Help Requesting Peer-Review for CTB Plan (Full Suspension)

[CumbriaCTB]

I hope this thread finds you well.

I've had this particular CTB plan since May after discovering that the hatch to my loft does in fact open (I was told it was sealed shut?) and that there is a sturdy beam literally right next to the opening that seems to be a brilliant anchor point for full suspension. Originally, I was planning to enter the nearby industrial estate at night and use a raised metal platform as an anchor point so an in-home CTB opportunity was a godsend for me.

While I am fairly confident of this plan being a success, I still naturally have a healthy bit of scepticism. I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm missing something big here. Although this is not my first CTB attempt, it is my first full suspension attempt. It would be great to get a second pair of eyes on this and obviously this is the only place I'm able to ask without being gaslit in the replies or banned by the moderators. The last thing I want is to fail carotid constriction and end up dying in minutes of agony from asphyxiation while fully conscious; even worse would be surviving the attempt with permanent brain damage.

[Apologies for the links: I'm in the UK and image uploading doesn't want to play nice with my VPN.]

View From Top of Stairs

• The entrance to the loft is upstairs in this really awkward, tight spot. I do worry that the nearby walls and doorways could cause problems if survival instinct takes over.
• The bottom step of the stool folds inwards - I can step up onto the stool and fold the bottom step to make the stool easier to kick over.
• The bathroom window has that foggy-privacy glaze thing over it so the neighbours can't see what I'm doing. There are no other windows with visibility of the noose.
• I have taken some measurements and I am confident that the noose is positioned high enough so that not even my tip-toes will touch the floor. I'm 185cm so this is a legitimate concern of mine. Floor-to-ceiling height is just over 2 metres.

Bowline Knot on Anchor Point

• This is actually two bowline knots. I had an extra metre of rope (full length is 3 metres) and needed to get it out of the way. I'm not sure if double-knotting does anything but I can't imagine it harming the CTB attempt in any way.
• Both of the knots are tied to the 45-degree wooden beam on the right.
• I've pulled downward on the noose with all of my strength and neither the knots nor the wooden beam showed any sign of giving way so I'm pretty sure it will hold my weight; I don't own scales but I'm around 75~80kg normally.
• The rope is 18mm braided polyester which I purchased from a maritime supplier.

Noose Knot in Action - Around my forearm, not my neck!

• I have confirmed that the noose knot is self-tightening when pulled down with my forearm inside the hole.
• I have also tied the noose around my neck while attached to its anchor point - it's easy to get my head through and pre-tighten prior to kicking the stool.

As for the possibility of outside interference: I live alone and have no friends/family to come calling unexpectedly (I've already had no human contact - by choice - aside from grocery delivery men for 6 weeks straight with nobody coming to check on me as of writing) and therefore I have absolutely zero risk of ever getting caught in the act.

I've actually had this thing set up since the start of May - yes, I do walk past the stool and noose every time I go to the toilet - so I can act on an impulse before survival instinct stops me. I've even gotten halfway on a double-digit number of occasions: I would have an episode and make a mad dash for the stairs, hop on the stool, noose around my neck and then... nothing. I keep fixating on how unpleasant those 15~30 seconds for carotid constriction to do its thing will be even though the average flashback I get causes me extreme agony, makes me cut myself, and I often end up coming back to my senses having destroyed yet another piece of furniture; everything in this house is owned by me and therefore my responsibility to replace.

I know I want to die and have done so since the age of 10. I'm 24 now: no friends/family, no employment history, no higher education, therapy-resistant CPTSD with flashbacks multiple times per day, neurological issues making socialising a chore with little reward, chronic anhedonia preventing me from enjoying time spent alone or with most other people, a cycle of being used-and-abused in toxic relationships, trapped in a region with a hostile culture and a looming demographic crisis (West Cumbria's population pyramid is fully inverted) with no means of emigration to other parts of the UK available to me, and 100% reliant on government benefits and social housing for survival which means that I have zero long-term prospects for recovery; in fact, things are getting worse as time goes on. Whether I CTB tonight or CTB in a few years when the DWP stops my money doesn't matter; I'll be hanging from a noose either way so why not just get it over with before I ruin yet another night with yet another flashback?

