Discussion Y'all are delusional

[R. A.]

Did my inflammatory post title catch your eye? Great! It's really just a tactic to get some eyes on this thread because the only thing I want to incite is a discussion. I would love to have some members here think deeply about what I'm positing and share their takes. I am not out to get anyone, be judgmental or critical - I see evidence of many bright minds on this forum, and seriously hope they will share their takes on the following.​

In a lot of different kinds of threads and on various subjects, I see a lot of users make some pretty broad statements. Two kinds, about "life" in particular, have been catching my eye and turning the gears in my brain - statements like "suffering is pointless/meaningless" and "life is a mistake/shouldn't exist". The question of this post, for those who write and/or think such things is: what exactly do you mean?

Actually, I have an idea of what you mean. Regarding the first one, I'm pretty sure you don't mean it goes above personal purpose and goals, as it's not hard for an individual to feel they have "a" purpose; you mean that all this suffering we endure (yes I am one of you) is in the end for nothing cause we are born to die anyway, and yes even if life were great we all still have the same fate so what's the point, etc. A similar thing probably follows for the second statement; if life had never evolved then all of this pointless suffering wouldn't even be part of the world picture, and wouldn't that be nice. I could be wrong (and please share your thoughts if they differ), but this is what I imagine. I do have thoughts like this myself at times.

However...something doesn't quite fit right. On the first notion, I find considering the opposite illuminating: can you either describe or imagine life or a world that does have inherent meaning? The only thing I can possibly think of that might fit this kind of bill would be some religious framework, where by living a certain kind of life we obtain some particular otherworldly goal, and failing to do so means, well, failing to do so. That contextualizes this life's suffering and satisfaction and whatever else into something bigger. But this doesn't solve the problem: why does it matter that we attain that goal beyond life? "Life" kind of takes on a new meaning and could be expanded to include whatever existence we cross over into after death. I guess you can still say that in this scenario, the "point" and "meaning" of this life now exist, which is all any of us know for now, but I don't think it really solves the problem because once we achieve any goal, the game is over, so to speak. "Okay I was a good person and bore out the misery of my human life and am now in paradise/enlightened/religious reward x...now what?".

This is a good place to link to the second view. Maybe you don't buy into any of this nonsense - maybe you think that there's no hereafter, that we're just a bunch of elements organized into these (often faulty, in our cases) sentient containers and what a cruel fate has been given to us; everything just struggles to maintain its existence, usually at the expense of other similar life forms, when in the end it's all just going to go back to where it came from - how vile; it ought to have never been. Honestly I myself align somewhat with this perspective. However, after seeing enough people writing things like this; thinking of the fact that neither matter nor energy can be created nor destroyed; learning about theories of the origins of life - things like a bunch of inorganic matter just so happened to be in the right place at the right time, or that a bunch of non-living proteins under replicable laboratory conditions can be made to just sort of spontaneously aggregate into the building blocks of life, well...all of this seems to say that life absolutely was not a mistake by any measure. There kinda seems to be this inherent predilection for the fundamental constituents of the universe to get to this point. With this is mind, the statement "life is a mistake" feels kind of on par with something life "gravity is a mistake". For better or worse, this seems like a kind of incontrovertible condition of sheer existence, and there's likely a better way to express whatever this sentiment is getting at. Harsh, cruel, not my cup of tea?

As a follow-up, maybe some of you may say something like "well, the universe should have just never existed to begin with then. This is where everything kinda goes to shit I think - my suicidal self might say "yes, exactly!" but my philosopher self would more likely say "what the hell does that even mean?". We can imagine a lot of things; eating our favourite food, being in another place or time, not living with whatever circumstances are causing us to want to ctb, or not living at all...but can anyone really, REALLY imagine the non-existence of the universe? Maybe you imagine a bunch of empty space. Well, sorry to say...that's the kind of thing that needs a universe. Void and matter are two sides of the same coin. Some defined and finite segment of outer space with no matter in it could hardly be called "non-existence". Maybe you go back to the spiritual side of things and picture a kind of purgatory or limbo. But then you're still imagining something, right? And how would anyone be able to imagine something that doesn't exist to begin with? The non-existence of the universe is literally nothing - both of absence-of and an absence-of-absence-of - which I believe may firmly be outside the bounds of human cognition.

So what is it we think about or wish for when we have thoughts or make statements like this? Language is a very funny thing; to be honest I expect that deep down, most just use expressions like this as a shorthand to express our innermost desire and frustrations with the circumstances of our own lives. But these kinds of general expressions can, I think, have unintended and even unwanted side effects. We may, over time, convince ourselves and/or others of the truths we seem/want to convey by them, when in fact it's entirely possible there is no such truth. Before we go around claiming "life is meaningless" or "pointless", we owe it to ourselves to ask: can life even be inherently meaningful or purposeful? if so, what does that look like? Before we say "life is a mistake", consider: can elements make mistakes? over and over, for hundreds of millions of years? And if the universe was a mistake, well...whose mistake, exactly?

If you read this little essay, I hope you'll recall my intro as I look forward to some interesting responses. Please save it if your contribution would be nothing more than just hammering the above takes with slightly altered language - I'm hoping to find some fleshed-out and/or new angles, insights, and so on from folks. I recognize that those of us in this boat are not always the most rational of creatures (myself absolutely included), but as long as I am continuing to choose not to die, I find it helpful to engage in these kind of extended thought experiments, and with such a community think there could be some real benefit in doing so collaboratively.

Edit summary: perhaps due to poor wording, people seem to be fixating on responding to a "does life have meaning" question I wasn't trying to ask, as this isn't the kind of thing I see these statements around the forum referring to. It was more about "can suffering have inherent meaning" (I think), so I've tried to rewrite some key parts accordingly.

 

[Ginnn]

My conclusion on this topic is that I have no fucking idea.
So there's something that exist, nobody can figure how but it exists, that's space-time. And then there's this weird thing called "matter" that needs space and this even weirder thing called "energy" that needs time. And there is also another weirder thing called "me"(?) that makes possible for all of that to exist. But I think it could actually exist without "me" and "me" is just something random.
Like, why does our consciousness even exist? Why can't it be just braincells recieving energy and reacting just following the laws of the universe and that's all???? What is this? The wall I can touch, the floor I can see, the voice in my head, my memories...
This all could work without this ''''consciousness'''' having to exist. It all is just atoms reacting just as they should, that means there is no actual "free will" but there's still 'someone' who's feeling all this. An action can be explained, a feeling can be explained, a wish can be explained, but wtf is this???? Am """"I"""" just information??? Energy???
The "universe" is just what we percieve, but I don't even know how could it even work...
Maybe there's existance because nothing is something and something needs existance to be. And there's like every single possible universe and all infinite ways existance can manifest itself. And that would mean there's no actual mistery behind this, cuz everything exists, this universe just exists randomly, and that we got "laws of phisics" is just a coincidence.

