Method Numbing Oral Sprays/A alternative to SN and KN?

[Goyasan]

it depends on what it is. maybe benzocaine is safe as a powder or maybe its
not

one day i drank caffeine powder with apple juice to try to die and was throwing up blood

it made me so sick

i got it from a physical store not online but i dont know what i drank

and it didnt really dissolve

Technically, it is about as safe as the amount you take if that makes sense. But, if the amount of benzocaine in a oral numbing spray is enough to cause problems, which is a low amount, then a concentrated dosage of pure benzocaine in a ethanol solution should possibly be more than enough.

That's, and I don't mean to be rude, because it's probably a very difficult way to overdose that could incur intestinal damage. I'm really sorry to hear that.

 

[rkk3]

Technically, it is about as safe as the amount you take if that makes sense. But, if the amount of benzocaine in a oral numbing spray is enough to cause problems, which is a low amount, then a concentrated dosage of pure benzocaine in a ethanol solution should possibly be more than enough.

That's, and I don't mean to be rude, because it's probably a very difficult way to overdose that could incur intestinal damage. I'm really sorry to hear that.

yes it was so bad that i was going to breathe in water on purpose if i was near water

it made me not afraid of anything

its so much worse than drowning that theres nothing to say

trillion times worse

what it does to throat and lungs but nothing went in my lungs it makes you not scared of drowning so much that you would drown with no fear

 

[monetpompo]

one day i drank caffeine powder with apple juice to try to die and was throwing up blood

caffeine powder and apple juice is completely different from benzocaine and alcohol imo

 

[rkk3]

caffeine powder and apple juice is completely different from benzocaine and alcohol. not to sound rude

yes you are right

someone should try it and tell us

 

[Jisatsu]

it depends what it is

one day i drank caffeine powder with apple juice to try to die and was throwing up blood

it made me so sick

i got it from a store not online but i dont know what i drank

and it didnt really dissolve

Caffeine powder is completely different than Benzocaine Powder, it's two completely different drugs.


...
I bought some liquid benzocaine the same stuff in the sprays and I bought the powder. Surprisingly both are cheap
I have enough benzocaine to make me die 3 times over now. Yaya! Lol

 

[Lilithium]

it depends what it is

one day i drank caffeine powder with apple juice to try to die and was throwing up blood

it made me so sick

i got it from a store not online but i dont know what i drank

and it didnt really dissolve

That's your problem then, if it didn't dissolve then that was the issue. Caffeine is only moderately soluble in water at cold and room temperatures so it may be difficult to get it to fully dissolve without heating the liquid up, and it could also be that it was cut with an inactive ingredient which wasn't soluble in water so it wouldn't dissolve.
Benzocaine powder is soluble in ethanol so theoretically it should dissolve in something like vodka.

 

[rkk3]

That's your problem then, if it didn't dissolve then that was the issue. Caffeine is only moderately soluble in water at cold and room temperatures so it may be difficult to get it to fully dissolve without heating the liquid up, and it could also be that it was cut with an inactive ingredient which wasn't soluble in water so it wouldn't dissolve.
Benzocaine powder is soluble in ethanol so theoretically it should dissolve in something like vodka.

even if it dissolved it would do the same thing

whatever it was it was poison

 

[Goyasan]

Benzocaine powder is soluble in ethanol so theoretically it should dissolve in something like vodka.

Yeesh, I know we're already discussing it as a means to CTB but I am NOT going to look forward to drinking an unholy mixture of staight vodka with benzocaine. I wonder if mixing it in something would lessen its potency/lethality because at least SN (from my experience) was manageable to swallow down alone, but vodka? Eugh.

 

[Jisatsu]

That's your problem then, if it didn't dissolve then that was the issue. Caffeine is only moderately soluble in water at cold and room temperatures so it may be difficult to get it to fully dissolve without heating the liquid up, and it could also be that it was cut with an inactive ingredient which wasn't soluble in water so it wouldn't dissolve.
Benzocaine powder is soluble in ethanol so theoretically it should dissolve in something like vodka.

I wouldn't wanna know why someone would wanna try to od on caffeine, it's just asking to feel like shit.

