Are all suicidal people depressed?

[shatteredvessel]

To answer my own question. I'm not depressed. I have been depressed and depressed with suicidal ideation in the past. However, I'm not depressed right now. Well at least I don't think I am or feel that way, depressed. Is it an exception to not be depressed but suicidal? It's more of a I'm just done with it (living) choice. Can one be rational and suicidal? Or have I gone off the deep end? I see, hear, etc all this sadness framed around ctb. It makes it seem that's why most if not everyone who is suicidal, depressed.

 

[chloeburbank]

i cant tell if im depressed or not. u dont need to be depressed to be suicidal

 

[Passenger4224]

I've seen posts from other users who feel the same

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

While depression definitely increases suicidality, it's not strictly needed, although almost all negative mental (and indeed physical) conditions have a degree of depression or depressive phases because of the struggles that come with living with such conditions, so depression almost always comes together, if anything, by the sheer inevitability of morbidity.

 

[thaelyana]

That's a really good question. For a while, I also thought someone could commit suicide in a purely rational way. But looking back, I guess there has to be an underlying issue, even a completely unconscious one, to reach that point.

I don't have a depression diagnosis, yet I have this desire to die by suicide for no obvious reason. Just a desire for a chosen death, with a perfect plan, to end things on my own terms simply when I don't want to keep going anymore.

A friend once told me that dying by choice wasn't that interesting because, either way, death happens. According to him, there is no point in rushing an inevitable outcome. I think that applies well to this situation where someone wants to commit suicide simply out of "desire." But it's just so complex...

I actually asked my psychiatry professor about this. He told me those are very rare and unusual cases. He said: "Keep in mind that the vast majority of suicides occur in a context of psychological distress, even if it isn't always visible from the outside. There are situations where suicide is presented as a reasoned choice, but that mostly relates to contexts of severe illness, intense physical suffering, or loss of autonomy, which are the kinds of things discussed around euthanasia and assisted suicide."


(I translated my message into English I hope there is no mistake)

 

[IsThisTheEnd?]

I was going to start such a thread. I wouldn't say i was depressed but theres nothing for me. What am i supposed to do just sit in the corners dribbling or something. I'm almost going to do it out of embarrassment and boredom.

 

[limenlux]

I actually asked my psychiatry professor about this. He told me those are very rare and unusual cases. He said: "Keep in mind that the vast majority of suicides occur in a context of psychological distress, even if it isn't always visible from the outside. There are situations where suicide is presented as a reasoned choice, but that mostly relates to contexts of severe illness, intense physical suffering, or loss of autonomy, which are the kinds of things discussed around euthanasia and assisted suicide."

I would agree with this, aside from perhaps the phrasing of suicide being presented as a rational choice concerning euthanasia and assisted suicide, when under certain circumstances I think the choice to end one's life is rational, and can be even while a person is in distress.

I may just be losing myself in semantics, though, and I can fully appreciate that a psychiatry professor would want to be careful in how he addresses these subjects to his students. In any case, he's more knowledgable on these things than I am, and if I were the one speaking to him, I'd probably just defer to his expertise.

 

[Pluto]

 

[HNR_]

I feel the exact same way you do and I've also asked myself that question haha
Really feels more nuanced than one might assume at first when you look at things and just want to shrug like "why bother at this point?"

 

[TheBag]

Although there is usually some kind of depression involved, it can actually be done quite calculated. My reason to CTB would probably not be for psychologic/psychiatric reasons but more likely when I get serious heart disease or cancer. I'm getting older, and the way I've lived my life (a lot of stress, smoking, drinking, and sedatives) bears quite a bit of risk for that kind of thing. If I were to get such a disastrous diagnosis, I would not hesitate to CTB in the very short term.

 

[thaelyana]

I would agree with this, aside from perhaps the phrasing of suicide being presented as a rational choice concerning euthanasia and assisted suicide, when under certain circumstances I think the choice to end one's life is rational, and can be even while a person is in distress.

