Weren't liberals right in most of their predictions of what Trump will do in his second term?

[noname223]

I was dead wrong in my prediction of who would win the 2024 election. I could not imagine that Americans would fall for the propaganda of the Trump campaign. I blame it on the poisonous US media ecosystem. The irony is: financially the average American who voted for Trump will suffer the most from his policies. He takes it from the poor and gives it to the rich.

I cannot imagine people fall for the both sides are bad approach at the current date. Trump isn't like Clinton, Obama, Bush, Romney, McCain. He is way worse. Okay in contrast to Bush he has not invaded a foreign country yet. But he loves to drop bomb on foreign countries because in his logic it proves America's hard power. While totally ignoring the fading American soft power. The real American superpower. Professors and gifted students from all over the world wanted to graduate at American universities - students paid extraordinary fees to get that opportunity. And now he cracks down on them. They said Hitler's gift to the US was to send all the extraordinarily talented, hard working educated Jews from the Third Reich to the US. He enabled the rise of the US as a global superpower. And now? Trump is ruining Americans biggest assets.

His tariff wars increase inflation, lead to higher unemployment and divides the US from its allies. His Russia politics is erratic. He postures as strong man, sometimes as a mad man but we all know TACO. (Trump always chickens out.) In the shortrun he might be able to hide the cracks for some time. Pressuring media to report less critically, suppressing reports about the decline of the US economy, playing culture war gamse to distract from his successful attempt to erode US democracy. The US is on its way to a competitive authoritarian regime. I was pretty right with this prediction. And we all tried to warn them. Project 2025 was his agenda all along and he was obviously in on it. Trump was greedy for revenge. Trump's motives were out in the open after what happened at January 6th. His attempts to hold on office after losing an election revealed his true nature.

Trump is not a puppet. He makes policies for his billionaire friends and they make his life easier. They support him in his corruption, to get richer while robbing the middle class and the bottom of society. They play divide and conquer. Blame the homeless people and foreigners while running out of the bank with all the money and it works. They are not dumb not at all. Trump has smart but also evil people around him. The thing is they don't give a fuck about the future of the country. They accelerate America's downfall. And they could not care less about it. Trump wants that people cuddle his ball sack because he is a narcissistic asshole with a very fragile ego. In fact he is a pathetic person but he has charisma, knows how to read the room and the Americans are susceptible for his without any doubts big talent as a showman. J.D. Vance is different he is way worse. Trump is SA but Vance is SS. I never trusted him. The former critics who turn into sycophants are the worst ideologues. Vance is a talented liar, has good connections to the far right and right-wing extremists. Noone stops them because the rich profit of him. As long as they kiss his ass and get subsidies and government contracts everything is fine for them. There is a counterelite that has now become the deep state deeply entrenched in the security apparatus of the US. They rob the US from within. They ruin the US and all we can do is watch like a fucking TV drama.

Well his connections to Epstein? Ockham's razor. Connect the evidence we have thus far. There you have it. In the end Epstein does not matter. The MAGA cult is that deep into it that noone cares. Truth as currency is long dead in the US. You need the agenda power, your allies in media. And well right wingers have that. Tech media supports them. Billionaires like Bezos buy newspapers to make Trump's life easier. Independent and swing voters are too naive to realize of what is happening. The assassination of Kirk is instrumentalized by the Trump regime in the perfect way. They use it to further their agenda while successfully painting the left as extremists. Is there anyone able to stop them? Chilling effects on critical news media companies. And then this American notion of free speech shared by many that flooding social media with alternative facts is seen as the highest deed in Democracy.

Americans think two much in this both side is horrible approach. The GOP is an extremist party. In Germany in scientific journals they make this assessment with no ambiguity. The GOP since 2021 left the democratic path. They already flirted with rigging the game in favor of them way earlier. And the DNC did that too on a lower scale. But Trump moved the goalpost with his attempt to hold on power after his lost election. This was the last warning. And "conservative" media preferred making money and pleasing their MAGA audience over showing some backbones.

