Venting i don't even really know WHY i'm suicidal. struggling to get diagnosed.

[endofeverything]

yeah, what the title says. i feel like most people can somewhat describe why they wanna CTB, be it something that happened or some disease they have.

for what it's worth, on the surface, my life is going alright. i have friends, a really easy job, cheap rent, living in a safe and rich 1st world country, average normal childhood, and things to look forward to in my future. i'm smart and can do most things i put my mind to. i'm single only by choice. of course bad things happen to me sometimes, and my health isn't great either, but it's nothing that should make me want to die so badly.

it's so, so exhausting to not really understand what is wrong. the doctors im seeing about it haven't been much help either, their diagnosis always lands on "depression" and nothing else. none of the meds work. whenever i try to explain that my struggles go deeper than simply "not feelin it", they get really angry or dismissive with me, because they think i'm trying to self-diagnose. sometimes, it feels like i'm being accused of lying for attention or something. honestly feels like i'm getting punished for being able to cope on a surface level with my mental issues. i don't *appear* insane, and my life hasn't fallen apart *yet*, so if i simply say how my mind works, they don't believe me.

all i want is an explanation, a word, literally anything that makes me understand myself better, but, tough fuckin luck!! i know deep inside that my depression is a symptom of something else, and not a disease in itself. but i can't seem to get the right help. i'm so tired. i just want out of this fever dream of a life, hit the reset button and try again. and i don't even know why.

i guess this is sorta my introduction? thanks for reading. feeling really stupid to be posting all this.​

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Suicidality is not always a symptom of a mental illness or disorder, nor is it even an indication that there is anything wrong at all. If you've done a lot of self-reflection and seen "professionals" and are still coming up empty, I would say it's likely that you've arrived at suicidality through logical/philosophical means, ie. the belief that life is not innately valuable or meaningful, and on balance, there's more bad things in life than good things, so it makes sense to kill yourself. Nothing stupid at all about this, it's just not well-understood or even acknowledged outside pro-choice circles.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Why do you believe that your depression is a symptom of something else? I'm asking to be rude, I'm just curious.

 

[niki wonoto]

I'm from Indonesia (42/M). Yeah, I can deeply relate with your post & what you've said. On the surface level, my life might seems good, perhaps even much better than most people. I'm quite privileged, & even spoiled & pampered too much. Especially when I was a lot much younger, at least I've already enjoyed many things that even a lot of people in my country could not even have. I often feel guilty, ashamed, pathetic, when especially my parents keep telling me that I should really be grateful (well, I AM grateful!), & stop complaining etc2.

But, my life is still not perfect either. I don't know. I guess the problem is me myself. Despite I'm being quite talented in music (yes I'm a musician, although sadly a failed & not successful/famous one), but I feel like my personality feels more like a 'curse', rather than a 'blessing/gift', because I seem to have so many flaws. I'm a NEET, which means I basically haven't really worked for a long time, & still live with my parents. Right now, I'm still single at my middle-age (42), even despite I'm physically quite good (a lot of people said), & still privileged enough to drive cars, quite big house, eat good plenty of foods, still living quite comfortably, still quite healthy, studied & traveled overseas, used to be in four relationships, performed in quite okay orchestra, events, stages, etc2. I was diagnosed with Major Depression back in 2020. But I seriously think/feel that my 'mental health' issues/problems are a LOT much more than just only depression, ie: I probably belong to neurodivergent, autism/autistic spectrum, OCD, ADHD, & now even social anxiety. And I also have what's called the existential depression, also for a long time, & sadly it's just getting a lot worse now as I've got much older.

People underestimate & downplayed all my problems, because they think (& see) that my life already looks good. Even all my problems are usually just dismissed. This makes me feel even more like a sad, pathetic loser, & especially I feel like I'm just a waste of space & oxygen that should not exist in this world, yet here I am, still just existing, & just rotting away basically.

Sorry this get too long. But, if you've seen my posts, threads, & comments, you'll know what I mean. See, even I'm making a long-winded comment like this is already not 'normal'. But anyway, I guess I just want to say again that I can relate with your post. Thank you for posting.

 

[ConfusedClouds]

I really relate to this. So frustrating and isolating.