Yeesh, I know we're already discussing it as a means to CTB but I am NOT going to look forward to drinking an unholy mixture of staight vodka with benzocaine. I wonder if mixing it in something would lessen its potency/lethality because at least SN (from my experience) was manageable to swallow down alone, but vodka? Eugh.

Well technically you can mix it in acidic juices ... I was thinking of making vodka cranberries and mixing it in and taking it as shots.

 

[Goyasan]

I wouldn't wanna know why someone would wanna try to od on caffeine, it's just asking to feel like shit.

Well technically you can mix it in acidic juices ... I was thinking of making vodka cranberries and mixing it in and taking it as shots.

Now I have to wonder if the fasting aspect of the protocol should be kept if you're going to consume something strongly alcoholic.

 

[Jisatsu]

Now I have to wonder if the fasting aspect of the protocol should be kept if you're going to consume something strongly alcoholic.

It's always recommended to fast if you ingest poison

 

[monetpompo]

It's always recommended to fast if you ingest poison

you puke less in general if you don't eat anything. if you ate a sandwich before taking poison you'd puke the sandwich along with the poison. though, fasting for too long can also make you dizzy and nauseous. that's why you shouldn't fast for 48 or 24 hours straight

 

[Goyasan]

you puke less in general if you don't eat anything. if you ate a sandwich before taking poison you'd puke the sandwich along with the poison. though, fasting for too long can also make you dizzy and nauseous. that's why you shouldn't fast for 48 or 24 hours straight

What would be the best amount of time to fast?

 

[Jisatsu]

What would be the best amount of time to fast?

From experience anywhere from 12 to 8 hours

 

[rkk3]

I wouldn't wanna know why someone would wanna try to od on caffeine, it's just asking to feel like shit.

Well technically you can mix it in acidic juices ... I was thinking of making vodka cranberries and mixing it in and taking it as shots.

i agree i tried to have a heart attack but instead it was poison doesnt do anything to heart

at all

 

[Jisatsu]

i agree i tried to have a heart attack but instead it was poison doesnt do anything to heart

at all

Hun you don't want to give yourself cardiac arrest unless you're unconscious

 

[rkk3]

Hun you don't want to give yourself cardiac arrest unless you're unconscious

no i want it as im conscious not unconscious i like the pain of that, but not other pain

 

[otium]

Reading the thread, so is buying 100g of the powder and mixing it with alcohol the method or is it easier to find 20% .5 oz, buy a few of those and chug? Is it dependent on whether you throw up? Just curious.

 

[Jisatsu]

no i want it as im conscious not unconscious i like the pain of that, but not other pain.

Why wouldn't you want to be unconscious as you die? You literally feel nothing ...

Reading the thread, so is buying 100g of the powder and mixing it with alcohol the method or is it easier to find 20% .5 oz, buy a few of those and chug? Is it dependent on whether you throw up? Just curious.

Don't throw up if you can , we should treat this method similarly to sn protocols. Either way should work... it depends on you.

 

[rkk3]

i dont want to feel nothing when it comes to heart. i actually want to feel it

but when you get cardiac arrest you go unconscious in a few seconds in 6 to 20 seconds

Why wouldn't you want to be unconscious as you die? You literally feel nothing ...

 

[monetpompo]

100g of the powder and mixing it with alcohol the method or is it easier to find 20% .5 oz, buy a few of those and chug?

jisatsu has access to both methods after buying the powder and 4 bottles of 20% .5 oz. i currently only have access to the 20% bottles because i'm not old enough to buy vodka to mix with the powder. i would recommend the 100g powder with alcohol to most people researching the method.

 

[StoicPizza]

I personally believe the only downside to this method would be the numbing of the mouth and maybe even part of the throat when you take it.
It might make it either worse for nausea or it might make it so you don't throw up... lots of variables can be at play because no one has made a exact protocol for it yet.

