Improper hanging

[TheEmptyVoid]

it's not that obvious. carotid artery isn't always closed even during full suspension hangings. Often yes, but not always - seen many vids where the hangman was fully aware of everything.

Can you show me the videos where the hangman was aware?

 

[TheEmptyVoid]

yeah ur lying, if you don't show the videos, then ur lying.
I've looked at every person who was hanged themselves (mostly Indian people) in watchpeopledie.tv website and they all seemed to lose consciousness in like 5 to 10 seconds and not even a single person had been conscious for longer than 15 seconds they just start contracting their muscles in there chest because of unconscious reflexes of inhaling through a blocked airway while unconscious.

 

[Docdj]

Would you mind sharing the source for this research?

Edit: I've checked quite a few myself, and I'm not aware that such research exists. All the ones I've checked say consciousness is lost somewhere between 5 to 18 seconds.

I'm hope you're right. Reading these posts even if incorrect is scary

 

[Romanticize]

"there are no videos and no evidence of slow hanging" - below 3 links are just from first page of Google search, widely available. I didn't even search specifically for slow hanging, just hanging.
You are hugely mistaken if you think all hangings are quick blackout. You guys only take theory about carotid compression, but practice differs from theory. Even from statistical point of view you are mistaken. In theory people falling from 30m onto concrete should die ALWAYS, but it doesn't happen. There are so many variables you cannot account for (and it's true for most methods).

I have seen hundreds of hanging videos (I am subscribed to many similar websites and check them daily). Many of them were quick, but you are oversimplifying things saying 5kgf is enough to block carotid - it's true in theory but often wrong in real-world practice.

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/196350/female-twitch-streamer-livestreams-her-hanging?sort=random

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/270105/worms-eye-perspective-of-a-hanging?sort=old

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/16802/hanging-suicide

Yes, with 5kgf of force (in theory) if someone doesn't have fat tissue on their neck, a person loses consciousness quickly, when both carotids are blocked. You can see it in MMA when done properly - it needs to be applied very specifically to the sides of the neck.
However many suicide hangings are not biomechanically ideal, because of:
-poor force distribution: rope position is asymmetric, pressing often one side or under the jaw, not ideally both carotids
- head or angle posture (eg. leaning foward or sideways) makes symmetrical artery compression inconsistent
- vascular redundancy - sometimes only jugular veins are compressed, not the arteries, leading to venous congestion, swelling and slow suffocation, not a quick blackout
- not enough force (5kgf per carotid) may not be achieved with low-drop bodyweight, especially true in partial suspension

Also you said body examination does not tell anything, which is not true: quick blackout victims doesn't have claw marks, convulsions, vomiting, even regaining consciousness, on top of that autopsies show massive petechiae, tongue protrusion, cyanosis - all of these are signs of prolonged aspyxia, not carotid-induced blackout.
Another proof is that during some autopsies, ligature marks are observed not over carotid zones, but high under jaw or back of neck.

You have to differentiate blood choke, which is precise, applied by trained person and hanging, which is imprecise, passive, relies on gravity and luck. Hanging isn't a blood choke. The forces are different and the body isn't cooperating - it's panicking, seizing, writhing. Many real-world suicides fail to replicate the ideal conditions.

So, is carotid compression possible without a long drop? - Yes, of course.
Is blackout within 15secs guaranteed? - Absolutely not.

Anyway, I won't look here anymore, so seems like we both made our points and neither of us is going to change their mind. Let's spare ourselves some time and there is no need to drag this any further.
Take care, and good luck out there

 

[AreWeWinning]

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide...-streamer-livestreams-her-hanging?sort=random
https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/270105/worms-eye-perspective-of-a-hanging?sort=old
https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/16802/hanging-suicide

We can't see what she's doing exactly in terms of rope position, but by looking at the body movements, it very much looks like a typical suspension hanging. Consciousness is lost within about 10 seconds, then convulsions and the 'rigidity stages' start and last for about 2 minutes, after which the body goes limp.