Is alcohol the solution? From my own experience, 6-7 shots (150-175ml) of 37.5% vodka consumed in quick succession is enough to pretty much turn my emotions off while retaining a relatively safe level of motor control - I've been able to take a shower, shave my arms + legs, go to the shops, and operate a stove without accident while under the influence - so, in theory, being normal-for-me levels of drunk should suppress SI while not preventing me carrying out the CTB plan. My plan for tonight is to measure out 175ml of the vodka (I'm not actually a casual drinker; I measure it out and dose it as a last-resort emotional painkiller) and just stand on the stool with the noose around my neck - no kicking the stool. If I don't get that sinking "uh oh" feeling in my gut and don't fall off of the stool then I'll know to have 175ml of vodka on-hand for the next time I get a real suicidal impulse.

I would love to hear everybody's feedback here. And, please, feel free to shoot as many holes in my plan as you wish - don't be shy, now. I'd like for this plan to be foolproof and any flaw, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant, is something worth considering. Thank you so much for making it this far!

 

[JesiBel]

Wow, you've got everything planned out very well.

Looking at the photos..

If the survival instinct kicks in, I don't see any places you could grab/climb onto to stop the attempt (unless you leave that little ladder standing next to you) Also, your conscious seconds are too few to react and try to do something quickly.

I see you've already tested your anchor point (wooden beam) and it's sturdy, supporting your full weight. And it's still intact. Did you test it with the same rope you are going to use? If so, you're already sure that both are strong.

I'm curious about the rope, its thickness, is it comfortable for you? Without having everything assembled at the anchor point, testing only the ligature at the neck (as if it were a necklace, and you can apply pressure by pulling the free end with your hands)

You could add a stopper knot to the noose knot for more security.



As for substances, it would be preferable if you had a clear mind so as not to make mistakes.

If you are an impulsive person, it would be good to take down the rope and leave that small ladder far away. Leaving that whole scene there in plain sight and reach every day is stressful, and it wouldn't be good if it forced you to act desperately/impulsively. You can set everything up when "that day" comes.

I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

 

[AreWeWinning]

Nice post. Very detailed.

(I've added your original images in my comment for convenience.)

View From Top of Stairs

Spoiler: View From Top of Stairs

• The entrance to the loft is upstairs in this really awkward, tight spot. I do worry that the nearby walls and doorways could cause problems if survival instinct takes over.

The edge of the hatch probably poses more risk than the nearby walls and doorways. It's likely a low risk though. If it's full suspension, then once you step off, you'll likely lose muscle strength quickly and won't be able to do anything about it. Looks like a decent setup overall.

• I have taken some measurements and I am confident that the noose is positioned high enough so that not even my tip-toes will touch the floor. I'm 185cm so this is a legitimate concern of mine. Floor-to-ceiling height is just over 2 metres.

If that stool is at least 40-50 cm high (looks like it is), and you need to get on the top of it to reach the noose, then it looks all right. What matters is 1) the support needs to be at least 40-50 cm high; 2) the noose has to be high enough so that you can only reach it from the top of your support.

If height is a concern, you could use a carabiner to create a noose at the perfect height that is easy to clip on. I.e. you can make a smaller noose, so less height is lost as the noose tightens when you step off.

Bowline Knot on Anchor Point

Spoiler: Bowline Knot on Anchor Point

• This is actually two bowline knots. I had an extra metre of rope (full length is 3 metres) and needed to get it out of the way. I'm not sure if double-knotting does anything but I can't imagine it harming the CTB attempt in any way.

I can't tell from the picture whether those are correctly tied Bowline Knots and how you tied them, but they do look like something that could potentially hold. I can't tell for sure. If you've tested them with your full body weight, that's definitely a good thing.

