. I sometimes felt a true embodied connection to people around me which almost felt foreign. The only downside to me is it felt like I was constantly having to manage this internal dialogue all of the time. After a while I found it hard to focus on external things since I'd always get distracted by inner feelings. And after doing all of this work for 2 years after one psychotic episode and a few months of isolation, I feel as if I'm back where I started. Like all the progress got erased.

Hi @hughmun9

That makes a lot of sense to me when you speak about the difficulty in managing internal dialogue with all the different parts, because I've done parts work with another type of therapy where the parts are called 'ego states'. So I did that work, and integrated many different parts. It was so very confusing to do because of what you say, but eventually I got the hang of it. But the tools I learned simply aren't working for the suicide part.

I too have had debilitating psychotic episodes. I'm so sorry you have too. Like you, I'm feeling now like I'm back to where I started because I'm in such a crisis with this suicide part and I'm so unravelled. I was talking to one of my besties about that today, saying that in the therapy model of the onion layers, I always thought it meant it got easier in going through the layers because the layers are smaller and because you're on familiar ground. But in fact I'm finding it harder because I'm getting closer to the core of my problems, and because I'm getting so fucking tired going through the onion layers. She made a brilliant analogy saying it's like in a video game, that each level gets more difficult, as you get to the final level. I find this analogy very helpful because it frames what I'm going through. Perhaps you find it helpful too?

 

[I Me & Myself]

I found that it makes it a lot easier to adress these thoughts. I have found a way to kind of "pinpoint" them to a part of myself.

I tried to figure out how to appease me, or that part of me, and weigh it with my other needs and wants.

Being able to go "Hey, you specifically, I know you want it all to be quiet and stop but you're really just making it worse right now"

Kind of like when you call for help, someone is less likely to come if you just scream help. But if you go up to a specific person and yell "you in the red jacket, help!" you're much more likely to get help.

Let's assume I were to calm this part "Gary".

Gary is me, I am Gary. Yet Gary is more prevalent in certain circumstances, and I assign my suicidal thougts partly to him. But I also know Gary gets stressed really easily and is self loathing. So I kinda try to help Gary! In doing so, I am helping myself and recognising my own needs more easily.

 

[hughmun9]

Hi @hughmun9

That makes a lot of sense to me when you speak about the difficulty in managing internal dialogue with all the different parts, because I've done parts work with another type of therapy where the parts are called 'ego states'. So I did that work, and integrated many different parts. It was so very confusing to do because of what you say, but eventually I got the hang of it. But the tools I learned simply aren't working for the suicide part.

I too have had debilitating psychotic episodes. I'm so sorry you have too. Like you, I'm feeling now like I'm back to where I started because I'm in such a crisis with this suicide part and I'm so unravelled. I was talking to one of my besties about that today, saying that in the therapy model of the onion layers, I always thought it meant it got easier in going through the layers because the layers are smaller and because you're on familiar ground. But in fact I'm finding it harder because I'm getting closer to the core of my problems, and because I'm getting so fucking tired going through the onion layers. She made a brilliant analogy saying it's like in a video game, that each level gets more difficult, as you get to the final level. I find this analogy very helpful because it frames what I'm going through. Perhaps you find it helpful too?

Psychosis is definitely a challenging experience to go through... I'm sorry you went through that as well. Did you do the parts work with a therapist?

That is a helpful analogy, assuming it's true. I would've also thought that therapy would get easier with time since you're getting increasingly more familliar with yourself as you go along, but perhaps it's true that the closer you get to the core of your problems, the more difficult it becomes.

I think what I struggle with the most is the impermanence of it all. The feeling that the work I'm doing isn't fundamentally chipping away at the trauma like healing a wound, but rather temporarily slapping on a plaster that could get washed away at any time. Maybe I'm doing the wrong kind of work, or perhaps I'm struggling since I'm on my own and I should find a good therapist. That I can't afford unfortunately...

 

[StarryEyed]

Psychosis is definitely a challenging experience to go through... I'm sorry you went through that as well. Did you do the parts work with a therapist?