On the second video, it's not visible what ligature she is using and how it is positioned. She might have positioned the knot at the front or used a thick scarf or bedsheet, both of which are very obvious mistakes that can easily be avoided.

The 3rd video doesn't load for me, unfortunately, but I might try later.

I'm not saying hanging can't be done incorrectly. It can, and it can lead to undesirable outcomes! However, it's relatively easy to do it correctly. There are only a few things the attempter needs to pay attention to:

• Use a self-tightening noose
• Position the knot at the back of the neck
• Use an anchor point and rope that won't fail
• Do full suspension if possible, or if it's partial, do it in a standing position

That's all there is to it.

quick blackout victims doesn't have claw marks, convulsions

Convulsions, twitching, and various involuntary muscle movements absolutely do occur after blackout.

"Considering time 0 to represent the onset of the final hanging, rapid loss of consciousness was observed (at 8-18 sec), closely followed by convulsions (at 10-19 sec). A complex pattern of decerebrate rigidity and decorticate rigidity then followed. Between 1 min 38 sec and 2 min 15 sec, muscle tone seemed to be lost, the body becoming progressively flaccid. From then on, isolated body movements were observed from time to time, the last one occurring between 1 min 2 sec and 7 min 31 sec."
(Agonal sequences in eight filmed hangings: analysis of respiratory and movement responses to asphyxia by hanging - PubMed)

"rapid loss of consciousness in 10 ± 3 seconds, mild generalized convulsions in 14 ± 3 seconds, decerebrate rigidity in 19 ± 5 seconds, beginning of deep rhythmic abdominal respiratory movements in 19 ± 5 seconds, decorticate rigidity in 38 ± 15 seconds, loss of muscle tone in 1 minute 17 seconds ± 25 seconds, end of deep abdominal respiratory movements in 1 minute 51 seconds ± 30 seconds, and last muscle movement in 4 minutes 12 seconds ± 2 minutes 29 seconds."
(Agonal sequences in 14 filmed hangings with comments on the role of the type of suspension, ischemic habituation, and ethanol intoxication on the timing of agonal responses - PubMed)

Another proof is that during some autopsies, ligature marks are observed not over carotid zones, but high under jaw or back of neck.

In 98-99% of hanging cases the ligature mark is at the top of the neck, so this proves nothing. See attached image below.
(Hanging Fatalities in Central Bangkok, Thailand: A 13-Year Retrospective Study - PMC)

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

The 3rd video doesn't load for me, unfortunately, but I might try later.

The 3ed video is often used as an evidence that a hanged person regains consciousness or at least semi-consciousness. It looks as if she tries to grap the rope and pulls herself up. She does not succeed, so she remains most likely unconscious.

 

[AreWeWinning]

The 3ed video is often used as an evidence that a hanged person regains consciousness or at least semi-consciousness. It looks as if she tries to grap the rope and pulls herself up. She does not succeed, so she remains most likely unconscious.

Thanks. Yes, she tried to reach for the rope about half a minute in (edit: half a minute after she stepped off), then she passed out, and it was over for her. As far as I'm concerned, she died a peaceful and quick death, even though she made multiple mistakes with her setup.

Mistakes she made: She used a ligature that was too thick. She didn't pre-tighten the noose and position the knot at the back, and she let her hair get caught in the noose. And despite all these mistakes – which are easily avoidable – she was still out in about a minute.

Did she suffer? People watch this and think 'OMG, she suffered, she suffered, OMG, OMG' – no, she didn't. People see limbs and muscles moving, and be like 'oh, how horrible'. Do you know how she actually felt? What are you basing your opinion on?

