No, I will not call the crisis line.

[Unspoken7612]

People here often misunderstand suicide prevention efforts, and likewise, suicide prevention people largely misunderstand the sorts of people to end up here.

Suicide prevention people, especially mental health authorities, view suicide as a crisis. According to their worldview, people do not want to kill themselves, but may decide to do so anyway in moments of extreme emotion, like discovering an infidelity, losing a job, receiving bad news, being bereaved, and so on. People who find themselves in that situation would, deep down, rather not be dead, but are unable to properly control themselves in the heat of the moment. Such people might call a crisis line and ask to be stopped from killing themselves.

In turn, most people on here would not consider their suicide to be impulsive, and would say that we don't want to be stopped. Calling a crisis line during a moment of intense suicidality would be counter-productive, because it would stop us achieving our goals. (Note, if you don't feel that way then that's fine. I'm not saying you shouldn't call a crisis line, I'm saying that I wouldn't and assuming that some people think similarly to me.) Rather than being impulsive, a common philosophy seems to be that suicide is the ultimate expression of autonomy. It's my life and I should be allowed to end it.

I don't think either side is totally wrong or totally right. There are probably people for whom suicide is a passing wish, who, if prevented, will never attempt again. There are also people with a deep-seated wish to die, who have made good-faith attempts to engage in treatment without success, or who have problems that simply aren't going away (society seems to view terminal illness as the most valid one, but you might view others as equally valid).

What I think users here do often get wrong is assuming that suicide prevention is somehow a malicious act, an impingement upon your liberty designed to make you suffer because that suffering is good for the government/big business/the tendrils of the Vatican/GlaxoSmithKline/the lizards. With apologies for taking the piss out of that worldview - that's a fundamental misunderstanding. Suicide prevention efforts are rooted in a belief that suicide is usually bad for everyone, and stopping it allows people to live longer lives, which is good. That belief might not always be true, and might lead to some suffering, but it is sincere, benevolent, and altruistic.

 

[Jarring]

Ive only ever called a crisis line once just so that i could feel like im heard and even then i felt like im talking with a soulless person who is talking to me just because it is a part of their job. Honestly made me feel even more isolated.

 

[uglyugly]

I once called suicide prevention line and they put me on hold. I'm not making this up. I said fuck it and hung up.

I don't see anything wrong with crisis lines, but I'll be damned if I ever call one again. Once I have made a decision, no one on this planet is going to change my mind and I sure as hell don't want to open the door to have the authorities called and me hauled off to be forcibly drugged in the nut hut (just my view - not trying to insult anyone). To me, that is a fate worse than death.

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

Whenever you feel like calling a crisis line, remember that Ted Bundy volunteered at one at one point.

 

[Promised Heaven]

Suicide prevention hotlines are doing exactly what they advertise, prevent suicide. They don't have to be friendly, they don't have to be comforting. They are people who are trained to analyze the risk your will CTB and in "extreme" cases (they claim 2% but I swear it's at least 30-40%) will call police to force you to live, and that's almost always traumatic.

I feel most people misunderstand the crisis line as a kind, empathetic human being who will reassure you everything is okay in your darkest moments. Some are, I don't believe the people behind the lines are personally heartless, they do, indeed believe they're doing the right thing. It's the training they receive to process you as fast as possible before the next suicidial person calls. Hours and hours of meeting people at their low point drains a person.

They're preventing suicides, mostly. But not in the way anyone here wants.

If you want to be saved and you're very impulsive, call.

If you don't want to be saved, or risk police, regardless if you're impulsive, you don't call.

If you want to be saved but don't want to risk police, welcome to my life.

Humans are complicated, and we're all suicidial for a reason. Some of us are in crisis, but most of us came to this place because it's no longer a crisis if the thoughts have become a daily basis. The lines are not meant for the chronically suicidial.

 

[Ariii]

Suicide lines are really a dice roll. I've knew a girl who called the line and it really helped her change her perspective on life. I've also known people who have been put on hold and other bad experiences. Seems like there's a lack of quality control

 

[desolatefuture]

Whenever you feel like calling a crisis line, remember that Ted Bundy volunteered at one at one point.