Me estoy muriendo de tanta fiebre que tengo ahora mismo y estoy delirando

 

[flightless bird]

can life even be inherently meaningful or purposeful?

No.

Experiences in life can be meaningful or purposeful. I understand that the problem with existence is that, all good things come to an end, but pain and suffering may persist until death. No good experience ever lasts, but bad experiences last pretty easily. There are unbearable sufferings that can last for a lifetime. People have limits, and those limits are not imaginary.

Before we say "life is a mistake", consider: can elements make mistakes? over and over, for hundreds of millions of years?

"Life" has no true definition, it is just a series of experiences, but the word itself is completely devoid of any definite meaning. There are good and satisfactory experiences, and there are bad and hurtful experiences. And all of it ends with death.

And if the universe was a mistake, well...whose mistake, exactly?

Nature does what it does and it can't function any other way. There is an element of indifference / ignorance in nature which also gives birth to our consciousness. Ignorance defines knowledge, and time defines all things.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Life on this planet is just what chemicals are doing until the sun burns out.

 

[Zegers]

So the central point would be whether life, in some way, can have any meaning.

I believe that what gives meaning to a life is what you inherently have in your life, a person who has health, a good family, goals, purpose, hope, is a person whose life has meaning, it has a 'core'

A person who has no health, no family, no social life and has been suffering for years, their life has no meaning and no direction, there is no core.

It would be a long topic to cover but i have tried to sum it up in a nutshell.

 

[Efilismislife]

So the central point would be whether life, in some way, can have any meaning.

I believe that what gives meaning to a life is what you inherently have in your life, a person who has health, a good family, goals, purpose, hope, is a person whose life has meaning, it has a 'core'

A person who has no health, no family, no social life and has been suffering for years, their life has no meaning and no direction, there is no core.

It would be a long topic to cover but i have tried to sum it up in a nutshell.

Yeah. Although eventually everything will come to nothing and deteriorated, dying

because we are only a tragedy created as a minion, given random fate.
because of the breeding drive that makes human bring another human to this sufferings

Life on this planet is just what chemicals are doing until the sun burns out.

Similar to animals

Can you either describe or imagine life or a world that does have inherent meaning?​

A how would anyone be able to imagine something that doesn't exist to begin with?​

Thats already been answered

REALLY imagine the non-existence of the universe?​

not imagining because many people have become non existent(disappeared)and eventually everybody will be non existent
And before we existed were also non existent

Before we go around claiming "life is meaningless" or "pointless", we owe it to ourselves can life even be inherently meaningful or purposeful? if so, what does that look like? Before we say "life is a mistake", consider: can elements make mistakes? over and over, for hundreds of millions of years? And if the universe was a mistake, well...whose mistake, exactly?

Yes there are many
like genetic mutation where a baby/or animal born with deadly debilitating disease just to suffer and just die shortly

 

[Maudlin]

I don't think I'm the kind of person you're addressing with your post. I don't think life is pointless. Nor do I think it's meaningless. I wouldn't know about you, or anyone else... but my life was no accident or random confluence of events. I believe it's up to each of us, assuming we are cognizant, sentient beings, to find the meaning in our lives.

That doesn't mean we have to like what we find. It doesn't mean what we find will be pretty.

It also doesn't necessarily mean we'll be successful or accurate about any of it at all.

Some things I became quite accomplished at in life I had to fail miserably at dozens of times before I once got it right. Other things I am (as yet) unmatched, since my first try. I was born this way. I've had decades to think about why. I had to think about it, in order to be better.

The things I've done well, I strive to reach perfection in and I come as close as possible (often a lengthy, ongoing process). The things I do best I've never seen examples in almost half a century of anyone else ever having done them better. It took my mind, and my will to achieve those things I have achieved... It was my purpose, my elegance. I recognize my handiwork.

I see the earmarks of elegance and purpose in all of creation around me. I had my reasons, each time I created. You, or anyone else might not understand my reasons apon inspection of my handiwork accurately, and you or anyone else might not have an intellect capable of understanding that purpose even existed as an element of creation, but regardless... I had my reasons.

I think you draw lines between the spiritual and the material where there are none, OP. Matter is just "kinky energy", for lack of a better phrase, when you get right down to it. Your spirit, or soul, is just energy tied to the kinky energy of the matter that makes up your body. Thought is energy. All is energy. We're all just bizarre "flights of fancy" floating through the mind of God... whatever that is.

In my particular case, my "flight of fancy" would like to become an intrusive enough thought that it requires special attention. God has driven me insane. I'd like to return the favor.

 

[chocolatebar]

Good topic. I'm a bit too tired to discuss right now, so I will just point out something right now

things like a bunch of inorganic matter just so happened to be in the right place at the right time, or that a bunch of non-living proteins under replicable laboratory conditions can be made to just sort of spontaneously aggregate into the building blocks of life, well...all of this seems to say that life absolutely was not a mistake by any measure. There kinda seems to be this inherent predilection for the fundamental constituents of the universe to get to this point.

You have no evidence to claim that there's some "predilection for the fundamental constituents of the universe to get to this point."

No matter how small a probability is, as long as it's above zero, if you have infinite repetitions, it will eventually happen. We don't know how small the probabilities or life emerging are, but, since we're here, we know it's possible, and the universe is so old and giant that the initial conditions for life have probably happened in a lot of places, a lot of time, not because of some "predilection", but merely by repetition. To put into perspective, we could think about the conditions for not having life, which happened for almost 100% of the time and still, isn't a "predilection" for not having life in the universe.

 

[BlazingBob]

I'm too exhausted and have too much brain fog to read the long posts and follow along. Chronic illness sucks

 

[R. A.]

Glad to already be getting some interesting responses! Though some are admittedly totally off the mark! Haha

My conclusion on this topic is that I have no fucking idea.
So there's something that exist, nobody can figure how but it exists, that's space-time. And then there's this weird thing called "matter" that needs space and this even weirder thing called "energy" that needs time. And there is also another weirder thing called "me"(?) that makes possible for all of that to exist. But I think it could actually exist without "me" and "me" is just something random.
Like, why does our consciousness even exist? Why can't it be just braincells recieving energy and reacting just following the laws of the universe and that's all???? What is this? The wall I can touch, the floor I can see, the voice in my head, my memories...
This all could work without this ''''consciousness'''' having to exist. It all is just atoms reacting just as they should, that means there is no actual "free will" but there's still 'someone' who's feeling all this. An action can be explained, a feeling can be explained, a wish can be explained, but wtf is this???? Am """"I"""" just information??? Energy???
The "universe" is just what we percieve, but I don't even know how could it even work...
Maybe there's existance because nothing is something and something needs existance to be. And there's like every single possible universe and all infinite ways existance can manifest itself. And that would mean there's no actual mistery behind this, cuz everything exists, this universe just exists randomly, and that we got "laws of phisics" is just a coincidence.