Imagine that protocol getting added as a plausible megathread

 

[Jisatsu]

Imagine that protocol getting added as a plausible megathread

I believe it needs to have more attempts before it has one

 

[uniquejam]

This looked interesting, so decided to look more into it (mostly Benzocaine).
Mechanism (Source 1): Acquired Methemoglobinemia, or MetHB:
"Acquired methemoglobinemia may arise from exposure to direct oxidizing agents (eg, benzocaine, prilocaine), indirect oxidants (eg, nitrates)...."
Higher methemoglobin levels result in more severe symptoms, >70% methemoglobin out of total hemoglobin is often fatal.

Overview of acquired methemoglobinemia (Source 2):
Interesting to see that Dapsone was the most common cause of methemoglobinemia, a couple of cases from other commonly used drugs/anesthetics, and a couple cases of intentional sodium nitrite ingestion.

Benzocaine (Source 3, 4)
Benzocaine: oral anesthetic commonly applied before endoscopy, usually in the form of a spray.
Benzocaine Hydrochloride: water soluble salt form of benzocaine, in contrast to the nonsoluble base form.
Cases: Able to find a couple cases reports that mostly involve use of some brand of Benzocaine spray (usually 20%) during medical procedures. Recommended dosage of these sprays seems to be 1 sec, which is 200mg. Couldn't find cases of intentional overdoses on Benzocaine.
300mg for Benzocaine/500mg for prilocaine are some estimates for amounts that can induce methemoglobinemia.

FDA (Source 5):
Estimate at least 400 cases of benzocaine induced methemoglobinemia, and of 119 cases recently reviewed, found 4 deaths.
"We also conducted a study comparing the relative ability of the two local anesthetics benzocaine and lidocaine to make methemoglobin. The study showed that benzocaine generated much more methemoglobin than lidocaine in a red blood cell model." I think this is also the study Lilithium referenced in their post.

This got me really curious about the lethality of benzocaine, and compared to other drugs. (Personally, as long as a lethal dose is possible, relative comparisons is irrelevant).

It is more potent but sn is more lethal in low doses.

So I followed references and found studies where animals were fed a variety of things that could kill them.
Keep in mind, there is often species difference in response and tolerance to any anything will be vastly different, take it with a HUGE grain of salt. I just looked these up out of curiousity.
https://cdn.caymanchem.com/cdn/msds/20132m.pdf
So apparently LD50 for rats is 3042 mg/kg, 2500 mg/kg for mouse?
For comparison, it seems to be 180 mg/kg for Sodium Nitrite.
https://www.chemtradelogistics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/SDS-Sodium_Nitrite_High_Purity_Special_Granular_Grade-EN.pdf

Benzocaine Rat Study (Source 6):
Rats were fed benzocaine hydrochloride in various doses (0, 2, 4, 8, 16...256, 512, 1024 mg/kg body weight) . Don't want to misinterpret the results, but using a benchmark of >70% methemoglobin being lethal, 512 mg/kg reaches that level in male and female rats.
Other interesting parts: "Applying a 10-fold safety factor for extrapolating these values from rats to humans implies that a single oral dose of 1.6–4.9 mg benzocaine hydrochloride per kg body weight would not induce methemoglobin in humans. A 1-s application of a 20% benzocaine spray (i.e., HurricaineÒ) delivers approximately 200 mg benzocaine or 3.3 mg benzocaine per kg body weight for a 60 kg individual (Novaro et al., 2003)." Again, don't trust "extrapolating these values from rats to humans".....

PAPP Review (Source 7):
While researching, came across this chemical...
PAPP is another chemical that can cause methemoglobinemia, commonly used as a pesticide so research on its lethality is pretty extensive.
Super lethal to cats and canids it seems, but less lethal to humans?
"The toxicity of PAPP (LD50) via the oral route is characterized by the relative sensitivity of mammals and birds which fall into three general groups:
1. LD50 <50mg/kg, with cats the most sensitive followed by stoats>coyote,
bobcats>kit foxes, ferrets, ducks and dogs;
2. LD50 100-500mg/kg, encompassing the majority of species tested; and
3. LD50 >1000mg/kg, represented by female mice and female guinea pigs and
magpies."
"..LD50 data is not available for humans, but in sub-lethal studies oral doses of up to 10mg/kg of mass have been administered with few if any side-effects other than methaemoglobinaemia."
Observed behavior prior to death: "One of the key drivers for developing PAPP has been animal welfare. When delivered at a lethal dose, rapid induction of high levels of methaemoglobin can quickly induce death with minimal symptoms of distress. Rapidly induced anoxia is the cause of death and appears to be without appreciable pain or discomfort....There were no signs of discomfort, stress or vomiting associated with poisoning; animals became quiet, lethargic, and then unconscious for a short period before death."

