Is there any resources / guidance on standing partial hanging?

[ifihadnever]

Hi,

I've been trying to make a FSH work but it's coming to light my ligature point might not have enough height and end in a standing partial. I wasn't looking at partial as FSH would be preference but before I totally give up on hanging I thought I'd just look in to standing partial and see if it's something I feel would be do-able.

Is there any resources / guides to standing partial? I've used the key search and can find lots of general partial guides but not standing in partial and unsure how the standing works. I think most don't go for standing which is maybe why I can't find much?

Also, seen some videos with the 'aftermath' of standing but not 100% how they got to that stage.

Just thought I'd ask if anyone knew much about it or if there's already some post / links to standing position someone could direct me too?

Thanks for any help / guidance!

 

[DeniedPeace]

I'm interested in this too.

 

[ifihadnever]

I'm interested in this too.

I still haven't found much info. only on kneeling or sitting partials. if you've found anything do let me know. thanks

 

[JesiBel]

It is not a guide in itself, but the experiment (4:25 min) carried out with the young volunteer shows a Partial Hanging scene in a standing position.

The young volunteer, with the ligature around her neck, leans forward and puts all her weight down to apply pressure.

It even contains a video of an actual (accidental) Partial Hanging death (8:30 min) in that same position.

Here the woman drops herself from a small platform where she was standing, abruptly applying all her weight with the ligature already around her neck.

(Warning!, sensitive material) Similar cases to this one:

Spoiler

You need -1 more posts to view this content

The full video is worth watching. It is very informative about how quickly consciousness is lost when oxygenated blood flow to the brain is cut off due to the ligature compression and the blockage of all vessels and structures in the neck.

Youtu be link (you must have an account to access) / Mirror link

Spoiler: These threads might also be helpful:

Brief summary of some points in the Hanging method

Partial Hanging, brief summary: losing consciousness, postures, reviewing common problems

Partial hanging videos (there are some posts with material in that thread)

 

[ifihadnever]

It is not a guide in itself, but the experiment (4:25 min) carried out with the young volunteer shows a Partial Hanging scene in a standing position.

The young volunteer, with the ligature around her neck, leans forward and puts all her weight down to apply pressure.

It even contains a video of an actual (accidental) Partial Hanging death (8:30 min) in that same position.

Here the woman drops herself from a small platform where she was standing, abruptly applying all her weight with the ligature already around her neck.

(Warning!, sensitive material) Similar cases to this one:

Spoiler

[Hidden content]

The full video is worth watching. It is very informative about how quickly consciousness is lost when oxygenated blood flow to the brain is cut off due to the ligature compression and the blockage of all vessels and structures in the neck.

Youtu be link (you must have an account to access) / Mirror link

Spoiler: These threads might also be helpful:

Brief summary of some points in the Hanging method

Partial Hanging, brief summary: losing consciousness, postures, reviewing common problems

Partial hanging videos (there are some posts with material in that thread)

Thank you for this. It is very informative and helpful. I was trying to find out info on standing partial incase my FSH (which may not have quite enough height) ended up turning into a standing partial so I could be prepared. It does feel a little risky. Even with a standing partial it seems the ligature does stretch a fair bit. I may have to recalculate and measure again. Thank you for your help and taking the time to respond.

 

[JesiBel]

Thank you for this. It is very informative and helpful. I was trying to find out info on standing partial incase my FSH (which may not have quite enough height) ended up turning into a standing partial so I could be prepared. It does feel a little risky. Even with a standing partial it seems the ligature does stretch a fair bit. I may have to recalculate and measure again. Thank you for your help and taking the time to respond.

This is the full video (warning!) of the accidental Partial Hanging death.

It appears that she used a kind of elastic fabric for the ligature, and when all her weight is applied in the fall, it stretches quite a bit.

Leaving accidental cases aside.

Using a rope, it is also possible that it can stretches a little by the knots adjusting themselves to the maximum due to the weight of the suspended body, and the rope penetrating the neck and reducing its circumference. (Static ropes have very low/minimal stretch)

I think the key is to lose consciousness quickly using a self tightening knot for the ligature. The body may then move involuntarily (as can be seen in the video) but with the ligature exerting uninterrupted compression (since there is no way for it to untie or loosen) it is only a matter of time before death occurs.
Then it no longer matters if the body end completely suspended or if feet touch the ground.