Other methods... No one talks about self-poisoning, when attempters sit and lie there in agony, drooling and puking their guts out, which may feel ten times worse. No, instead, they worry about hanging, because that's how our lizard brain works. We see a living creature in a trapped situation, moving, and it elicits a strong psychological reaction. It's silly. Or no one talks about jumping. Why? Again, because seeing a person lying on the floor doesn't elicit a strong reaction. While in reality, the person might be lying there in agony for minutes before they die after a jumping attempt.

Reasons for criticizing hanging... People with no serious suicidal intent criticize hanging for ideological reasons – because they know it's an easy, quick, and extremely effective method. They know it's dangerous, so there's actually a reason for attacking it.

 

[JesiBel]

"there are no videos and no evidence of slow hanging" - below 3 links are just from first page of Google search, widely available. I didn't even search specifically for slow hanging, just hanging.
You are hugely mistaken if you think all hangings are quick blackout. You guys only take theory about carotid compression, but practice differs from theory. Even from statistical point of view you are mistaken. In theory people falling from 30m onto concrete should die ALWAYS, but it doesn't happen. There are so many variables you cannot account for (and it's true for most methods).

I have seen hundreds of hanging videos (I am subscribed to many similar websites and check them daily). Many of them were quick, but you are oversimplifying things saying 5kgf is enough to block carotid - it's true in theory but often wrong in real-world practice.

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/196350/female-twitch-streamer-livestreams-her-hanging?sort=random

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/270105/worms-eye-perspective-of-a-hanging?sort=old

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/16802/hanging-suicide

Yes, with 5kgf of force (in theory) if someone doesn't have fat tissue on their neck, a person loses consciousness quickly, when both carotids are blocked. You can see it in MMA when done properly - it needs to be applied very specifically to the sides of the neck.
However many suicide hangings are not biomechanically ideal, because of:
-poor force distribution: rope position is asymmetric, pressing often one side or under the jaw, not ideally both carotids
- head or angle posture (eg. leaning foward or sideways) makes symmetrical artery compression inconsistent
- vascular redundancy - sometimes only jugular veins are compressed, not the arteries, leading to venous congestion, swelling and slow suffocation, not a quick blackout
- not enough force (5kgf per carotid) may not be achieved with low-drop bodyweight, especially true in partial suspension

Also you said body examination does not tell anything, which is not true: quick blackout victims doesn't have claw marks, convulsions, vomiting, even regaining consciousness, on top of that autopsies show massive petechiae, tongue protrusion, cyanosis - all of these are signs of prolonged aspyxia, not carotid-induced blackout.
Another proof is that during some autopsies, ligature marks are observed not over carotid zones, but high under jaw or back of neck.

You have to differentiate blood choke, which is precise, applied by trained person and hanging, which is imprecise, passive, relies on gravity and luck. Hanging isn't a blood choke. The forces are different and the body isn't cooperating - it's panicking, seizing, writhing. Many real-world suicides fail to replicate the ideal conditions.

So, is carotid compression possible without a long drop? - Yes, of course.
Is blackout within 15secs guaranteed? - Absolutely not.

Anyway, I won't look here anymore, so seems like we both made our points and neither of us is going to change their mind. Let's spare ourselves some time and there is no need to drag this any further.
Take care, and good luck out there

Unfortunately, the first video you attached proves our point, not yours. I remember seeing that video in one of Evelyn Lane's posts. Although you can't see the type of knot she used or how she positioned the ligature, you can see how quickly the convulsion and spasm phase began. Meaning that she compressed the carotids well, her brain is not receiving oxygenated blood flow. The third video is similar to this one.

The bottom-up perspective in the second video doesn't show much, and it's not there from the start either. You can clearly see the scarf hanging over the front of the body. So the knot was positioned incorrectly (the knot should be behind the neck, not in front), and that's the person's fault, not the method's.

Responding only to what was left undiscussed...

A knot that tightens when weight is applied and placed behind the neck is enough to compress the carotid arteries (5kg force). You don't need much weight to lose consciousness. Like the girl in the first video, you can see that she is small and thin.