Double-knotting definitely does something. It's a fail-safe, and insurance against our own mistakes. It's the same idea as with adding stopper knots. Two Bowline Knots may be overkill, but it's not a mistake, and two are definitely better than one.

The wooden beams look fine to me. Should be strong enough.

The rope looks fine too. Braided, good material, thick but still within reason, bought from a reliable source. Checks all the boxes.

Noose Knot in Action

Spoiler: Noose Knot in Action

As @JesiBel already said, add a stopper knot to the Noose Knot (e.g. an Overhand Knot). It's not optional. The Noose Knot can be unreliable without that.

Alcohol... It looks like you thought this over. Personally, I want to be sober when my time comes, out of principle. Unless I can't do it, in which case I'm willing to give up my principles. Studies say that about 30% of people have positive blood alcohol levels at the time of death. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think alcohol can be a double-edged sword. It can make people more fearless. But it can also weaken willpower and make a person have less mental energy, which are essential to get a difficult task done. Being drunk also increases the likelihood of making a mistake.

Regarding your troubles... Thanks for sharing. I'm suicidal myself, and a bit older than you, so I don't really have an emotional reaction to these kinds of things anymore – but it's always interesting to read others' stories.

 

[CumbriaCTB]

I see you've already tested your anchor point (wooden beam) and it's sturdy, supporting your full weight. And it's still intact. Did you test it with the same rope you are going to use? If so, you're already sure that both are strong.

I'm curious about the rope, its thickness, is it comfortable for you? Without having everything assembled at the anchor point, testing only the ligature at the neck (as if it were a necklace, and you can apply pressure by pulling the free end with your hands)

I tested the wooden beam with the same rope as seen in the photographs.

As for testing for comfort, I also tied the bowline to the railing at the top of the stairs, tied the noose around my neck, and then proceeded to walk down the staircase (gripping the railing so I didn't accidentally fall and damage my neck) as far as I could so I could feel the noose tighten around my neck while being able to just walk back up the staircase when it got too tight. It felt... alright, I guess? For what it is - a coil around my neck that is supposed to kill me one day - it was only slightly uncomfortable due to the braided polyester texture pressing into my skin; to counter that, I have a (1~2mm thick) woolen shawl that I'm going to wear and, having worn it with the noose tightened, I can say that the shawl fulfills its intended role nicely.

You could add a stopper knot to the noose knot for more security.

As @JesiBel already said, add a stopper knot to the Noose Knot (e.g. an Overhand Knot). It's not optional. The Noose Knot can be unreliable without that.

Thanks for the video, JesiBel! With both yourself and WeAreWinning mentioning it, I guess that's where the "wait, I'm forgetting something important" feeling was coming from. Thank you both so much for not allowing such an essential thing to slip past my notice!

If the survival instinct kicks in, I don't see any places you could grab/climb onto to stop the attempt (unless you leave that little ladder standing next to you) Also, your conscious seconds are too few to react and try to do something quickly.

The edge of the hatch probably poses more risk than the nearby walls and doorways. It's likely a low risk though. If it's full suspension, then once you step off, you'll likely lose muscle strength quickly and won't be able to do anything about it. Looks like a decent setup overall.

If that stool is at least 40-50 cm high (looks like it is), and you need to get on the top of it to reach the noose, then it looks all right. What matters is 1) the support needs to be at least 40-50 cm high; 2) the noose has to be high enough so that you can only reach it from the top of your support.

Trust me, I really don't have the upper body strength to hold myself up by the edge of the hatch. I was more concerned about being able to use my legs to hold myself up via the walls; I have pretty good lower body strength from years of commuting by bicycle but quit after a series of incidents on the public cycling path, making me give up completely and sell the bike to a Traveller. From the WPD videos I've watched (both proper carotid constriction and the more drawn-out deaths due to incorrect setup), I remembered that the legs didn't really move all that much aside from the occasional spasm so I do believe you're correct about the risk being minimal.

