The concept of "white privilige" is outdated and harmfull for meaningful progress.

[StateOfMind]

Maybe some time back it was more relevant but in the current zeitgeist I don't feel it applies as much.
We live in a globalized society dominated by capitalism and "growth".
It doesn't matter if you are black, white or blue, if you know how to play funny money games you'd probably get a pass from the "elites".

 

[KleinerWolf]

Privileges are such a wonderful thing.
Certainly does empower people.

 

[Good4Nothing]

The class war is coming.
I doubt I'll live to see it, though.

 

[epic]

What is your evidence for this ?

 

[StateOfMind]

What is your evidence for this ?

Off the top of my head the panama papers.

Panama Papers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Apart from that its mostly opinion.

 

[puppy9]

Damn this got me thinking. Class war is what the world needs. Billionaires should not exist.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

*drags soapbox to this thread*

I have white privilege and I'm aware of it. I have literally caught myself feeling the underlying unspoken belief, "How dare s/he treat me that way?! I'm white!" I didn't even know how privileged and normalized white was in mainstream Western culture until I went to Guatemala, stood out, and got stared at by indigenous people. Go walk around a neighborhood that is predominantly Latino or Black, visit local shops, see if you're at all noticed and looked at with suspicion, see if you become aware you're not automatically welcomed and treated with respect like you are in wypipo world. Or make up a super-qualified fake resume with a white-sounding male applicant name and female name, and ethnic-sounding male and female names, with slight variations in each resume so they're not identical, and see how many responses each version gets. Then come back and let's resume talking about progress.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

To me it's as simple as this, anyone who thinks they're more privileged over anyone else regardless of race, sex, color, creed, or religion, is wrong.

We're all created "inherently" equal, which is a crock of shit yes. But ultimately it's not about anything but the rich vs the poor. Everything else is a bread and circus act.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

*drags soapbox to this thread*

I didn't even know how privileged and normalized white was in mainstream Western culture until I went to Guatemala, stood out, and got stared at by indigenous people. Go walk around a neighborhood that is predominantly Latino or Black, visit local shops, see if you're at all noticed and looked at with suspicion, see if you become aware you're not automatically welcomed and treated with respect like you are in wypipo world.

People will stare at someone who looks different than other people in their surroundings, I do not see what does that have to do with privilege. Whites are the majority in Western culture, have been for centuries - what does that have to do with privilege and with white being normalized? White is the norm in the West, multicultural societies are a relatively new development. Also, I doubt that the Chinese feel guilt over Asian privilege when they encounter non-Asians in their country.

 

[epic]

Off the top of my head the panama papers.

Panama Papers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Apart from that its mostly opinion.

While there are many crony capitalist, not all rich people are cronies especially in law abiding countries. Our fight should be against crony capitalism not against "rich people" .
Rich people provide essential products or services to the society and people in return pay them money proportional to the value of their service. It is very easy to lose sight of the usefulness of the product/service to the society. Amazon,Facebook,Tesla,Microsoft have made Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg , Elon Musk , Bill Gates into billionaires but the world would be a poorer place without the revolution these companies have brought. I would rather have them get billions of dollars then not have these products at all.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

To me it's as simple as this, anyone who thinks they're more privileged over anyone else regardless of race, sex, color, creed, or religion, is wrong.

We're all created "inherently" equal, which is a crock of shit yes. But ultimately it's not about anything but the rich vs the poor. Everything else is a bread and circus act.

Yes, nobody can convince me that poor whites living in trailer parks in the US South are somehow privileged and have more opportunities than other ethnic groups, who can at least get into college thanks to affirmative action.

 

[Wayfaerer]

People will stare at someone who looks different than other people in their surroundings, I do not see what does that have to do with privilege. Whites are the majority in Western culture, have been for centuries - what does that have to do with privilege and with white being normalized? White is the norm in the West, multicultural societies are a relatively new development. Also, I doubt that the Chinese feel guilt over Asian privilege when they encounter non-Asians in their country.

The Chinese laugh behind our backs at our blind altruism (fkin stupidity).

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

People will stare at someone who looks different than other people in their surroundings, I do not see what does that have to do with privilege. Whites are the majority in Western culture, have been for centuries - what does that have to do with privilege and with white being normalized? White is the norm in the West, multicultural societies are a relatively new development. Also, I doubt that the Chinese feel guilt over Asian privilege when they encounter non-Asians in their country.