Me estoy muriendo de tanta fiebre que tengo ahora mismo y estoy delirando

Yup, the great existential mindfuck. What a trip it would be to even be able to perceive "the world" as a non-human for just a few moments...

So the central point would be whether life, in some way, can have any meaning.

I believe that what gives meaning to a life is what you inherently have in your life, a person who has health, a good family, goals, purpose, hope, is a person whose life has meaning, it has a 'core'

A person who has no health, no family, no social life and has been suffering for years, their life has no meaning and no direction, there is no core.

It would be a long topic to cover but i have tried to sum it up in a nutshell.

Yes; as I wrote, I don't think this is a point of contention; I think even those who write the kinds of things I mention believe that particular individuals can find or create a sense of meaning in their own lives. It's the bigger picture aspect I wonder about regarding their view.

I don't think I'm the kind of person you're addressing with your post. I don't think life is pointless. Nor do I think it's meaningless. I wouldn't know about you, or anyone else... but my life was no accident or random confluence of events. I believe it's up to each of us, assuming we are cognizant, sentient beings, to find the meaning in our lives.

That doesn't mean we have to like what we find. It doesn't mean what we find will be pretty.

It also doesn't necessarily mean we'll be successful or accurate about any of it at all.

Some things I became quite accomplished at in life I had to fail miserably at dozens of times before I once got it right. Other things I am (as yet) unmatched, since my first try. I was born this way. I've had decades to think about why. I had to think about it, in order to be better.

The things I've done well, I strive to reach perfection in and I come as close as possible (often a lengthy, ongoing process). The things I do best I've never seen examples in almost half a century of anyone else ever having done them better. It took my mind, and my will to achieve those things I have achieved... It was my purpose, my elegance. I recognize my handiwork.

I see the earmarks of elegance and purpose in all of creation around me. I had my reasons, each time I created. You, or anyone else might not understand my reasons apon inspection of my handiwork accurately, and you or anyone else might not have an intellect capable of understanding that purpose even existed as an element of creation, but regardless... I had my reasons.

I think you draw lines between the spiritual and the material where there are none, OP. Matter is just "kinky energy", for lack of a better phrase, when you get right down to it. Your spirit, or soul, is just energy tied to the kinky energy of the matter that makes up your body. Thought is energy. All is energy. We're all just bizarre "flights of fancy" floating through the mind of God... whatever that is.

In my particular case, my "flight of fancy" would like to become an intrusive enough thought that it requires special attention. God has driven me insane. I'd like to return the favor.

As you say, I think you're right - you don't seem the type at all that I refer to in the original post, haha. I've amended it a bit to emphasize the "suffering is pointless" aspect, which I kind of lumped in. Maybe that's the bigger question for those with the outlook - under what set of circumstances would or could suffering have a "point"?

Good topic. I'm a bit too tired to discuss right now, so I will just point out something right now

You have no evidence to claim that there's some "predilection for the fundamental constituents of the universe to get to this point."

No matter how small a probability is, as long as it's above zero, if you have infinite repetitions, it will eventually happen. We don't know how small the probabilities or life emerging are, but, since we're here, we know it's possible, and the universe is so old and giant that the initial conditions for life have probably happened in a lot of places, a lot of time, not because of some "predilection", but merely by repetition. To put into perspective, we could think about the conditions for not having life, which happened for almost 100% of the time and still, isn't a "predilection" for not having life in the universe.

Fair. Maybe it was a poor choice of words; I was just trying to emphasize the uncanniness that so-called "life" does seem to have sprung up from "non-life" and persisted for a very long time, no less. Considering that, and the random chance element you highlight, it just seems weird to use the term "mistake". I look forward to reading any further contribution from you :-)

It is a very interesting subject. I believe this type of thinking is intrinsically linked to our personal beliefs.

Regarding the first statement / question for which, many people can find meaning in human existence because of religion. I don't believe in God, so it's easy for me to say that if they think they're reaching a goal, that's the same thing, and they're going to die anyway. But also because the monotheistic religion has existed for about 2000 years, not counting the other types of belief, and that has not changed anything fundamentally.
I questioned the religious people around me, I went to services. What always comes back is "life after death". Most people don't know anything about religion, have never read religious books and know almost nothing about their rules. But there was a form of oral transmission, transmission of culture which makes them consider themselves religious. And they are religious for one thing: life after death. It is never a question of life path, of personal conviction on the creation of the universe, of sharp reflection, of knowledge on the subject. It is always very superficial and oriented towards the basic aspirations of a human being: the fear of dying, the need for a paradise (with material goods), the impossibility of thinking that our existence is insignificant. In itself, this kind of argument does not bother me, but it's just that I would like explanations, to understand their reasoning and most of the time they themselves are not very able to explain it. It's always: life after death, and thinking that life is sacred with all the pro-life iodines, that the human being is at the top of everything. We have always been like this, so we continue.

Either way, to the statement "can you either describe or imagine life or a world that does have inherent meaning?" I would answer today's world. It makes sense, otherwise people wouldn't reproduce to perpetuate the species, wouldn't ban assisted suicide to prevent everyone from doing it, wouldn't pay their taxes, wouldn't actively participate in societies, wouldn't watch television when a politician speaks. They are fully involved in the world and I find myself an observer of everything, I have absolutely nothing to do with it. All the basic human considerations: eating, sleeping, fucking, buying a building, having children, getting married, finding a job, having a brilliant professional career no longer interest me. These are events that bother me.
Many people tell themselves that life has meaning, is useful only as long as they are there, so do things and not kill themselves. That their belief in God allows them to do everything to behave well, help the poor, save the planet. But in fact they do absolutely nothing: they could do things to improve the world that they do not do for material comfort, they are content to consume and take advantage of their status. One day, I pointed out to them that that was what we were doing: nothing, and probably more harm than good. They were shocked, didn't say anything because they can't conceive of it.

I remain convinced that as long as human beings have an instinct for survival, it will be profoundly evil. Animals also have this instinct. It follows that the fact of killing to survive is something accepted by consensus on Earth. This is the natural pattern of life and no one finds anything wrong with either animals or humans. This system bothers me deeply, it poses a real moral problem for me. It sucks, it's gratuitous violence and suffering for nothing. I know this is not a widespread opinion, but the fact that nature has allowed this thing, that it is normal for there to be prey and predators, deeply shocks me. It's abject, a nature that allows this mechanism to be set up in such a "normal and natural" way.


Regarding the second statement, I think I did not quite understand what you meant. I imagine it was all of the chance factors that allowed life to develop on Earth, that those factors are rare, and that in a sense it's not a mistake because the universe allows this. Is it the question of the beginning of life that leads you to say that it is not a mistake? Or is it the fact that the universe allows life so it's not a mistake? What is your reasoning on this? I'm interested!

