Are your feelings invalidated by others?

[eternalmelancholy]

It seems like no reason is ever good enough for them. They will always try to guilt trip you by saying others have it worse, as if that is supposed to make you feel better. Or they repeat the same old meaningless platitudes.

When people share their feelings they just want to be heard. Being dismissed or trivialized only drives people into further isolation and desperation. Everyone has their own reasons why they want to ctb. No one has to explain or justify their reasons if they don't want to.

I hate the fact that we are automatically labelled as mentally unstable when ctb is a rational choice for many of us. Death is inevitable yet we are expected to cling on to the bitter end just because. Maybe if it wasn't socially taboo to discuss death and suicide, we wouldn't have to hide away in secrecy to form communities like SS in the first place.

 

[...]

yep. "everyone has been through a breakup". like thanks that suddenly makes me feel better...

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

"Help is just a phone call away."

 

[Crazy4u]

"Help is just a phone call away."

haha. yeah right. as if miracles and magical solutions are available.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

haha. yeah right. as if miracles and magical solutions are available.

It is like those idiots who dish out "thoughts and prayers" when a natural disaster strikes. Yeah these people lost their homes and family but I am sure your thoughts and prayers will magically fix everything. It is better just to shut up and say nothing than to offer meaningless and frankly insulting platitudes like this.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

haha. yeah right. as if miracles and magical solutions are available.

Well, to some they are basically available. Just not to everyone. Statistically (IIRC), most people get helped by meds/therapy/social stuff/changing jobs/exercise/etc. So I don't want to make it seem like a bad idea to get help if anyone hasn't already done that and jumped str8 to sui. For me, I've tried several meds and therapists with no luck. And I even identified my problems (mostly just a mismatch between how I am and how society works); turns out they can only be survived, not really overcome (at least that's what I think atm, but I tend to change my mind a lot).

 

[oohiniyorafaad]

all the time. "that's just how life is" "calm down" "it gets better". SHUT UP!!!!!

 

[yive]

yes, and this is the main reason why i stopped talking to others about my feelings. survival is a very brutal game, and i don't want to be a part of such a cruel world. it's all alien to me

 

[Snake of Eden]

Yes and no because as I know that no one Irl will understand my position but I cant really blame them for invalidating me because it is hard to with all toxic positivity and false optimism that is pervasive in society today. It is almost like a force of nature that cant be toppled. So I am resigned with no resentment about the state of how it is

 

[Julgran]

It seems like no reason is ever good enough for them. They will always try to guilt trip you by saying others have it worse, as if that is supposed to make you feel better. Or they repeat the same old meaningless platitudes.

Exactly. It's a mathematical fact that someone in this world will have it better when another person has it worse, and vice versa, but it's probably the worst thing one can say to someone - it's so careless.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

yes, and this is the main reason why i stopped talking to others about my feelings. survival is a very brutal game, and i don't want to be a part of such a cruel world. it's all alien to me

Yeah this world is a cruel and hostile place. I always wanted to leave and now that I finally have a good opportunity I am finding it hard to take that last step. I was actually supposed to go last week but I pushed it off the last moment. I am not sure why I am just waiting around. I have everything ready to go. All I have to do is pick a day.

For various reasons I won't get into I only have a brief window to do this. It would be a cruel joke if my indecisiveness made me lose this opportunity to ctb. I always kicked myself for not ctb sooner and I might not get another chance. I am really struggling to accept my death. It is not at all what I pictured in my head. I thought I would be a lot calmer and collected.

 

[Dot]

"U r givng up. U jst dnt wnt2 gt bettr"

 

[Choco]

It seems like no reason is ever good enough for them. They will always try to guilt trip you by saying others have it worse, as if that is supposed to make you feel better. Or they repeat the same old meaningless platitudes.

When people share their feelings they just want to be heard. Being dismissed or trivialized only drives people into further isolation and desperation. Everyone has their own reasons why they want to ctb. No one has to explain or justify their reasons if they don't want to.

I hate the fact that we are automatically labelled as mentally unstable when ctb is a rational choice for many of us. Death is inevitable yet we are expected to cling on to the bitter end just because. Maybe if it wasn't socially taboo to discuss death and suicide, we wouldn't have to hide away in secrecy to form communities like SS in the first place.

They´re afraid to become suicidal too lol

 

[demuic]

The worst are the shitty platitudes that are just a passive aggressive attack on someone for being suicidal or not being cured by the mental health industry.

"I tried meds and therapy and it didn't work for me."

Responses:

"You clearly just aren't trying hard enough and don't want to get better!"

"You just love being miserable and feeling sorry for yourself!"

"You are ungrateful, your life isn't that bad."