 

[endofeverything]

suicidality through logical/philosophical means, ie. the belief that life is not innately valuable or meaningful, and on balance, there's more bad things in life than good things, so it makes sense to kill yourself.

i see what you mean, and i just spent a long time thinking about this because i've never really asked myself any of these questions, and a lot of my thoughts turned out to be contradicting themselves.... it's been tough trying to write something comprehensive. but, bottom line, i don't think that's what is happening to me. i grew up christian, and when i eventually escaped it, i never felt like i had lost a meaning or a reason to keep going in life. i'm fine with meaninglessness.

i discovered this for myself when i first tried to CTB some years back. it's probably what has carried me this far without being more actively suicidal. i rather just wish i could disappear without a trace, or try life again, or something like that. or at least not be under this incomprehensible mental anguish that makes it really hard to do anything. i want to live, just not like this.

Why do you believe that your depression is a symptom of something else? I'm asking to be rude, I'm just curious.

you ARE asking to be rude? damn, at least you're honest

typo jokes aside, since i'm unable to get a diagnosis for anything else, i can only really call it a hunch. i'm not a professional and i don't trust online self-help quizzes. but i know there's something else that doesn't make sense about how i think and perceive the world. it's wrong, and it causes me to struggle with everything so so much more than any other normal person. i don't have a lack of energy from a depression, i'm just constantly spending so much energy on managing everything else in my life that i'm just exhausted by the end of a day. this is the key difference, in my mind.

 

[976mera]

as I read through your post and reply, I felt more seen than I ever have before. I relate so much to your train of thought and your experiences. sometimes, I wish so hard that I had a reason to feel this way, so that I may have somewhere to direct my frustrations at the very least. but without even that grace, what are we supposed to do? I agree that its frustrating and extremely debilitating to our daily lives, and I'm genuinely sorry that someone like you, who seems to be kind and levelheaded, has to feel this way in silent.
I find that to cope in the meantime, I lose myself in things I love, be it music, my work, or writing. but what else is there to do than distract us from what we really want?

 

[endofeverything]

as I read through your post and reply, I felt more seen than I ever have before. I relate so much to your train of thought and your experiences. sometimes, I wish so hard that I had a reason to feel this way, so that I may have somewhere to direct my frustrations at the very least. but without even that grace, what are we supposed to do? I agree that its frustrating and extremely debilitating to our daily lives, and I'm genuinely sorry that someone like you, who seems to be kind and levelheaded, has to feel this way in silent.
I find that to cope in the meantime, I lose myself in things I love, be it music, my work, or writing. but what else is there to do than distract us from what we really want?

i think it's interesting that you would see me as kind and levelheaded, even though i don't remember writing anything that would suggest so - out of curiosity, what makes you think so?

i see myself as the dead opposite of kind or levelheaded, im super judgemental and opinionated, but i try my hardest not to show that side in real life interactions.

 

[Leichter Kampfwagen]

Same thing for me, except I stopped being able to hold it all together and everything fell apart. It doesn't feel different from when I had it all together though, and it was sort of like I was doing everything and was like "eh, this kind of isn't worth it" and just shut down completely. So while my life sucks now, it's not the reason I'm suicidal. I was suicidal when my life was objectively good and I feel the same way now, and I would do nothing different. I knew then my life was objectively good and I still wanted to die. It's not like "oh, I wish I knew how good I had it and didn't throw it all away," I knew when I was throwing it away and was actively telling myself that (that I'm super privileged and my life is objectively good) while I was throwing it away. I even remember being confused and trying to find some reason that I wanted to die, and I couldn't find any. I literally had everything I could have ever wanted, knew it, and wanted to die. And I've had it "back" a few times and threw it away again those times as well. I wouldn't do anything differently because there's no new information that I've gained from the change in lifestyle other than that nothing changed. So while you could look at me now and say life sucks -> (hence) suicidal, you'd be missing the part where life was good -× (illogical?) suicidal.

This probably made no sense cause I'm mentally cooked. I'm normally a good writer lmao.

 

[endofeverything]

This probably made no sense cause I'm mentally cooked. I'm normally a good writer lmao.

i understand what you wrote perfectly. it's a chicken or egg situation, i think. people from the outside will look at us and think "their life is miserable, therefore they are depressed", but in reality we were depressed before and the terrible life followed. i think people who never experienced depression don't understand how debilitating it really is, they just think: "that's a lazy person who hasn't tried hard enough to pull themselves out of the pit and overcome it". most people don't understand that mental illness is something that can affect anyone at any time irrespective of the current state of their life. but apparently, as far as my doctors are concerned, my life going okay is proof that i can't be more mentally ill. how the hell does that logic work???? you'd think doctors of all people should be more well-informed than the average person about mental illness, but oh well.

i've been keeping it together for a while but i can feel my life slipping through my grip now. i can feel myself giving up. my bank account is deep red from compulsive spending, my health took a nosedive from all the things i now let myself do to my body, and i think i'm very close to being fired from my job. it would at least be justified, because i haven't done anything in over a year there. i just can't. if i lose this job, i'll lose my flat soon after, i don't think i have the energy to seek new employment anymore. it wouldn't be the first time i'm without a place to live, but i don't want to go through it again, to be honest.

i've now been prescribed the 4th new antidepressant, and have been taking it for a while, but i don't feel any different. i don't think i'm depressed without reason, but i just don't know the reason and can't figure it out.

