Discussion I feel guilty that I want to ctb while there are people with lives much worse than mine who want to live.

[joaosembraco12]

Today this thought came to me: it's strange that I have a relatively good life, food at home, internet, computer, leisure, comfort and I want to kill myself, while there are poor people who basically live to work and want to live, no matter how hard life is. What explains this phenomenon?

 

[hedezev4]

Maybe it's because they have something to strive for, and they think that this is what will bring them happiness? But you already have everything you wanted and you realize that you don't really want much more, and yet you are still not happy.

 

[Polyxo]

I relate to you very deeply. I was born to a loving family and grew up in comfort.

It's generally accepted by society that suicidal ideation is an illness, and it's absolutely normal to feel guilty about the circumstances.

You can look up Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It's my personal understanding that once the physiological and safety needs are met for the most part, that's when people are most able to do something about symptoms of mental illness, as one doesn't need to focus so much on basic needs. Idk for sure though.

 

[joaosembraco12]

I relate to you very deeply. I was born to a loving family and grew up in comfort.

It's generally accepted by society that suicidal ideation is an illness, and it's absolutely normal to feel guilty about the circumstances.

You can look up Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It's my personal understanding that once the physiological and safety needs are met for the most part, that's when people are most able to do something about symptoms of mental illness, as one doesn't need to focus so much on basic needs. Idk for sure though.

Yes, I think that's right, I've already written a little about it, I'm not exactly suicidal, if I could live as a NEET and be supported by my parents all my life, I could live well, what scares me is the need to work and knowing that I would be unhappy in a normal life. However, although I understand myself, I don't understand how a person with a life that is worse than mine, who just survives and that is all, can get on with their life.

Maybe it's because they have something to strive for, and they think that this is what will bring them happiness? But you already have everything you wanted and you realize that you don't really want much more, and yet you are still not happy.

But why do they have hope? I don't understand, I too could have hope and try my best to be "someone better" and to be "happy". But I don't, I've already given up.

 

[hedezev4]

But why do they have hope? I don't understand, I too could have hope and try my best to be "someone better" and to be "happy". But I don't, I've already given up.

I'm not trying to claim anything. I'm just speaking from my own experience.

It seems to me that they haven't lived well enough and they think that if they live a good life that will bring them happiness. So they strive for it. If a person has everything they wanted and lives the way they want it starts to feel empty and they realize there's nothing left to strive for. They have reached the state that others consider happiness but they are not happy. They might have everything, money, lots of free time, but after a while it becomes their normal.

It could also be that your life doesn't have any "roller coasters." Every day feels the same and you're getting tired of it. Other people might often go through something bad and then something good and that contrast gives them the strength to keep going.


I'll give you an example from competitive games. I don't know if you play games or not, so I'll try to explain it simply.
From my own experience.

There are games where people try to win. Two teams, and almost everyone playing tries to win each game, each match. If you win every match, then after 10 or 20 games you will get bored. And on the other hand, if you lose every time, then after 5 games you will get tired of it. The ideal is a 55-60% win rate. That way the game is the most fun to play.

What I mean is that in order to appreciate something good, like a win, you need to compare it to something bad, like a loss.

I think life works the same way. If you always do something good, something you enjoy, then without bad experiences you lose the contrast. It becomes normal and you get bored of it. You may start to feel like quitting the game or quitting life.

 

[dontwakemeup]

It's funny how everyone believes if we only had this or that then our lives would be fulfilled. I honestly think everyone is missing something and whatever it is has the same equivalence to whatever someone else wished they had.

I just want my life over. I'm no longer waiting or wishing for anything more. I've lived long enough and have no desire to wake up tomorrow. I will never understand why anyone would want to live forever?? I also find myself feeling so selfish as I have a little more than others but it certainly isn't a factor to make me want to stay. My loved one is currently in the hospital fighting for their life, I so wish it was me! I would do anything to change places, but it's not my decision.

Don't feel bad; what you're feeling is valid and true. You can't try to validate your pain in comparison to someone else's pain and struggles because like I said, the value if both people's problems are equally the same.

 

[ginko0]

Knowing that one of the only sources of mental "relief" is to imagine lives worse than mine...just makes me hate life even more.

 

[PI3.14]

I don't feel guilty at all, cus for each their own. If someone has a way worse life than me and still want to live then so be it, it doesn't mean I should feel bad about wanting to die.

Also, some people can live with low standards of life, I can't. I have been ambitious since I was a kid. I can't live a mediocre life, I just can't...my brain can't and won't accept that.