"You have no reason to be suicidal."

Or my favorite "if you really wanted to die you would have killed yourself already." Which basically translates to "I'll never believe how much you are suffering until you're actually dead." And probably not even then.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

I don't have any feelings to be invalidated

 

[yive]

"You clearly just aren't trying hard enough and don't want to get better!"

"You just love being miserable and feeling sorry for yourself!"

"You are ungrateful, your life isn't that bad."

"You have no reason to be suicidal."

Or my favorite "if you really wanted to die you would have killed yourself already." Which basically translates to "I'll never believe how much you are suffering until you're actually dead." And probably not even then.

omg, it's so pathetic... *facepalm*. we don't owe anything to this world!

 

[eternalmelancholy]

The worst are the shitty platitudes that are just a passive aggressive attack on someone for being suicidal or not being cured by the mental health industry.

"You are ungrateful, your life isn't that bad."

"if you really wanted to die you would have killed yourself already." Which basically translates to "I'll never believe how much you are suffering until you're actually dead." And probably not even then.

Man this is so triggering and you are so right. It is bad enough that we are suffering in silence but we are also expected to be grateful for a shitty life we never even asked for. These people who say these things will be the first ones to shed fake tears and say they never saw it coming. I am so done with living and so done with people. Everyday I am still alive I feel like I am betraying myself.

omg, it's so pathetic... *facepalm*. we don't owe anything to this world!

People always say that the world doesn't owe you anything and that is how life is. Yet the moment you express the desire to ctb they freak out and call you an ungrateful, selfish coward.

 

[Mercurial]

I hate the fact that we are automatically labelled as mentally unstable when ctb is a rational choice for many of us. Death is inevitable yet we are expected to cling on to the bitter end just because. Maybe if it wasn't socially taboo to discuss death and suicide, we wouldn't have to hide away in secrecy to form communities like SS in the first place.

Hi, mental health professionals often say that people who decide to CTB are ALL mentally ill. It is also very common that if someone is diagnosed with a mental health condition, every thought, every behavior, every feeling is considered a result or a consequence of an illness. As if an entire human being were completely determined by just an aspect or situation of their lives. It was very hard for me to find that if mental health professionals are so unaware of our reality, the rest of people around us will think similar things, or that we are ungrateful, deceiving , and similar cultural and religious kind of prejudice.

I think that our pain is so deep, then it's not something another one could just imagine and "empathize", so it's much easier for them to invalidate and to think that we can deal with things as they do with their own issues.

Sorry about my English. I'm a Latin girl.

 

[demuic]

Man this is so triggering and you are so right. It is bad enough that we are suffering in silence but we are also expected to be grateful for a shitty life we never even asked for. These people who say these things will be the first ones to shed fake tears and say they never saw it coming. I am so done with living and so done with people. Everyday I am still alive I feel like I am betraying myself.




People always say that the world doesn't owe you anything and that is how life is. Yet the moment you express the desire to ctb they freak out and call you an ungrateful, selfish coward.

They will endlessly repeat how life is not supposed to be easy and you're supposed to struggle. But they still act shocked when someone decides they don't want to deal with all that, and call them weak. As if there is any virtue in toiling endlessly for no reward. That's what I consider a fool's errand.

Why should someone be forced to live life -- which even pro lifers admit is hard and full of pain-- if they actually are "weak"?

 

[eternalmelancholy]

Hi, mental health professionals often say that people who decide to CTB are ALL mentally ill. It is also very common that if someone is diagnosed with a mental health condition, every thought, every behavior, every feeling is considered a result or a consequence of an illness. As if an entire human being were completely determined by just an aspect or situation of their lives. It was very hard for me to find that if mental health professionals are so unaware of our reality, the rest of people around us will think similar things, or that we are ungrateful, deceiving , and similar cultural and religious kind of prejudice.

This is a great point. Mental illness is always used as an excuse no matter what. From my experience health care professionals are merely academics following their training. Unless they personally experienced what we have, they will never understand.

They will endlessly repeat how life is not supposed to be easy and you're supposed to struggle. But they still act shocked when someone decides they don't want to deal with all that, and call them weak. As if there is any virtue in toiling endlessly for no reward. That's what I consider a fool's errand.

Yes it is absurd to struggle everyday in misery just to die unceremoniously in the end. Some people have good lives and I would never want to deprive them of that. But for others life can be pure torment day after day. Every person has a breaking point.