I may just be losing myself in semantics, though, and I can fully appreciate that a psychiatry professor would want to be careful in how he addresses these subjects to his students. In any case, he's more knowledgable on these things than I am, and if I were the one speaking to him, I'd probably just defer to his expertise.

YES exactly. I think he didn't mean to say bullshit or give ideas. My precise question was: "are there suicides of people who do not suffer and who would therefore be bound by a choice on their part? Or is there always a hidden distress? Thanks"

And I had this exact return to writing. I also imagine that he is right, that there is surely a problem because it is against "nature" to kill yourself (if we take the example of the SI to prove all this)

 

[bl33ding_heart]

Being depressed isnt something you need in order to be considered suicidal. Although most of us are depressed.

 

[Canto XIII]

I think a depressed person can be rational as well. By this I don't mean suicide is necessarily rational for a depressed person, I've already told here that I think it normally isn't. You don't have to be depressed to be suicidal, nor depression is the only reason for suicide. Ajax killed himself out of shame, Socrates killed himself out of a sense of duty. That being said, it's my impression that that's the most frequent case, as it takes a strong and abnormal tedium vitae to overcome the natural, indestructible desire to live. I'm also of the opinion depression does not always manifest strikingly, neither from an external nor from an internal point of view. Maybe I'm using the word depression too freely though.

Edit: Oh, and my Pier delle Vigne killed himself out of contempt, too, according to Dante at least.

 

[valar_morghulis21]

To answer my own question. I'm not depressed. I have been depressed and depressed with suicidal ideation in the past. However, I'm not depressed right now. Well at least I don't think I am or feel that way, depressed. Is it an exception to not be depressed but suicidal? It's more of a I'm just done with it (living) choice. Can one be rational and suicidal? Or have I gone off the deep end? I see, hear, etc all this sadness framed around ctb. It makes it seem that's why most if not everyone who is suicidal, depressed.

Life-long depression here, but I'm not like sad or anything, just numb and empty after years of broken heart. That would be my default state when I ctb.

 

[Cyaneed]

I'm always suicidal, don't know why exactly. Sometimes I have depression, but most of the time everything feels ok and upbeat. I'm going to my doc today to get DNR into my papers just in case an accident happens. Have to dress nicely, be put together and everything, so he doesn't see any red flags regarding the request.

 

[somethingisntreal]

I've come to the realization that my suicidal thoughts are compulsive. Probably. The idea alsways stays at the back of my head whether I'm feeling upset or not. It's alwayss there. I could be having fun and laughing and I'll still be thinking about suicide. I usually try to distract myself from them by consuming media, doing stupid risky bullshit and humiliating myself for entertainment but beneath all of it lies "I need to kill myself." It even leaks into my conversations. I'm a boring person so whenver I run out of things to say to someone I start ranting about the ethics of suicide and suicide methods. That's all that goes in my mind everyday. I can't stop it. I can only drown it out temporarily. Sorry if I went on a weird tangent here but to answer your question - no, atleast for me my SI does not stem from depression.

 

[passthisnote]

im not rlly depressed rn per say but im going to ctb to avoid being depressed in the future

 

[Forever Sleep]

There are certainly people who want to suicide because of incurable physical illness- rather than mental. They sometimes say they would want to live if they weren't suffering with their physical health. Of course, they could be feeling depressed for being in pain so much of the time.

I suppose that's the other thing though. Are we saying depression creates irrational thoughts? Are we saying depression itself is irrational? Is it so irrational to develop depression living in this world?

Why isn't it rational to be saying- I don't like how I'm being forced to live- it's making me unhappy. There's no effective way to change it- that I can see. So- quitting would seem my better option. Why is that irrational?

I suppose depression maybe skews our thoughts towards pessimism and decimates our energy to try to change things. Although still- I don't actually think it's all that irrational to be unhappy in life. There's so much that can go badly wrong.

That's the other thing- how often does depression hit someone totally out of the blue? I'd imagine it's more common for someone to develop depression because of a difficult life situation. If that life situation doesn't change substantially- why would they stop being depressed about it?