In fact, many of the photos or videos that show Partial Hangings in a standing position may have originally been intended as Full S. Hangings. And because the material used for the ligature stretched, they remained in that position.

But if you think it's better and safer to just go for FSH without height complications maybe it's a good idea to look for another higher place. Being confident and without doubts is also important.

 

[ifihadnever]

This is the full video (warning!) of the accidental Partial Hanging death.

It appears that she used a kind of elastic fabric for the ligature, and when all her weight is applied in the fall, it stretches quite a bit.

Leaving accidental cases aside.

Using a rope, it is also possible that it can stretches a little by the knots adjusting themselves to the maximum due to the weight of the suspended body, and the rope penetrating the neck and reducing its circumference. (Static ropes have very low/minimal stretch)

I think the key is to lose consciousness quickly using a self tightening knot for the ligature. The body may then move involuntarily (as can be seen in the video) but with the ligature exerting uninterrupted compression (since there is no way for it to untie or loosen) it is only a matter of time before death occurs.
Then it no longer matters if the body end completely suspended or if feet touch the ground.

In fact, many of the photos or videos that show Partial Hangings in a standing position may have originally been intended as Full S. Hangings. And because the material used for the ligature stretched, they remained in that position.

But if you think it's better and safer to just go for FSH without height complications maybe it's a good idea to look for another higher place. Being confident and without doubts is also important.

Thank you.

Yes, I agree - it's a situation you want to be confident in. I had wondered myself if some of the videos I've watched (showing something in a standing position) where actual intended FHS but ligature / rope etc stretched. Like you say, not a problem if unconscious before you hit the ground.

Could I ask a quick question - in fsh unconscious is pretty quick? Would you say about 20 seconds? Or more?

Thanks for your help!

 

[JesiBel]

Could I ask a quick question - in fsh unconscious is pretty quick? Would you say about 20 seconds? Or more?

Thanks for your help!

Comparing the videos and information, consciousness is generally lost before 15 seconds. You could consider 20 seconds as a maximum, but those cases are less frequent.

• Agonal sequences in filmed Hangings: 2 research pdfs

Article:

"Abrupt stoppage of arterial supply to the brain generally results in unconsciousness in around 5-11 seconds. If all these arteries are suddenly occluded and the compression is maintained, hanging does not show any facial congestion, edema or petechiae."

• Book: Forensic pathology of asphyxial deaths by Dr. Sudhir K. Gupta

For this reason, the correct positioning of the ligature is crucial, and both carotid arteries must be properly blocked.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Hi,

I've been trying to make a FSH work but it's coming to light my ligature point might not have enough height and end in a standing partial. I wasn't looking at partial as FSH would be preference but before I totally give up on hanging I thought I'd just look in to standing partial and see if it's something I feel would be do-able.

Is there any resources / guides to standing partial? I've used the key search and can find lots of general partial guides but not standing in partial and unsure how the standing works. I think most don't go for standing which is maybe why I can't find much?

Also, seen some videos with the 'aftermath' of standing but not 100% how they got to that stage.

Just thought I'd ask if anyone knew much about it or if there's already some post / links to standing position someone could direct me too?

Thanks for any help / guidance!

As you need more willpower for partial hanging because you can stand up when your survival instinct kicks in. So I would try to hang full if as far as possible. I know the problem with the hight as I am rather tall. The minimum height for full suspension is your body height. It means your anchor point is just touching the top of your head. In this case you need an unconventional hanging set up. Some full hangings look like partial when the tiptoes just touch the ground, but in this position you have no chance to stand up in a way that the pressure on your neck is released sufficiantly, so it´s full hanging.
If the height of your anchor point is lower than your body height you can still hogtie your legs.

 

[ifihadnever]

As you need more willpower for partial hanging because you can stand up when your survival instinct kicks in. So I would try to hang full if as far as possible. I know the problem with the hight as I am rather tall. The minimum height for full suspension is your body height. It means your anchor point is just touching the top of your head. In this case you need an unconventional hanging set up. Some full hangings look like partial when the tiptoes just touch the ground, but in this position you have no chance to stand up in a way that the pressure on your neck is released sufficiantly, so it´s full hanging.
If the height of your anchor point is lower than your body height you can still hogtie your legs.

