Discussion Muslims with suicidal ideation?

[Dante_]

Please, for the sake of op, be respectful. Thank you.

 

[PainThreshold]

It is pretty much one of my source of anguish, now you might find comfort in it but i don't see anything comforting of having my self worth be determined by my allegiance to god, i said this as someone who was forced to believe in it.

 

[pumpkinboy]

If someone found solace in fantasizing about pedophilia or rape or murder would you be saying the same?

Aight you a problem get outta here

 

[zdeweilx]

I really don't understand can't you read or what I was saying at the end of the post? Disrespectful comments are not allowed here.
The Prophet was also a human being like all other people; he is not a god and he was not infallible.he also can feel emotional distress in hard situations +This was before the prophethood.
Islam is not a "business"?? I really don't care what your beliefs are but be respectful for other's beliefs or shut up.

Yes it used to be a business. Muhammad forced people to convert to islam so they could help him out stealing other people's goods and money. Stay polite or keep your mouth shut, it seems you don't even know that much about your own religion.

Yes, and those could be considered spiritual trials to people of practically any religion. Islam isn't a business, I don't agree with Islam myself but that doesn't make it okay to spread lies. People have a right to believe in what they want and if it gives them the strength to live…that's a good thing.

The earliest biography (sirat) of Muhammad's life is the work of Ibn Ishaq (85-151 A.H.) who was born in Medina. In this we learn of Muhammad's actions after he had conquered the towns of Khaybar. This event is also accepted and recorded by Ibn Kathir.

THE REST OF THE AFFAIR OF KHAYBAR: Kinana b. al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (T. was brought) to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle (Muhammad) gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has," so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad, (tr. A. Guillaume), Karachi: Oxford University Press, 1998, p. 515.)

This action of Muhammad teaches us a very important point about his character. He was the type of man who used torture to achieve his goals. In this case he wanted the treasure of the tribe of al-Nadir. The custodian of the treasure would not give it to him, therefore Muhammad gave the order to have him tortured. Muhammad's companions knew how to torture someone and proceeded to do so.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

Islam never made sense to me. Suicide is prohibited by 'God' but at the same time death is constantly being referred to as a gate towards eternal bliss and happiness. Also their main prophet suffered from severe suicidal urges and almost killed himself more than once.

That's inaccurate. What is attested in the Qur'an is that Muhammad did have suicidal thoughts at times; his life and ministry were very difficult. For example, 26:3 "Perhaps, [O Muhammad], you would kill yourself with grief that they will not be believers."

There is no evidence he ever attempted suicide (besides perhaps a weak hadith with poor transmission that starts "according to what we have heard" or "according to hearsay", he went to the tops of mountains and intended to jump off, but was reassured each time by an angel that he was the messenger of God and his revelations would continue. But that bit is added by a later historian called Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri.)

We know that Muhammad denounced suicide, there is a reliable hadith for example that says, "Whoever throws himself from a mountain and kills himself will be in the Fire of Hell falling down into it forever. Whoever drinks poison and kills himself will carry his poison in his hand and drink it in the Fire of Hell forever. Whoever kills himself with a piece of iron will carry that iron in his hand and stab himself in the abdomen in the Fire of Hell forever."

But Muhammad was not always right about everything, and often emphasises that Allah's wisdom, knowledge, and judgement are far greater than his own. It is also known that when people in his community committed suicide, he refused to personally lead the prayers for them, but did allow others to pray for them.

The suggestion that whoever commits suicide will have to do the means of suicide repeatedly in Hell raises some questions though. What about people who kill themselves using substances like opiates or gas, means which are relatively peaceful and can even be euphoric? So I think such statements are probably just metaphorical or intended as warnings.

The Qur'an is the ultimate authority in Islam, and it does not make clear any punishment for suicide. It only says about suicide in 4:29, "Do not kill yourselves, surely Allah is Ever Merciful to you." Elsewhere, God's mercy is often emphasised.
39:53 "Say, 'O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.'

 

[zdeweilx]

That's inaccurate. What is attested in the Qur'an is that Muhammad did have suicidal thoughts at times; his life and ministry were very difficult. For example, 26:3 "Perhaps, [O Muhammad], you would kill yourself with grief that they will not be believers."

There is no evidence he ever attempted suicide (besides perhaps a weak hadith with poor transmission that starts "according to what we have heard" or "according to hearsay", he went to the tops of mountains and intended to jump off, but was reassured each time by an angel that he was the messenger of God and his revelations would continue. But that bit is added by a later historian called Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri.)