 

[heyismeman]

How can you feel guilty for others like that. They want to live on good for them. Know what I mean, to each his own

 

[Marcy1024]

Learning math tell me that ordering is such arbitrary thing. I tell to myself; I am not anyone one to value others lifes, I only allowed to critize my own life, and according my own values my life is a shit. I dont dare to considering others lifes, if their are sinners, if they are succesfull or whatever.
However this mindset make difficulty to give honest opinions when someone ask me my opinion about their lifes.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I understand what you mean but then, it isn't our 'fault' we are alive anymore than they got the choice. Why does it happen? Because our parents decided to procreate. Simple. If anyone's to 'blame'- sorry, but it's them. Why bring a child into an environment where it's pretty much guaranteed to suffer?

As for guilt- would you give them your life if you could be relieved of it? (And not have theirs in exchange.) I would. But, we simply can't. All we can do is try to live in a way that causes the least harm possible to others.

That's where I imagine a lot of us genuinely do fall down. Do we really think about how our mod cons were built? When we get a bargain, do we care who was affected? We'd probably just rather not think about all of that. Including our impact on animals and the environment. Personally, I only care up to a point. I'll make sacrifices up to a point. The real proof is in the pudding though.

I suppose the really responsible thing would be to use that guilt to make their lives better but I imagine most of us feel too overwhelmed trying to cope ourselves.

 

[xiaoxiongmao]

Survival is an instinct and most people want to live by default

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I understand what you mean but then, it isn't our 'fault' we are alive anymore than they got the choice. Why does it happen? Because our parents decided to procreate. Simple. If anyone's to 'blame'- sorry, but it's them. Why bring a child into an environment where it's pretty much guaranteed to suffer?

I agree its not our fault we are alive in this hell because this abomination was imposed on us . We are victims more than anyone realizes .

Imo most parents who had children were brainwashed to think "life is good , sacred a gift" .
I think not just my life but life in general is the worst abomination in the universe. Just one reason out of many is that life is the only thing that can cause unending constant unbearable pain. So of course I would never think of having children of imposing this hell on another human where suffering, old age, chores and problems are guaranteed .

Who thinks life in general is bad ? A lot of people even on this site think life is good but only that their situation is bad not realizing that life is so bad 1.5 million people in the U.S. alone attempt suicide per year. But of course we don't hear that

Suicide statistics in the United States - SAVE: Suicide Prevention, Information, and Awareness

Find out more about the prevalence and impact of suicide in the United States.

www.save.org

Suicide statistics

Learn the latest statistics on suicide. Data on suicide are taken from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Data & Statistics Fatal Injury Report for 2018, as of March 1, 2020. Suicide rates listed are Age-Adjusted Rates.

afsp.org

That probably would be a shock to most people that 1.5 million per year in the USA attempt suicide

 

[kopebaldy]

Our brain is very good at convincing us not to kill it but at the same time, is also very good at making life miserable for us and itself.

I failed to understand this behavior.

 

[ididnotconsent]

Mental illness doesn't discriminate between rich and poor and suffering is not a contest. It doesn't matter if someone is suffering way worse then you, suffering is suffering.

 

[amerie]

I don't think that their will to live in necessarily strong but rather they don't really know anything else other than tradition (living for others and working forever) and they've never questioned it and just chalk it up to god or whatever religion. My mom and relatives are like that.

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

If I could trade, I would. Somebody else would likely make better use of my life than I am.

 

[Worndown]

Everyone has a different burden and everyone has a different ability to carry that load.
Ironic, yes It is.

 

[Marcy1024]

Today this thought came to me: it's strange that I have a relatively good life, food at home, internet, computer, leisure, comfort and I want to kill myself, while there are poor people who basically live to work and want to live, no matter how hard life is. What explains this phenomenon?

Sometimes... I think being human is a benefit not all ppl (one of the reasons I want to kill myself is that I dont consider myself human enough, I am hostage of my dessires and vices, I am not human I am an animal)
Sometimes I think some ppl never care if their are humans or not, they (if they exist) and me are just livestock of rich ppl. I see myself just a gear of a complex sistem. Is taht bad? if so, that would imply that things like cells are not worth of existing, but they are... I guess?

I dont consider myself as a complete human. I've failed in constructing myself as a human being. I consdier the most humanly and free what can I do is killing myself, in order to avoid living as pathetic unfree being.

 

[Ijustcantanymore]

First thing to do is stop comparing yourself to others. Someone will always be "worse off". Because we're taught to remind ourselves of that in order to dismiss our very valid feelings about our life.

Second. What bad for someone might not be so bad for someone else. Or even worse for another.

If what you are going through is bad for you, then it's bad. There is no threshold of suffering you have to reach in order for yours to be just as valid as anyone else's.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Mental illness doesn't discriminate between rich and poor and suffering is not a contest. It doesn't matter if someone is suffering way worse then you, suffering is suffering.