Thank you, my point is just below 1.5foot above me but have to account for knots and ligature stretch. When practicing with knots, I think I have about a foot. It's not ideal - if it were 2ft above me I'd feel more comfortable. I guess I ask myself the question.. ..do I want to take the risk? Like you say, even if I end up on tiptoes it's still off the floor....

 

[AreWeWinning]

Some full hangings look like partial when the tiptoes just touch the ground, but in this position you have no chance to stand up in a way that the pressure on your neck is released sufficiantly, so it´s full hanging.

I see where you're coming from, and it's true that there's a lot of pressure on the neck when only the toes touch the ground – almost as much as with full suspension – but we still shouldn't call it full suspension, because it isn't. When the feet or any body parts touch the ground or any object beneath the person, it's called partial hanging (or incomplete hanging or incomplete suspension).

Full suspension (also called complete suspension or complete hanging) is when there's no contact between the feet and the ground, and the body is completely suspended in the air. This isn't a question of opinion or interpretation either. There's a clear distinction, and this is something that forensic and medical studies agree on.

I guess I ask myself the question.. ..do I want to take the risk? Like you say, even if I end up on tiptoes it's still off the floor....

I think if only your toes touch the ground at the end, that's quite a good setup. As @Gustav Hartmann said, you don't really have a chance of standing up, which is the main risk in my opinion. I.e. if you can't stand up within the first couple of minutes (whether voluntarily or involuntarily) death is as certain as with full suspension, practically speaking, because there's still enough tension.

The image below shows the approximate ligature tension in various partial hanging positions as a percentage of body weight. Note that the coloured overlay and the text in blue are my additions and not part of the original. (Source: Calculation of tension exerted on a ligature in incomplete hanging, 2001, Vladislav D. Khokhlov)

Spoiler: Ligature tension in partial hanging

 

[ifihadnever]

I see where you're coming from, and it's true that there's a lot of pressure on the neck when only the toes touch the ground – almost as much as with full suspension – but we still shouldn't call it full suspension, because it isn't. When the feet or any body parts touch the ground or any object beneath the person, it's called partial hanging (or incomplete hanging or incomplete suspension).

Full suspension (also called complete suspension or complete hanging) is when there's no contact between the feet and the ground, and the body is completely suspended in the air. This isn't a question of opinion or interpretation either. There's a clear distinction, and this is something that forensic and medical studies agree on.



I think if only your toes touch the ground at the end, that's quite a good setup. As @Gustav Hartmann said, you don't really have a chance of standing up, which is the main risk in my opinion. I.e. if you can't stand up within the first couple of minutes (whether voluntarily or involuntarily) death is as certain as with full suspension, practically speaking, because there's still enough tension.

The image below shows the approximate ligature tension in various partial hanging positions as a percentage of body weight. Note that the coloured overlay and the text in blue are my additions and not part of the original. (Source: Calculation of tension exerted on a ligature in incomplete hanging, 2001, Vladislav D. Khokhlov)

Spoiler: Ligature tension in partial hanging

View attachment 186253

Thank you for your response and info. I am trying to make it a FSH. But as we discussed before I've got about a foot - 1.5 foot between floor and top point. Potentially possible, ive done all I can to practice with weights and it looks like I would still be off the floor - not by much but enough. It just could obviously be more higher risk than someone who had 2 foot height for the ligature to stretch (if it did that much). I just wanted to work out if I did attempt and was near the floor my best bet of success then - say it ended up becoming a standing partial. Which I wouldnt want but at least I'm standing so more chances of success. That being said, if I attempt FHS and end up standing I won't be able to get out of it so could be a right mess. I'm 'nearly' confident that full suspension is possible with what I have....but I have to ask myself do I want to be 'nearly' confidential in a method such as this. I think we all will always have reservations that creep in. I've been learning the best I can. Thank you for your reply and information. Has been helpful, as always.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

I see where you're coming from, and it's true that there's a lot of pressure on the neck when only the toes touch the ground – almost as much as with full suspension – but we still shouldn't call it full suspension, because it isn't. When the feet or any body parts touch the ground or any object beneath the person, it's called partial hanging (or incomplete hanging or incomplete suspension).