 

[The_Hunter]

it's a chicken or egg situation, i think. [...] i think people who never experienced depression don't understand how debilitating it really is[...].

i've now been prescribed the 4th new antidepressant, and have been taking it for a while, but i don't feel any different. i don't think i'm depressed without reason, but i just don't know the reason and can't figure it out.

I am deeply sorry to hear about your current situation. I completely agree that people are quick to judge others and look down, when in reality, their struggles are in reality very legitimate, and certainly not to be scoffed at or thrown under the bus.

I truly hope that you are able to figure out that reason. When you're in the clusterfuck, it can be hard to clearly figure out why the clusterfuck just keeps confusing you.

Other stresses in life do affect you, and can affect greatly. You wrote that you are suffering from a bad state in your bank account and serious concerns of being fired from your job, and general dysfunctionality in life--I can completely see how this can further debilitate you in your ability to feel well about yourself and things. Is it that you're still unsure of what the root cause of your dysfunctionality is, the core cause of confusion here for you? Just wondering.

Also just wanted to take this opportunity to offer my PMs if you ever want someone to vent to and maybe even point off advice as well. I assure you I am very willing to read long letters and analyze them; so perhaps that could help as well, if you feel you might be interested in that.

Your struggles are very real. I wish you all the power and luck possible in these insanely rough times that you are experiencing. My words with you.

 

[cyclicism]

Add me to the list of people who feel incredibly seen and relate to your post, OP.

For the longest time, I've just considered myself suicidal. Point blank. I used to want a diagnosis, and would explore different mental illnesses suuuuper expertly using google, but now I don't give a shit. I would get imposter syndrome if I got diagnosed for any illness, but I know 100% I can consider myself to be suicidal, plain and simple. It's the only thing I know to be true.

I guess my apathy towards getting any sort of diagnosis (if there even is one to dish out to begin with) is where our similarities part ways. Honestly, the experience of a therapist jumping the gun and barreling towards identifying the evil mental illness pisses me off. I just want the fact that I feel like shit and use suicide as a major point of comfort to be acknowledged and validated in a way that isn't fucking hospitalization or some stupid shit like that. Of course, it helps negatively% that suicide is the number one thing you have to be careful about talking about with anyone (be it a MH provider or just anyone in your immediate life).

But yeah, here's to the average joes who are just relentlessly plagued by suicidal tendencies. Cheers, guys.

 

[whaleandwasp]

yeah, what the title says. i feel like most people can somewhat describe why they wanna CTB, be it something that happened or some disease they have.

for what it's worth, on the surface, my life is going alright. i have friends, a really easy job, cheap rent, living in a safe and rich 1st world country, average normal childhood, and things to look forward to in my future. i'm smart and can do most things i put my mind to. i'm single only by choice. of course bad things happen to me sometimes, and my health isn't great either, but it's nothing that should make me want to die so badly.

it's so, so exhausting to not really understand what is wrong. the doctors im seeing about it haven't been much help either, their diagnosis always lands on "depression" and nothing else. none of the meds work. whenever i try to explain that my struggles go deeper than simply "not feelin it", they get really angry or dismissive with me, because they think i'm trying to self-diagnose. sometimes, it feels like i'm being accused of lying for attention or something. honestly feels like i'm getting punished for being able to cope on a surface level with my mental issues. i don't *appear* insane, and my life hasn't fallen apart *yet*, so if i simply say how my mind works, they don't believe me.

all i want is an explanation, a word, literally anything that makes me understand myself better, but, tough fuckin luck!! i know deep inside that my depression is a symptom of something else, and not a disease in itself. but i can't seem to get the right help. i'm so tired. i just want out of this fever dream of a life, hit the reset button and try again. and i don't even know why.

i guess this is sorta my introduction? thanks for reading. feeling really stupid to be posting all this.​

Major depressive disorder (MDD) is so much more than just "not feelin' it." It can present in a lot of different ways, and you can be severely depressed but not feel "sad." This may be a reason they may of seemed irritated, maybe they felt you didn't understand the seriousness of depression as a disease and the various ways it can manifest? I don't understand why they would get irritated with you though, I work in healthcare and it's taken me years to understand how weird brains are and I'm still learning about my own brain all the time. Also, as second poster mentioned, suicidal ideations or compulsions are not always the result of strictly MDD..but that usually is the case for most people.