 

[Dejected 55]

Trump is horrible. That's easy. Democrats said he was "evil" and would "ruin the country forever" and all that rhetoric... so what did they do? First they tried to run Biden again Weekend-at-Bernie's style when they had known for years he wasn't mentally up to it. I don't really like Biden, but I felt bad for him the way he was being used as someone clearly suffering from mental instability at that point.

Both times that Trump won, the Democrats primary strategy was "we aren't Trump" and "Trump is evil." That's no campaign. Okay, Trump is evil... so what are you proposing that is better? And what did Biden do while in office? Democrats like to keep saying how the Biden Presidency was great and accomplished a lot... but did it? I mean, how demonstrably better was the world actually?

Republicans are no better. As you note, Republican voters are getting screwed just as much as anyone. The problem is... each tribe unconditionally supports their side. It's funny, people argue with and insult me over believing in and wanting unconditional love in a romantic relationship... telling me it doesn't exist and I'm a fool or whatever.

BUT...

Republicans love their side for doing things they hate the other side for doing, even when they are getting screwed over in the process. Democratic voters are the same about their side too... That seems like unconditional tribal love doesn't it? Continue to vote for your side and cheer for your side even when it isn't demonstrably better than the other?

Arguably, the Republicans are more openly cruel and oppressive right now... so it's a relatively easy call to say a Democrat is "better" than that... but isn't that a low bar? I mean, yeah oppression and hate sucks ass... but if all the other side is offering you is not to do that... but you're still basically in a job you don't like but can't afford to quit and never enough money to live and depressed... I mean, most people on this forum have been depressed for a long time, across Democrat and Republican administrations... so... it's not like one side is trying to fix all the problems while the other doesn't fix anything.

Take abortion... feel however you feel about it... but Republicans promised for decades to overturn the Supreme Court decision, while Democrats promised to protect it. How did that turn out? Republicans eventually overturned it... but multiple Democratic administrations were in power at times and could have passed legislation to protect it... so why didn't they? Also... remember the Equal Rights Amendment? That passed but the states never ratified it, so it never became an Amendment as intended. Decades ago it was passed, but never ratified...

Democrats and Republicans need to be able to demonize the other, so neither side really wants to fix all the things. Both sides make promises they never intend to keep. It's all about staying in office... and you can see clear signs of members of both parties kind of wanting the same things and just pretending to fight about it. Look at votes in the House and Senate. IF one side knows a bill will pass (or fail), then some of their members can vote opposite their true feelings just to be able to go back home and say "I tried."

Then the people who get mad at "both sides" are also being manipulated. You're told "both sides" aren't equal... which is true, but it's not the point. Both sides are bad. One is worse, but both are bad. I don't like mushrooms... like AT ALL... so, you offer me a plate of mushrooms and a plate of rocks. Arguably the rocks are worse and inedible... but why are those my only choices? I don't need gourmet food even... but how about anything else that isn't rocks or mushrooms?

And each election, the Democrats tell you that you have to vote out "evil" and then things will get better... but they don't, and the pendulum swings the other way. A good part of why Trump got elected twice wasn't because his voters saw him as great. Sure, some do, and I don't understand why... but the bulk of people who voted for Trump were just duped by the fact that they already knew the other side wasn't helping them. Just like Biden won in the middle there because people wanted change. People keep voting for change, and then neither side actually gives change.

We could fix poverty and homelessness practically within one Presidency. There is more than enough food and we could provide homes for people who need them. But we don't. Abortion rights could have been protected... but they weren't. The current turn against LGBTQ+, especially transgender people, could have been better protected... but it wasn't.

Reagan got one thing right... he said the scariest thing was a knock at your door and you open to be greeted with, "I'm with the government and I'm here to help." Reagan didn't do much better in practice, but he had the sentiment right on that point. When a politician runs for office and tells you they will help you, history says we shouldn't believe it... no matter which side it is.

 

[Fe(IV)]

I mean, it was right there on the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025. It's just uglier in practice than on paper.

Honestly it's so sad for the current admin, and MAGA in general, fail on things we were previously proud of. Russia and the commies were a sworn enemy, and Canada were our best friends, and for no good reason those roles have flipped. 1st amendment speech has died off completely. The separation of powers is dead. The fact that there is a conspiracy, on both sides, that the polls were manipulated in the world's first democracy is tragic.

