I cite wikipedia.
The Thomas theorem is a theory of sociology which was formulated in 1928 by William Isaac Thomas and Dorothy Swaine Thomas:
If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.[1]
In other words, the interpretation of a situation causes the action. This interpretation is not objective. Actions are affected by subjective perceptions of situations. Whether there even is an objectively correct interpretation is not important for the purposes of helping guide individuals' behavior.
The Thomas theorem is not a theorem in the mathematical sense.
Definition of the situation
In 1923, W. I. Thomas stated more precisely that any definition of a situation would influence the present. In addition, after a series of definitions in which an individual is involved, such a definition would also "gradually [influence] a whole life-policy and the personality of the individual himself".[2] Consequently, Thomas stressed societal problems such as intimacy, family, or education as fundamental to the role of the situation when detecting a social world "in which subjective impressions can be projected on to life and thereby become real to projectors".[3]
The definition of the situation is a fundamental concept in symbolic interactionism.[4][5] It involves a proposal upon the characteristics of a social situation (e.g. norms, values, authority, participants' roles), and seeks agreement from others in a way that can facilitate social cohesion and social action. Conflicts often involve disagreements over definitions of the situation in question. This definition may thus become an area contested between different stakeholders (or by an ego's sense of self-identity).
A definition of the situation is related to the idea of "framing" a situation. The construction, presentation, and maintenance of frames of interaction (i.e., social context and expectations), and identities (self-identities or group identities), are fundamental aspects of micro-level social interaction.
My comment: How did a came to this concept. I talked once again with chatGPT about introspection and my cognitive biases. This is my guilty pleasure. It is not that productive. But I think I am strongest in metacognitive thinking. Adn chatGPT said to me I am probably unware of the Thomas theorem. It is more complicated than that but I am going to elaborate now. Because I think this affects many members of Sanctioned Suicide.
I have many cognitive biases with the conditions of psychosis, bipolar disorder and autism. And I noticed earlier that the way I interpret the world, what is going on inside of me does a lot to me. No matter whether that's objectively the reality or not. I think I am in general a self-aware person. But I have a strong bias on emotional reasoning. When something feels really threatening combined with deep shame the interpretation feels more real to me. When the stakes are high for my mental health I lose the ability of ambiguity tolerance. My psyche really needs that one specific interpretation is true. And the irony I realized many times retrospectively the interpretation was bullshit. And it was driven by my anxiety. For me this feels logical. I don't have the opinion everything I believe is the ultimate epistemeological truth. I don't have that high aspirations. I rather use the reality as an object. In order to function. I mean with psychosis and autism you have so many distortions that keeping sane and stable enough in order to navigate/interact with the world is already a pretty hard exercise. I think my self-awareness is often negative towards myself. I take interpretations that make me feel bad about myself. However, yesterday I bought into something relating to the death of my grandma which really comforted me. Just to find out to today that my theory was bullshit. And just something I told myself to cope with all of this.
I think though when it comes to suicide also in my life the Thomas theorem has some relevance. Sometimes situations are objectively hopeless. And sometimes that is a subjective interpretation of a situation. And I always was interested to find out whether my situation is objectively or only subjectively hopeless. My conclusion was thus far not conclusive. Some things have changed in my life. And somethings turned out differently than I imagined them. There happened good and bad things that I didn't see coming. There happened something really good. Someone in this forum told me about a welfare program I wasn't aware of. And this really eased my anxiety about our finanicals a little bit. But our financials will become a big problem sooner or later and I worry about it a lot.