Lol. That fact makes me rethink whenever I feel like calling a crisis line.

 

[Unspoken7612]

To be clear, I'll happily call the Samaritans, who I have had much better experiences with and who aren't about "suicide prevention", just about listening.

But I am not interested in hospitalisation and don't think it would do me any good. I might be wrong.

 

[Aura]

I can't imagine calling the line in that kind of situation and getting put on hold that's one hell of a red flag at least to me.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree with all of this aside from your last paragraph as I do believe that suicide prevention is done because the government wants slaves. Aside from that, this is a well written post and dealing with suicide hotlines sounds exhausting as I refuse to let people who have never experienced my life lecture me on how life is beautiful

 

[Forever Sleep]

I agree with pretty much all your points. Regarding the last paragraph though- I would agree that suicide prevention isn't always intended as a malicious act to inhibit liberty. However, when it comes to:

'Suicide prevention efforts are rooted in a belief that suicide is usually bad for everyone, and stopping it allows people to live longer lives, which is good. That belief might not always be true, and might lead to some suffering, but it is sincere, benevolent, and altruistic.'

Who does it benefit to keep people who are deeply suffering alive? Does it truly benefit them? I'd perhaps agree that the intention is altruistic. Based on the idea that everyone can be helped. Everyone can be 'saved' to go on and live a happy life. But, just simple common sense should show that for everyone, that won't be the case. Someone with an incurable illness of any kind- physical, mental, even severe cases of body dysphoria. Someone who's life situation is utterly dire- not everyone can be helped to a point where they actually want to live.

It also rests heavily on the idea that the suicidal person is too mentally incompetent to know their own mind to be able to make that decision. We therefore 'need' others to make the decision for us. That is pretty questionable too. In fact, it's incredibly patronising.

Even more so if they think it's perfectly acceptable to expect us to be able to 'perform' in high functioning jobs. Jobs that may actually mean life or death for other people! Lots of suicides in the police and medical fields.

To my mind- they shouldn't be able to have it both ways. Either all suicidal people are mentally incompetent and shouldn't be expected to do anything because we are incapable of rational thought. Especially responsible jobs. Or- we can in fact rationalise and therefore, are able to make autonmous decisions for ourselves and others. (I'm not ruling out that some suicides likely are committed under the influence of psychosis and- that does need to be ascertained.)

I guess my view is that- yes, likely most suicides will be stopped if possible and perhaps they should be- until the person can be assessed. They could be psychotic, they could be acting impulsively, they could be off their face on something. I'd also agree that the initial intention is likely altruistic. People want to help. People want to believe they can help.

Beyond that though, I think it becomes complicated. I'd argue that not everyone can be helped. Not everyone will want to be helped. If people truly considered and accepted that, I think they'd see that trying to keep those people alive isn't actually kind at all. It's actually pretty authoritarian and selfish.

I'd argue that the more likely truth is- it's based on wishful thinking. They simply hope that the person's life will get better. But- maybe they're willing to accept that it won't necessarily but, it doesn't really matter because- everyone struggles in life right? They just need to suck it up. So long as other people aren't inflicted with the grief of losing them, it's all ok. That isn't at all good for the suicidal person. It just prolongs their suffering.

I think attitudes need to change. I do actually believe in the phrase: 'If you truly love someone, you let them go.' Of course- it does need to be ascertained whether a person can or wants to be helped out of their suffering but like you said to begin with- some people do truly want to go.

It isn't kind to my mind to stop them. To limit their means of a peaceful death in the hopes that the more terrifying, painful and brutal methods will be enough to put them off. It isn't kind to emotionally blackmail them into staying for the sake of others. It isn't kind to dump them in a psyche ward and pump them full of drugs if they are desperate enough to attempt where people are able to stop them. If it's truly ascertained that they can't be helped or, don't want to accept help then, suicide prevention may well not 'help' them. It's a coin toss to my mind as to whether their life can improve.