The stool is pretty high and, yes, I cannot put the noose around my neck, even when standing on my tiptoes, unless I'm on the top step of the stool. All I have to do is make sure I kick it hard so that it's far enough away that I can't stand back onto it as I believe that I'm tall enough to stand on it it from a full suspension position even if it's been knocked over. I suppose I can leave the doors open so I have multiple directions in which to kick it. The bottom step might also pose a problem so I'll unscrew it later; I normally skip the bottom step simply use the walls to propel myself to the top step anyhow.

As for substances, it would be preferable if you had a clear mind so as not to make mistakes.

If you are an impulsive person, it would be good to take down the rope and leave that small ladder far away. Leaving that whole scene there in plain sight and reach every day is stressful, and it wouldn't be good if it forced you to act desperately/impulsively. You can set everything up when "that day" comes.

I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

Alcohol... It looks like you thought this over. Personally, I want to be sober when my time comes, out of principle. Unless I can't do it, in which case I'm willing to give up my principles. Studies say that about 30% of people have positive blood alcohol levels at the time of death. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think alcohol can be a double-edged sword. It can make people more fearless. But it can also weaken willpower and make a person have less mental energy, which are essential to get a difficult task done. Being drunk also increases the likelihood of making a mistake.

Yeah, I'm thinking that it's probably best if I'm sober when I do it which, being teetotal since I was 7 and hating the taste of alcohol, isn't too difficult for me to do... and is probably why I don't have any friends while living in an extremely alcohol-centric culture.

You do have a point, JesiBel. I think what I'll do is just throw the noose into the loft proper and close the hatch. I have no other reason to open that hatch and wasn't even aware that it even opened until three months ago. Now I can actually use the toilet without staring at the noose (lived alone since I was 17 and so I never shut the door while doing my business anymore) and being reminded that I could just... sleep forever if I wished. The stool itself can live in my kitchen downstairs so I can comfortably reach the roofs of my upper cupboards there without having to kneel on the countertops.

Still, as you say, AreWeWinning, if I genuinely cannot get past the SI while sober then I will have to give up my principles and go down the drunk-suicide route. The way I see it is that, when push comes to shove, I'd rather spend 3-5 minutes thrashing about with a shoddy windpipe-only CTB than have no CTB at all and have to live in an ever-worsening situation.

Then again, my hand isn't being forced at the moment and I have quite a long time to deliberate on my choice - in reality, it's more accurate to describe it as "dissociating in bed all day" - because the disability money is still flowing freely into my bank account. If the political situation grows worse (it looks to be heading that way with Labour planning benefits cuts next April) and the government stops paying me then I'll have a limited window of opportunity to CTB before I fall behind on my rent and get evicted; it is a lot harder to CTB as a homeless person rather than in the privacy of your own home. I suppose I'll cross that bridge when it comes.

Regarding your troubles... Thanks for sharing. I'm suicidal myself, and a bit older than you, so I don't really have an emotional reaction to these kinds of things anymore – but it's always interesting to read others' stories.

Yeah, I'm pretty desensitised to all of the mental health stuff so I get that same non-reaction to 99% of the stories I read on here. It's still to good to know that having a wildly different set of life circumstances to myself can still make somebody suicidal; I find it helps stop me pondering "what if..." all of the time.

Once again, I thank the both of you for your assistance and wish you both good tidings!

P.S. Thank you, WeAreWinning, for embedding my photographs! I don't think it's possible to upload images on this forum while using a VPN because I've seen a few others have the same issue.

 

[AreWeWinning]

As for testing for comfort, I also tied the bowline to the railing at the top of the stairs, tied the noose around my neck, and then proceeded to walk down the staircase (gripping the railing so I didn't accidentally fall and damage my neck) as far as I could so I could feel the noose tighten around my neck while being able to just walk back up the staircase when it got too tight. It felt... alright, I guess?

That can get you killed. It's better to practice just by throwing the rope over something, so it can slide freely, and holding the other end in your hand. Doing it that way, you'll let go of the rope and it will release tension if you pass out. Make sure there are no sharp objects around in case you pass out and fall.