Conclusion:
There are many different chemicals that can cause methemoglobinemia, and SN is only one. However, given the general lack of testing on humans, it can be hard to have definitive conclusions of their effects, lethality, side effects, when overdosed on, factors that determine their suitability for suicide.

Also, why is everyone hung up on Benzocaine not being water soluble? Surely you can still drink it with water, or just eat it, bake it into a pie, I think. Much more concerning is the lack of cases, compared to SN.

Final thoughts/questions:
- How badly did doctors fuck up, did they keep spraying for a whole minute or something?
- Of the cases studies I looked at, none seemed to note side effects of benzocaine overdose beyond those expected from methemoglobinemia.
- Who was the first "lab rat" for SN, and why was it first chosen? Maybe other things were tried, didn't work so were forgotten..
- More research into the toxicology of PPAP, which you expect because its a pesticide.

Sources:
Overview:
1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537317/
2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214750024000283
Benzocaine:
3. https://sci-hub.ru/10.1381/0960892053723376
4. https://www.masimo.co.jp/pdf/whitepaper/LAB4280B.pdf
FDA:
5. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/risk-serious-and-potentially-fatal-blood-disorder-prompts-fda-action-oral-over-counter-benzocaine
Rat Study:
6. https://sci-hub.ru/10.1016/j.fct.2011.06.048
PAPP:
7. https://www.envirolink.govt.nz/asse...use-as-a-new-predator-control-tool-in-NZ2.pdf

 

[owarikigan]

this is the second method i'm keeping up with now . its taking everything in me not to go right into it because i still fear the potential suffer amount / cost of failure but i'm eager for more info to come out

 

[Jisatsu]

This looked interesting, so decided to look more into it (mostly Benzocaine).
Mechanism (Source 1): Acquired Methemoglobinemia, or MetHB:
"Acquired methemoglobinemia may arise from exposure to direct oxidizing agents (eg, benzocaine, prilocaine), indirect oxidants (eg, nitrates)...."
Higher methemoglobin levels result in more severe symptoms, >70% methemoglobin out of total hemoglobin is often fatal.

Overview of acquired methemoglobinemia (Source 2):
Interesting to see that Dapsone was the most common cause of methemoglobinemia, a couple of cases from other commonly used drugs/anesthetics, and a couple cases of intentional sodium nitrite ingestion.

Benzocaine (Source 3, 4)
Benzocaine: oral anesthetic commonly applied before endoscopy, usually in the form of a spray.
Benzocaine Hydrochloride: water soluble salt form of benzocaine, in contrast to the nonsoluble base form.
Cases: Able to find a couple cases reports that mostly involve use of some brand of Benzocaine spray (usually 20%) during medical procedures. Recommended dosage of these sprays seems to be 1 sec, which is 200mg. Couldn't find cases of intentional overdoses on Benzocaine.
300mg for Benzocaine/500mg for prilocaine are some estimates for amounts that can induce methemoglobinemia.

FDA (Source 5):
Estimate at least 400 cases of benzocaine induced methemoglobinemia, and of 119 cases recently reviewed, found 4 deaths.
"We also conducted a study comparing the relative ability of the two local anesthetics benzocaine and lidocaine to make methemoglobin. The study showed that benzocaine generated much more methemoglobin than lidocaine in a red blood cell model." I think this is also the study Lilithium referenced in their post.

This got me really curious about the lethality of benzocaine, and compared to other drugs. (Personally, as long as a lethal dose is possible, relative comparisons is irrelevant).