I'd agree that the intention to prevent suicides may well largely be rooted in altruism. However, the mechanisms they use to achieve this are often a long way from kind. They in fact cross many borders of autonomy, respect, real understanding and just very basic human rights. Would the 'normies' fancy a strip search and being forced to take drugs because they did something they felt they had a right to do?

 

[justkatie]

Suicide lines are really a dice roll. I've knew a girl who called the line and it really helped her change her perspective on life. I've also known people who have been put on hold and other bad experiences. Seems like there's a lack of quality control

Mainly because they're staffed by volunteers I think and not all of them really care but just want to put something on their CV sadly.

 

[sevennn]

if they could cure my tinnitus i wouldn't attempt it. some situations are inescapable

 

[covwillgo]

chats are ok, still lack depths, main culmination of the whole convo is read this self help pdf, or go to therapist

 

[memoriesofyesterday]

I hate talking on the phone.

I would rather throw up during a job interview than talk on the phone endlessly.

ESPECIALLY with something so delicate like this.

Although, I can totally appreciate their efforts.

Do they even chat?

Is that a thing?

I've never bothered to go about this method.

 

[Unspoken7612]

I can't imagine calling the line in that kind of situation and getting put on hold that's one hell of a red flag at least to me.

Demand outstrips supply. I would expect to have to hold when calling.

The red flag would be if I was answered by a person who then put me back on hold, other than for "I am transferring you to someone qualified" after a quick chat.

I agree with pretty much all your points. Regarding the last paragraph though- I would agree that suicide prevention isn't always intended as a malicious act to inhibit liberty. However, when it comes to:

'Suicide prevention efforts are rooted in a belief that suicide is usually bad for everyone, and stopping it allows people to live longer lives, which is good. That belief might not always be true, and might lead to some suffering, but it is sincere, benevolent, and altruistic.'

Who does it benefit to keep people who are deeply suffering alive? Does it truly benefit them? I'd perhaps agree that the intention is altruistic. Based on the idea that everyone can be helped. Everyone can be 'saved' to go on and live a happy life. But, just simple common sense should show that for everyone, that won't be the case. Someone with an incurable illness of any kind- physical, mental, even severe cases of body dysphoria. Someone who's life situation is utterly dire- not everyone can be helped to a point where they actually want to live.

It also rests heavily on the idea that the suicidal person is too mentally incompetent to know their own mind to be able to make that decision. We therefore 'need' others to make the decision for us. That is pretty questionable too. In fact, it's incredibly patronising.

Even more so if they think it's perfectly acceptable to expect us to be able to 'perform' in high functioning jobs. Jobs that may actually mean life or death for other people! Lots of suicides in the police and medical fields.

To my mind- they shouldn't be able to have it both ways. Either all suicidal people are mentally incompetent and shouldn't be expected to do anything because we are incapable of rational thought. Especially responsible jobs. Or- we can in fact rationalise and therefore, are able to make autonmous decisions for ourselves and others. (I'm not ruling out that some suicides likely are committed under the influence of psychosis and- that does need to be ascertained.)

I guess my view is that- yes, likely most suicides will be stopped if possible and perhaps they should be- until the person can be assessed. They could be psychotic, they could be acting impulsively, they could be off their face on something. I'd also agree that the initial intention is likely altruistic. People want to help. People want to believe they can help.

Beyond that though, I think it becomes complicated. I'd argue that not everyone can be helped. Not everyone will want to be helped. If people truly considered and accepted that, I think they'd see that trying to keep those people alive isn't actually kind at all. It's actually pretty authoritarian and selfish.

I'd argue that the more likely truth is- it's based on wishful thinking. They simply hope that the person's life will get better. But- maybe they're willing to accept that it won't necessarily but, it doesn't really matter because- everyone struggles in life right? They just need to suck it up. So long as other people aren't inflicted with the grief of losing them, it's all ok. That isn't at all good for the suicidal person. It just prolongs their suffering.

I think attitudes need to change. I do actually believe in the phrase: 'If you truly love someone, you let them go.' Of course- it does need to be ascertained whether a person can or wants to be helped out of their suffering but like you said to begin with- some people do truly want to go.