Full suspension (also called complete suspension or complete hanging) is when there's no contact between the feet and the ground, and the body is completely suspended in the air. This isn't a question of opinion or interpretation either. There's a clear distinction, and this is something that forensic and medical studies agree on.



I think if only your toes touch the ground at the end, that's quite a good setup. As @Gustav Hartmann said, you don't really have a chance of standing up, which is the main risk in my opinion. I.e. if you can't stand up within the first couple of minutes (whether voluntarily or involuntarily) death is as certain as with full suspension, practically speaking, because there's still enough tension.

The image below shows the approximate ligature tension in various partial hanging positions as a percentage of body weight. Note that the coloured overlay and the text in blue are my addizjtions and not part of the original. (Source: Calculation of tension exerted on a ligature in incomplete hanging, 2001, Vladislav D. Khokhlov)

Spoiler: Ligature tension in partial hanging

View attachment 186253

I have read many forensic studies and found two things:
1. In many cases they copy from one another.
2. There is a lot of bullshit written down.

Bullshit don't becomes true if it is multiplied, so I give a damn on definitions that are illogical or not applicable in my opinion.

Forensic experts and suicides have completly different view points. The first assess what they find after a suicide and the latter plan their suicide. If I intend to hang full and end with my tiptoes on the ground it is still full hanging. I choose full hanging if I don't want to be able to stop the process, if I want a clear point of no return. Whether my tiptoes touch the ground or not is totally irrelevant for me.

Many corps are found after some days and during this time the neck muscles have elongated. So the feet are completly off the ground when the person died but thouch the ground when the body is found. Stastistics record it as partial hanging.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Thank you, my point is just below 1.5foot above me but have to account for knots and ligature stretch. When practicing with knots, I think I have about a foot. It's not ideal - if it were 2ft above me I'd feel more comfortable. I guess I ask myself the question.. ..do I want to take the risk? Like you say, even if I end up on tiptoes it's still off the floor....

If you don't use a bungee-rope, ligature stretch is neglegibel especially if the rope is short, what it should be in your case. It is the constriction of your neck caused by the rope that causes an inevitable drop of about 20 cm. You can reduce this drop if you use a fixed loop instead of a constricting noose. You can also avoid knots wich consume vertical distance. If your anchor point is for example a horizontal beam like a pull up bar you only have tie the rope very tight around your neck and this bar. The rope is like a tourniquet and the bar is like the tourniquet-stick, but you don't twist this stick, you hang from it. This way you also have a fixed loop instead of a noose. So 1,5 foot above you is more than sufficient.

 

[ifihadnever]

If you don't use a bungee-rope, ligature stretch is neglegibel especially if the rope is short, what it should be in your case. It is the constriction of your neck caused by the rope that causes an inevitable drop of about 20 cm. You can reduce this drop if you use a fixed loop instead of a constricting noose. You can also avoid knots wich consume vertical distance. If your anchor point is for example a horizontal beam like a pull up bar you only have tie the rope very tight around your neck and this bar. The rope is like a tourniquet and the bar is like the tourniquet-stick, but you don't twist this stick, you hang from it. This way you also have a fixed loop instead of a noose. So 1,5 foot above you is more than sufficient.

Thank you for this. My rope is short and I've 'practiced' with the two knots very close together - tieing the noose around my neck first to reduce length of having to fit my head in the noose & then tie to anchor point. I saw you mentioned tourniquet on another thread but I struggled to understanding its meaning. Are you able to explain this a bit more please? My point is vertical but narrow, I was going to use a snuggle hitch as they don't take up much room in depth, and then the noose is already around my neck. But am interested in this tourniquet you speak of, if you are able to give more information please?

Thank you for your help!

 

[AreWeWinning]

I have read many forensic studies and found two things:
1. In many cases they copy from one another.
2. There is a lot of bullshit written down.