 

[niki wonoto]

Major depressive disorder (MDD) is so much more than just "not feelin' it." It can present in a lot of different ways, and you can be severely depressed but not feel "sad." This may be a reason they may of seemed irritated, maybe they felt you didn't understand the seriousness of depression as a disease and the various ways it can manifest? I don't understand why they would get irritated with you though, I work in healthcare and it's taken me years to understand how weird brains are and I'm still learning about my own brain all the time. Also, as second poster mentioned, suicidal ideations or compulsions are not always the result of strictly MDD..but that usually is the case for most people.

I was diagnosed with Major Depression back in 2020 (by my therapist counselor here in Jakarta, Indonesia). What's so frustrating is that even I had to initiate first to ask my therapist counselor/psychologist to please I want to get diagnosed whether I really have depression or not. Because even some of the close people (family especially my father/dad, & friends) didn't believe that I have a depression, & even said that I'm just simply making excuses & just being lazy.. Even my (ex) girlfriend back then got irritated telling me that having a depression is not something to be proud of..

Even still until today now, those same close people still tend to see me & judge me as anything but depressed.. eg: "you're just seeking attention, making excuses, or being weak, pathetic, crybaby, ungrateful, whiner, complainer, childish, stupid, loser" etc etc2..

Honestly, I don't know.. but, I feel what I feel.. (& I think what I think.. ) , and it led me here now..

 

[Forever Sleep]

Firstly, it's not stupid to express yourself here. That's partly what the forum is for. I think to some extent, we are all trying to help one another muddle through the quagmire of our minds.

Firstly, is it because you think others think you have an ok life or, is it that you genuinely believe that yourself? Does your sadness really just hit out of the blue or, are there thoughts or things that trigger it? Do you know when this all started? Have you had happier periods in your life? Was there a significant change where things got worse? I think it's maybe useful to try and really try to work out what's making you unhappy.

I'm assuming for a lot of people- if it isn't illness troubling them, it's some sort of hope for life that hasn't worked out. What did you hope your life was going to be like? Did it turn out that way?

Also, maybe a bit personal but, how was your childhood or, earlier years? Do you suppose it might be trauma related? Something coming back to bother you now?

I'm guessing you've considered things like diet and exercise to see of they affect or help your mood?

 

[diviosd]

There's just not always a reason. Some people are just broken. No cause and no cure. It's just how they are.

 

[976mera]

i think it's interesting that you would see me as kind and levelheaded, even though i don't remember writing anything that would suggest so - out of curiosity, what makes you think so?

i see myself as the dead opposite of kind or levelheaded, im super judgemental and opinionated, but i try my hardest not to show that side in real life interactions.

I think it's implied. In your tone, your kindness to others here in the replies, and mostly (thought maybe selfishly) i see your kindness in how much I relate to you. I just know you're dead wrong about yourself

 

[endofeverything]

hi again. really been meaning to check in here more often, but i've been so drained and exhausted these past weeks that it just wasn't possible to deal with the amount of conscious thought i have to put into writing replies. currently at a new low, here goes nothing

Is it that you're still unsure of what the root cause of your dysfunctionality is, the core cause of confusion here for you? Just wondering.
Also just wanted to take this opportunity to offer my PMs

thanks for your offer, but i'm okay typing in here. i'm no good in 1 on 1 conversations, i prefer open discussions.
i guess i'm fairly sure for myself what the root cause is (on a surface level), but i don't know how to deal with it and don't get any help since it doesn't seem like i am believed when i try to explain it

Of course, it helps negatively% that suicide is the number one thing you have to be careful about talking about with anyone (be it a MH provider or just anyone in your immediate life).

this is one of the hardest parts for me. feels like the act of trying to get help comes with disadvantages that just end up acting like a deterrent from even trying. it's really like im walking on eggshells all the time trying to navigate without anyone noticing how i really feel. i just have to lie all the time about it.

maybe they felt you didn't understand the seriousness of depression as a disease and the various ways it can manifest? I don't understand why they would get irritated with you though

no, i took it very seriously. they just didn't like me suggesting that my depressive feelings are caused by something, instead of being a mental illness in itself. of course, i never directly state it like that. but every time i tried to bring up the things and thought processes that lead me to feel the way i do, i was immediately met with a wall. "well, these other mental illnesses have this and that symptom, which you don't exhibit" - like clockwork, every time.

how do they think the can even know IF i have these other various symptoms? maybe i'm just hiding them and compensating for them all the time. doesn't mean they're not real.

close people (family especially my father/dad, & friends) didn't believe that I have a depression, & even said that I'm just simply making excuses & just being lazy.. Even my (ex) girlfriend back then got irritated telling me that having a depression is not something to be proud of..