Not everyone who wants to ctb is even mentally ill.

 

[Intoxicated]

There are games where people try to win. Two teams, and almost everyone playing tries to win each game, each match. If you win every match, then after 10 or 20 games you will get bored. And on the other hand, if you lose every time, then after 5 games you will get tired of it. The ideal is a 55-60% win rate. That way the game is the most fun to play.

I would also consider a different aspect of games - difficulty and challenge. It's important how much effort you put in winning. Low-effort victories seem less entertaining than hard-effort victories. Even if you formally don't lose, a sufficiently challenging process may keep you interested and make you consider the achievements more valuable than if the game were too easy.

IRL, people who gain some things by a huge effort may value them much more than those who have the same things granted for free or with low effort.

 

[joaosembraco12]

I'm not trying to claim anything. I'm just speaking from my own experience.

It seems to me that they haven't lived well enough and they think that if they live a good life that will bring them happiness. So they strive for it. If a person has everything they wanted and lives the way they want it starts to feel empty and they realize there's nothing left to strive for. They have reached the state that others consider happiness but they are not happy. They might have everything, money, lots of free time, but after a while it becomes their normal.

It could also be that your life doesn't have any "roller coasters." Every day feels the same and you're getting tired of it. Other people might often go through something bad and then something good and that contrast gives them the strength to keep going.


I'll give you an example from competitive games. I don't know if you play games or not, so I'll try to explain it simply.
From my own experience.

There are games where people try to win. Two teams, and almost everyone playing tries to win each game, each match. If you win every match, then after 10 or 20 games you will get bored. And on the other hand, if you lose every time, then after 5 games you will get tired of it. The ideal is a 55-60% win rate. That way the game is the most fun to play.

What I mean is that in order to appreciate something good, like a win, you need to compare it to something bad, like a loss.

I think life works the same way. If you always do something good, something you enjoy, then without bad experiences you lose the contrast. It becomes normal and you get bored of it. You may start to feel like quitting the game or quitting life.

It's because it appears that I've won in life and, after winning, I no longer want to go on living, because I've seen that the finish line is boring. But I didn't win, I'm neet and incel, being alone for me has always been a torture and, because of my autism, I've never adapted to the job market. The problem is that I should be able, just like a miserable person or a resident of Gaza, to hope, to want to live in spite of everything and want to succeed, get a girlfriend, get a job, but I've succumbed to doomerism, I don't want any of that, I just stay in my room and wait for my death. I think this view of you has an elemental error of putting hope as a driving force for people, I don't think it is, everyone on this forum could also have hope, but we've given up. Anyway, this is it, I just don't understand why some people are so resilient while others are so fragile.

I agree its not our fault we are alive in this hell because this abomination was imposed on us . We are victims more than anyone realizes .

Imo most parents who had children were brainwashed to think "life is good , sacred a gift" .
I think not just my life but life in general is the worst abomination in the universe. Just one reason out of many is that life is the only thing that can cause unending constant unbearable pain. So of course I would never think of having children of imposing this hell on another human where suffering, old age, chores and problems are guaranteed .

Who thinks life in general is bad ? A lot of people even on this site think life is good but only that their situation is bad not realizing that life is so bad 1.5 million people in the U.S. alone attempt suicide per year. But of course we don't hear that

Suicide statistics in the United States - SAVE: Suicide Prevention, Information, and Awareness

Find out more about the prevalence and impact of suicide in the United States.

www.save.org

Suicide statistics

Learn the latest statistics on suicide. Data on suicide are taken from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Data & Statistics Fatal Injury Report for 2018, as of March 1, 2020. Suicide rates listed are Age-Adjusted Rates.

afsp.org

That probably would be a shock to most people that 1.5 million per year in the USA attempt suicide

Wise words, the Media tries to cover up this reality from us, because of their vested interests, we feel that everyone wants to live and we are the only ones who are abominations. But all we need to do a Google search and we'll see that thousands of people kill themselves every day. In my country, Brazil, an average of 38 people kill themselves every day. Anyway, this is it, it's more normal than it seems, the dirty media will hide it at all costs, propagate against assisted suicide, invest in architectures so that people don't kill themselves, but it's not paying attention to people's well-being, it only wants people to suffer to support the system rather than kill themselves.

 

[joaosembraco12]

Sometimes... I think being human is a benefit not all ppl (one of the reasons I want to kill myself is that I dont consider myself human enough, I am hostage of my dessires and vices, I am not human I am an animal)
Sometimes I think some ppl never care if their are humans or not, they (if they exist) and me are just livestock of rich ppl. I see myself just a gear of a complex sistem. Is taht bad? if so, that would imply that things like cells are not worth of existing, but they are... I guess?