That is a helpful analogy, assuming it's true. I would've also thought that therapy would get easier with time since you're getting increasingly more familliar with yourself as you go along, but perhaps it's true that the closer you get to the core of your problems, the more difficult it becomes.

I think what I struggle with the most is the impermanence of it all. The feeling that the work I'm doing isn't fundamentally chipping away at the trauma like healing a wound, but rather temporarily slapping on a plaster that could get washed away at any time. Maybe I'm doing the wrong kind of work, or perhaps I'm struggling since I'm on my own and I should find a good therapist. That I can't afford unfortunately...

I'm sorry you too feel you're not making progress.

The parts work I did before was without a therapist, other than asking questions to my treating psychiatrists. I too can't afford therapists. I have a session here and there but they're way too expensive. I read books too as that's cheap, but not too much or you can fall down the rabbit hole even more. Some ideas are so frikkin convoluted and weird!

When doing the parts work, I was in and out of psychosis, as I was under an enormous amount of stress. So the focus in treatment was keeping me out of psychosis, and the parts work was like side therapy on my own. It was quite the journey of creative writing and drawing and dress-up and reframing. I was everything from loopy to half loopy, but made it through stronger at the other end.

You know, I was thinking more about the video game analogy. It's the same with so many things in life, that it gets harder the more we learn, such as going through school, and learning a job, and developing relationships, and making a nice home to name but a few. I mean, yes, in same ways it gets easier as we learn more skills, but it gets more difficult too as we face new challenges. But the feeling of, "oh fuck what do I do now, I'm lost and falling apart" can always happen along a learning path when presented with a new challenge. What do you think of that possibility? I think that might be what is happening to me now. And you?

I found that it makes it a lot easier to adress these thoughts. I have found a way to kind of "pinpoint" them to a part of myself.

I tried to figure out how to appease me, or that part of me, and weigh it with my other needs and wants.

Being able to go "Hey, you specifically, I know you want it all to be quiet and stop but you're really just making it worse right now"

Kind of like when you call for help, someone is less likely to come if you just scream help. But if you go up to a specific person and yell "you in the red jacket, help!" you're much more likely to get help.

Let's assume I were to calm this part "Gary".

Gary is me, I am Gary. Yet Gary is more prevalent in certain circumstances, and I assign my suicidal thougts partly to him. But I also know Gary gets stressed really easily and is self loathing. So I kinda try to help Gary! In doing so, I am helping myself and recognising my own needs more easily.

Yes, that's exactly what IFS parts work is about - they are all separate parts but part of the whole. Well said! I named my parts in the parts work I did and it was really helpful because it made organising the parts easier. It's like if you have a bunch of files, you want to organise them by naming them.

 

[StarsAbove]

I have not been able to get the hang of it just yet. I am wondering how others feel about interacting with parts that stay pretty silent when you try to work with them

 

[StarryEyed]

I have not been able to get the hang of it just yet. I am wondering how others feel about interacting with parts that stay pretty silent when you try to work with them

"Others" as in people other than me? Or "others" as in people other than you? (I don't want to speak out of turn.)

 

[I Me & Myself]

I have not been able to get the hang of it just yet. I am wondering how others feel about interacting with parts that stay pretty silent when you try to work with them

Oof, tough ask.

I tackled this Problem from the other way around, actually. When one part of me (example Gary, at it again) was difficult to communicate with, I'd wait for Gary to show up on his own.

Instead of forcing him out, I forced myself in.

So when Gary *was* there and very much present, I'd try and get in a state where another more easily available part is also there. That makes it easier.

This kind of boils down to "snapping out of it"

For me personally it required a lot of help and comfort items.

Let's say your main comfort it orange juice. You feel more like a part that can openly communicate when drinking orange juice.

But Gary obviously wouldn't wanna be doing better. So I had the help of someone else offering me orange juice, causing me to ease up and kinda end up between Gary and the reasonable part.

Reading this back it sounds really abstract. But only because of self imposed borders. Gary doesn't really exist. It's a gradient. You just gotta get close to actually feeling the way you assign the part to, and then cone back from it in a healthy manner.

