Discussion People who push the obligatory hotline and CTB prevention resources..

[TAW122]

Over the years, as we continue to see messages of CTB prevention, the dreadful hotline number, and various other similar things being spewed and plastered just about everywhere, sometimes I wondered, if the people who push such rhetoric and information do so because they (pro-lifers, preventionists, anti-choicers) believe that most people "genuinely" don't know about CTB prevention resources, or do you think they do it because more of a virtue signal rather than any meaningful and sincere effort to improve the life of their target? While it is true that not all problems are solvable (or even worth the effort and time to find meaningful, real solutions) there must be better attempts to solve the cause of those who want to CTB rather than lazily parrot off some simple hotlines or other CTB prevention resources under the guise of help. It could make sense if they aren't really interested in solving the problem (aka they don't care about 'why' or the 'cause' of someone wanting to CTB), just that they don't go through with the act of 'CTB' in order to protect and shield themselves from the ugly truth of sentience.

My personal take on this as someone who is cynical and honest yet pessimistic is that humanity itself puts the value of life above all else (for instance, the common adage of 'the sanctity of life', which is rooted in religion and such), regardless of consequences of any impact on the person in their immediate and late future. Then also, from a governmental perspective (both from keeping the system running and productivity, taxes, and such) the State wants to keep one sentient just so (in the rare chance) that one is able to become a productive member of society, regardless of the actual well-being or even quality of life of the individual. To the State, a miserable and somewhat contributing worker is still a net positive just as much as a happy optimistic worker, even if the miserable contributing worker produces somewhat less than the optimist worker. So while the State could be seen as a utilitarian in that kind of point of view, it is rather an emotionless entity that looks after itself to sustain itself regardless of the cost to the person suffering.

So overall, in the end, I feel like it is a collection of many different entities and institutions, including the masses themselves (which in turn feed into the system and comprise of society and civilization itself) pushing and doing everything for the continuation and persistence of sentience (life itself). As for the masses who push and parrot off such resources, it may also be to shield themselves from the discomforting concept of death itself and not accepting death as being a part of life/sentience. It doesn't matter about the quality of life, contrary to what many preventionists 'love' to espouse, but that their target person/people/group are alive and not dead, but I digress.. While there are certainly preventionists who do so with genuine care for their target person, that is definitely not true for the majority of preventionists and they certainly don't care about what happens afterwards, just that said person is alive, regardless of that person's state of well being (having basic needs, financially secure, enjoying life, etc.).

 

[fringesoflife]

I totally agree. I will say that I think people who are close to us parrot these things because they don't know what else to do and there afraid of loosing us.

I also don't think people are educated about these systems. My experience is that these hotlines won't do anything unless I'm actively about to attempt to CTB. If I'm at risk of CTB then there only solution is hospitalization. I've been through hospitalization a couple times and it's awful and counterproductive. How is keeping me in a place where I can't do anything but think supposed to help my suicidal thought. Plus the people who work in those places are so condescending and treat us like shit. When I got out of my last hospital visit I was more suicidal then when I went in, I had to lie and say I was doing okay just to get out of there to try and limit the damage. I really don't think these people understand how horrible these resources are for helping people who may want support.

On the otherside I think there are people who just want to pump us full of meds to keep us going to prop the system up. They don't care about our suffering. They value the existence of life but not the quality.

I'm frustrated because I wanted support. I wanted to live. I wanted a better quality of life but I couldn't find any help. The only resources I'm given are trash. Now my only option is to CTB

 

[SilentSadness]

I think that so many people posting suicide hotline numbers is very irresponsible if they have not used it or researched it. Well I have researched it and all of its problems so I pretty much skip the hotline links as if they were adverts. Sadly people always feel the need to "do something" to help, even if they don't want to put any effort. The reality is that there are studies that show the hotlines don't make much if any difference:

Display of helpline notices was not associated with an observed change in the likelihood of or future suicide searches (P=.42). No statistically significant differences were observed in the likelihood of people making future suicide queries (both generally and specific types of suicide queries) when comparing search engines in locations that display helpline notices versus ones that do not. Pages with higher rank, being neutral to suicide, and those shown among more antisuicide pages were more likely to be clicked on. Having more antisuicide Web pages displayed was the only factor associated with further searches for suicide prevention information (hazard=1.18, P=.002).

Although, I think it's telling that they still conclude that hotline numbers should be displayed anyway:

Helpline notices are not associated with harm. If they cause positive change in search behavior, it is small. This is possibly because of the variability in intent of users seeking suicide-related information. Nonetheless, helpline notice should be displayed, but more efforts should be made to improve the visibility and ranking of suicide prevention Web pages.

