Venting Scared of rebirth

[rotting_plum]

Im so scared of being reborn. I believe after death is just nothingness, so feelings, no conscience, just like sleeping. But what if I get reborn? Are any of you also scared about it?

 

[BlendedHeart]

Same here. Terrified of any type of afterlife: Reincarnation, another plane of existence, eternal return, ghost.

It always can get worse.

 

[searchingforpeace]

I say worry about being reborn when it happens It's just a theoretical concept

 

[Macedonian1987]

I lately read a lot of new-age spiritualistic texts and if I have a choice, I would choose to be reborn on an easier planet. Easier planets than earth offer slower soul-growth, but much less suffering than earth.

 

[metfan647]

You might meet Satan in hell who disembowels you then sodomises you with his fork.

Just gotta roll the dice man.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I don't believe in any of that

There's not a single piece of evidence for that nor for any afterlife reincarnation etc

I'm just my particular brain

I'm sure I'm just a brain like that in a ape monkey dog cat or mouse. Once my brain dies it can never create the torture of unbearable pain again

After Death is Non-existence forever the ultimate bliss

These animals have a similar self model an can suffer excruciating pain

Also crows , birds fish

Even insects can learn

Rebirth or reincarnation is like saying this computer is running a program like gta or a vr game from first person, with an ai model. Now i shoot the computer and its destroyed. But magically the same program will transfer to some other computer. How why for what reason?

all i am is software , a programs , running on an animal brain or an ape brain.

but its an extreme horror this brain can cause me unending constant unbearable pain .

 

[Hollowman]

Don't worry there's no such thing.

 

[Endlichkeit]

Following my experiences with psychedelics and my studies of quantum foundations, the philosophy of mind, and nondualism, I began to suspect increasingly strongly that consciousness is fundamental. It seems that there is nothing beyond it, no external world. Perhaps consciousness is existence itself. In that case, permanent non-awareness might be unattainable. Consciousness could be like fire in that you can extinguish it in one place, but it will reappear somewhere else. From this perspective, there is no birth or death, just continuous streams of experience.

I came to this conclusion partly because science cannot explain qualia (subjective experience). Despite having such advanced theories as quantum field theory, there is nothing to be found about subjective experience in them. This is because they describe something within experience, but not experience itself.

However, I agree with Benatar's asymmetry argument. Nevertheless, non-existence is too good to be true. I also don't think it is possible to attain liberation from suffering or exit the cycle of rebirth as buddhism suggests. We will appear again and again, if it even makes sense to describe this in temporal terms, because time and space are also constructs of the mind.

This is actually what stops me from committing suicide. I don't claim that this is the absolute truth. I just find this worldview contains fewer contradictions than physicalism. However, I actually wish physicalism was true, and that permanent non-awareness for all living beings would be possible.

If you want to explore this idea in more depth, look up the following: hard problem of consciousness, vertiginous question, open individualism, nondualism.

 

[intr0verse]

Following my experiences with psychedelics and my studies of quantum foundations, the philosophy of mind, and nondualism, I began to suspect increasingly strongly that consciousness is fundamental. It seems that there is nothing beyond it, no external world. Perhaps consciousness is existence itself. In that case, permanent non-awareness might be unattainable. Consciousness could be like fire in that you can extinguish it in one place, but it will reappear somewhere else. From this perspective, there is no birth or death, just continuous streams of experience.

I came to this conclusion partly because science cannot explain qualia (subjective experience). Despite having such advanced theories as quantum field theory, there is nothing to be found about subjective experience in them. This is because they describe something within experience, but not experience itself.

However, I agree with Benatar's asymmetry argument. Nevertheless, non-existence is too good to be true. I also don't think it is possible to attain liberation from suffering or exit the cycle of rebirth as buddhism suggests. We will appear again and again, if it even makes sense to describe this in temporal terms, because time and space are also constructs of the mind.

This is actually what stops me from committing suicide. I don't claim that this is the absolute truth. I just find this worldview contains fewer contradictions than physicalism. However, I actually wish physicalism was true, and that permanent non-awareness for all living beings would be possible.

If you want to explore this idea in more depth, look up the following: hard problem of consciousness, vertiginous question, open individualism, nondualism.