We know that Muhammad denounced suicide, and he did say somewhere for example, "Whoever throws himself from a mountain and kills himself will be in the Fire of Hell falling down into it forever. Whoever drinks poison and kills himself will carry his poison in his hand and drink it in the Fire of Hell forever. Whoever kills himself with a piece of iron will carry that iron in his hand and stab himself in the abdomen in the Fire of Hell forever."

But Muhammad was not always right about everything, and often emphasises that Allah's wisdom, knowledge, and judgement are far greater than his own. It is also known that when people in his community committed suicide, he refused to personally lead the prayers for them, but did allow others to pray for them.

The suggestion that whoever commits suicide will have to do the means of suicide repeatedly in Hell raises some questions though. What about people who kill themselves using substances like opiates or gas, means which are relatively peaceful and can even be euphoric? So I think such statements are probably just metaphorical or intended as warnings.

The Qur'an is the ultimate authority in Islam, and it does not make clear any punishment for suicide. It only says about suicide in 4:29, "Do not kill yourselves, surely Allah is Ever Merciful to you." Elsewhere, God's mercy is often emphasised.
39:53 "Say, 'O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.'

Sorry, but your statement is not accurate.

In Sahih al-Bukhari, Book of Interpretation (Kitab al-Ta'bir), Hadith 6467, there is a lengthy narration. The portion relevant to our discussion is as follows:

"فَتَرَ الْوَحْيُ فَتْرَةً حَتَّى حَزِنَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ … كَيْ يَتَرَدَّى مِنْ رُءُوسِ شَوَاهِقِ الْجِبَالِ، فَكُلَّمَا أَوْفَى بِذِرْوَةِ جَبَلٍ لِكَيْ يُلْقِيَ مِنْهُ نَفْسَهُ تَبَدَّى لَهُ جِبْرِيلُ فَقَالَ يَا مُحَمَّدُ إِنَّكَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ حَقًّا، فَيَسْكُنُ لِذَلِكَ جَأْشُهُ وَتَقِرُّ نَفْسُهُ، فَيَرْجِعُ۔"

Translation:
Revelation paused for a period, until the Prophet ﷺ became sad… He thought about throwing himself from the peaks of mountains. Whenever he reached a mountain top intending to throw himself from it, Jibril عليه السلام would appear to him and say: "O Muhammad! You are indeed the true Messenger of Allah." Then his heart would find peace, and he would return.

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Kitab al-Ta'bir, Hadith 6467)

 

[OzymandiAsh]

Sorry, but your statement is not accurate.

In Sahih al-Bukhari, Book of Interpretation (Kitab al-Ta'bir), Hadith 6467, there is a lengthy narration. The portion relevant to our discussion is as follows:

"فَتَرَ الْوَحْيُ فَتْرَةً حَتَّى حَزِنَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ … كَيْ يَتَرَدَّى مِنْ رُءُوسِ شَوَاهِقِ الْجِبَالِ، فَكُلَّمَا أَوْفَى بِذِرْوَةِ جَبَلٍ لِكَيْ يُلْقِيَ مِنْهُ نَفْسَهُ تَبَدَّى لَهُ جِبْرِيلُ فَقَالَ يَا مُحَمَّدُ إِنَّكَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ حَقًّا، فَيَسْكُنُ لِذَلِكَ جَأْشُهُ وَتَقِرُّ نَفْسُهُ، فَيَرْجِعُ۔"

Translation:
Revelation paused for a period, until the Prophet ﷺ became sad… He thought about throwing himself from the peaks of mountains. Whenever he reached a mountain top intending to throw himself from it, Jibril عليه السلام would appear to him and say: "O Muhammad! You are indeed the true Messenger of Allah." Then his heart would find peace, and he would return.

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Kitab al-Ta'bir, Hadith 6467)

Pretty sure that's what I just said. Your statement that Muhammad "almost killed himself more than once" is not accurate, and I politely corrected you; he did not attempt to jump off mountains and kill himself, although he may have thought about it.

Anyway, I'm not engaging with you because you are obviously an Islamophobic troll whose only purpose here is to make Muslims who are suicidal here feel even worse about themselves.

If you want to do that, then as many people who have tried to be patient with you have already said, start another thread. You've been asked to do this several times and take your disrespect away from this thread and to another one, where you can vent your uneducated drivel as much as you like. Why won't you?

 

[zdeweilx]

Pretty sure that's what I just said. Anyway, I'm not engaging with you because you are obviously an Islamophobic troll whose only purpose here is to make Muslims feel bad about themselves. If you want to do that, then as many people who have tried to be patient with you have already said, start another thread. You've been asked to do this several times and take your disrespect away from this thread and to another one, where you can vent your uneducated drivel as much as you like. Why won't you?