Obviously, there are limitations; if you're too overweight/obese, this method isn't for you. Finding a sturdy anchor point will be difficult, and they have almost no neck (no offense). It's all about common sense.

(Offtopic: It reminded me of the case of Mitchell Rupe, he was found too obese to being executed by hanging)

Partial Hanging isn't worth talking about or even considering. There are enough 'failed attempts' on the forum to waste time on it.

The signs of hanging (mentioned in my previous post with the information) will still be present on the corpse. There's no way you'll know whether the person lost consciousness quickly or not. The rope compresses and puts pressure on your entire neck equally—arteries, veins, and trachea.

Asphyxia is the obstruction of normal pulmonary ventilation. Obviously there are going to be signs of asphyxiation, you are also compressing the trachea.

And right under the jaw is the best place to put the rope.. The carotids are more accessible there, and the pulse is easier to feel. It's even the softest part of the neck, making it easier for the rope to penetrate.

'How to locate the carotid arteries?'

How to locate the carotid arteries ?

It seems to be said that I should be able to feel a pulse where they are but I can't feel anything . Any tips ?

sanctioned-suicide.net

Oh my God, I can't believe it. "Hanging relies on gravity and luck". Luck? Gravity is more than clear; we can't escape it. Doing things right isn't a matter of luck, and common sense isn't a matter of luck either.

If you want to do it right and overcome fear, you can start by getting informed. There are many posts on the subject. Even in the posts above they explained to you how to avoid making mistakes.

Thread 'Evelyn's complete guide on how to hang yourself with both partial and full suspension hanging'

Evelyn's complete guide on how to hang yourself with both partial and full suspension hanging

Are you new to hanging? Or maybe just trying to find out if hanging is the right method for you? This reading guide has you covered! This is your one stop shop to both partial suspension hanging and full suspension hanging. This is a reading guide to the guides I published on this forum so far...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Thread 'Knots megathread - a guide'

Knots megathread - a guide

hii! I haven't seen this on the website so I decided to make a compilation of all useful knots I found off of this website (animatedknots.com). I only chose knots that would be useful for hanging, I didn't consider other uses (doesn't mean it can't be used for other things). I used a shoelace...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I think that's all.

To finish the post, I leave a site with photos of several hanging cases:

Search for hanging, Herman The Shocker

A woman was discovered hanging in what appeared to be a suicide, and due to the passage of several days before her body was found, significant decomposition had already set in.

www.hermantheshocker.com

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Thanks. Yes, she tried to reach for the rope about half a minute in, then she passed out, and it was over for her. As far as I'm concerned, she died a peaceful and quick death, even though she made multiple mistakes with her setup.

Mistakes she made: She used a ligature that was too thick. She didn't pre-tighten the noose and position the knot at the back, and she let her hair get caught in the noose. And despite all these mistakes – which are easily avoidable – she was still out in about a minute.

Did she suffer? People watch this and think 'OMG, she suffered, she suffered, OMG, OMG' – no, she didn't. People see limbs and muscles moving, and be like 'oh, how horrible'. Do you know how she actually felt? What are you basing your opinion on?

Other methods... No one talks about self-poisoning, when attempters sit and lie there in agony, drooling and puking their guts out, which may feel ten times worse. No, instead, they worry about hanging, because that's how our lizard brain works. We see a living creature in a trapped situation, moving, and it elicits a strong psychological reaction. It's silly. Or no one talks about jumping. Why? Again, because seeing a person lying on the floor doesn't elicit a strong reaction. While in reality, the person might be lying there in agony for minutes before they die after a jumping attempt.

Reasons for criticizing hanging... People with no serious suicidal intent criticize hanging for ideological reasons – because they know it's an easy, quick, and extremely effective method. They know it's dangerous, so there's actually a reason for attacking it.

I mean her movements at 3:50.

 

[SoulWhisperer]

Daily dose of anxiety taken. /hj
Dang though...