So I followed references and found studies where animals were fed a variety of things that could kill them.
Keep in mind, there is often species difference in response and tolerance to any anything will be vastly different, take it with a HUGE grain of salt. I just looked these up out of curiousity.
https://cdn.caymanchem.com/cdn/msds/20132m.pdf
So apparently LD50 for rats is 3042 mg/kg, 2500 mg/kg for mouse?
For comparison, it seems to be 180 mg/kg for Sodium Nitrite.
https://www.chemtradelogistics.com/...ite_High_Purity_Special_Granular_Grade-EN.pdf

Benzocaine Rat Study (Source 6):
Rats were fed benzocaine hydrochloride in various doses (0, 2, 4, 8, 16...256, 512, 1024 mg/kg body weight) . Don't want to misinterpret the results, but using a benchmark of >70% methemoglobin being lethal, 512 mg/kg reaches that level in male and female rats.
Other interesting parts: "Applying a 10-fold safety factor for extrapolating these values from rats to humans implies that a single oral dose of 1.6–4.9 mg benzocaine hydrochloride per kg body weight would not induce methemoglobin in humans. A 1-s application of a 20% benzocaine spray (i.e., HurricaineÒ) delivers approximately 200 mg benzocaine or 3.3 mg benzocaine per kg body weight for a 60 kg individual (Novaro et al., 2003)." Again, don't trust "extrapolating these values from rats to humans".....

PAPP Review (Source 7):
While researching, came across this chemical...
PAPP is another chemical that can cause methemoglobinemia, commonly used as a pesticide so research on its lethality is pretty extensive.
Super lethal to cats and canids it seems, but less lethal to humans?
"The toxicity of PAPP (LD50) via the oral route is characterized by the relative sensitivity of mammals and birds which fall into three general groups:
1. LD50 <50mg/kg, with cats the most sensitive followed by stoats>coyote,
bobcats>kit foxes, ferrets, ducks and dogs;
2. LD50 100-500mg/kg, encompassing the majority of species tested; and
3. LD50 >1000mg/kg, represented by female mice and female guinea pigs and
magpies."
"..LD50 data is not available for humans, but in sub-lethal studies oral doses of up to 10mg/kg of mass have been administered with few if any side-effects other than methaemoglobinaemia."
Observed behavior prior to death: "One of the key drivers for developing PAPP has been animal welfare. When delivered at a lethal dose, rapid induction of high levels of methaemoglobin can quickly induce death with minimal symptoms of distress. Rapidly induced anoxia is the cause of death and appears to be without appreciable pain or discomfort....There were no signs of discomfort, stress or vomiting associated with poisoning; animals became quiet, lethargic, and then unconscious for a short period before death."

Conclusion:
There are many different chemicals that can cause methemoglobinemia, and SN is only one. However, given the general lack of testing on humans, it can be hard to have definitive conclusions of their effects, lethality, side effects, when overdosed on, factors that determine their suitability for suicide.

Also, why is everyone hung up on Benzocaine not being water soluble? Surely you can still drink it with water, or just eat it, bake it into a pie, I think. Much more concerning is the lack of cases, compared to SN.

Final thoughts/questions:
- How badly did doctors fuck up, did they keep spraying for a whole minute or something?
- Of the cases studies I looked at, none seemed to note side effects of benzocaine overdose beyond those expected from methemoglobinemia.
- Who was the first "lab rat" for SN, and why was it first chosen? Maybe other things were tried, didn't work so were forgotten..
- More research into the toxicology of PPAP, which you expect because its a pesticide.

Sources:
Overview:
1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537317/
2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214750024000283
Benzocaine:
3. https://sci-hub.ru/10.1381/0960892053723376
4. https://www.masimo.co.jp/pdf/whitepaper/LAB4280B.pdf
FDA:
5. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...ompts-fda-action-oral-over-counter-benzocaine
Rat Study:
6. https://sci-hub.ru/10.1016/j.fct.2011.06.048
PAPP:
7. https://www.envirolink.govt.nz/asse...use-as-a-new-predator-control-tool-in-NZ2.pdf

Thanks for looking deeper into the subject. But on the subject on it being soluble... benzocaine powder is not soluble in water , they just don't mix together but as for the spray or pre-made liquid you can buy I don't know if its generally a good idea to make any of it into a pie because of how it could lose its effectiveness.