When it comes to consciousness, which by the way is just a name we collectively give to all the brain's faculties, i always like to link videos of Anil Seth and the claustrum experiment:




I don't know about subjective experience, but maybe it's an illusion, not in the buddhist or non-dualism sense but simply an illusion created by the fact that the same brain which is gathering and registering data and then use it to navigate the world is connected to the same body through which it gathers all that data. I think that permanent non-awareness it's not only possible but is the most likely outcome upon the cessation of brain's activity.

 

[Endlichkeit]

When it comes to consciousness, which by the way is just a name we collectively give to all the brain's faculties, i always like to link videos of Anil Seth and the claustrum experiment:




I don't know about subjective experience, but maybe it's an illusion, not in the buddhist or non-dualism sense but simply an illusion created by the fact that the same brain which is gathering and registering data and then use it to navigate the world is connected to the same body through which it gathers all that data. I think that permanent non-awareness it's not only possible but is the most likely outcome upon the cessation of brain's activity.

Of course, there is a connection between the brain and consciousness, but it may be the opposite of what physicalism suggests (that the brain "generates" consciousness). Instead, the brain is a percept of consciousness, just like the rest of the body and the external world. The brain itself arises within consciousness, which observes its state (the state itself is experience). When this state changes, perception changes. External observers use the term "loss of consciousness", although consciousness cannot be lost because it is existence itself. All these experiments can also be interpreted within mind-based ontologies, neural correlates do not prove physicalism. On the other hand, physicalism does not explain how qualia arise from physical matter or what they are.

The biggest problem with illusionism is that the illusion of having qualia is a quale itself, meaning you end up back where you started.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

How can YOU, being WHO YOU ARE, be reborn when the creation of you took a very specific sperm from your father, that impregnated a very specific egg from your mother, EACH of them with very specific traits, and with each of them having to "mix" their DNA in a very specific way in order to create the YOU that IS YOU? Your mother and father are what created you. Even if reincarnation was a real thing, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to EVER be you again. Souls are a myth. You're made of cells and chemicals and your sense of self has come about through interaction with your environment.

 

[Endlichkeit]

How can YOU, being WHO YOU ARE, be reborn when the creation of you took a very specific sperm from your father, that impregnated a very specific egg from your mother, EACH of them with very specific traits, and with each of them having to "mix" their DNA in a very specific way in order to create the YOU that IS YOU? Your mother and father are what created you. Even if reincarnation was a real thing, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to EVER be you again. Souls are a myth. You're made of cells and chemicals and your sense of self has come about through interaction with your environment.

I understand rebirth more in a buddhist sense, where there is no separate self, no essence and no soul, only experience. It is this experience that is reborn. This is called the "mindstream" in buddhism.

 

[badatparties]

Even if reincarnation was real, your memory would be wiped, and you would be an entirely different person.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I understand rebirth more in a buddhist sense, where there is no separate self, no essence and no soul, only experience. It is this experience that is reborn. This is called the "mindstream" in buddhism.

Really, I don't know what "experience rebirth" means. I'm in the nothingness crowd. Nothing lives or continues on outside the body. Everybody is entitled to their own beliefs, though, no issue there.

 

[violetforever]

idk when it happened but something inside of me just kind of stopped fearing the possibilities. i pretty much trust in nothingness. my only fear now is not succeeding.

 

[liquid jen]

Sometimes it scares me, sometimes it makes me hopeful. I don't really know what i WANT after death and obviously have no clue what to expect. Even if rebirths DO happen...it's not like we'd know? No matter what happens after death we can't ever really know or perceive it in any meaningful way. That scares me. I wish I was never born at all.

 

[doomedbynarrative]

Man... If it's all true and we HAVE to be reborn, I want an extended break before that happens Like a one million light year long break! I deserve it after all I've been through! Just a wee little break before having to go back to anything anywhere.

 

[intr0verse]

Of course, there is a connection between the brain and consciousness, but it may be the opposite of what physicalism suggests (that the brain "generates" consciousness). Instead, the brain is a percept of consciousness, just like the rest of the body and the external world. The brain itself arises within consciousness, which observes its state (the state itself is experience). When this state changes, perception changes. External observers use the term "loss of consciousness", although consciousness cannot be lost because it is existence itself. All these experiments can also be interpreted within mind-based ontologies, neural correlates do not prove physicalism. On the other hand, physicalism does not explain how qualia arise from physical matter or what they are.

The biggest problem with illusionism is that the illusion of having qualia is a quale itself, meaning you end up back where you started.