 

[yive]

People always say that the world doesn't owe you anything and that is how life is. Yet the moment you express the desire to ctb they freak out and call you an ungrateful, selfish coward.

it is our body, and we must defend our rights. tbh i don't care what all these brainwashed idiots will say after i'm gone. they may think all sort of bullshit about suicidal people, but they don't have the right to force us to live (to suffer). if someone invalidates your feelings, you can spit in their face, it is not an ally for you

 

[eternalmelancholy]

it is our body, and we must defend our rights. tbh i don't care what all those brainwashed idiots will say after i'm gone. they may think all sort of bullshit about suicidal people, but they don't have the right to force us to live (to suffer).

Once we are gone nothing will matter to us anymore. I guess that is the main appeal of venturing into the void. It is so conflicting because the desire to stop existing goes against our most primitive biological instincts.

I still don't know how to feel about my own suicide. Some days I feel relived knowing that this will end, other days I feel this immense sense of dread and fear. Even though I had previous attempt, it does not make it any easier. Over a million people successfully ctb each year so it is definitely possible. I know how hard it is for everyone here to keep on living.

 

[D&D]

I have long realised that trying to talk to people, even professionals, puts us both in a difficult, uncomfortable position ... their efforts to 'help/save' me, however superficial/inadequate might be, make me feel guilty on one hand, and obliged to 'get better' on the other.

In the end - we both lie to each other.

Them - out of professional obligation and/or deeply rooted set of values/beliefs. Me - out of guilt, obligation and because 'I am fine' is by far quicker and easier to pronounce than anything else, least of all how things really are.

Besides, what exactly 'they' (who ever they might be) are going to do? Hold my hand while I chug my drink? Stroke my hair whispering it is OK ... in movies maybe. If I have been able to form a relationship of that depth, love and care with another human being I would probably not be typing these and many similar words on this forum.

Unless I actually, even if subconsciously, want 'them' to help me not to chug it down - in which case I have to be prepared to take or to comply with whatever help 'they' are able/willing to offer - there is nothing 'they' can do and I should have enough decency to spare them the agony.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

Besides, what exactly 'they' (who ever they might be) are going to do? Hold my hand while I chug my drink? Stroke my hair whispering it is OK ... in movies maybe. If I have been able to form a relationship of that depth, love and care with another human being I would probably not be typing these and many similar words on this forum.

Hrmm that is a really good point. The only thing they can do is to listen and pretend they understand. Maybe that is why this place is so addictive. People here are honest with their feelings and they actually listen to others.

But you are right. In the end you have to take that final step on your own. It is just a soul crushing feeling knowing that you have to die by your own hands. Even though rationally and objectively it is the best course of action.

 

[Seiba]

They will endlessly repeat how life is not supposed to be easy and you're supposed to struggle. But they still act shocked when someone decides they don't want to deal with all that, and call them weak. As if there is any virtue in toiling endlessly for no reward. That's what I consider a fool's errand.

Why should someone be forced to live life -- which even pro lifers admit is hard and full of pain-- if they actually are "weak"?

The problem is you're asking for logic. From their perspective it's something you should never do and is never justified. That's as deep as it goes for them. Questions such as the price they'd be willing to pay for such an existence to stay, what would they be willing to do help other than platitudes, and why it matters to toil on for no reward are not questions they're interested in. They are only interested in their will being denied by you and by virtue the world. It is why the double think that the suicidal pain is always temporary, but the pain of those left behind will always stay. It is at it's core a projection when they claim selfishness.

When they call you weak or remind of the pain of others, it's not from a place of serious consideration they pondered. They're aiming for emotional dysregulation so you your affinity for it is undermined -- not of course understanding that talking someone out of dying much less effective than talking someone into living. Not the latter can be done always, but at the very least as not as dumb. That's it, really. It's just a character attack they pretend is an argument. It's an equivalent of "only gross boys want to be around girls you wouldn't want to get cooties, would you?" The very easy logic of "I wouldn't care about being weak if I was dead" can't be answered by them, nor your question about being forced to live. Any other stand in such as cowardice can be applied as well. At it's core just feral children in the body of adults.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

They are only interested in their will being denied by you and by virtue the world. It is why the double think that the suicidal pain is always temporary, but the pain of those left behind will always stay. It is at it's core a projection when they claim selfishness.

I always hated the quote 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem'. When life itself is the problem then it won't go away until the day you die. They also miss the fact that life is temporary. We won't be here forever.

If we are truly being honest no one really gives a shit. They might feel sad when you die but only because it reminds them of their own mortality. They might miss the things you could do for them, like providing company, sharing meals together, etc. But that is hardly a reason to stay and suffer just to spare them from having uncomfortable feelings.

