Is it selfish to try and make friends while suicidal?

[KinderEgg]

I'm not actually sure if this belongs here or in recovery as I was trying to recover but with a kind of deadline so to speak.
So for some context, I've experienced suicidal ideation for awhile and it got really bad last year. At the start of this year I decided I would engage with the mental health resources available to me to the fullest and make a full genuine effort to improve my life, and if at the end of the year things are the same as they were at the start despite having put all that effort in ill just end it. I'm not looking to spend years trying to fix everything and if it doesn't shift even a little after a year of trying then that's probably not a great sign right? Well apart of what makes me miserable is social anxiety, I really struggle to make friends or meaningful connections so combatting social anxiety was a top priority, I decided to start online rather then irl due to the increased safety, I know it isn't fully the same but I do believe it is at least somewhat transferable and I was aware I'd still have to practice irl too. Anyway I ended up making friends, I'd describe them as good friends. I don't know if I constitute this as significant change, I definitely did make an improvement by reducing the anxiety I feel and being able to make connection but I still feel utterly miserable. Maybe my expectations are too high for how much any improvement will actually make.

Either way it's sort of occurred to me, would it be super unethical to try to make friends while knowingly having a sort of "deadline" for life if certain variables aren't met? In other words there's a pretty high chance that I might take my own life, and by trying to make friends I'm potentially exposing people who otherwise wouldn't be to something that might be very traumatic. I don't really know what to think. Any thoughts?
Sorry if this was a little long winded at all.

 

[getoutgirl]

Hi. Long winded answer:
I relate a lot. I also struggle with social anxiety and the general social factor and inadequacy is one of the main reasons why I am suicidal. Early this year I also decided to give it yet another try, and the results have been mixed. But I also and for the first time have made online friends! Which has made it easier to at least conceive I can sort of manage this whole social thing better. Still far from secure in it, less so irl, but I call it improvement.
So yeah I think you did earn significant change, worked for it and should be proud of that improvement.
The expectations were definetly high, both for me too lol. I'm still a mess, but I think it's okay to still be one in only less than a year AND have improved in some areas. Daily coming to terms with accepting that. So yeah you did good and I'm sure you'll keep making it, ups and lows included :)

On the ethical thing, yeah I had that too. I've purposefully allienated and isolated from all my irl friends for over a year now and repeatedly in the past. In great part cos I was planning my suicide or highly suspecting it would be a matter of time before I did it, and so i didn't want to hurt them like that. I'd rather disappear so they hate me or most likely forget about me, better than them hurting.
So I get the dilemma, I've thought about it a lot.

I can't fully condone my own actions either or recommend any. Maybe I did them also in part cos I just couldn't handle it at that point. I think finding friendships and connection is also a crucial part of recovery, or just feeling better and gaining some distance from depression and suicidality, that might lead to a future in which you don't have to lean towards it. So, if a bit paradoxical, I think it's okay to make friends while suicidal, specially with your intention that you stated and started this year. It's a risk but it's also part of tratment an general life betterment. The fact you care about them in this way also shows you are a kind person, and socially, that's pretty good too, that's empathy and care. You are trying, and if it gets bad, you can rely on them so it's easier too. The dilemma is still there in the fuzzy potential future, and I don't want to hurt anyone either, but if you focus on the present rn you are doing pretty good, and I don't think it's unethical, just messy kind human behavior :)

I just wanated to rant a lot I guess. Hugs your way <3

 

[Dejected 55]

If you want brutal honesty... making friends at all is selfish. Sure, you might care and be kind to your friends and it is mutually beneficial... but inherently making friends is selfish. We do it for connection that we need... we do it for protection from others... the more friends you have, presumably the less enemies you have AND the more support you have if your enemies attack.

Is it selfish to make friends when being suicidal? As much as it ever is to make friends. I think if you want to be kind, though, you can tell the new friends that you make about your suicidal feelings. They will either run away, in which case they weren't going to be good friends anyway, or they will stay.

 

[melonpan]

In my opinion, it's perfectly fine but then again, I also just don't think any of my friends would care enough about me to mourn over my death other than a simple "aww.. that sucks."