All I have to do is make sure I kick it hard so that it's far enough away that I can't stand back onto it as I believe that I'm tall enough to stand on it it from a full suspension position even if it's been knocked over. I suppose I can leave the doors open so I have multiple directions in which to kick it.

This is counterintuitive, but body height isn't a factor here. What matters is the height of the support, and how much the rope and knots stretch under load. Under full load, the setup will lose height as the knots settle into position, even if the rope isn't stretchy. If that height loss is greater than the height of your support, that's a problem, regardless of body height. If the rope/knots stretch less than the height of the support, then it's fine, regardless of body height.

Body height is a factor when it comes to finding a high enough anchor point. But once you have such an anchor point, all it comes down to is 1) the height of the support and 2) rope stretch.

The way I see it is that, when push comes to shove, I'd rather spend 3-5 minutes thrashing about with a shoddy windpipe-only CTB than have no CTB at all and have to live in an ever-worsening situation.

Ironically, that attitude is what will allow you to have a peaceful and quick exit without suffering. A lot of people are doing partial – especially in inefficient positions – in order to avoid suffering, and don't realise that's exactly what will likely cause them to suffer.

Yeah, I'm pretty desensitised to all of the mental health stuff so I get that same non-reaction to 99% of the stories I read on here. It's still to good to know that having a wildly different set of life circumstances to myself can still make somebody suicidal; I find it helps stop me pondering "what if..." all of the time.

Yes, my situation is different, but at the same time, it's all the same. Life sucks for one reason or another, we can't be who we want to be, and there is no hope left that it'll ever change. That's the TL;DR version.

If we want to get philosophical, I think the below quote sums it up well. It's from an essay on the philosophy of Epictetus (Epictetus on Fearing Death: Bugbear and Open Door Policy by W.O. Stephens). I haven't read the full essay, but there was a blog post about it, which is shorter. It got deleted, but it's still available on archive.org.

Therefore, the Stoic's rationale for suicide in these conditions is not the foolish judgment that stubborn pangs of hunger or the painful symptoms of one's disease are evils to be escaped from immediately at any cost, but the wise judgment that the conditions for the possibility of exercising one's agency in the performance of one's social roles, responsibilities, and activities expressive of the kind of person one is (one's prosōpon) are irretrievably slipping away.33 This evaluation of one's life-or-death circumstances could warrant suicide as a viable, reasonable, final option.34 Hence, on my interpretation of his open door policy, Epictetus believes that (c) a person can be justified in deciding to exit life.

Performing one's natural and acquired roles and functions in life as husband, wife, brother, sister, son, daughter, teacher, student, government official, private citizen, friend, fellow traveler, or what have you is central to a human life for Epictetus (see Johnson 2012). But it is important to emphasize that Epictetus believes that the choice ultimately rests with the individual. Individuals are the final arbiters of which circumstances and bodily conditions they can tolerate when striving to fulfill their roles and live well and which they cannot.

 

[JesiBel]

I tested the wooden beam with the same rope as seen in the photographs.

As for testing for comfort, I also tied the bowline to the railing at the top of the stairs, tied the noose around my neck, and then proceeded to walk down the staircase (gripping the railing so I didn't accidentally fall and damage my neck) as far as I could so I could feel the noose tighten around my neck while being able to just walk back up the staircase when it got too tight. It felt... alright, I guess? For what it is - a coil around my neck that is supposed to kill me one day - it was only slightly uncomfortable due to the braided polyester texture pressing into my skin; to counter that, I have a (1~2mm thick) woolen shawl that I'm going to wear and, having worn it with the noose tightened, I can say that the shawl fulfills its intended role nicely.


Thanks for the video, JesiBel! With both yourself and WeAreWinning mentioning it, I guess that's where the "wait, I'm forgetting something important" feeling was coming from. Thank you both so much for not allowing such an essential thing to slip past my notice!