You have to wonder if life could have any meaning. I think personal beliefs help to find an answer, but also in the universe. When we observe how it works, everything that happens there, it is undeniable that life remains a marginal phenomenon which in itself has no positive or negative consequences on the rest of the universe. The universe can and will destroy any form of life in a fraction of a second: an asteroid, a solar flare, ionizing rays, a black hole, the explosion of stars which is INEVITABLE. The end of life too: fighting for life to continue is a losing battle. Life is not made to survive in the universe, it does not have the capacity to do so. The universe ensures that life is rare, fragile, disappears at the slightest gust of wind, and that living species cannot develop their intelligence to understand it. Living species have a very short lifespan on the scale of the universe and will die out before they can develop and make interspace travel. They are destined to be distracted. The universe is inherently hostile to life. That in itself is what I think is a "mistake": a biological mechanism that arises when very specific conditions make one happy. It's just luck, it is useless and will never be used for anything. The universe doesn't care. And as life necessarily entails suffering and bad bets, this is a mistake that could have been avoided given the number of planets and totally uninhabitable areas. And precisely, when we look at the formation of the planet Earth, it was absolutely not made to inhabit life. When we look at the stages of the formation of the solar system and the planets, life should never have appeared there. It still appeared, but it would have saved us a lot of suffering if it hadn't. Would it have made any difference if we weren't there? I do not think so.


Concerning the third assertion on the non-existence of the universe, personally, I conceive it completely. This is really my existential question: why does something exist? Why would there be something instead of nothing? I completely materialize the absence of matter, of atoms, of nothingness. I do not understand why at this very moment I am writing on a planet but above all in a whole that exists. Why is there this state of existence, this set of matter? Existence is not something natural for me, and this since my birth, I am just not made for it. Even the fact of being conscious, of existing, of dreaming, of seeing, thinking, eating disturbs me, I have to return to nothingness, in any form of path because it is my place. I can't see myself waiting until I'm 80 to find her.
I believe that the only thing that really exists is the universe. It was therefore necessary for me to find out a little about this. There are multiple theories about the end of the universe. These are only guesses, and we will never really know what will happen to the universe, nor how it began because the human being will have disappeared a long time ago. One of them says that the universe will eventually disappear, because all matter will eventually disappear one day. And that there will be nothing, no more possibility of life, forever. This theory consists of a scenario. of Apocalypse for many people. Some tell me that they cannot conceive of such a situation. I find this theory wonderful and comforting. I hope it will turn out like this.

I'm not sure the answers are interesting, maybe I misunderstood where you were coming from. I hope my answers will be understandable, jh'ultise Google translator.

Yes, I think religion was a massive pillar in humanity's ability to withstand the horrors of many ages (as well as justify many atrocities...but that's another story!) Very interesting, your take that the modern world has inherent meaning. I personally see all of your examples as instances of personal/constructed meaning, but maybe when you don't have the cognitive inclination to reflect on these kinds of things, you just think constructed meaning is inherent. Like, if I lived in some Scottish village a thousand years ago, I might not wonder whether being good at throwing a giant log really far was meaningful in and of itself; as far as my world is concerned, it just is meaningful, so I better get good at it and I'll feel bad if I don't!

On the second point, yes, you more or less have it right. But as I tried to make a point of noting, this is just my approach to what I imagine people who says these kinds of things might truly mean, so it could be totally off-base. As a side note: maybe it was the translator, but you say the very kind of thing I'm wondering about: "the fact of killing to survive is...the natural pattern of life...It sucks, it's gratuitous violence and suffering for nothing." Precisely this kind of perspective! What do people mean by statements like this? I too am disturbed by the seemingly inherent malevolence of existence, but to say "it sucks" and it's "suffering for nothing", well...how can an apparent fundamental attribute of existence suck, or be for nothing vs. something? If I rehash my earlier example of gravity and just swap the terms, doesn't it seem weird? "Gravity sucks", "gravity is pointless", etc. If gravity didn't exist, the state of the universe as we know/perceive it would be totally off the rails...doesn't it follow for something similar, like the need to consume in order to live, even if at the expense of other lives? I mean, it's (probably) not like certain laws of nature were written by benevolent spirits and others by evil ones...unless you believe in that kind of thing, which takes us back to the religion piece, haha.

 

[eldiablo666]

The only reason why people breed new life into this place is because they want to create their meaning of life.

It's the most selfish action you can ever think of.
It's the highest form of evil.

Yet society is constructed to view things differently. We're taught to think having a baby is normal. Of coarse, we are also animals so our instincts are embedded in us as well but if you ask me we can force ourselves out of this instinct to procreate
Most of us are brainwashed. I'd say all are, more or less.

And yes OP. I'd say we are all delusional.

 

[Maudlin]

"under what set of circumstances would or could suffering have a "point"?"

Suffering can make you stronger, better, faster... and show you the error of your ways when you refuse to take the word of another, more experienced and knowledgeable individual... or such an individual doesn't exist for you.

Suffering is not defeat, no matter what "The Wide World of Sports", or any "authority" says:



That is spectacular failure. That hurt. Why suffer like that? Well, to excel. Look what he did earlier... and later:



And shortly after, his entire country became a hellish nightmare more remembered for land mines, mass graves and war crimes than the beauty of the landscapes he painted so exquisitely.

Vinko Bogataj has cause to become an intrusive thought, if I've ever seen it. Lol.

You choose the point that your suffering makes, if any... or, you don't. Vinko is still alive. I'm sure he could tell you much about suffering.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Is it MORE delusional to think you're a precious, unique and massively important being or a nobody? We are all capable of convincing ourselves of either... Not to say you have to be that egotistical to feel your life has meaning but still- it's the stories we tell ourselves I suppose. It's kind of hard to 'prove' anything.

As to whether there is an 'inherent' meaning to life- I'm not sure- that feels fairly reliant on a belief in religion which is going to vary person to person.

A life itself (a birth) presumably has value to its parents (so long as it was wanted) but value isn't the same as meaning. I guess that child may give its parents life 'meaning' if they always wanted children and do their best to raise it. Still- that child then needs to find their own purpose in life. It's hard to live exclusively for others- especially if you are unhappy (as we all know).

I would say 'purpose'/ 'meaning' is quite often 'goal' defined- 'I want to become a doctor/ astronaut/ I want to be rich and famous/ I want to get to heaven. As a race, we're not always that good at enjoying the journey. Quite the opposite sometimes because a lot of us struggle in life. I think there is this hope though that we will be rewarded if we just keep striving through to achieve our goals/ be a 'good' person. Trouble is- I think we can ALL see that the system isn't fair. We DON'T all attain our goals, we're not always rewarded for trying hard and being a 'good' person- in fact, some of those that cheat and treat others terribly get ahead in life. We don't even KNOW whether there is a God judging what we do- who will ultimately reward us if we have been 'good'.

