Shame feels impossible to defeat

[TheCavernousDeep.]

I have my reasons for not wanting to kill myself, none of them have anything to do with my own happiness or desire for the future, but they're still very important to me, so I'm making something of an effort to try to live.

But the shame is just horrific. Has anyone ever beaten this? Truly? I despise myself for reasons that to me seem completely valid. My memories are dominated by guilt and regret. No one truly knows me cause if they did they'd hate me too. How is a person supposed to live with absolutely no pride in who they are?

Is this even winnable? Or am I gonna feel this way for the rest of my life?

 

[Celerity]

How old is the self-hatred? Have you carried this since you were a child?

 

[Kamaainakupua]

A recovery partner explained it to me like this: we feel guilty when we do something bad, but we feel shame when we think we ARE something bad. The path out is going to depend on the path in... as @Celerity pointed out, you have to find the root of the shame to start changing your perception.
I wish you luck, because my answer, for me, is still "I need more time"

(edit more: But you are in the right place to find answers. Many of us can help you since we have a wide variety of causes of shame here)
~higs~

 

[TheCavernousDeep.]

How old is the self-hatred? Have you carried this since you were a child?

My memory honestly isn't the greatest anymore but I've been depressed since the early part of my teenage years, and then a few years after that "I'm sad" turned into "I'm the problem."

I've honestly thought about it myself a lot and I just can't find any source for the shame or self hatred other than my own choices. I've been told before that people can repress memories or whatever, but I genuinely have a very supportive family and I'm genuinely a very privileged person. To me it really feels like the shame and self hatred came from just living my life and not really liking my own choices.

But idk. Maybe there are more environmental factors at play than I can see.

A recovery partner explained it to me like this: we feel guilty when we do something bad, but we feel shame when we think we ARE something bad. The path out is going to depend on the path in... as @Celerity pointed out, you have to find the root of the shame to start changing your perception.
I wish you luck, because my answer, for me, is still "I need more time"

(edit more: But you are in the right place to find answers. Many of us can help you since we have a wide variety of causes of shame here)
~higs~

Yeah I've heard that quote before about the difference between shame and guilt. Guilt is about choices but shame is about identity. I think my problem is I've felt guilty for so long, and I feel like I haven't changed or grown much, so it's become a part of my identity. It's like, how often can one person make the same mistake before they are that mistake?

I know that's not productive though. I need a growth mindset if I'm ever gonna move past this. It's just to me my shame is as real as the blue sky, if I ever forget it exists, all I need to do is look up. So it's very hard to shake. Thank you for your response though.

 

[Celerity]

My memory honestly isn't the greatest anymore but I've been depressed since the early part of my teenage years, and then a few years after that "I'm sad" turned into "I'm the problem."

I've honestly thought about it myself a lot and I just can't find any source for the shame or self hatred other than my own choices. I've been told before that people can repress memories or whatever, but I genuinely have a very supportive family and I'm genuinely a very privileged person. To me it really feels like the shame and self hatred came from just living my life and not really liking my own choices.

But idk. Maybe there are more environmental factors at play than I can see.

Yeah I've heard that quote before about the difference between shame and guilt. Guilt is about choices but shame is about identity. I think my problem is I've felt guilty for so long, and I feel like I haven't changed or grown much, so it's become a part of my identity. It's like, how often can one person make the same mistake before they are that mistake?

I know that's not productive though. I need a growth mindset if I'm ever gonna move past this. It's just to me my shame is as real as the blue sky, if I ever forget it exists, all I need to do is look up. So it's very hard to shake. Thank you for your response though.

Did you hurt other people? What do you believe deserves death?

 

[ipmanwc0]

I got mostly over some pretty bad shame but it definitely is a slow process it can take years

 

[pieberry]

I think the average person without anxious thoughts has the ability to move on and not let the guilt fester. You say your shame started in your early teenage years, and at that age, a bunch of people are bullies. They grow up, have a normal life, and no one cares or really judges them. I think you can grow beyond what your initial shame is. I'm not sure what it is, but don't operate under the basis of having some dark secret you need to atone for. Just try to fix it and be the best person you can be at the moment.