With the exception of albinism, lighter colored skin is given preference and therefore privilege in non-Caucasian cultures.

Yes, nobody can convince me that poor whites living in trailer parks in the US South are somehow privileged and have more opportunities than other ethnic groups, who can at least get into college thanks to affirmative action.

I've lived in the South. Indeed "trailer trash" is often given preference to educated people of color, because even on the periphery, they belong to the white group, and they can potentially be "cleaned up." People of color who get the jobs because of education do so because they strive to fit in the white world, but they never achieve full equality in pay or treatment. They have more financial advantages than the trailer folk, but that doesn't mean they don't still have real struggles in the work or social environment.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

With the exception of albinism, lighter colored skin is given preference and therefore privilege in non-Caucasian cultures.

Why is that, what do you think?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Why is that, what do you think?

I'm not interested in engaging with this question as I don't see how it applies to the discussion. It feels like a diversion from my point and potentially derailing.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

I've lived in the South. Indeed "trailer trash" is often given preference to educated people of color, because even on the periphery, they belong to the white group, and they can potentially be "cleaned up." People of color who get the jobs because of education do so because they strive to fit in the white world, but they never achieve full equality in pay or treatment. They have more financial advantages than the trailer folk, but that doesn't mean they don't still have real struggles in the work or social environment.

You are telling me that educated blacks get paid less for the same type of work that whites do? I find that really hard to believe.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

You are telling me that educated blacks get paid less for the same type of work that whites do?

Yes.

White women also get paid less than white men or non-white men when they have equal education and experience.

I find that really hard to believe.

Google Scholar as well as regular Google can help if you're interested in challenging your belief.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Maybe some time back it was more relevant but in the current zeitgeist I don't feel it applies as much.
We live in a globalized society dominated by capitalism and "growth".
It doesn't matter if you are black, white or blue, if you know how to play funny money games you'd probably get a pass from the "elites".

View attachment 48397

You are 100% correct.

I do a lot of work for people who happen to be Freemasons (been invited myself), and you'd be shocked what they get away with!

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I'd love to see some people of color engage in this conversation and talk about their lived experiences, rather than the whitesplaining (including my own) that's going on about whether or not they have equal social privilege and opportunity.

 

[ocd is bad]

I think it's a real thing but I'll admit that it makes me feel awful about myself.

 

[feast or famine]

It's willfully ignorant to think that white privilege doesn't exist.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I have white privilege and I'm aware of it. I have literally caught myself feeling the underlying unspoken belief, "How dare s/he treat me that way?! I'm white!" I didn't even know how privileged and normalized white was in mainstream Western culture until I went to Guatemala, stood out, and got stared at by indigenous people. Go walk around a neighborhood that is predominantly Latino or Black, visit local shops, see if you're at all noticed and looked at with suspicion, see if you become aware you're not automatically welcomed and treated with respect like you are in wypipo world.

People will stare at someone who looks different than other people in their surroundings, I do not see what does that have to do with privilege. Whites are the majority in Western culture, have been for centuries - what does that have to do with privilege and with white being normalized?

It has to do with the fact that I'm white and that I recognized I had internalized the normalized attitude of white privilege. I subconsciously thought I would automatically receive acceptance, respect and even deference wherever I go, because I came from a Western culture where white is dominant and therfore enjoys privilege and entitlement.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

It has to do with the fact that I'm white and that I recognized I had internalized the normalized attitude of white privilege. I subconsciously thought I would automatically receive acceptance, respect and even deference wherever I go, because I came from a Western culture where white is dominant and therfore enjoys privilege and entitlement.

Again, I do not see this having anything to do with privilege. I believe that people of all colors and ethnicities expect to receive acceptance and respect wherever they go. Are Guatemalans experiencing Guatemalan privilege when they visit Poland and people stare at them because they look different?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Again, I do not see this having anything to do with privilege. I believe that people of all colors and ethnicities expect to receive acceptance and respect wherever they go. Are Guatemalans experiencing Guatemalan privilege when they visit Poland and people stare at them because they look different?

You're focusing on the external setting and situation where I had the personal epiphany, not my internal setting and experience.