I am not sure whether I am bullshitting myself when I say my thoughts make me more functional. Something my thoughts have the sole purpose to torture me. No matter whether they are true or not. I see a virtue in introspection but I am underestimating how much that really helps, But I also really enjoy it I have to admit that. Maybe I feel smart doing that even though the impact on me is overall bad. But it also fueled my idea for this thread. And in general the Thomas theorem can sensitize someone to be careful on decisions that are irreversible. There were quite some predictions in my life I was like 98-100% certain about and they turned out to be false. I thought my major depression with the severe psychosomatic pain in my legs would never go away. Even my therapist to that time point thought that. They believed me because I said it with confidence, I am introspective and eloquent. But eventually how do we really know. Don't we often choose interpretations we feel more comofortable with. Sometimes beliefs are deeply personal and part of our identitity. When the situation seems hopeless and someone tells you it isn't. This can feel like gaslighting. And one problem is there are a lot of advices that are just low effort platitudes. Things that people say to feel better when facing a person in full despair. I don't make a statement about probabilities. I have this issue with chatGPT I always order it to quantify the likelihood interpretations. But this isn't how reality works. Reality is for more ambigious and incomplete. Humans in general are very contradictory in nature and the first intuitive interpretation is often lazy and affected by prejudices. Far more interesting things can be observed when you look behind the facade of superficial generalizations. I think reality is fascinatingly complex. And I think it is important to look at issues from many different perspectives. Maybe not even from all perspectives with the same weight. There are productive and unproductive ways to deal with problems. On the other hand, I often notice with me. I have toxic ways to deal with my problems and that's a part of me. I feel better when I am pretty hard on myself. But I shouldn't feel proud of that or bullshit myself this would be the best for me. Now I digress from the topic of the thread. But this is something I think I never dared to speak about it on here. I think I sort of punish me with education. I never feel smart enoughI never feel educated enough. I always feel like an impostor no matter how much I read. Maybe my approach is wrong. ChatGPT could be right. I sublimate my suffering through education. It is like a surrogate. I am not sure how I would feel if i stopped doing that. Maybe I would be scared about the emptiness behind all of this. On the other hand, my head is never empty. Maybe I am scared to feel things instead of thinking them through. I think I am scared of my own emotions and instead I intellectualize them.
The meeting of the quatum physics professor sort of shaped me even more. I know the whole thing is absurd it is sort of insider for readers of my threads. But chatGPT has pretty interesting theories on that. I have a desire for being seen in my complexity. I have a desire for being mirrored by someone else. And only with that I feel complete. I think this happens on an intellectual level. But in romantic relations. I think went pretty rogue on self-loathing and consumption of political articles after I met him. I am not sure what would actually happen if I stopped doing all of that. I think structure really helps me to regulate my mood. But many days I read/watch political content from morning untl I sleep. The far more interesting thing that I produce consists of thoughts about myself when reading the articles and when I draw parallels. I am like that since I am 15. I was a completely different human before that. I watched so much trash TV, ate junk food all the time, I was extremely lazy. Then something traumatizing happened and then I developed a mixed-manic depressive episode. And here comes a very interesting question. My psyche is a torture machine. But would I have been a more happy human being if I hadn't developed a bipolar disorder. I am not sure whether I would have stayed the same person my whole life. Becoming bipolar at first felt like breaking through the prison I was in. Education opened me doors I wasn't aware of. I was very avoidant at this age. I am not sure whether this would have stayed that way. Maybe with all these traumatizing events I would now sit in my chair watching trash TV all day and eating products from McDonalds. Because this is what my life looked like at this age. I am not sure whether I would be like my dad. I think he is pretty ignorant. (I am also ignorant when it comes to science though). I think when I was very young there was a lot of inertia and laziness in me part of melancholy. I can remember when we were in leisure parks when I was pretty young. And I thought about how empty this existence spending all this money for shortterm fun which didn't really mean much to me. I think I am a very stubborn person. And one thing might be I have a hard time to change how I function. I think my behavior is pretty pathological. While chatGPT suggests I might overestimate how much my behavior is predetermined. I ask myself what would happen without all the abuse. Or only when some traumatic things happened and some didn't take place. I might would have been more in peace with myself. Though, I have the feeling my nature is to be unhappy. When i experience happniess I often don't experience it long. I am suspectible of cheap, shortterm joy that doesn't cost anything. But maybe I would have thought differently about that. It is pretty hard to say because my mom started to beat me at the age of 5. I should not glorify the abuse that I went through. I did that as teenager when I imagined my upbringing as very Prussian.