Bullshit don't becomes true if it is multiplied, so I give a damn on definitions that are illogical or not applicable in my opinion.

Studies do copy from one another, but the sources are almost always cited, and it's usually clear which ideas are copied and which are original work.

We also need to differentiate between ideas, theories, and basic terminology. If we don't even agree on the basic terminology, that makes any meaningful discussion impossible. For example, we could say mathematics and physics textbooks copy from each other, because they all call 90° a right angle. Now, you might have your own opinion and say that 89.5° or 91.2° are also right angles, but if everyone did the same, it's easy to see why that would be problematic or even dangerous.

Not all terms are perfectly clear in meaning – for example, what counts as a typical hanging or an atypical hanging – but the terms full suspension and partial suspension are not like that. They are clear, and everyone agrees on what they mean. There's nothing illogical about it.

Forensic experts and suicides have completly different view points. The first assess what they find after a suicide and the latter plan their suicide. If I intend to hang full and end with my tiptoes on the ground it is still full hanging. I choose full hanging if I don't want to be able to stop the process, if I want a clear point of no return. Whether my tiptoes touch the ground or not is totally irrelevant for me.

The problem with this approach is: where do you draw the line? The point is not what your intention is, but how to describe things in a clear, unambiguous way. If we start describing partial suspension as full suspension, it will lead to misunderstandings and confusion. This approach leads to situations where people describe an attempt as 'full suspension', but it later turns out that what happened was in fact partial suspension. Fortunately, this doesn't happen frequently.

Many corps are found after some days and during this time the neck muscles have elongated. So the feet are completly off the ground when the person died but thouch the ground when the body is found. Stastistics record it as partial hanging.

Yes, they record it as partial hanging, because that's what it is. The definitions are clear. By the way, this isn't the issue we're talking about here. You're describing a situation where the feet touch the ground to begin with, which is definitely not full suspension, regardless of what happens after.

Definitions

Incomplete hanging: The body is suspended but has some form of contact to the ground or the object from which the hanging took place, usually with the feet, more rarely with other parts of the body (Figure 21.7). As a result, only part of the body weight is pressing on the neck region. Therefore, this hanging position is also referred to as 'partial suspension'. Where the feet are still just touching the floor, it is common to find a climbing aid next to the body, such as a stool, used.

Complete hanging: There is no contact between the feet and the floor, i.e. full suspension is achieved (Figure 21.8). In suicide hanging, a climbing aid will always be found in the immediate vicinity of the deceased, otherwise there can be no explanation for the free suspension.

(Source: Asphyxiation, Suffocation, and Neck Pressure Deaths, edited by Burkhard Madea.)

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Thank you for this. My rope is short and I've 'practiced' with the two knots very close together - tieing the noose around my neck first to reduce length of having to fit my head in the noose & then tie to anchor point. I saw you mentioned tourniquet on another thread but I struggled to understanding its meaning. Are you able to explain this a bit more please? My point is vertical but narrow, I was going to use a snuggle hitch as they don't take up much room in depth, and then the noose is already around my neck. But am interested in this tourniquet you speak of, if you are able to give more information please?

Thank you for your help!

I mentioned a tourniquet to make clear what I mean but if you don´t know a tourniquet this is not helpful. You will find a lot of information about the tourniquet methode on this site when you use the search bar. But I would not use this method as long as I have the possibility to hang mself. This method is the last way out if you are not able to leave your bed anymore.

What I mean: Step on your stool move as close as posssible to your anchor point. Ideally your anchor point is touching the back of your neck. Than put your rope around your neck AND the anchor point and connect both ends of the rope for example with a two half hitch knot. The rope should be thight around your neck. If you are really sure you only have to step off the stool and that´s it.

Studies do copy from one another, but the sources are almost always cited, and it's usually clear which ideas are copied and which are original work.

We also need to differentiate between ideas, theories, and basic terminology. If we don't even agree on the basic terminology, that makes any meaningful discussion impossible. For example, we could say mathematics and physics textbooks copy from each other, because they all call 90° a right angle. Now, you might have your own opinion and say that 89.5° or 91.2° are also right angles, but if everyone did the same, it's easy to see why that would be problematic or even dangerous.