It's not alt- or conservative anymore, we're dealing with the regressive right now.

The overton window has shifted so much and public discourse isn't made for such swift measures. If TV showhosts are being deplatformed now, it's because up to this point they weren't saying enough.

Living across the globe, I wish I could help. But all I can do is lament what is becoming of a place I once aspired to go.

 

[Dejected 55]

The fact that there is a conspiracy, on both sides, that the polls were manipulated in the world's first democracy is tragic.

Athens, Greece was the world's first Democracy... somewhere around 500 B.C.

 

[Fe(IV)]

Athens, Greece was the world's first Democracy... somewhere around 500 B.C.

Oh yeah. But in terms of American propaganda/national pride they often claim to be the first. The constitution and declaration of independence and the founding fathers and all the mythos and lore are supposed to be part of this core identity of America, but now it's being cast to the wayside. I think it's sad, the death of their nation in those terms.

 

[Dejected 55]

Oh yeah. But in terms of American propaganda/national pride they often claim to be the first. The constitution and declaration of independence and the founding fathers and all the mythos and lore are supposed to be part of this core identity of America, but now it's being cast to the wayside. I think it's sad, the death of their nation in those terms.

We have always been full of shit internationally. I mean, our government lies to us too... but they tell the biggest whoppers on the international scene. I don't think anyone is buying it anymore, though, outside of the US. Only the rubes on both sides of the aisle in America still buy our government's rhetoric.

 

[mysideofthemountain]

OP - I don't know how much you know about religious authoritarianism in the U.S., but I think that the practice of religion in the US, specifically conservative and fundamentalist forms of Christianity, can explain a lot about how Trump was elected. Fundamentalist Christian religion in the U.S. has created a system in which the individuals who are part of it are often encouraged to act, vote, and live in ways that are contradictory to their overall wellbeing and the common good of their families and communities.


Intersection with other themes in this sub: a lot of the religious authoritarians in the US also advocate for parenting practices that can result in poor outcomes for adults who were children of authoritarian parents, especially mental health outcomes.

 

[Skallagrim]

I think, in may ways, Trump has exceeded even the most pessimistic of predictions. Trump wants Greenland , Canada, Panama, Nobel prize & Bagram in addition to Ethnically cleansed Gaza by any means, genocide & extermination of Palestinians. He is having comedians taken off the air for hurting his feelings, he is ready to declare anyone who stands against him an enemy of the state, and his obsession with putting tariffs on everything is starting to make countries see the USA as unstable.

He is driven by pure ego and narcissism. A policy position announced in the morning might become something completely different by lunch time.

That's not how this stuff works, and everything's starting to break - hence unrest, political violence, and increasing attempts to strong arm control of the narrative. Yet there are over 3 years of this left.

 

[Dejected 55]

From my perspective and observations... I've known some people who sincerely hold religious beliefs and follow them. I don't mean blindly follow them, they are questioning and seek to do the right thing and are open to new ideas. My point here is, I've known people sincere in their faith who do not wield it as a weapon.

But those people are very rare.

For most people here in the USA... religion is just another tribe/team they belong to. They may have been born into it, raised from birth, or maybe they sought it out and were adopted into it later. But religion, politics, sports, whatever... once you are on a team, it's ride or die... and your team can do no wrong and must be defended at all costs and contradictions, while other teams must be defeated and vilified and demonized at all costs.

That may or may not be true in the rest of the world, but it is absolutely true here. We talk of "cults" but the thing is... the religion you belong to is never a cult for you, but everyone else is in a cult... funny how that always works out that way in people's minds.

 

[R. A.]

it was right there on the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025

/thread

 

[sinfonia]

Yes, but they fail to see the bigger picture. Also I'm confused why you think JD Vance would be worse than Trump? He actually has a broad understanding of politics and knows what he's doing. He knows Trump is an asshole, but knows also that there is no way arounsd him for as long as he lives. In case Trump dies, he should at least be given a fair chance, in my opinion, regardless of how detestable one thinks he may be.