Trust me, I really don't have the upper body strength to hold myself up by the edge of the hatch. I was more concerned about being able to use my legs to hold myself up via the walls; I have pretty good lower body strength from years of commuting by bicycle but quit after a series of incidents on the public cycling path, making me give up completely and sell the bike to a Traveller. From the WPD videos I've watched (both proper carotid constriction and the more drawn-out deaths due to incorrect setup), I remembered that the legs didn't really move all that much aside from the occasional spasm so I do believe you're correct about the risk being minimal.

The stool is pretty high and, yes, I cannot put the noose around my neck, even when standing on my tiptoes, unless I'm on the top step of the stool. All I have to do is make sure I kick it hard so that it's far enough away that I can't stand back onto it as I believe that I'm tall enough to stand on it it from a full suspension position even if it's been knocked over. I suppose I can leave the doors open so I have multiple directions in which to kick it. The bottom step might also pose a problem so I'll unscrew it later; I normally skip the bottom step simply use the walls to propel myself to the top step anyhow.


Yeah, I'm thinking that it's probably best if I'm sober when I do it which, being teetotal since I was 7 and hating the taste of alcohol, isn't too difficult for me to do... and is probably why I don't have any friends while living in an extremely alcohol-centric culture.

You do have a point, JesiBel. I think what I'll do is just throw the noose into the loft proper and close the hatch. I have no other reason to open that hatch and wasn't even aware that it even opened until three months ago. Now I can actually use the toilet without staring at the noose (lived alone since I was 17 and so I never shut the door while doing my business anymore) and being reminded that I could just... sleep forever if I wished. The stool itself can live in my kitchen downstairs so I can comfortably reach the roofs of my upper cupboards there without having to kneel on the countertops.

Still, as you say, AreWeWinning, if I genuinely cannot get past the SI while sober then I will have to give up my principles and go down the drunk-suicide route. The way I see it is that, when push comes to shove, I'd rather spend 3-5 minutes thrashing about with a shoddy windpipe-only CTB than have no CTB at all and have to live in an ever-worsening situation.

Then again, my hand isn't being forced at the moment and I have quite a long time to deliberate on my choice - in reality, it's more accurate to describe it as "dissociating in bed all day" - because the disability money is still flowing freely into my bank account. If the political situation grows worse (it looks to be heading that way with Labour planning benefits cuts next April) and the government stops paying me then I'll have a limited window of opportunity to CTB before I fall behind on my rent and get evicted; it is a lot harder to CTB as a homeless person rather than in the privacy of your own home. I suppose I'll cross that bridge when it comes.

Yeah, I'm pretty desensitised to all of the mental health stuff so I get that same non-reaction to 99% of the stories I read on here. It's still to good to know that having a wildly different set of life circumstances to myself can still make somebody suicidal; I find it helps stop me pondering "what if..." all of the time.

Once again, I thank the both of you for your assistance and wish you both good tidings!

P.S. Thank you, WeAreWinning, for embedding my photographs! I don't think it's possible to upload images on this forum while using a VPN because I've seen a few others have the same issue.

Nice, so you've got everything tested.

As a recommendation, I would not perform the tests with everything correctly assembled, to prevent accidents.

How to practice safely

The shawl is a good idea, it is soft and will prevent direct friction of the rope against the skin. It would be good to use it without folds so that it doesn't get too thick and hinder compression.

That'll be best, clear the house with that 'scene'. Hide the rope and leave the small ladder for daily activities in the meantime. It creates too much anxiety and it's not pleasant to see something like that every day.

I'm also an impulsive person and lose my mind when my emotions control me. Having something like that 'ready-to use' is dangerous.

I don't want to be nosy but... using substances could mean that you are forcing yourself to make the attempt. I'm sure that when "that day comes" we will be so fed up with everything, without feeling any kind of emotion, or thinking about anything else... Like being in a void or in nothingness itself. I'm not good at expressing myself, it's a difficult state to explain.

Perhaps you can try some relaxation techniques such as meditation to calm your mind. 'Anapanasati' helped me a lot during episodes of stress or panic.

I hope things get better.

I wish we lived in a more humane and empathetic world. Governments and the entire system are rubbish.