For those who believe in reincarnation- if the 'meaning'/ 'purpose' behind it is to become some superior being- we don't know what that is and we don't know WHY we are trying to attain this. Both on earth and in heaven- it's a whole bunch of work for a whole lot of unknowns. Is it really any wonder people start to feel like everything is meaningless when nothing but death and taxes are certain and the 'system' seems unfair?

I don't feel like it's even possible to say for certain whether existence in any form has a deeper meaning or purpose- that again depends largely on belief rather than fact. I would however like to think about things that are (debatably) uniquely human- our ego/ consciousness/ self awareness and how we sit as a species within the world. I don't think we can decide on whether any life has 'meaning', although I do think we can say whether a being brings value to the world as a whole.

I have this suspicion that finding 'meaning'/ 'purpose' and believing that we ARE valuable could well be just another survival mechanism. Not to degrade animals but I doubt many of them contemplate whether their lives have meaning. Many seem driven by their primal instincts to survive and reproduce. Not to say they don't feel emotion but I doubt many have existential crises. So- do THEIR lives have meaning/ purpose if they don't necessarily 'think' like we do? I would say some of us would instinctively say 'yes' because they make up the larger picture of the world's ecosystem. There DOES seem to be a reason for animals to exist (even if that doesn't create an individual sense of 'meaning' to each of them). A large number of them exist to be eaten and sustain something higher up the food chain. They sit within the bigger picture of a living, sustainable planet.

I suppose that is the problem with humans though. The way I personally see it is- although we have come from nature, we largely sit outside of it. We try and bend it to our will. We simply don't 'fit' into the world's ecosystem anymore because we have overwhelmed it. Therefore, as a race that is supposed to sit within nature and the world we need to sustain us- we largely DON'T add value- or 'meaning' as a being that functions as part of a whole.

Even our 'achievements' that most certainly brought/ bring meaning to us individually and collectively most probably didn't do a whole lot of good for the planet as a whole- putting man on the moon, finding cures for diseases (thereby increasing life times, increasing population and continuing the strain on resources), the industrial revolution. All incredible feats but all at the expense of the natural world.

Yet, we are still bridled with the instinct to survive. Consider that in the world we have created- those of us lucky enough to live where the majority of our needs are met- we are fed, watered, kept warm and there aren't many predators roaming around to eat us. All of our efforts don't need to be focused on the bare bones of survival. Therefore, I wonder whether all this 'effort' goes into our over-inflamed egos. We still instinctively 'need' to stay alive. If physically this isn't so difficult, perhaps we reinforce this drive mentally- 'I HAVE to stay alive because I am unique and special and my life is important.' This I guess is the positive REASON I see behind us having evolved egos.

What I do find fascinating though is how and why we can also tell ourselves the reverse- 'My life isn't precious and has no meaning.' That truly fascinates me because it is at odds with the natural instinct to want to survive. To be a complete pessimist- if the 'meaning' behind all 'this' is for the world to survive, and we can all agree that we have over populated it- perhaps it is 'better' that a number of us DO feel this negatively about it because it may lead us to A. Not reproduce and B. Possibly quit early.

I definitely can't get my head around 'the big bang' and all that. Too big for me to process. Still- I'm curious as to WHY there needs to even be attached an element of intention to this? Good or bad? Why can't it just be something that happened? A mistake implies it wasn't supposed to happen... Perhaps all of this just IS without any positive feeling or malice. Bit like gravity or evolution or any of the natural laws that govern us.

 

[Efilismislife]

Right

finding a meaning to your 'product of the brainwashed drive to breed' sometimes can be overrated

People want to feel they have a purpose/special so they feel better

And i do understand that as well. Everybody wants to be precious but i give up that false empty hope recently and just be real and see how the madness in this world as the way it is no sugarcoating

The only reason why people breed new life into this place is because they want to create their meaning of life.

It's the most selfish action you can ever think of.
It's the highest form of evil.

Yet society is constructed to view things differently. We're taught to think having a baby is normal. Of coarse, we are also animals so our instincts are embedded in us as well but if you ask me we can force ourselves out of this instinct to procreate
Most of us are brainwashed. I'd say all are, more or less.

And yes OP. I'd say we are all delusional.

 

[SamTam33]

We're like rocks. But with brains and egos.

And since we have brains, we have the ability to contemplate things. We conjure up things to contemplate. Like 'What is the meaning of life?'

But no one ever wonders what is the meaning of rocks or potatoes or quicksand. They just are. So are we.

But our egos tell us we must be here for a reason! Surely we can't just exist like rocks, potatoes and quicksand. Nahhhh. We have a greater purpose.

Yet after all these eons on earth, no one is able to say what it is.

At some point, we have to be cognizant enough to stop asking questions that have no answers.

E.g. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Why is that a question. Who cares what the answer is.

That's how I feel about people contemplating the meaning of life: it's just humans not knowing what else to do with their big brains, so they create riddles to mull over.

Pointless, useless, meaningless riddles.

Most people are just too damn stubborn and ruled by their egos to admit the randomness - therefore meaningless - of their existence.

Pardon my crudeness, but any man can come inside any woman, and a life is created.

Why the hell would anyone think there's "meaning" in those few seconds? It's just this thing that happens.

It's like assuming there's meaning in an itch.

... Even our 'achievements' that most certainly brought/ bring meaning to us individually and collectively most probably didn't do a whole lot of good for the planet as a whole- putting man on the moon, finding cures for diseases (thereby increasing life times, increasing population and continuing the strain on resources), the industrial revolution. All incredible feats but all at the expense of the natural world...

This right here.

So we created electricity and airplanes and iPhones. But it's because we needed/wanted that.

I guarantee the rest of the organisms on this planet could survive - infinitely - without those things.

It's like a blind person coming into your home uninvited, labeling everything in braille, then going on about how they "improved" your house (bonus: everyone who visits your home thereafter, leaves contemplating the MEANING of those improvements).

Huh? Whaaaat?

The blind person thinks they did something badass, but you know it wasn't needed.

That's how I see humans: unnecessarily existing and doing random shit, then asking other humans to find the greatness/meaning in it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

well...how can an apparent fundamental attribute of existence suck, or be for nothing vs. something?

I do agree- as a 'thing' it probably just 'is.' The 'problem' comes down to us being capable of thinking about it like this.

My major problem/ disgruntlement I have with life/ God/ whatever you choose to believe is: 'Why create a sentient being capable of experiencing intense physical and emotional pain and then dump them into a world like this?' Whether it was done intentionally by some omnipotent/ surely malevolent being or it just happened- THAT'S the part that 'sucks.'

 

[Pluto]

Silly as it may sound, we should start with defining the word 'meaning'. If it is synonymous with 'purpose', then the surprising conclusion is that statements about life's meaninglessness have to be correct.

If playing soccer, your purpose is to put the ball into the goal. And this is the very reason we invent sports, or religion for that matter. We like the idea of purpose. But life fundamentally means that we exist - nothing more. Existence is a self-validating basement of reality that cannot be denied - you know you exist regardless of the outcome of some messy intellectual debate.