But alas, not everyone is me. This works for me. Any maybe *only* for me. But maybe this gives you a better idea

 

[StarsAbove]

"Others" as in people other than me? Or "others" as in people other than you? (I don't want to speak out of turn.)

I meant anyone besides me

Oof, tough ask.

I tackled this Problem from the other way around, actually. When one part of me (example Gary, at it again) was difficult to communicate with, I'd wait for Gary to show up on his own.

Instead of forcing him out, I forced myself in.

So when Gary *was* there and very much present, I'd try and get in a state where another more easily available part is also there. That makes it easier.

This kind of boils down to "snapping out of it"

For me personally it required a lot of help and comfort items.

Let's say your main comfort it orange juice. You feel more like a part that can openly communicate when drinking orange juice.

But Gary obviously wouldn't wanna be doing better. So I had the help of someone else offering me orange juice, causing me to ease up and kinda end up between Gary and the reasonable part.

Reading this back it sounds really abstract. But only because of self imposed borders. Gary doesn't really exist. It's a gradient. You just gotta get close to actually feeling the way you assign the part to, and then cone back from it in a healthy manner.

But alas, not everyone is me. This works for me. Any maybe *only* for me. But maybe this gives you a better idea

I love that your part's name is Gary. Hmm, that is interesting that you used another, more agreeable part to coax him out. I dont really have any parts that show up easily yet. Maybe with time

 

[StarryEyed]

Oof, tough ask.

I tackled this Problem from the other way around, actually. When one part of me (example Gary, at it again) was difficult to communicate with, I'd wait for Gary to show up on his own.

Instead of forcing him out, I forced myself in.

So when Gary *was* there and very much present, I'd try and get in a state where another more easily available part is also there. That makes it easier.

This kind of boils down to "snapping out of it"

For me personally it required a lot of help and comfort items.

Let's say your main comfort it orange juice. You feel more like a part that can openly communicate when drinking orange juice.

But Gary obviously wouldn't wanna be doing better. So I had the help of someone else offering me orange juice, causing me to ease up and kinda end up between Gary and the reasonable part.

Reading this back it sounds really abstract. But only because of self imposed borders. Gary doesn't really exist. It's a gradient. You just gotta get close to actually feeling the way you assign the part to, and then cone back from it in a healthy manner.

But alas, not everyone is me. This works for me. Any maybe *only* for me. But maybe this gives you a better idea

Very interesting! Is this a method from the book?

I meant anyone besides me

I love that your part's name is Gary. Hmm, that is interesting that you used another, more agreeable part to coax him out. I dont really have any parts that show up easily yet. Maybe with time

I've only done the first three chapters of the book, and the instructions when a part doesn't speak is to remove the part that's blocking it and put that blocking part in a room. You've already read the whole book. Aren't there other methods discussed in the book to get a part to talk?

 

[StarsAbove]

Very interesting! Is this a method from the book?



I've only done the first three chapters of the book, and the instructions when a part doesn't speak is to remove the part that's blocking it and put that blocking part in a room. You've already read the whole book. Aren't there other methods discussed in the book to get a part to talk?

I honestly dont remember. Its bren a few years since I read it and it was an audiobook. Definitely makes it harder to go back and check. I was doing a woek book for a while by a different author

 

[StarryEyed]

I honestly dont remember. Its bren a few years since I read it and it was an audiobook. Definitely makes it harder to go back and check. I was doing a woek book for a while by a different author

Yeah, that's a huge downside to audiobooks! They often don't even have a table of contents. Dreadful.

Are you still thinking of re-reading the IFS book with me? I hope so. I've started a thread for that here:

IFS therapy (Internal Family Systems) support group using book "No Bad Parts" for our suicidal part

This is a thread to discuss IFS therapy (Internal Family Systems) used for suicidal ideation. The plan is to read the book and do the exercises in the book that was written by the founder of IFS, Richard Schwartz. The book is "No Bad Parts." Here it is...

sanctioned-suicide.net

@I Me & Myself maybe you'd like to join too? Hope so!!