It isn't kind to my mind to stop them. To limit their means of a peaceful death in the hopes that the more terrifying, painful and brutal methods will be enough to put them off. It isn't kind to emotionally blackmail them into staying for the sake of others. It isn't kind to dump them in a psyche ward and pump them full of drugs if they are desperate enough to attempt where people are able to stop them. If it's truly ascertained that they can't be helped or, don't want to accept help then, suicide prevention may well not 'help' them. It's a coin toss to my mind as to whether their life can improve.

I'd agree that the intention to prevent suicides may well largely be rooted in altruism. However, the mechanisms they use to achieve this are often a long way from kind. They in fact cross many borders of autonomy, respect, real understanding and just very basic human rights. Would the 'normies' fancy a strip search and being forced to take drugs because they did something they felt they had a right to do?

While I basically agree, and tried to include some of this nuance in my post, I think it's important to try and understand other people's perspectives, even when we think they're wrong. For some people, while they may or may not make exceptions for the terminally ill or those in untreatable pain, our condition is tragic. I guess a comparison is with drinking: yes, you have a right to be an alcoholic, but I can understand why some people want to stop others from becoming alcoholics. I think some people simply don't believe that anyone is truly hopeless. Most people who get depression get better, most people who survive a suicide attempt never make another. From inside my head, it is easy for me to imagine that my life will never be worth living, by my standard for myself, but other people who have a slightly different perspective could reasonably conclude that I would be happier if I slightly adjusted my mindset, had a bit of chemical support, and got the right breaks (rewarding job, fulfilling relationships, sense of purpose) then I might be one of the people who recovers.

And I'm someone for whom that narrative is probably relatively easy because I earn good money already. Those perma-optimists would probably rightly point out that many people in terrible situations - chronic pain, poverty, disability, unloved, unemployable, persecuted, unvalued, etc. - still find life worth living, so a suicidal person with those characteristics could do the same. Indeed, many of the people who most strongly support suicide prevention are precisely the sort of people who others would say would benefit from suicide. When others do not value your life, some people respond by very fiercely standing up for the downtrodden and insisting that all human life has value.

I'm a liberal, I believe people should be allowed to kill themselves if they want to (while also supporting efforts to help people through crises, and safeguarding people against coercion). But I do sympathise with people who disagree. They're not monsters. Their actions often cause suffering that I view as unnecessary, but I sincerely think that essentially all of them think that suicide prevention is genuinely good for the suicidal (although again, the biggest point of contention will be terminal illness).

 

[justkatie]

I hate talking on the phone.

I would rather throw up during a job interview than talk on the phone endlessly.

ESPECIALLY with something so delicate like this.

Although, I can totally appreciate their efforts.

Do they even chat?

Is that a thing?

I've never bothered to go about this method.

If you're looking for someone to listen and patronise *ahem sorry* understand by saying "That must be difficult for you" then I think they are helpful.

Genuinely that will help some people who feel they are completely alone but for anyone looking for anything a bit more practical, not so much.

 

[FadingSentinel]

Yeah I always hear about crisis lines they always get pushed in our faces but I couldn't help but always wonder how good they actually are at helping you.

 

[Unspoken7612]

I will say that there's a big difference between generic phone lines for suicidal people, which dramatically depending on the charity's goals (I think SaSuers will like Samaritans, which strictly doesn't offer advice or try to prevent suicide, whereas some call themselves "Suicide Prevention" and are very different), and then the sorts of crisis lines I was talking about, which are run by government health services and which will actually refer you for treatment or hospitalise you.

 

[axab43]

if they could cure my tinnitus i wouldn't attempt it. some situations are inescapable

I have tinnitus. Have you had counselling about it? There are some times when the tinnitus sounds louder than others, but the trick seems to be to just accepting it is there and getting on with your life and it becomes almost like background noise. When I first had it, I was really upset by it and then it seemed much louder.