But ideas about purpose are just that: ideas. Any idea you come up with will be impermanent and return to the dust from whence it came. All your sandcastles will be washed away by the tides. Accept impermanence and you are aligned with reality, and your suffering will reduce.

And yet, the intellectual contributions of the depressed philosophers on this site are corrupted by self-interest. The motivation might be manufacturing a belief system that makes suicide more psychologically comfortable (i.e. no afterlife, no reincarnation, no bigger picture, etc.), or it might be an attempt to make a depressed worldview appear enlightened. Non-depressed people are delusional, happy people are mistaken, people who have tasted immensely rich or profound experiences are lying, etc. In short: Life bad, death good. The harsh reality is that even this is just an idea and it too will pass.

 

[R. A.]

Cool, keep 'em comin' while we apparently continue to wait for the people who espouse these perspectives to show up and throw their lot in, haha.

"under what set of circumstances would or could suffering have a "point"?"

Suffering can make you stronger, better, faster... and show you the error of your ways when you refuse to take the word of another, more experienced and knowledgeable individual... or such an individual doesn't exist for you.

Suffering is not defeat, no matter what "The Wide World of Sports", or any "authority" says:



That is spectacular failure. That hurt. Why suffer like that? Well, to excel. Look what he did earlier... and later:



And shortly after, his entire country became a hellish nightmare more remembered for land mines, mass graves and war crimes than the beauty of the landscapes he painted so exquisitely.

Vinko Bogataj has cause to become an intrusive thought, if I've ever seen it. Lol.

You choose the point that your suffering makes, if any... or, you don't. Vinko is still alive. I'm sure he could tell you much about suffering.

I think oftentimes suffering ends up getting contextualized either only after its end, or when it has led to some obvious result, usually something positive. Things like debilitating chronic illness might be hard to fit into this schema, especially when it leads people to ctb. Hope to get some takes on this from others in this position...

Is it MORE delusional to think you're a precious, unique and massively important being or a nobody? We are all capable of convincing ourselves of either... Not to say you have to be that egotistical to feel your life has meaning but still- it's the stories we tell ourselves I suppose. It's kind of hard to 'prove' anything.

As to whether there is an 'inherent' meaning to life- I'm not sure- that feels fairly reliant on a belief in religion which is going to vary person to person.

A life itself (a birth) presumably has value to its parents (so long as it was wanted) but value isn't the same as meaning. I guess that child may give its parents life 'meaning' if they always wanted children and do their best to raise it. Still- that child then needs to find their own purpose in life. It's hard to live exclusively for others- especially if you are unhappy (as we all know).

I would say 'purpose'/ 'meaning' is quite often 'goal' defined- 'I want to become a doctor/ astronaut/ I want to be rich and famous/ I want to get to heaven. As a race, we're not always that good at enjoying the journey. Quite the opposite sometimes because a lot of us struggle in life. I think there is this hope though that we will be rewarded if we just keep striving through to achieve our goals/ be a 'good' person. Trouble is- I think we can ALL see that the system isn't fair. We DON'T all attain our goals, we're not always rewarded for trying hard and being a 'good' person- in fact, some of those that cheat and treat others terribly get ahead in life. We don't even KNOW whether there is a God judging what we do- who will ultimately reward us if we have been 'good'.

For those who believe in reincarnation- if the 'meaning'/ 'purpose' behind it is to become some superior being- we don't know what that is and we don't know WHY we are trying to attain this. Both on earth and in heaven- it's a whole bunch of work for a whole lot of unknowns. Is it really any wonder people start to feel like everything is meaningless when nothing but death and taxes are certain and the 'system' seems unfair?

I don't feel like it's even possible to say for certain whether existence in any form has a deeper meaning or purpose- that again depends largely on belief rather than fact. I would however like to think about things that are (debatably) uniquely human- our ego/ consciousness/ self awareness and how we sit as a species within the world. I don't think we can decide on whether any life has 'meaning', although I do think we can say whether a being brings value to the world as a whole.

I have this suspicion that finding 'meaning'/ 'purpose' and believing that we ARE valuable could well be just another survival mechanism. Not to degrade animals but I doubt many of them contemplate whether their lives have meaning. Many seem driven by their primal instincts to survive and reproduce. Not to say they don't feel emotion but I doubt many have existential crises. So- do THEIR lives have meaning/ purpose if they don't necessarily 'think' like we do? I would say some of us would instinctively say 'yes' because they make up the larger picture of the world's ecosystem. There DOES seem to be a reason for animals to exist (even if that doesn't create an individual sense of 'meaning' to each of them). A large number of them exist to be eaten and sustain something higher up the food chain. They sit within the bigger picture of a living, sustainable planet.

I suppose that is the problem with humans though. The way I personally see it is- although we have come from nature, we largely sit outside of it. We try and bend it to our will. We simply don't 'fit' into the world's ecosystem anymore because we have overwhelmed it. Therefore, as a race that is supposed to sit within nature and the world we need to sustain us- we largely DON'T add value- or 'meaning' as a being that functions as part of a whole.

Even our 'achievements' that most certainly brought/ bring meaning to us individually and collectively most probably didn't do a whole lot of good for the planet as a whole- putting man on the moon, finding cures for diseases (thereby increasing life times, increasing population and continuing the strain on resources), the industrial revolution. All incredible feats but all at the expense of the natural world.

Yet, we are still bridled with the instinct to survive. Consider that in the world we have created- those of us lucky enough to live where the majority of our needs are met- we are fed, watered, kept warm and there aren't many predators roaming around to eat us. All of our efforts don't need to be focused on the bare bones of survival. Therefore, I wonder whether all this 'effort' goes into our over-inflamed egos. We still instinctively 'need' to stay alive. If physically this isn't so difficult, perhaps we reinforce this drive mentally- 'I HAVE to stay alive because I am unique and special and my life is important.' This I guess is the positive REASON I see behind us having evolved egos.

What I do find fascinating though is how and why we can also tell ourselves the reverse- 'My life isn't precious and has no meaning.' That truly fascinates me because it is at odds with the natural instinct to want to survive. To be a complete pessimist- if the 'meaning' behind all 'this' is for the world to survive, and we can all agree that we have over populated it- perhaps it is 'better' that a number of us DO feel this negatively about it because it may lead us to A. Not reproduce and B. Possibly quit early.

I definitely can't get my head around 'the big bang' and all that. Too big for me to process. Still- I'm curious as to WHY there needs to even be attached an element of intention to this? Good or bad? Why can't it just be something that happened? A mistake implies it wasn't supposed to happen... Perhaps all of this just IS without any positive feeling or malice. Bit like gravity or evolution or any of the natural laws that govern us.

Some good insights here. I often do enjoy your contributions, especially to my content!

We're like rocks. But with brains and egos.