Not all terms are perfectly clear in meaning – for example, what counts as a typical hanging or an atypical hanging – but the terms full suspension and partial suspension are not like that. They are clear, and everyone agrees on what they mean. There's nothing illogical about it.

Definitions

Incomplete hanging: "The body is suspended but has some form of contact to the ground or the object from which the hanging took place, usually with the feet, more rarely with other parts of the body (Figure 21.7). As a result, only part of the body weight is pressing on the neck region. Therefore, this hanging position is also referred to as 'partial suspension'. Where the feet are still just touching the floor, it is common to find a climbing aid next to the body, such as a stool, used."

Complete hanging: "There is no contact between the feet and the floor, i.e. full suspension is achieved (Figure 21.8). In suicide hanging, a climbing aid will always be found in the immediate vicinity of the deceased, otherwise there can be no explanation for the free suspension."

(Source: Asphyxiation, Suffocation, and Neck Pressure Deaths, edited by Burkhard Madea.)

The problem with this approach is: where do you draw the line? The point is not what your intention is, but how to describe things in a clear, unambiguous way. If we start describing partial suspension as full suspension, it will lead to misunderstandings and confusion. This approach leads to situations where people describe an attempt as 'full suspension', but it later turns out that what happened was in fact partial suspension. Fortunately, this doesn't happen frequently.



Yes, they record it as partial hanging, because that's what it is. The definitions are clear. By the way, this isn't the issue we're talking about here. You're describing a situation where the feet touch the ground to begin with, which is definitely not full suspension, regardless of what happens after.

Incomplete hanging:
Where the feet are still just touching the floor, it is common to find a climbing aid next to the body, such as a stool, used."

Complete hanging:
In suicide hanging, a climbing aid will always be found in the immediate vicinity of the deceased, otherwise there can be no explanation for the free suspension."

This definitions unveils, that there is no sharp line but a grey zoone. Sorry, but you don´t convince me.

 

[ifihadnever]

I mentioned a tourniquet to make clear what I mean but if you don´t know a tourniquet this is not helpful. You will find a lot of information about the tourniquet methode on this site when you use the search bar. But I would not use this method as long as I have the possibility to hang mself. This method is the last way out if you are not able to leave your bed anymore.

What I mean: Step on your stool move as close as posssible to your anchor point. Ideally your anchor point is touching the back of your neck. Than put your rope around your neck AND the anchor point and connect both ends of the rope for example with a two half hitch knot. The rope should be thight around your neck. If you are really sure you only have to step off the stool and that´s it.

Apologies, so i stand on the stool, can get back of neck to anchor point. How do I put the rope around my neck and anchor point at the same time? Please excuse me from being completely stupid (I actually have cognition impairment / brain injury so genuinely do need some guidance to understand things a little). I'm not understanding the 'connect both ends with a 2 half hitch knot' bit. So, it wouldn't be a noose knot around my neck but a fixed knot? I think I've misunderstood what you are trying to say.

My plan was to do a noose knot with stopper already around my neck fairly tight already, get a close as possible to anchor point and tie a snuggle knot (can be a different knot). Turn, ensure noose is tight and on back on nect and come off the stool. Obviously, the noose will tighten more as i drop & ligature stretches, neck decreases so I do lose height. But hoping not all height if I can get as close to the anchor point as possible - not so easy to tie a knot to anchor point that close with noose around neck but have been practicing and can do it. What I don't know for sure is the height I will lose when off the stool (and noone can really know). Do you think my idea is no good?

Apologies, I do appreciate you help....just need a little guidance. Thank you

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I don't know of any "guides" except here on SaSu in Hanging Megathread.

Anyway, my cousin ctb with standing partial. Tied one end of some kind of "cord", probably rope, around the clothing rod in a closet. He fashioned a noose, or slip knot, on the other end of the rope around his neck. He then put both of his feet against the back wall of closet at bottom where wall meets floor, and then "simply" leaned forward. His mom found him like that.

The one thing about partial is that you have to be like 1000% resolved to see it through because, since your feet are on the floor, you have the capability to back out of the attempt. Nothing wrong with that. Just saying it's not as "easy" as kicking a chair away and entering the "point of no return", iykwim.