What would I be if i stopped reading? When I was in major depression the topic simply changed and I read a lot about suicide. And I started to read about mental health. But in generally it might be more healthy to be obsessed by politics.
I should come back to the topic. I am a person with a lot of anxiety and fears. And I realized sometimes the fear and the anxiety is worse than the actual problem. So I am not as rational as I want me to be. Sometimes I really have issues to let go of things. And I rely on patient feedback so that these fears don't eat me a live. But this can led to a co-dependcy. My conclusion is: sometimes I make my life worse for no good reason. Sublimation is probably also a rationalization. To a certain point this might be productive. But reading so much leads to efficiency issues.
I am not sure whether I just try to distract me from thinking about my grandma who just died. I feel ashamed about some thoughts I have. My mom and sister cannot stop crying because of her death. And I am so calm. Honestly, I think after all the abuse and traumatizing shit I went through in my family I developed an emotional distance to my family. I love them. But I realized this closeness feels dangerous and uncomfortable for me. But I also think the death of my grandfather was so traumatizing for me and how my family blamed me for it that I just split this topic from my personality. I cannot think about this incident without feeling horrible. And I really feared something like that could repeat itself with the death of my grandma.
One point to add: Assumptions about the nature of a situation can become self-fulfilling prohecies. When we assume a situation is hopeless the consequences of assuming that become real. No matter whether there is hope or not. But maybe that's too much of a dichotomy. And the reality is more nuanced. Sorry for rambling so much. I think processing my life is often more important than delivering the perfect essay.
The better title of this thread might be: Which of my self-interpretations actually describe me, and which are psychologically necessary constructions that hold my life together?
But that sounds so self-absorbed. Lol.
Maybe. Despair does not have to be imaginary to be epistemically unreliable. Real suffering can coexist with an uncertain prognosis.
The Thomas theorem is a theory of sociology which was formulated in 1928 by William Isaac Thomas and Dorothy Swaine Thomas:
If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.[1]
In other words, the interpretation of a situation causes the action. This interpretation is not objective. Actions are affected by subjective perceptions of situations. Whether there even is an objectively correct interpretation is not important for the purposes of helping guide individuals' behavior.
The Thomas theorem is not a theorem in the mathematical sense.
Definition of the situation
In 1923, W. I. Thomas stated more precisely that any definition of a situation would influence the present. In addition, after a series of definitions in which an individual is involved, such a definition would also "gradually [influence] a whole life-policy and the personality of the individual himself".[2] Consequently, Thomas stressed societal problems such as intimacy, family, or education as fundamental to the role of the situation when detecting a social world "in which subjective impressions can be projected on to life and thereby become real to projectors".[3]
The definition of the situation is a fundamental concept in symbolic interactionism.[4][5] It involves a proposal upon the characteristics of a social situation (e.g. norms, values, authority, participants' roles), and seeks agreement from others in a way that can facilitate social cohesion and social action. Conflicts often involve disagreements over definitions of the situation in question. This definition may thus become an area contested between different stakeholders (or by an ego's sense of self-identity).
A definition of the situation is related to the idea of "framing" a situation. The construction, presentation, and maintenance of frames of interaction (i.e., social context and expectations), and identities (self-identities or group identities), are fundamental aspects of micro-level social interaction.
My comment: How did a came to this concept. I talked once again with chatGPT about introspection and my cognitive biases. This is my guilty pleasure. It is not that productive. But I think I am strongest in metacognitive thinking. Adn chatGPT said to me I am probably unware of the Thomas theorem. It is more complicated than that but I am going to elaborate now. Because I think this affects many members of Sanctioned Suicide.