 

[maakies]

The problem is you're asking for logic. From their perspective it's something you should never do and is never justified. That's as deep as it goes for them. Questions such as the price they'd be willing to pay for such an existence to stay, what would they be willing to do help other than platitudes, and why it matters to toil on for no reward are not questions they're interested in. They are only interested in their will being denied by you and by virtue the world. It is why the double think that the suicidal pain is always temporary, but the pain of those left behind will always stay. It is at it's core a projection when they claim selfishness.

When they call you weak or remind of the pain of others, it's not from a place of serious consideration they pondered. They're aiming for emotional dysregulation so you your affinity for it is undermined -- not of course understanding that talking someone out of dying much less effective than talking someone into living. Not the latter can be done always, but at the very least as not as dumb. That's it, really. It's just a character attack they pretend is an argument. It's an equivalent of "only gross boys want to be around girls you wouldn't want to get cooties, would you?" The very easy logic of "I wouldn't care about being weak if I was dead" can't be answered by them, nor your question about being forced to live. Any other stand in such as cowardice can be applied as well. At it's core just feral children in the body of adults.

I like this answer a lot. I tend to approach people who are varying degrees of academic whenever I feel this way, and tend to veer away from those who are trying to convince me otherwise. They definitely go straight for the heart strings, or tough love. It is much easier to make the case for life than it is for "not death," as death is inevitable.

 

[Seiba]

I always hated the quote 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem'. When life itself is the problem then it won't go away until the day you die. They also miss the fact that life is temporary. We won't be here forever.

If we are truly being honest no one really gives a shit. They might feel sad when you die but only because it reminds them of their own mortality. They might miss the things you could do for them, like providing company, sharing meals together, etc. But that is hardly a reason to stay and suffer just to spare them from having uncomfortable feelings.

For me, it's been "suicide is a permanent solution". Yes, that's in fact the point. It means little when they claim something is temporary but offer no good alternatives, I can agree. They're not willing to pay your bills, house you, or otherwise. You matter as long as you are in view, and then as long as you are enjoyable and not massively seen as inconvenience. I think it's common for people with long term problems they're honest about for it to cause invalidation and even anger from others -- looking at some of the threads from members who suffer from chronic illnesses. I think some are simply misguided and do care, but do so in a harmful way.

It's not our responsibility to educate them, however. From my perspective the irony of leaving behind people who will be upset is if they understood me at all they would be accepting of my reasoning. Maybe it wouldn't have been ideal for them, but it wouldn't ruin their life. It shouldn't take being dead for it to be a problem, the problems that led me to being dead should have mattered when alive. Funny that the former is the one that causes problems and not the latter. That's where the logic of "the pain doesn't end, it simply passes on when you're dead" dies ironically enough -- if it passed on at all it would have mattered more in life. Their pain is not the same, it one of societal conditioning against suicide that implodes on itself. They help maintain that function and refuse to better their understanding so my empathy resides largely with the suicidal.

I like this answer a lot. I tend to approach people who are varying degrees of academic whenever I feel this way, and tend to veer away from those who are trying to convince me otherwise. They definitely go straight for the heart strings, or tough love. It is much easier to make the case for life than it is for "not death," as death is inevitable.

Yes, I can say the same with my real life experience with it due to a failed attempt years ago. Being screamed at and called selfish with "people in Africa have it worse" and otherwise. I don't even think my reasons were asked for, not that I would have been allowed to articulate them regardless.

Even when it died down, it was largely reduced to teenage hormones. The suicidal I think should regulate themselves to highly trusted environments such as this one that won't endanger their safety over people in the real world. People who are taking place in meat space need to put in more effort so it is societally safer and doesn't grant loss of autonomy. The best case scenario they understand and you're no better in the realm of methods or access to suicide. The worst are the platitudes, guilt trips, tough love, and calling the police behind your back. Not worth it, in my opinion at least. I will never utter it out loud and I will never fail again.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

It's not our responsibility to educate them, however. From my perspective the irony of leaving behind people who will be upset is if they understood me at all they would be accepting of my reasoning. Maybe it wouldn't have been ideal for them, but it wouldn't ruin their life. It shouldn't take being dead for it to be a problem, the problems that led me to being dead should have mattered when alive. Funny that the former is the one that causes problems and not the latter.

You are right. We don't have to justify our reasons to anyone, not that they would even listen in the first place. I never got the argument that suicide just passes off the suffering to others. That makes no sense to me. The discomfort they might feel pales in comparison to the person who fucking killed themselves. It blows my mind how people always have to make it about themselves. Someone just died and all they can think of is how it affects them.

I am so done with life and dealing with people. I never belonged here in the first place. I look back on my life and actually pity myself for holding on so long. For what exactly? I am not sure. False hope? Stubbornness? Who knows and I guess in the end it doesn't even matter.

 

[Bleak]

Some of my deepest, most painful ones, yes.