Why are you getting so aggressive ? I was just pointing out that the link between islam and suicide is the perfect allegory of what a love-hate relationship is, nothing more. The act of commiting suicide is both blamed by islam but also endorsed by its highest spiritual authority at the same time.

I'm not a troll and i have no animosity against islam or muslims as a whole. But i'll just stop answering from now because you guys seem to hold a lot of hatred inside you for some reason.

 

[thefarter]

You have your sanity, you are conscious and aware that suicide is a sin in your religion yet you decide to do it anyway for your own comfort. You think you're smarter than your god and can fool him?

interesting that u interpreted my reply that way

yeah im aware suicide is a sin, however i am not sane. i say that with complete conviction. i have, without a single doubt, lost touch with reality. i have no idea what is real and what is not. in moments like this, when i am sat overthinking about my entire existence and whether hundreds of thousands of people are 'on my case', and have seen my entire doxxed existence, suicide is VERY difficult to not impulsively act on lol. honestly i can't really put it into words to make u understand; Allah SWT is the only one who knows exactly what is going on in my brain, and He is most forgiving and most merciful so i assume i will not burn for eternity when i eventually spiral even further into my insanity and kill myself.

i am not trying to fool Allah SWT.. what are u even saying bro..

 

[OzymandiAsh]

Why are you getting so aggressive ? I was just pointing out that the link between islam and suicide is the perfect allegory of what a love-hate relationship is, nothing more. The act of commiting suicide is both blamed by islam but also endorsed by its highest spiritual authority at the same time.

I'm not a troll and i have no animosity against islam or muslims as a whole. But i'll just stop answering from now because you guys seem to hold a lot of hatred inside you for some reason.

You also edited out the part where you said "Anyway time to blackpill some of you moozlims".

You are an Islamophobe, and sadly you are nothing more than the generic internet Islamophobe who is everywhere these days. You don't care about the actual history or facts and it is plain for us all to see, you probably spend hours looking for any evidence to pull out of context and incriminate us like the rest of your Islamophobic folk. It's pathetic and boring.

 

[zdeweilx]

You also edited out the part where you said "Anyway time to blackpill some of you moozlims".

You are an Islamophobe, and sadly you are nothing more than the generic internet Islamophobe who is everywhere these days. You don't care about the actual history or facts and it is plain for us all to see, you probably spend hours looking for any evidence to pull out of context and incriminate us like the rest of your Islamophobic folk. It's pathetic and boring.

How am i islamophobic if the only thing i'm doing is quoting verses and hadiths. Anyway think what you want, i'm not the hateful one here

 

[thefarter]

How am i islamophobic if the only thing i'm doing is quoting verses and hadiths. Anyway think what you want, i'm not the hateful one here

i didn't get ur point btw. like so what if the prophet PBUH felt suicidal at times. what is the point ur trying to make

If someone found solace in fantasizing about pedophilia or rape or murder would you be saying the same?

girl what are you saying.. all those things are haram (forbidden) in Islam..

 

[OzymandiAsh]

i didn't get ur point btw. like so what if the prophet PBUH felt suicidal at times. what is the point ur trying to make

girl what are you saying.. all those things are haram (forbidden) in Islam..

Better to just put them both on ignore list, tbh. As many have already pointed out to them, if they want to critique and disrespect Islam and/or other religions, they can make another thread for that so this one can stay on track.

 

[zdeweilx]

i didn't get ur point btw. like so what if the prophet PBUH felt suicidal at times. what is the point ur trying to make

My point was that OP shouldn't feel bad for thinking about doing something their own prophet envisioned doing.. as simple as that

 

[Kanoh]

Aight you a problem get outta here

If you got a problem, go fix it.

interesting that u interpreted my reply that way

yeah im aware suicide is a sin, however i am not sane. i say that with complete conviction. i have, without a single doubt, lost touch with reality. i have no idea what is real and what is not. in moments like this, when i am sat overthinking about my entire existence and whether hundreds of thousands of people are 'on my case', and have seen my entire doxxed existence, suicide is VERY difficult to not impulsively act on lol. honestly i can't really put it into words to make u understand; Allah SWT is the only one who knows exactly what is going on in my brain, and He is most forgiving and most merciful so i assume i will not burn for eternity when i eventually spiral even further into my insanity and kill myself.

i am not trying to fool Allah SWT.. what are u even saying bro..

If he is the smartest and all knowing, then how do you know what he will decide? If he decides you were sane after all and in control of your actions, you're cooked. So you're playing a dangerous game here bro.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

If you got a problem, go fix it.