I have many cognitive biases with the conditions of psychosis, bipolar disorder and autism. And I noticed earlier that the way I interpret the world, what is going on inside of me does a lot to me. No matter whether that's objectively the reality or not. I think I am in general a self-aware person. But I have a strong bias on emotional reasoning. When something feels really threatening combined with deep shame the interpretation feels more real to me. When the stakes are high for my mental health I lose the ability of ambiguity tolerance. My psyche really needs that one specific interpretation is true. And the irony I realized many times retrospectively the interpretation was bullshit. And it was driven by my anxiety. For me this feels logical. I don't have the opinion everything I believe is the ultimate epistemeological truth. I don't have that high aspirations. I rather use the reality as an object. In order to function. I mean with psychosis and autism you have so many distortions that keeping sane and stable enough in order to navigate/interact with the world is already a pretty hard exercise. I think my self-awareness is often negative towards myself. I take interpretations that make me feel bad about myself. However, yesterday I bought into something relating to the death of my grandma which really comforted me. Just to find out to today that my theory was bullshit. And just something I told myself to cope with all of this.
I think though when it comes to suicide also in my life the Thomas theorem has some relevance. Sometimes situations are objectively hopeless. And sometimes that is a subjective interpretation of a situation. And I always was interested to find out whether my situation is objectively or only subjectively hopeless. My conclusion was thus far not conclusive. Some things have changed in my life. And somethings turned out differently than I imagined them. There happened good and bad things that I didn't see coming. There happened something really good. Someone in this forum told me about a welfare program I wasn't aware of. And this really eased my anxiety about our finanicals a little bit. But our financials will become a big problem sooner or later and I worry about it a lot.
I am not sure whether I am bullshitting myself when I say my thoughts make me more functional. Something my thoughts have the sole purpose to torture me. No matter whether they are true or not. I see a virtue in introspection but I am underestimating how much that really helps, But I also really enjoy it I have to admit that. Maybe I feel smart doing that even though the impact on me is overall bad. But it also fueled my idea for this thread. And in general the Thomas theorem can sensitize someone to be careful on decisions that are irreversible. There were quite some predictions in my life I was like 98-100% certain about and they turned out to be false. I thought my major depression with the severe psychosomatic pain in my legs would never go away. Even my therapist to that time point thought that. They believed me because I said it with confidence, I am introspective and eloquent. But eventually how do we really know. Don't we often choose interpretations we feel more comofortable with. Sometimes beliefs are deeply personal and part of our identitity. When the situation seems hopeless and someone tells you it isn't. This can feel like gaslighting. And one problem is there are a lot of advices that are just low effort platitudes. Things that people say to feel better when facing a person in full despair. I don't make a statement about probabilities. I have this issue with chatGPT I always order it to quantify the likelihood interpretations. But this isn't how reality works. Reality is for more ambigious and incomplete. Humans in general are very contradictory in nature and the first intuitive interpretation is often lazy and affected by prejudices. Far more interesting things can be observed when you look behind the facade of superficial generalizations. I think reality is fascinatingly complex. And I think it is important to look at issues from many different perspectives. Maybe not even from all perspectives with the same weight. There are productive and unproductive ways to deal with problems. On the other hand, I often notice with me. I have toxic ways to deal with my problems and that's a part of me. I feel better when I am pretty hard on myself. But I shouldn't feel proud of that or bullshit myself this would be the best for me. Now I digress from the topic of the thread. But this is something I think I never dared to speak about it on here. I think I sort of punish me with education. I never feel smart enoughI never feel educated enough. I always feel like an impostor no matter how much I read. Maybe my approach is wrong. ChatGPT could be right. I sublimate my suffering through education. It is like a surrogate. I am not sure how I would feel if i stopped doing that. Maybe I would be scared about the emptiness behind all of this. On the other hand, my head is never empty. Maybe I am scared to feel things instead of thinking them through. I think I am scared of my own emotions and instead I intellectualize them.