 

[Willy Wonka]

as before mentioned in @StarryEyed other thread I only worked with IFSGpt so far and you can't mention suicide there "ofc". So maybe this inspires me to take on a session without the help of AI. In regards to the overwhelming number of parts and the felt need to keep in touch with them: I don't think that you have to do that (eventhough it can be helpful for certain periods of time) since these sessions trigger changes on the subconscious level

 

[StarryEyed]

as before mentioned in @StarryEyed other thread I only worked with IFSGpt so far and you can't mention suicide there "ofc". So maybe this inspires me to take on a session without the help of AI. In regards to the overwhelming number of parts and the felt need to keep in touch with them: I don't think that you have to do that (eventhough it can be helpful for certain periods of time) since these sessions trigger changes on the subconscious level

That's really good advice, to not feel the need to keep in touch with all the parts. That was my experience in doing work with my ego states (for lack of a better word, because I did it on my own so it wasn't formal work). For me it was a balance between active listening and passive listening. Like a balance between embracing and letting go. My mindfulness training is key in being able to do that. Hopefully that approach will help in doing the IFS therapy. I'm getting pretty excited now to start reading the book next week.

 

[girl_with_a_plan]

Please use a therapist if possible - things like IFS are not something you can 'do by yourself'.

I found it incredibly useful when coupled with EMDR, but it wasn't really focused on SI per se - more like insights to help me understand something. It's not specifically about naming the part in therapy, but knowing the narratives that come up and threads that show up - so things around money, power, fear, immigration, betrayal and how those showed up in your family and influenced you as a kid.

 

[I Me & Myself]

Very interesting! Is this a method from the book?

I'm afraid not, it's something I figured out together with my behavioural therapist. She's not an expert on IFS, but she did read up on it for me and asked a colleague for advice too. Since she does CBT this may be a bit of a brute forced approach haha (this is a joke, CNT is obviously not 'bruder force')

Please use a therapist if possible - things like IFS are not something you can 'do by yourself

Really important. If you *can*, get support from someone who knows what they're doing. But I don't think you can't do IFS 'by yourself'. I think you can!

Because, in the theory IFS follows, *everyone* has parts. Even if you're "healthy" or "normal". This is just another way of gaining insight into yourself, and anyone can do it.

Now comes the big but:
It's really difficult to use it as a helpful aid on your own. For deeper problems, such as SI, you're gonna need support.

I found it incredibly useful when coupled with EMDR, but it wasn't really focused on SI per se - more like insights to help me understand something.

I feel like this insight into myself is actually the thing that helped me with my SI. Like you said; It doesn't have to be focused on that to help you with it

 

[StarryEyed]

@I Me & Myself by SI do you mean suicidal instinct or suicidal ideation? I always get confused on the forum about this.

 

[I Me & Myself]

@I Me & Myself by SI do you mean suicidal instinct or suicidal ideation? I always get confused on the forum about this.

You just gotta go from the context ;]

Me and girl_with_a_plan meant suicidal intent

 

[StarryEyed]

You just gotta go from the context ;]

Me and girl_with_a_plan meant suicidal intent

It's a rough day! I meant does SI mean survival instinct or suicidal ideation - meaning the opposite thing. But you get my gist. You're right that I have to look at the context. My head is a mess even without ambiguity fling into the mix.

Just to be sure: So suicidal intent is the same as suicidal ideation?

Edit to add:

So I looked it up myself and found this,

"Suicidal ideation is simply having thoughts about suicide, while suicidal intent indicates a clear plan and desire to complete suicide."

So they're not the same. Do we distinguish these here on the forum? It's hard to distinguish when using the acronym that could mean either suicidal ideation or suicidal intent - SI.

 

[hitagi-crab]

parts work is one of my preferred modalities of therapy. it's the best way i've found to get myself to accept difficult or shameful feelings. but funnily enough i've never really asked myself what the suicidal part of me wants, though, or delved very deep into her feelings.