I recognized my subjective sense of entitlement and privilege based on being white, not the objective experience of standing out in a non-white culture. It was revelatory. Travel is often revelatory, whether visiting a different neighborhood or a different country.

What Guatemalans experience depends on their own internal subjectivity -- their perceptions and how they interpret them. They could experience standing out when they didn't in their own culture and interpret that in a variety of subjective or ostensibly objective ways, including offended superiority, cowed-down inferiority, pure objectivity, or any number of things I can't predict about another's internal experience.

I'm talking about what I myself as a white person internally experienced when I stood out in a non-white culture: I realized I had unrealistic expectations for how I would (should)be perceived and treated. Should implies a perspective of privilege or denial of privilege.

If you don't get what I'm saying, or insist I am wrong about it, I'm not going to continue to defend it. If you disagree with my perspective about my own experience and subsequent understanding of white privilege, okay.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

You're focusing on the external setting and situation where I had the personal epiphany, not my internal setting and experience.

I recognized my subjective sense of entitlement and privilege based on being white, not the objective experience of standing out in a non-white culture. It was revelatory. Travel is often revelatory, whether visiting a different neighborhood or a different country.

What Guatemalans experience depends on their own internal subjectivity -- their perceptions and how they interpret them. They could experience standing out when they didn't in their own culture and interpret that in a variety of subjective or ostensibly objective ways, including offended superiority, cowed-down inferiority, pure objectivity, or any number of things I can't predict about another's internal experience.

I'm talking about what I myself as a white person internally experienced when I stood out in a non-white culture: I realized I had unrealistic expectations for how I would (should)be perceived and treated. Should implies a perspective of privilege or denial of privilege.

If you don't get what I'm saying, or insist I am wrong about it, I'm not going to continue to defend it. If you disagree with my perspective about my own experience and subsequent understanding of white privilege, okay.

I do not think that your expectation to be treated with respect was a sign of privilege, nor that your expectation to be treated with respect was unrealistic; but that's just me. When I was in Marseille, I went to an ethnic kebab shop with a friend and we were served last. I thought that was a bit rude, but I understood that we were on a different turf.
I am not denying your personal experience, but the vocabulary you are using to describe and explain it is a product of liberal education, not something that would naturally come to mind. I think that white guilt is toxic, but that is just me. Take care.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I am not denying your personal experience, but the vocabulary you are using to describe and explain it is a product of liberal education, not something that would naturally come to mind.

Thank you for not denying my intimate internal experience, and for redefining it for me to help me understand that the thought that arose in my own mind didn't happen naturally, where it came from, what it actually represented, and that it was toxic to me. I wonder what toxicity caused me to think I could interpret my own self with any accuracy. Oh well, that's a subject for another thread. You take care, too.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

I definitely have white privilege ngl. Not always immediately obvious to me because I have only ever been myself, but when I compare my experiences to that of many black people it's pretty obvious there is some shit I just don't have to deal with.

 

[mahakaliSS_MahaDurga]

Thank you for not denying my intimate internal experience, and for redefining it for me to help me understand that the thought that arose in my own mind didn't happen naturally, where it came from, what it actually represented, and that it was toxic to me. I wonder what toxicity caused me to think I could interpret my own self with any accuracy. Oh well, that's a subject for another thread. You take care, too.

You're welcome, I am glad I could help you understand yourself better. I also think it would be more accurate to talk about white American privilege, since American experience in these matters is very different from European.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I also think it would be more accurate to talk about white American privilege, since American experience in these matters is very different from European.

I would tentatively hypothesize they have the same roots in imperialism, domination and colonialism, all stemming from senses of superiority and therefore entitlement to the property, land and bodies of non-white people.

Asian domination also exists, as evidenced by Chinese, Indian and Russian history, dominating other peoples sharing the same racial roots rather than other races. I include Russia in this as it's on the Asian continent. Arabs and Africans have also dominated and enslaved others who share their racial roots. Romans also enslaved Romans. Dominance stemming from perceived entitlement and superiority exists in many cultures, but white supremacy and domination over other races has become notably prevalent. One theory about how this happened is posited by Jared Diamond in Guns, Germs and Steel.

 

[StateOfMind]

I'd love to see some people of color engage in this conversation and talk about their lived experiences, rather than the whitesplaining (including my own) that's going on about whether or not they have equal social privilege and opportunity.

That's a fair point.
@death137 where are you?