I dont consider myself as a complete human. I've failed in constructing myself as a human being. I consdier the most humanly and free what can I do is killing myself, in order to avoid living as pathetic unfree being.

I stopped to think about it for a minute, and I think my anguish is that, like you, we blame ourselves for our losses. This isn't how it works, it's not all our fault. I personally tried to work, despite being NEET. The problem is that, because I'm autistic, my social skills are limited and I can't adapt well to any job. The best I could do would be to wash toilets, be an attendant at MCDonalds or something like that, but, living in Brazil, I know how miserable these jobs would make my life. Besides, I don't know how to drive, I've tried but I can't, and in my country it's impossible to live without a car, because public transportation is so precarious. If I went to get a job in a better country, I'd suffer xenophobia and, in addition, anti-immigration policies would keep me out. As well as being NEET, the fact that I'm incel has resulted in me being bullied and embarrassed by other people, which has made me avoid talking about the subject and become reclusive, even progressive friends have mocked me for being a virgin. In other words, it's not our fault, it's society's fault. In a scenario of oppression, there are those who revolt, those who submit and those who kill themselves - many slaves have committed suicide. Normal, I'm the last one.

 

[joaosembraco12]

If I could trade, I would. Somebody else would likely make better use of my life than I am.

Absolutely! It's so sad to see innocent people dying in Gaza, refugees dying on boats, and everything else. These are people who just wanted to feed the system, work like anyone else, earn little, enough to survive, and get on with their lives. It's even good for the bourgeoisie, they would feed their profits and their petty greed. Meanwhile, I, who don't work, can't kill myself, the UK will take this website down, SN is no longer being sold freely, assisted suicide and euthanasia are taboo for religious people, architecture with nets on buildings to prevent suicides, they want to do everything to keep us alive in this miserable life, Meanwhile, millions of innocent people who just wanted to be another cog and gear in the grinding machine that is the system are slaughtered without mercy.

I don't think that their will to live in necessarily strong but rather they don't really know anything else other than tradition (living for others and working forever) and they've never questioned it and just chalk it up to god or whatever religion. My mom and relatives are like that.

I discussed this with a friend, and religion plays a central role. After stealing, cheating, or committing any other "sin," there is still hope for forgiveness and repentance. After committing suicide, there is not.

 

[alliecake]

I feel the exact same way. My life isn't necessarily "bad" but I still want to die. But then I think about all the people who are literally dying from cancer/illness and begging for another day on earth and I feel like shit. But at the end of the day, pain is pain.

 

[Lyn]

In my opinion it's a really subjective thing.

Having a hard life doesn't always mean someone wants to die, and having comfort doesn't mean someone feels fulfilled.
And vice versa.

Yes, when you're in survival mode, you're focused on staying alive, I know that from my own experience.
And still - I don't want to live.

On the other hand, once your basic needs are met, the lack of purpose or deeper emotional pain can hit hard. Mental suffering isn't always about how hard life is objectively.
It's about how heavy it feels inside.
It can happen to anyone, no matter their situation.

There is no reason to feel guilty. Though I understand your emotions on this matter.

 

[7one_wonders_if]

If I could trade, I would. Somebody else would likely make better use of my life than I am.

If someone else were making use of your life though it wouldn't be your life anymore, it would be their life. Trading places isn't actually a coherent concept, unless you're referring to transplanting a different brain in your body, but then it's not really you anymore, it someone else living as a passenger in your physical appearance.

I'm not "pro life" positive. I get the CTB appeal and am almost there myself. But i do believe in the uniqueness and unrepeatability of the individual.

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

If someone else were making use of your life though it wouldn't be your life anymore, it would be their life. Trading places isn't actually a coherent concept, unless you're referring to transplanting a different brain in your body, but then it's not really you anymore, it someone else living as a passenger in your physical appearance.

I'm not "pro life" positive. I get the CTB appeal and am almost there myself. But i do believe in the uniqueness and unrepeatability of the individual.

That's kinda the point. I don't find any inherent value in the uniqueness of my individuality, and I wouldn't doubt if many people would love to play "passenger" in my life. There would come a point where the cumulative choices they've made in this vessel fundamentally direct the trajectory of their life, regardless of physical appearance. It's not like we get to choose our physical appearance anyways. We're just by-products of phenotypes and genotypes reacting to their environment.

I didn't choose this shell, but if somebody else wanted it, I'd gladly give it to them.

 

[ShadowedChaos]

Just because someone drowns in 3 feet of water vs 30 feet doesn't change the fact they're drowning. Everybody's hell is different what might affect someone really strongly may have no affect on me and vice versa something that may destroy me might not even make someone else flinch.