The meeting of the quatum physics professor sort of shaped me even more. I know the whole thing is absurd it is sort of insider for readers of my threads. But chatGPT has pretty interesting theories on that. I have a desire for being seen in my complexity. I have a desire for being mirrored by someone else. And only with that I feel complete. I think this happens on an intellectual level. But in romantic relations. I think went pretty rogue on self-loathing and consumption of political articles after I met him. I am not sure what would actually happen if I stopped doing all of that. I think structure really helps me to regulate my mood. But many days I read/watch political content from morning untl I sleep. The far more interesting thing that I produce consists of thoughts about myself when reading the articles and when I draw parallels. I am like that since I am 15. I was a completely different human before that. I watched so much trash TV, ate junk food all the time, I was extremely lazy. Then something traumatizing happened and then I developed a mixed-manic depressive episode. And here comes a very interesting question. My psyche is a torture machine. But would I have been a more happy human being if I hadn't developed a bipolar disorder. I am not sure whether I would have stayed the same person my whole life. Becoming bipolar at first felt like breaking through the prison I was in. Education opened me doors I wasn't aware of. I was very avoidant at this age. I am not sure whether this would have stayed that way. Maybe with all these traumatizing events I would now sit in my chair watching trash TV all day and eating products from McDonalds. Because this is what my life looked like at this age. I am not sure whether I would be like my dad. I think he is pretty ignorant. (I am also ignorant when it comes to science though). I think when I was very young there was a lot of inertia and laziness in me part of melancholy. I can remember when we were in leisure parks when I was pretty young. And I thought about how empty this existence spending all this money for shortterm fun which didn't really mean much to me. I think I am a very stubborn person. And one thing might be I have a hard time to change how I function. I think my behavior is pretty pathological. While chatGPT suggests I might overestimate how much my behavior is predetermined. I ask myself what would happen without all the abuse. Or only when some traumatic things happened and some didn't take place. I might would have been more in peace with myself. Though, I have the feeling my nature is to be unhappy. When i experience happniess I often don't experience it long. I am suspectible of cheap, shortterm joy that doesn't cost anything. But maybe I would have thought differently about that. It is pretty hard to say because my mom started to beat me at the age of 5. I should not glorify the abuse that I went through. I did that as teenager when I imagined my upbringing as very Prussian.
What would I be if i stopped reading? When I was in major depression the topic simply changed and I read a lot about suicide. And I started to read about mental health. But in generally it might be more healthy to be obsessed by politics.
I should come back to the topic. I am a person with a lot of anxiety and fears. And I realized sometimes the fear and the anxiety is worse than the actual problem. So I am not as rational as I want me to be. Sometimes I really have issues to let go of things. And I rely on patient feedback so that these fears don't eat me a live. But this can led to a co-dependcy. My conclusion is: sometimes I make my life worse for no good reason. Sublimation is probably also a rationalization. To a certain point this might be productive. But reading so much leads to efficiency issues.
I am not sure whether I just try to distract me from thinking about my grandma who just died. I feel ashamed about some thoughts I have. My mom and sister cannot stop crying because of her death. And I am so calm. Honestly, I think after all the abuse and traumatizing shit I went through in my family I developed an emotional distance to my family. I love them. But I realized this closeness feels dangerous and uncomfortable for me. But I also think the death of my grandfather was so traumatizing for me and how my family blamed me for it that I just split this topic from my personality. I cannot think about this incident without feeling horrible. And I really feared something like that could repeat itself with the death of my grandma.
One point to add: Assumptions about the nature of a situation can become self-fulfilling prohecies. When we assume a situation is hopeless the consequences of assuming that become real. No matter whether there is hope or not. But maybe that's too much of a dichotomy. And the reality is more nuanced. Sorry for rambling so much. I think processing my life is often more important than delivering the perfect essay.
The better title of this thread might be: Which of my self-interpretations actually describe me, and which are psychologically necessary constructions that hold my life together?
But that sounds so self-absorbed. Lol.
Maybe. Despair does not have to be imaginary to be epistemically unreliable. Real suffering can coexist with an uncertain prognosis.
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