And since we have brains, we have the ability to contemplate things. We conjure up things to contemplate. Like 'What is the meaning of life?'

But no one ever wonders what is the meaning of rocks or potatoes or quicksand. They just are. So are we.

But our egos tell us we must be here for a reason! Surely we can't just exist like rocks, potatoes and quicksand. Nahhhh. We have a greater purpose.

Yet after all these eons on earth, no one is able to say what it is.

At some point, we have to be cognizant enough to stop asking questions that have no answers.

E.g. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Why is that a question. Who cares what the answer is.

That's how I feel about people contemplating the meaning of life: it's just humans not knowing what else to do with their big brains, so they create riddles to mull over.

Pointless, useless, meaningless riddles.

Most people are just too damn stubborn and ruled by their egos to admit the randomness - therefore meaningless - of their existence.

Pardon my crudeness, but any man can come inside any woman, and a life is created.

Why the hell would anyone think there's "meaning" in those few seconds? It's just this thing that happens.

It's like assuming there's meaning in an itch.

This right here.

So we created electricity and airplanes and iPhones. But it's because we needed/wanted that.

I guarantee the rest of the organisms on this planet could survive - infinitely - without those things.

It's like a blind person coming into your home uninvited, labeling everything in braille, then going on about how they "improved" your house (bonus: everyone who visits your home thereafter, leaves contemplating the MEANING of those improvements).

Huh? Whaaaat?

The blind person thinks they did something badass, but you know it wasn't needed.

That's how I see humans: unnecessarily existing and doing random shit, then asking other humans to find the greatness/meaning in it.

I had a good chuckle from some of this. I've reworded parts of my initial post because I don't think I was hammering the proper point: what I often see isn't people dismissing or questioning the existence of the point of life so much as that of suffering. The former seems like a simpler thing to wrap a head around; hopefully the edited version brings out some more perspective into what I'm trying to figure out about these people's perspectives.

Silly as it may sound, we should start with defining the word 'meaning'. If it is synonymous with 'purpose', then the surprising conclusion is that statements about life's meaninglessness have to be correct.

If playing soccer, your purpose is to put the ball into the goal. And this is the very reason we invent sports, or religion for that matter. We like the idea of purpose. But life fundamentally means that we exist - nothing more. Existence is a self-validating basement of reality that cannot be denied - you know you exist regardless of the outcome of some messy intellectual debate.

But ideas about purpose are just that: ideas. Any idea you come up with will be impermanent and return to the dust from whence it came. All your sandcastles will be washed away by the tides. Accept impermanence and you are aligned with reality, and your suffering will reduce.

And yet, the intellectual contributions of the depressed philosophers on this site are corrupted by self-interest. The motivation might be manufacturing a belief system that makes suicide more psychologically comfortable (i.e. no afterlife, no reincarnation, no bigger picture, etc.), or it might be an attempt to make a depressed worldview appear enlightened. Non-depressed people are delusional, happy people are mistaken, people who have tasted immensely rich or profound experiences are lying, etc. In short: Life bad, death good. The harsh reality is that even this is just an idea and it too will pass.

I think this one gets it the most right so far, or at least is what I predict/project to be the case - especially your final paragraph. Anything between those fairly benign broad, sweeping, off the cuff and completely unsubstantiated remarks about life or the world being inherently bad, to some pretty disturbing megalomaniac-type shit about being in this moral position to obliterate life as we know it - it's all dust in the wind, dude. These are the kinds of users I am really hoping will turn up and throw their two cents in the pot...but please don't start a shitstorm if/when you do thanks

 

[WhatPowerIs]

I think this one gets it the most right so far, or at least is what I predict/project to be the case - especially your final paragraph. Anything between those fairly benign broad, sweeping, off the cuff and completely unsubstantiated remarks about life or the world being inherently bad, to some pretty disturbing megalomaniac-type shit about being in this moral position to obliterate life as we know it - it's all dust in the wind, dude. These are the kinds of users I am really hoping will turn up and throw their two cents in the pot...but please don't start a shitstorm if/when you do thanks

Was your thread inspired by the one thread in offtopic about obliterating all life?

 

[Forever Sleep]

We're like rocks. But with brains and egos.

And since we have brains, we have the ability to contemplate things. We conjure up things to contemplate. Like 'What is the meaning of life?'

But no one ever wonders what is the meaning of rocks or potatoes or quicksand. They just are. So are we.

But our egos tell us we must be here for a reason! Surely we can't just exist like rocks, potatoes and quicksand. Nahhhh. We have a greater purpose.

Yet after all these eons on earth, no one is able to say what it is.

At some point, we have to be cognizant enough to stop asking questions that have no answers.

E.g. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Why is that a question. Who cares what the answer is.

That's how I feel about people contemplating the meaning of life: it's just humans not knowing what else to do with their big brains, so they create riddles to mull over.

Pointless, useless, meaningless riddles.

Most people are just too damn stubborn and ruled by their egos to admit the randomness - therefore meaningless - of their existence.

Pardon my crudeness, but any man can come inside any woman, and a life is created.

Why the hell would anyone think there's "meaning" in those few seconds? It's just this thing that happens.

It's like assuming there's meaning in an itch.

This right here.

So we created electricity and airplanes and iPhones. But it's because we needed/wanted that.

I guarantee the rest of the organisms on this planet could survive - infinitely - without those things.

It's like a blind person coming into your home uninvited, labeling everything in braille, then going on about how they "improved" your house (bonus: everyone who visits your home thereafter, leaves contemplating the MEANING of those improvements).

Huh? Whaaaat?

The blind person thinks they did something badass, but you know it wasn't needed.

That's how I see humans: unnecessarily existing and doing random shit, then asking other humans to find the greatness/meaning in it.

I Love your humour. ... 'Rocks with brains and egos.' When I find myself getting too stressed about this or that, I like to try and humble myself in that ultimately we are all just 'stuff' sitting on a larger amount of 'stuff' floating around in an even bigger amount of 'stuff'. A tomato apparently has 7,000 more genes than a human being. WHY are WE so special? We just happened to end up the most dominant species I guess.

Thanks for the giggle. Loved the idea of my home being plastered in braille.

 

[Maudlin]

I Love your humour. ... 'Rocks with brains and egos.' When I find myself getting too stressed about this or that, I like to try and humble myself in that ultimately we are all just 'stuff' sitting on a larger amount of 'stuff' floating around in an even bigger amount of 'stuff'. A tomato apparently has 7,000 more genes than a human being. WHY are WE so special? We just happened to end up the most dominant species I guess.

Thanks for the giggle. Loved the idea of my home being plastered in braille.

That got me grinnin', too.

 

[R. A.]

Was your thread inspired by the one thread in offtopic about obliterating all life?