It just shows the pro life bias of "we have evidence this doesn't work but we should continue doing it anyway".

 

[TAW122]

@fringesoflife yes, what you said is really consistent and true too and many people even those who aren't on SaSu have had negative experiences with the hotline and the mental health system in general. Indeed, I believe a lot of people just don't understand (or even if they did understand, they didn't care about the consequences as you mentioned), and sadly as long as that kind of attitude persists with the masses of society, then there is little progress or change. While I have never used such hotlines before (as I'm already weary of anything CTB prevention and even mental health professionals myself), such horror stories only further validate and reinforce my stance. Anyways, I'm sorry to hear about your predicament and I hope you are able to find peace in whatever you choose to do.

@SilentSadness That's pretty much true and I think a lot of people definitely didn't really use them, let alone even look in depth of all the repercussions that happen to certain people who did use such hotlines and resources. They simply parrot off what others and media tell them and act as if it was 'gospel', which is infuriating. Also, thanks for providing the interesting data and insight about how the helpline didn't really change CTB rates, and I agree with your last sentence. It seems like people just want the accolade and recognition of pretending to be helpful, even if it really doesn't do anything constructive or meaningful for the people they claim to be 'helping'. In fact, it may even make things worse for the people who use those hotlines and resources.

 

[fringesoflife]

@fringesoflife yes, what you said is really consistent and true too and many people even those who aren't on SaSu have had negative experiences with the hotline and the mental health system in general. Indeed, I believe a lot of people just don't understand (or even if they did understand, they didn't care about the consequences as you mentioned), and sadly as long as that kind of attitude persists with the masses of society, then there is little progress or change. While I have never used such hotlines before (as I'm already weary of anything CTB prevention and even mental health professionals myself), such horror stories only further validate and reinforce my stance. Anyways, I'm sorry to hear about your predicament and I hope you are able to find peace in whatever you choose to do.

@SilentSadness That's pretty much true and I think a lot of people definitely didn't really use them, let alone even look in depth of all the repercussions that happen to certain people who did use such hotlines and resources. They simply parrot off what others and media tell them and act as if it was 'gospel', which is infuriating. Also, thanks for providing the interesting data and insight about how the helpline didn't really change CTB rates, and I agree with your last sentence. It seems like people just want the accolade and recognition of pretending to be helpful, even if it really doesn't do anything constructive or meaningful for the people they claim to be 'helping'. In fact, it may even make things worse for the people who use those hotlines and resources.

I thought about writing in my suicide note how bad these systems are but I realized no one will listen. Don't worry I've made my peace with death. Life will never get better. I'm just waiting on my shotgun to be delivered to my FFL so I can CTB. (Also trying to figure out where to CTB)

 

[ShipSeeksHarbour]

It's frustrating when you ask for help, or message in a way that's obvious you're desperate for connection and support, and all people do is send a list of helplines. No attempt at all to connect. I'd rather people tried and did a bad job, than not try at all and palm you off to helplines. It stings more when these people have mental illness / struggles themselves and should know better. But they're usually lucky enough to have been helped by the system, or at least not harmed drastically.

 

[TAW122]

It's frustrating when you ask for help, or message in a way that's obvious you're desperate for connection and support, and all people do is send a list of helplines. No attempt at all to connect. I'd rather people tried and did a bad job, than not try at all and palm you off to helplines. It stings more when these people have mental illness / struggles themselves and should know better. But they're usually lucky enough to have been helped by the system, or at least not harmed drastically.

Exactly and while it doesn't apply to me specifically, I have read on Internet forums where someone is clearly asking for advice or help with whatever issue or problem they are facing and any mention or hint of CTB gets automatically met with helplines and other CTB prevention content without any effort to hear the person out or help them. It is just infuriating and reductive to see such responses, which only shows how lazy many people are. In the end, it shows how much they (the people who post or refer to those hotlines or helplines) only care about their ego (which is of course, virtue signaling) and how their fellow peers pat themselves on the back for sticking it to the person suffering, doing something (parroting off the helplines as if it does anything constructive - which in fact, it doesn't. Especially for the mindfully and determined to CTB people), even though the end result is the person is either worse off (if they call said helpline and made their predicament worse) or no better off than simply not having done anything. The cynical side of me believes that it is perhaps one of society's way to feigning (pretending) to care about the issues while not wanting to deal with suicidal people (as society collectively sees them as a problem, a burden, or a blight to their values).