If he is the smartest and all knowing, then how do you know what he will decide? If he decides you were sane after all and in control of your actions, you're cooked. So you're playing a dangerous game here bro.

You are already on my ignore list because I think you are largely worth ignoring and not responding to, but I can't help correct you lol. Actually he just gave you a legitimate Islamic perspective.

"The pen has been lifted from three: the sleeping person until he awakens, the child until he reaches puberty, and the insane person until he regains sanity."

Mental illness reduces responsibility for sins Islam, including the sin of suicide. Someone who commits suicide while very mentally ill is held less accountable. Islam was one of the first systems to recognise and treat mental illness as a serious factor in law and morality.

This is the problem when non-Muslims, particularly ignorant and disrespectful ones, try to chime in in a thread that is clearly addressed to Muslims and their perspectives, beliefs, and experiences about suicide. You are not educated enough about this, so your comments are neither interesting nor welcome in this thread.

The topic of the thread, for those who can read, is "Muslims with suicidal ideation". Unless you have something respectful and informed to contribute, shut up. You are very clearly not here to engage in good faith.

 

[aufrechtm7]

How insufferable can a damn suicide forum get

 

[Kanoh]

You are already on my ignore list because I think you are largely worth ignoring and not responding to, but I can't help correct you lol. Actually he just gave you a legitimate Islamic perspective.

"The pen has been lifted from three: the sleeping person until he awakens, the child until he reaches puberty, and the insane person until he regains sanity."

Mental illness reduces responsibility for sins Islam, including the sin of suicide. Someone who commits suicide while very mentally ill is held less accountable. Islam was one of the first systems to recognise and treat mental illness as a serious factor in law and morality.

This is the problem when non-Muslims, particularly ignorant and disrespectful ones, try to chime in in a thread that is clearly addressed to Muslims and their perspectives, beliefs, and experiences about suicide. You are not educated enough about this, so your comments are neither interesting nor welcome in this thread.

The topic of the thread, for those who can read, is "Muslims with suicidal ideation". Unless you have something respectful and informed to contribute, shut up. You are very clearly not here to engage in good faith.

"Very mentally ill" - who decides where is the drawn line between mentally ill enough to be forgiven and otherwise? Did the desert god give you a chart of mental illnesses qualifying for 72 little girls in heaven? Or you interpret this by yourselves however you like to fit your narrative at the specific moment like you do with your hadiths?


PS if you block me, keep it that way and don't bother me with your replies. Go seek attention somewhere else because for me you are a waste of time in this situation and I'm not interested in you or anything you have to say.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

"Very mentally ill" - who decides where is the drawn line between mentally ill enough to be forgiven and otherwise? Did the desert god give you a chart of mental illnesses qualifying for 72 little girls in heaven? Or you interpret this by yourselves however you like to fit your narrative at the specific moment like you do with your hadiths?


PS if you block me, keep it that way and don't bother me with your replies. Go seek attention somewhere else because for me you are a waste of time in this situation and I'm not interested in you or anything you have to say.

Listen, I know it's not like you have a very big brain (or a big heart, or a big anything, for that matter)... but common sense would seem to suggest that many people who commit suicide do so because they are suffering from serious mental illness. Which is, again, a factor that any genuine, serious Muslim perspective takes into account, however much halfwits like yourself want to simplify and water them down and pretend like they don't or can't.

Complex, considered attitudes towards suicide can and do exist in Islam, as they can and do exist in other religions. If you can't comprehend that and don't like it, once again, start another thread, which no one will be interested in besides other annoying trolls like yourself. You can all meet up together and have a big ugly troll party there where you all agree on how much better and smarter you are to religious people, and you won't have to suffer educated responses because no one who knows anything like me will be interested in feeding your pre-baked, pre-formed regurgitations and embarrassingly black or white hot takes.

Finally, it already says clearly in the OP:

"I rarely see religious people talk about their suicide ideation And I don't think it's helpful. I think all people can become depressed and hopeless regardless of their religion or beliefs .

Please be respectful while sharing your thoughts if you hate islam/god just don't reply and move on"

 

[rainwillneverstop]

A mod has already commented.

Stay on topic otherwise start your own thread if you wish to discuss Islam.

 

[pumpkinboy]

If you got a problem, go fix it.

If he is the smartest and all knowing, then how do you know what he will decide? If he decides you were sane after all and in control of your actions, you're cooked. So you're playing a dangerous game here bro.

I don't got a problem you do and you just going to argue get outta here you aren't changing the minds of anyone you are just going to look like an asshole