 

[never mind me]

I don't think that you need to be depressed to be suicidal. Not only are there many other mental health problems that can cause your life to be miserable, but there are also other things like physical illness or simply being in a bad situation in life that you can't get out of or don't know how to get out of. Personally I have never suffered from depression, but I had suicidal ideation for years in my late teens, because of intense self hatred. I don't even know, if my state of mind would have fitted the symptoms of any mental disorder, but I was certainly extremely unhappy, despite my life circumstances not being all that bad at the time. Later I still had occasional bouts of suicidal ideation for different reasons (mental problems, life circumstances and recently physical health issues), although they didn't last for years.
Even my boy-friend who is generally a really upbeat person (although he has ADHD) briefly considered suicide when he couldn't find a job after graduating for 1,5 years (and didn't even get any job interviews during this time).

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

no

extremely horrible situations can trap any human which would make the escape by suicide the rational option

pain is many times worse than people can imagine

it's a big lie they created and perpetrate that if a person wants suicide it's only because of medical depression or mental illness

I agree with the following book

Suicide Prohibition: The Shame of Medicine

Thomas Szasz

Suicide Prohibition: The Shame of Medicine

In Western thought, suicide has evolved from sin to sin…

www.goodreads.com

An author and Professor Emeritus of Psychology describes what he calls the myth of mental illness and discusses why suicide is a basic human right in which the medical industry has no right to become involved. :

modern state owes its citizens, Szasz argues that suicide is a basic human right and that the lengths to which the medical industry goes to prevent it represent a deprivation of that right.

Drawing on his general theory of the myth of mental illness, Szasz makes a compelling case that the voluntary termination of one's own life is the result of a decision, not a disease. He presents an in-depth examination and critique of contemporary anti–suicide policies, which are based on the notion that voluntary death is a mental health problem, and systematically lays out the dehumanizing consequences of psychiatrizing suicide prevention.

If suicide be deemed a problem, it is not a medical problem. Managing it as if it were a disease, or the result of a disease, will succeed only in debasing medicine and corrupting the law. Pretending to be the pride of medicine, psychiatry is its shame.

https://www.amazon.com/Suicide-Prohibition-Medicine-Thomas-Szasz/dp/0815609906

The Myth of Mental Illness: Foundations of a Theory of …

A classic work that has revolutionized thinking through…

www.goodreads.com

 

[FuneralCry]

No, I'd never be able to understand how anyone could say such a thing, there's no illness in wanting true permanent peace from this torturous, futile existence that I just always saw as mistake, for me ceasing to exist is the positive solution, it's just so horrible how a human can suffer for decades longer on this existence that was completely unnecessary in the first place with no limit as to how much one can be tortured just to face the terrible extreme agony of old age.

I don't see what could ever be ill about wanting to be free from all future suffering, there are no disadvantages to the peace of non-existence and for me ceasing to exist is all that's ideal, I'll always see existence as an abomination that only ever tortures existing beings all for the sake of it and it's just so terrible how this existence was even imposed at all, I'll always find it so deeply undesirable to exist, I'll always see existence as the problem.

 

[WPeregrine]

No, it's not necessary. I'm not depressed, but I have had some suicidal episodes lately. I have been depressed in the past, so I know what that feels like, and my current state of mind is definitely not depressed.

There is some depressive symptoms that overlap with my current state of mind I guess, and combined with the suicidal ideation, even I myself thought for a minute that I must be depressed, despite my moods not fitting that label at all. But no, hanging out here, observing the mental state of some people here who are clearly depressed, it is obvious to me now that I am not. I recognize what people are going through here from my past depression, and I recognize that I'm not in that place right now.

However, I do see that the mental and behavioral patterns in me right now which drive my suicidal ideation, are potentially (if I allow it) the precursors of depression. It's like I'm suicidal in anticipation - feeling like "if this is how it's going to be, I might as well ctb, before I reach that depressive state".

Honestly, recognizing that is a big deal to me right now. It means that the therapy and all the inner work of the past 10 years have not been for nothing. It means I have gained the awareness that will allow me to at least attempt to correct my direction before it is too late, and hopefully avert crashing down that black hole again...