 

[sevennn]

I have tinnitus. Have you had counselling about it? There are some times when the tinnitus sounds louder than others, but the trick seems to be to just accepting it is there and getting on with your life and it becomes almost like background noise. When I first had it, I was really upset by it and then it seemed much louder.

no. don't give advice. i have reactive. reactive tinnitus = hell. even worse. had tinnitus for 10 years. habituated normal. tinnitus. ENDLESS potential to turn to hell. get worse. have hiperacusis now too. think have ear deafness too. maybe. so don't give advice. hurts. was like you. cant go back now

 

[divinemistress36]

I'd rather come here and get real advice from real people who have been through real shit not some college kid on suicide line who is going to give me generic advice

 

[RoseGarden]

the times i've talked to a hotline they've been either downright useless and cold, or outright hostile and demeaning. They asked if I wanted to talk to a crisis team and I said that I didn't, because I've had bad experiences with them in the past. They said ok, go to the ER. The ER has been even worse to me. The moment the systems they tell you to rely on fail they just hang up and say they can't do anything. It's like I'm being pushed through a checklist.

 

[SilentSadness]

Suicide hotlines are a very manipulative idea from the start, they're asking people who were traumatised from the actions of others to put their trust in strangers, who have a track record of calling the police on those who call them. That's insane, I would never recommend calling one because they don't want to help anyone, that's not their purpose and it's not how they operate. If something bad happens, it's dangerous because no one will be defending you. A lot of hotlines are funded in order to reduce suicide rates because they think it looks good on a spreadsheet, that's the real reason why they exist. People should not be gaslighted into believing that it's their fault for not trying hard enough when a hotline operator lets them down. It's basically a platitude to say to call the crisis line when you're feeling suicidal, actually it's gaslighting.

 

[TAW122]

You make very interesting points about what the CTB prevention hotline's purposes and intentions are. I personally have NEVER called one NOR will I ever call one! There are only drawbacks and more harm, more suffering for me if I ever did so. I've done enough research as well as have heard more than enough stories to know how harmful and damaging they can be.

I agree with @uglyugly as well as @HereTomorrow with what the CTB prevention does, and for me, I do fall under the second scenario, I DON'T want to be saved nor risk intervention (law enforcement, moral busybodies, and/other heroes), and I've made up my mind on CTB'ing, just a matter of time and circumstance (as always). I don't consider my attempt (whenever that happens in the future) to be impulsive either, and would be carefully planned and executed.

@Forever Sleep made lots of good points and pretty much highlighted the main motivation for the CTB preventionists, their root in altriusm and the belief that they are doing a good thing and only looking at preventing the result (they consider it a victory on their end if said person ended up not CTB'ing later on, regardless of the consequences, quality of life and welfare of that individual.) I also agree that it is unkind to keep people sentient and alive against their will for the sake of others, for the sake of appeasing one's atavistic morals and ethics, and with no regard for an individual's civil liberties and personal autonomy. It is indeed authoritarian and selfish to do so.

 

[yabujin]

Yeah you might get cops instead jfl

 

[Can’tbearanything]

The main crisis line here in the UK doesn't actually have the power to stop you doing anything unless they think you are a risk to someone vulnerable. They just listen to you. Not saying it's necessarily helpful for everyone or anything, I've never personally found them very helpful, but they won't call the police or hospitalise you just for feeling suicidal.

 

[*Winter-Volume*]

I called a crisis hotline once. I find it's like having a low grade therapy assessment. I don't share my feelings, so they didn't really know why I called. If you don't share, no one can help you. I have a secret that I'm probably going to take to the grave. I don't even know what it is. I lie to myself. No one knows what's going on with me. No hotline would ever send cops. They would never suspect I was ill. That's why I want to kill myself; loneliness at the extreme.

 

[Unspoken7612]

The main crisis line here in the UK doesn't actually have the power to stop you doing anything unless they think you are a risk to someone vulnerable. They just listen to you. Not saying it's necessarily helpful for everyone or anything, I've never personally found them very helpful, but they won't call the police or hospitalise you just for feeling suicidal.

I am not talking about the Samaritans, which is not a crisis line. I'm happy to call the Samaritans.

I am also not talking about other charities. I am talking about crisis lines run by mental health teams.