You could technically mix the powder with soluble liquids such as what they use for making the oral sprays , as for me i believe ethanol is the best and it's also the easiest for me to get but it might not be the best option for everyone. I do believe everyone should do they're own research on this before deciding to take it so they don't get surprised when they don't take enough... I personally believe you need to take at least 2 to 3 times the lethal dosage which is about one bottle .
Estimated amounts to have methemoglobinemia in the body is 200mg but to fully ctb you need enough to stop oxygen flow at 70 percent ... and to not mess up and recover you need a significant amount more then just 200mg. Sadly this isn't like sn where it takes a small amount it's going to take more .

I think for a good amount about 30ml and fasting for 8 hours should be enough to ctb without intervention.
So for oral numbing sprays it's
5% benzocaine → 50 mg/mL
30 mL × 50 mg = 1,500 mg
10% benzocaine → 100 mg/mL
30 mL × 100 mg = 3,000 mg
20% benzocaine → 200 mg/mL
30 mL × 200 mg = 6,000 mg

I definitely suggest taking 20% benzocaine or just going with the powder that's around 99% pure online.
With the powder you can easily just take 25g with fasting and you'll be able to definitely ctb.

 

[uniquejam]

But on the subject on it being soluble... benzocaine powder is not soluble in water , they just don't mix together but as for the spray or pre-made liquid you can buy I don't know if its generally a good idea to make any of it into a pie because of how it could lose its effectiveness.

I'm just unsure what dosage form has the greatest effects, whether dissolved in alcohol or some other form. Applied locally as a spray is probably not lethal, but in oral intake as in the rat study, able to cause high levels of methemoglobinemia? It would be interesting if there were more studies of benzocaine being applied and causing lethal effects (like there are for PAPP), then I would feel less uncertainty.

I definitely suggest taking 20% benzocaine or just going with the powder that's around 99% pure online.
With the powder you can easily just take 25g with fasting and you'll be able to definitely ctb.

Is 25g an estimate based on the amount for a similar SN overdose? I would be uncertain if that is the case. But that would put 500mg/kg as a lethal dose, which doesn't seem super unlikely.

 

[deadngoresurgery]

oh wow, i didnt even know that. i have some in my cabinet from when i got a sore throat, but had no idea this was a viable method. the only thing is, will it be a painful death??

 

[monetpompo]

the only thing is, will it be a painful death??

i'm trying to figure out how to document it since i plan on attempting with 4 20% 0.5 fl. oz benzocaine later this week but idk how to type or speak while actively dying lol. the only way to give a first person report is to have someone be there in person or be on a video call, but i won't be in my house (will have bad internet). right now it can't be seen as viable until it's tested.

 

[Jisatsu]

I'm just unsure what dosage form has the greatest effects, whether dissolved in alcohol or some other form. Applied locally as a spray is probably not lethal, but in oral intake as in the rat study, able to cause high levels of methemoglobinemia? It would be interesting if there were more studies of benzocaine being applied and causing lethal effects (like there are for PAPP), then I would feel less uncertainty.

Is 25g an estimate based on the amount for a similar SN overdose? I would be uncertain if that is the case. But that would put 500mg/kg as a lethal dose, which doesn't seem super unlikely.

25g is because of sn and because it's the max you should take for basically any poisoning .
The difference is we aren't rats , we are humans and thus the intake of benzocaine needs to be way more.

200mg is a lethal dose but it's basically the start of symptoms of methemoglobinemia... and that's why people say it's lethal. The methemoglobinemia will not last at that level so you need to take significantly more.

We will see soon if I'm right or not ... but I'm very certain with what I'm saying because I've taken multiple different poisons and I've seen other cases irl because I worked in a er.

i'm trying to figure out how to document it since i plan on attempting with 4 20% 0.5 fl. oz benzocaine later this week but idk how to type or speak while actively dying lol. the only way to give a first person report is to have someone be there in person or be on a video call, but i won't be in my house (will have bad internet). right now it can't be seen as viable until it's tested.

I thought you were taking the oral anesthetic from that one drug store we discussed?

oh wow, i didnt even know that. i have some in my cabinet from when i got a sore throat, but had no idea this was a viable method. the only thing is, will it be a painful death??

It will be a longer lasting sn type death. You'll feel sick and weak until you go unconscious .