 

[Tord]

What Dejected has already said:

If you want brutal honesty... making friends at all is selfish. Sure, you might care and be kind to your friends and it is mutually beneficial... but inherently making friends is selfish. We do it for connection that we need... we do it for protection from others... the more friends you have, presumably the less enemies you have AND the more support you have if your enemies attack.

Is it selfish to make friends when being suicidal? As much as it ever is to make friends. I think if you want to be kind, though, you can tell the new friends that you make about your suicidal feelings. They will either run away, in which case they weren't going to be good friends anyway, or they will stay.

Except I want to add my personal note to this too so I don't add nothing to this thread.

I think friendships and relationships while dying or planning to die are more of ''case by case decisions''. I also know that everyone dies someday though and that's a risk you run with any person you speak to on this planet. Death discriminates at no time of the day or night so you can't owe anyone living.

With that in mind let's combine that with your actual question - is it selfish to try and make friends while suicidal? Now I know suicide is a choice (mostly), hence the name, but I don't think it makes the circumstances I've mentioned prior too different.


I think I view it similarly to elderly people still hanging around their family members while knowing they will die or are actively dying soon. If I had anyone that close to me before I ctb I would definitely talk to them about this topic sometime and see how the relationship or friendship continues from there.

As children's book -y as it'll sound, real friends will stay until the end.
But I wouldn't blame them if knowing their friend is going to die is something they do not want to deal with. Who does, anyway? It's not a complicated topic for people that rarely think about death for no reason after all.

 

[Care]

It's an interesting question. In my case, I don't struggle too much to make friends with people I have just met, and have a good base of people around me. But even knowing I'm likely to commit suicide in the future, I don't really feel that making those friends is much more 'selfish' than it would be normally.

Being connected feels good intrinsically, so from that sense making friends in general is selfish. But for me to make new connections knowing that they'll eventually be hurt by my passing... isn't that just life? There's a chance I'd die randomly anyways, and they'd be hurt the same regardless.

Now that may change if the known cause was suicide, and in that case they'd be left mulling over how maybe they could have prevented it, how they may have never noticed the signs, etc. But my hope is that if they did love me as a friend they would eventually resolve to be grateful that they could at least share time with me before I passed. Maybe I'm a little too optimistic there.

To put my mind at ease over this, I plan to frame my death as an accident, at least to people outside of immediate family. If all goes to plan then most friends will have an easier time processing the death and my mind (maybe soul?) can be closer to peace before I go.

 

[Worndown]

No. Being "suicidal" and attempting are different steps in the process.
You are at step #1.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I tend to think if a genuine recovery attempt is being made then, trying to make friends would be a part of that. I'm sure that therapists would suggest it. So- on those terms, it doesn't seem selfish.

Plus- to overcome social anxiety on the path of recovery, I'm sure you have to start confronting it. So, your actions made sense- to me. It's not exactly our fault if we truly intend to recover and make efforts to do so but then, relapse.

I suppose my personal feeling for me is that it wouldn't feel fair for me to try to make new friends. Seeing as I feel sure I want to CTB as soon as I can. I'm waiting for my Dad to go first. Also, for former friends that are still reasonably close- I felt it important to make them aware that I may well CTB. Then, it's their decision on whether they want to keep in contact.

I also feel it wouldn't be fair on me either. The last thing I want is tethers to this world. To have more people to worry about hurting. I don't want to trap myself like that.

If I'm being brutally honest, the bigger concern for me is when people look for romantic partners. Often it seems, just because they want to know what it would feel like. I suppose maybe they have the hope it will 'save' them but, I can't help but think how traumatic it could end up for that other person. If they end up truly caring for them- loving them and then find out they may well lose them or, actually lose them. That does seem cruel to me personally.