Haha, no, I wasn't thinking of that one when starting this but was in the section of text you quoted. These kinds of sentiments are just something I see pretty regularly, including from some fairly active users. Been turning the gears in my mind about it for a while. One such member I tried to converse with about it directly but was ignored, so thought this might work better. Though I think the only people who've replied so far are either in the same position as me, or have misunderstood my first post...well, sleep is finally winning over me so maybe come morning, all shall be revealed

 

[Efilismislife]

Exactly what i always say too

We're like rocks. But with brains and egos.

And since we have brains, we have the ability to contemplate things. We conjure up things to contemplate. Like 'What is the meaning of life?'

But no one ever wonders what is the meaning of rocks or potatoes or quicksand. They just are. So are we.

But our egos tell us we must be here for a reason! Surely we can't just exist like rocks, potatoes and quicksand. Nahhhh. We have a greater purpose.

Yet after all these eons on earth, no one is able to say what it is.

At some point, we have to be cognizant enough to stop asking questions that have no answers.

E.g. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?

Why is that a question. Who cares what the answer is.

That's how I feel about people contemplating the meaning of life: it's just humans not knowing what else to do with their big brains, so they create riddles to mull over.

Pointless, useless, meaningless riddles.

Most people are just too damn stubborn and ruled by their egos to admit the randomness - therefore meaningless - of their existence.

Pardon my crudeness, but any man can come inside any woman, and a life is created.

Why the hell would anyone think there's "meaning" in those few seconds? It's just this thing that happens.

It's like assuming there's meaning in an itch.

This right here.

So we created electricity and airplanes and iPhones. But it's because we needed/wanted that.

I guarantee the rest of the organisms on this planet could survive - infinitely - without those things.

It's like a blind person coming into your home uninvited, labeling everything in braille, then going on about how they "improved" your house (bonus: everyone who visits your home thereafter, leaves contemplating the MEANING of those improvements).

Huh? Whaaaat?

The blind person thinks they did something badass, but you know it wasn't needed.

That's how I see humans: unnecessarily existing and doing random shit, then asking other humans to find the greatness/meaning in it.

Silly as it may sound, we should start with defining the word 'meaning'. If it is synonymous with 'purpose', then the surprising conclusion is that statements about life's meaninglessness have to be correct.

If playing soccer, your purpose is to put the ball into the goal. And this is the very reason we invent sports, or religion for that matter. We like the idea of purpose. But life fundamentally means that we exist - nothing more. Existence is a self-validating basement of reality that cannot be denied - you know you exist regardless of the outcome of some messy intellectual debate.

But ideas about purpose are just that: ideas. Any idea you come up with will be impermanent and return to the dust from whence it came. All your sandcastles will be washed away by the tides. Accept impermanence and you are aligned with reality, and your suffering will reduce.

And yet, the intellectual contributions of the depressed philosophers on this site are corrupted by self-interest. The motivation might be manufacturing a belief system that makes suicide more psychologically comfortable (i.e. no afterlife, no reincarnation, no bigger picture, etc.), or it might be an attempt to make a depressed worldview appear enlightened. Non-depressed people are delusional, happy people are mistaken, people who have tasted immensely rich or profound experiences are lying, etc. In short: Life bad, death good. The harsh reality is that even this is just an idea and it too will pass.

 

[HermitLonerGuy]

Pardon my crudeness, but any man can come inside any woman, and a life is created.

lmao good stuff and 100% true.

No little Jimmy you dont exist because a glorious all powerful benevolent being created you. You exist because two horny people fucked and you were the lucky/unlucky sperm who won the race from your fathers balls into your mothers ovaries.

 

[Efilismislife]

lmao good stuff and 100% true.

No little Jimmy you dont exist because a glorious all powerful benevolent being created you. You exist because two horny people fucked and you were the lucky/unlucky sperm who won the race from your fathers balls into your mothers ovaries.

More like shot into the ovaries by the male and the female collect it

sperm cant just run on its own

 

[HermitLonerGuy]

View attachment 100488

More like shot into the ovaries by the male and the female collect it

sperm cant just run on its own

Lmao nice pic.

and also true about the family members thing, i experienced that first hand.

 

[FuneralCry]

That title is one of the worst examples of clickbait attention seeking that I have seen. A lot of people these days really do seem to be desperate for attention, I mean they must be if they resort to posting insulting things in order to get that. Saying that suicidal people are out of touch with reality just feeds into what the pro lifers think. It's unbelievable that someone posts a thread with a title like that on a forum filled with people suffering. One thing that is certain is all the pain that exists in this world is very real, and nobody can deny that.

 

[LucyB]

There is a point to the suffering. The point is to extract your energy and use it to power this world. We pay a light bill yet we power all the electricity in this world. Everything we pay for is powered or created from using the energy from our souls.. Yes we are slaves and our souls are asleep in the sky.. Yes the movie the matrix is a joke about our current situation. We are victims of a war on the highest level and it could be won quicker if people wake the fuck up and stop acting like this stupid shit we do in here is normal. None of this dumb shit exists in the real world

no grouping people together based on their skin color, no politics, no dumb ass religions, no prisons, no bitch nigga squads they call the police, no army, no countries, no money, no sickness, no disabilities, no reproducing from having sex, no jobs you have to work to survive and people don't die. All of that evil shit was created to make us suffer and keep us distracted and divided.

The song "roe your boat life us but a dream" is about us. We are the stars in the sky. Those balls of light are individual souls that power this whole world.. Money is only a tool used to enslave people.. We are the real "money" because our souls can create and power whole worlds. Certainly yall don't believe that dumb shit called NASA.

Listen to the song "Jump in the air and stay there" by eyrkah Badu. It says "We on the ceiling stuck, like a hand full of bucks, like a fan full of dust". We are the "bucks" (the money) and the "dust" is our energy. "This little light of mine I'm going to let it shine" is talking about our light (our soul) or our star in the sky. This is why you "wish" on a star. The song "we are like diamonds in the sky" is also about us. And the "Chem trails" everyone talking about are souls "catching the bus" as yall say. You die and you start over right back in here until this unfair ass war is won.

 

[Lawliet]

i'm not reading all that, get better

 

[R. A.]

@FuneralCry I was hoping you'd drop in - sorry to see you bothered by the post. From what you wrote, I don't know if you actually read it...I called myself out on the ridiculous title right away in that large, underlined text, and go on to explain the reason and intention. I'm not seriously insulting anyone, least of all for being suicidal. If this is still bad form then I encourage mods to rename and/or move the thread maybe to off-topic.

The point of the post is to try and get some insight into what exactly people mean when they say the kinds of things I wrote about in the first main paragraphs. I've seen you yourself write statements like this, and part of my own desire to understand and come to terms with my own suicidality is questioning these kinds of thoughts and assertions, some of which I have to a degree myself. You're probably one of the most active members here; you seem to be a good soul and are always leaving people kind, validating comments. Tthough I also seem to recall you saying confusingly enough that you personally gain nothing from being on this site, you're an interesting one to me and I'd be happy to hear your more detailed explanation of this opinion you have.