It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Like, why pure, eternal all-that-is consciousness would really need to create the physicalism, the illusion of flesh, bodily fluids, bones, organs, etc? I think consciousness is not generated nor received...it's just a name, a concept.
Don't get me wrong, i have a great respect for buddhism but, especially the mahayana and vajrayana traditions, are mainly semantics and mental gymnastics arround definitions and concepts.

 

[jonoldak]

I don't think we'll get a second chance, even if we're reincarnated without any memory of our past lives :p

After that, there will be nothing, like a light bulb that has burned out, and it's not as terrible as it might seem.

 

[dragon.//]

Man... If it's all true and we HAVE to be reborn, I want an extended break before that happens Like a one million light year long break! I deserve it after all I've been through! Just a wee little break before having to go back to anything anywhere.

Even a trillion years would pass instantly from your point of view unfortunately

 

[OnMyLast Legs]

I'm scared of eternal recurrence too, but it's really no different from one life. You've already suffered infinity times and it didn't add up because memory got wiped every time. I definitely fear *this* painful self awareness continuing in hell or similar, but that seems so incredibly unlikely. Like I always say, Noah's Ark is part of that package along with all the other Biblical stuff. Unless some kind of theism is correct and the revealed religions just picked up on part of it, I guess.

 

[Ligottian]

Let's face it. I'm an atheist. But nobody can say for sure about post-death. Any more than we can say a drunk driver wont kill us the next time we leave our home.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

Materialistically I see myself as a collection of atoms forming a system. When I am cremated they will disperse into the environment and become apart of other organisms. Like a brief manifestation of the universe becoming aware, and then dispersing again into other things. Because of the law of conservation of matter the atoms that constitute me will always exist, just not in the same combination.

If your atoms go on to form a significant part of someone else, and those atoms are apart of a new system that is both creating and experiencing consciousness in that other person, I'd like to believe that a part of you continues on as other people, even if you're gone forever.

I still hope god exists though. It'd be sad if there was no meaning to it all.

 

[rabbitjack]

Following my experiences with psychedelics and my studies of quantum foundations, the philosophy of mind, and nondualism, I began to suspect increasingly strongly that consciousness is fundamental. It seems that there is nothing beyond it, no external world. Perhaps consciousness is existence itself. In that case, permanent non-awareness might be unattainable. Consciousness could be like fire in that you can extinguish it in one place, but it will reappear somewhere else. From this perspective, there is no birth or death, just continuous streams of experience.

I came to this conclusion partly because science cannot explain qualia (subjective experience). Despite having such advanced theories as quantum field theory, there is nothing to be found about subjective experience in them. This is because they describe something within experience, but not experience itself.

However, I agree with Benatar's asymmetry argument. Nevertheless, non-existence is too good to be true. I also don't think it is possible to attain liberation from suffering or exit the cycle of rebirth as buddhism suggests. We will appear again and again, if it even makes sense to describe this in temporal terms, because time and space are also constructs of the mind.

This is actually what stops me from committing suicide. I don't claim that this is the absolute truth. I just find this worldview contains fewer contradictions than physicalism. However, I actually wish physicalism was true, and that permanent non-awareness for all living beings would be possible.

If you want to explore this idea in more depth, look up the following: hard problem of consciousness, vertiginous question, open individualism, nondualism.

You seem to suggest that consciousness (subjective experience) is always there.

I would say deep sleep and unconsciousness are very similar to non-existence. So once again, non-existence is possible at death. Consciousness (subjective experience) is not absolute.

From a more theoretical perspective, if there is no constant subject/experiencer as he himself changes with experience, then how can it be said ultimately that anything is happening. For something to happen, it needs an experiencer. But if the experiencer is just an illusion, then we can say nothing is happening. And for those whose perception has fully penetrated the illusion of the experiencer, they are said to be liberated from subjective experience. So maybe it is possible to have non-existence.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I lately read a lot of new-age spiritualistic texts and if I have a choice, I would choose to be reborn on an easier planet. Easier planets than earth offer slower soul-growth, but much less suffering than earth.

I have to say I don't really believe much in soul-growth. I certainly used to, but I was disappointed by things I found out and realised. I'm more inclined now to think we are here as an ironic punishment for some kind of original sin. I do think there are probably many other dimensions though.