 

[KinderEgg]

Hi. Long winded answer:
I relate a lot. I also struggle with social anxiety and the general social factor and inadequacy is one of the main reasons why I am suicidal. Early this year I also decided to give it yet another try, and the results have been mixed. But I also and for the first time have made online friends! Which has made it easier to at least conceive I can sort of manage this whole social thing better. Still far from secure in it, less so irl, but I call it improvement.
So yeah I think you did earn significant change, worked for it and should be proud of that improvement.
The expectations were definetly high, both for me too lol. I'm still a mess, but I think it's okay to still be one in only less than a year AND have improved in some areas. Daily coming to terms with accepting that. So yeah you did good and I'm sure you'll keep making it, ups and lows included :)

On the ethical thing, yeah I had that too. I've purposefully allienated and isolated from all my irl friends for over a year now and repeatedly in the past. In great part cos I was planning my suicide or highly suspecting it would be a matter of time before I did it, and so i didn't want to hurt them like that. I'd rather disappear so they hate me or most likely forget about me, better than them hurting.
So I get the dilemma, I've thought about it a lot.

I can't fully condone my own actions either or recommend any. Maybe I did them also in part cos I just couldn't handle it at that point. I think finding friendships and connection is also a crucial part of recovery, or just feeling better and gaining some distance from depression and suicidality, that might lead to a future in which you don't have to lean towards it. So, if a bit paradoxical, I think it's okay to make friends while suicidal, specially with your intention that you stated and started this year. It's a risk but it's also part of tratment an general life betterment. The fact you care about them in this way also shows you are a kind person, and socially, that's pretty good too, that's empathy and care. You are trying, and if it gets bad, you can rely on them so it's easier too. The dilemma is still there in the fuzzy potential future, and I don't want to hurt anyone either, but if you focus on the present rn you are doing pretty good, and I don't think it's unethical, just messy kind human behavior :)

I just wanated to rant a lot I guess. Hugs your way <3

Thank you so much for your reply! Human behaviour is messy, you're probably right in focusing on the present and what that looks like rather then the ethics of a potential future. I think it's probably still okay to be a mess for awhile too. Thank you so much for sharing your similar experience and relating it <3 Like me it sounds like you're making good progress on making friends online too.
Perhaps I do need to realign my expectations a bit, I am glad I have said friends for sure.

If you want brutal honesty... making friends at all is selfish. Sure, you might care and be kind to your friends and it is mutually beneficial... but inherently making friends is selfish. We do it for connection that we need... we do it for protection from others... the more friends you have, presumably the less enemies you have AND the more support you have if your enemies attack.

Is it selfish to make friends when being suicidal? As much as it ever is to make friends. I think if you want to be kind, though, you can tell the new friends that you make about your suicidal feelings. They will either run away, in which case they weren't going to be good friends anyway, or they will stay.

That's a fair point I suppose, making friends does provide benefit to oneself so in a sense it is by it's nature a selfish act, maybe my having a negative tilt on the phrase selfish is flawed because even if making friends were selfish I don't think it's unethical so maybe my issue here is simply perspective. It's slightly off topic but your response reminds me of a discussion I remember hearing in college where it was argued that selfless acts like volunteering for charities and such could be perceived as selfish by those who do it because it feels good to help others, but it still doesn't necessarily detract from the "goodness"(?) of the act. Or I think that was the conclusion anyway.

What Dejected has already said:



Except I want to add my personal note to this too so I don't add nothing to this thread.

I think friendships and relationships while dying or planning to die are more of ''case by case decisions''. I also know that everyone dies someday though and that's a risk you run with any person you speak to on this planet. Death discriminates at no time of the day or night so you can't owe anyone living.

With that in mind let's combine that with your actual question - is it selfish to try and make friends while suicidal? Now I know suicide is a choice (mostly), hence the name, but I don't think it makes the circumstances I've mentioned prior too different.


I think I view it similarly to elderly people still hanging around their family members while knowing they will die or are actively dying soon. If I had anyone that close to me before I ctb I would definitely talk to them about this topic sometime and see how the relationship or friendship continues from there.

As children's book -y as it'll sound, real friends will stay until the end.
But I wouldn't blame them if knowing their friend is going to die is something they do not want to deal with. Who does, anyway? It's not a complicated topic for people that rarely think about death for no reason after all.

You're right it is an intrinsic risk, I mean anyone you befriend could drop dead of an aneurysm at any point in time or could get hit by a vehicle, it's definitely a risk that just comes with seeking connection, thanks for your perspective.

 

[LastLoveSong]

probably