 

[TheCavernousDeep.]

Did you hurt other people? What do you believe deserves death?

Yes. I did hurt other people. And I don't think I deserve death. I deserve to suffer in this life that I've made for myself. My selfish desire for death is just because I want to escape my shame.

I got mostly over some pretty bad shame but it definitely is a slow process it can take years

How did you do it?

 

[OnMyLast Legs]

I feel the same way. My failures the bizarre things I've said torment me.

 

[TheCavernousDeep.]

I feel the same way. My failures the bizarre things I've said torment me.

It's a very lonely way to suffer. How can a person expect any sympathy when everything wrong in their life is their fault? Even getting mercy from myself feels impossible.

I get why people believe in a forgiving god. Sometimes it really feels like It would take some sort of absolute power to wash away the pain of my regrets. I'm sorry you're going through this too.

 

[Celerity]

Yes. I did hurt other people. And I don't think I deserve death. I deserve to suffer in this life that I've made for myself. My selfish desire for death is just because I want to escape my shame.

How did you do it?

I have dealt and continue to deal with a lot of shame for my anger issues. Learning why I have them and identifying when my anger was/is actually justified helped me a lot.

Have you been able to discuss this source of shame with an objective third party like a therapist? I know it can feel like you're just signing yourself up to rehash it and pour salt on the wound, but getting a different perspective can help.

I would also add that, after we have hurt someone, I believe we can only make amends and try to do better in the future. No amount of suffering on our part can really make up for what we have done. We can't take it back, and any schadenfreude our victim might derive from it often poisons them emotionally too.

However, I respect that you may have a different view of shame and of justice or, if you agree, that internalizing this is easier said than done. You can think something is true all you want, but it's a whole different ballgame to feel it to be true.

I would like to share a guided meditation I have found helpful in the past. Like all meditation guides, Tara Brach is an acquired taste, but I find her to generally be short on woo.

Please try to remember that you are not doing more wrong by the people you hurt by doing this. If done well and for long enough, you may also avoid doing more harm in the future.



I hope this was of some help and, if not, that you are able to somehow make more peace with your shame via other means. It's a terrible thing to carry.

 

[TheCavernousDeep.]

I have dealt and continue to deal with a lot of shame for my anger issues. Learning why I have them and identifying when my anger was/is actually justified helped me a lot.

Have you been able to discuss this source of shame with an objective third party like a therapist? I know it can feel like you're just signing yourself up to rehash it and pour salt on the wound, but getting a different perspective can help.

I would also add that, after we have hurt someone, I believe we can only make amends and try to do better in the future. No amount of suffering on our part can really make up for what we have done. We can't take it back, and any schadenfreude our victim might derive from it often poisons them emotionally too.

However, I respect that you may have a different view of shame and of justice or, if you agree, that internalizing this is easier said than done. You can think something is true all you want, but it's a whole different ballgame to feel it to be true.

I would like to share a guided meditation I have found helpful in the past. Like all meditation guides, Tara Brach is an acquired taste, but I find her to generally be short on woo.

Please try to remember that you are not doing more wrong by the people you hurt by doing this. If done well and for long enough, you may also avoid doing more harm in the future.



I hope this was of some help and, if not, that you are able to somehow make more peace with your shame via other means. It's a terrible thing to carry.

I never replied to this but it was some help.

I definitely think mindfulness could be useful to me. I've actually taken some mindfulness courses but unfortunately I'm very ADHD brain, so it's hard to like, sit still with my own thoughts. But I do think it would be helpful for the moments where my self hated spikes.

For the longer term passive self hatred, it is very hard to overcome. Deep in my heart, I agree with you. Personally I also I don't believe in revenge. But so often I feel like I'm trying to take revenge against myself on behalf of other people or even on behalf of myself. I don't know where this disconnect comes from but it's there and somehow in my head it's totally consistent.

Idk. I have really had a hard time finding a therapist I click with. I do think it would be helpful.

Thank you for your message. Maybe things will get better. This week has been okay. I hope your week is okay too

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