Man... If it's all true and we HAVE to be reborn, I want an extended break before that happens Like a one million light year long break! I deserve it after all I've been through! Just a wee little break before having to go back to anything anywhere.

Funnily enough I do believe that actually happens (getting a break and returning to heaven and home, chilling with God for a while and having a great time). But eventually you may have to come back here. That seems to be up to God though from my point of view (reincarnation is not guaranteed for all suicides, idk). And I don't think it's a particularly long break.

I hope and pray often not to reincarnate back here.

 

[Endlichkeit]

You seem to suggest that consciousness (subjective experience) is always there.

I would say deep sleep and unconsciousness are very similar to non-existence. So once again, non-existence is possible at death. Consciousness (subjective experience) is not absolute.

From a more theoretical perspective, if there is no constant subject/experiencer as he himself changes with experience, then how can it be said ultimately that anything is happening. For something to happen, it needs an experiencer. But if the experiencer is just an illusion, then we can say nothing is happening. And for those whose perception has fully penetrated the illusion of the experiencer, they are said to be liberated from subjective experience. So maybe it is possible to have non-existence.

If consciousness is fundamental, if it is existence itself, then it cannot not exist. We are merely processes within this global consciousness, operating "in parallel." When one process ceases (death), the others continue and new ones emerge. Each of us is a bundle of experiences that consciousness experiences, there is no solid personality or self. It's not that I have consciousness, rather, consciousness has me. I am the product of consciousness observing itself.
It's impossible to be liberated from experience because all that exists is experience.
However, I wonder if it can exist in a completely undifferentiated state, without dissociating into different subjects, such as me/you/animals etc. Perhaps these worlds are a kind of symmetry break of that undifferentiated state. In other words, for something to exist, it must be divided into limited/bounded subjects. These subjects act as filters of that undifferentiated state. Because they are limited and finite, they have structured experiences, such as the arrow of time and finite objects. This is in contrast to the totality of experience = undifferentiated state = chaos, but it's still not non-existence. It's like white light (the undifferentiated state) passing through a prism (finite subjects) and producing different colors (this world). You can understand the illusion of separateness, the illusion of I/self, but I don't think that this dispersion process can really stop.

 

[Captive_Mind515]

Let's face it. I'm an atheist. But nobody can say for sure about post-death. Any more than we can say a drunk driver wont kill us the next time we leave our home.

I'm atheist too.

The thing I think about, is how non existence did not protect us from now existing. That's the scary thing for me anyway. Whether I'm inhabiting this brain or someone else… or another creature… we all came out of non existence.

If it happened this time, it might happen again. But I prefer to imagine that this is a one and done deal, and we're free forever when we finally get out of here.

 

[rabbitjack]

If consciousness is fundamental, if it is existence itself, then it cannot not exist. We are merely processes within this global consciousness, operating "in parallel." When one process ceases (death), the others continue and new ones emerge. Each of us is a bundle of experiences that consciousness experiences, there is no solid personality or self. It's not that I have consciousness, rather, consciousness has me. I am the product of consciousness observing itself.
It's impossible to be liberated from experience because all that exists is experience.
However, I wonder if it can exist in a completely undifferentiated state, without dissociating into different subjects, such as me/you/animals etc. Perhaps these worlds are a kind of symmetry break of that undifferentiated state. In other words, for something to exist, it must be divided into limited/bounded subjects. These subjects act as filters of that undifferentiated state. Because they are limited and finite, they have structured experiences, such as the arrow of time and finite objects. This is in contrast to the totality of experience = undifferentiated state = chaos, but it's still not non-existence. It's like white light (the undifferentiated state) passing through a prism (finite subjects) and producing different colors (this world). You can understand the illusion of separateness, the illusion of I/self, but I don't think that this dispersion process can really stop.

Not sure if you read my response, but unconsciousness is definitely a thing. You can become unconscious (e.g deep sleep, concussion, etc..).

 

[Endlichkeit]

Not sure if you read my response, but unconsciousness is definitely a thing. You can become unconscious (e.g deep sleep, concussion, etc..).

I read your response and replied that if consciousness is fundamental and matter just an appearance within it, then what we call "becoming unconscious" is just a figure of speech. Consciousness itself is never lost, it is just the particular pattern within it that you call "you" that is temporarily halted.

 

[thelostautistic]

I'm scared of this too. I do believe in reincarnation