Even still until today now, those same close people still tend to see me & judge me as anything but depressed.. eg: "you're just seeking attention, making excuses, or being weak, pathetic, crybaby, ungrateful, whiner, complainer, childish, stupid, loser" etc etc2..

this part is the worst of it to me. out of fear of also experiencing this, nobody in my life knows i'm depressed. i only ever opened up to my brother, and only because i kinda had to. luckily he is understanding. but he doesn't know the full extent of it either

Firstly, is it because you think others think you have an ok life or, is it that you genuinely believe that yourself? Does your sadness really just hit out of the blue or, are there thoughts or things that trigger it? Do you know when this all started? Have you had happier periods in your life? Was there a significant change where things got worse? I think it's maybe useful to try and really try to work out what's making you unhappy.

I'm assuming for a lot of people- if it isn't illness troubling them, it's some sort of hope for life that hasn't worked out. What did you hope your life was going to be like? Did it turn out that way?

Also, maybe a bit personal but, how was your childhood or, earlier years? Do you suppose it might be trauma related? Something coming back to bother you now?

I'm guessing you've considered things like diet and exercise to see of they affect or help your mood?

-i genuinely have an okay life. for all the regrets and troubles i have, there are also so many things that went my way, and i'm incredibly privileged to be in the state i am in - just by sheer luck, mostly.
-my sadness is triggered by things. i know what those are and do a great deal of things to avoid them or compensate. i don't know where these triggers are coming from, though. other people aren't this troubled by such simple matters. i am. this is the part where a diagnosis or literally anything would be helpful, i think. anti-depressant meds clearly don't work, and the 4th one i previously mentioned is also failing me currently. i don't feel any better
-it's been gradually starting since my late teenage years, although i've been struggling with certain things for longer than that, reaching all the way into young childhood
-there were better times, most notably the last two years up until recently. a lot of it was hinged on the fact that i was making a great deal of improvements in my life, new experiences, and just generally progressing.
-it recently got worse with insomnia that became unmanageable. i've been getting under 5 hours and as little as 2 hours of sleep per night for almost a year. it's too long to get into here, though, i'd have to write a 5 page paragraph (and probably lose anonymity to people who recognize my specific health issues.... not that i think they browse this forum, but i'd still rather not, i think.)
-i guess i know what's making me unhappy, just not WHY it's making me unhappy, or how to manage it permanently.
-my life isn't anywhere near what i want it to be, although it's been progressing towards it up until recently. the ability to progress towards that life is very dependent on me not being suicidal, though. the feeling that i'm running out of time to get things right has been with me for a few years.
-my childhood was good except for the parts that weren't. im a gay guy who grew up in a christian household. that's as much as i'm gonna say. self-hate, insecurity, and feeling of inadequacy run deep. despite extensive therapy, they persist, and they are definitely part of what make things so hard for me now. no point dwelling on it, though.
-i've been trying to diet, with zero success. exercise makes me feel somewhat better, but due to health reasons it's impossible to keep it up.

i hope none of this is contradictory. i try my hardest to be honest, but i'm compulsively dishonest about some things, and also really confused about a lot of other things. it makes it hard to explain anything, i constantly have to double-check what i just typed.

There's just not always a reason. Some people are just broken. No cause and no cure. It's just how they are.

agree that there isn't always a cure, but there is a cause. brains aren't normally meant to feel this way. the brokenness doesn't always fit into one diagnosable box, but it still has a cause. but that's semantics

I think it's implied. In your tone, your kindness to others here in the replies, and mostly (thought maybe selfishly) i see your kindness in how much I relate to you. I just know you're dead wrong about yourself

that's nice of you, but it really is the opposite. i go pretty far out of my way to be kind and fit in, but i'm mostly apathetic and self-serving. i really wish i was wrong about myself

 

[heavysoul]

I also find myself relating to this.
Especially since I decided to try writing a first draft of a suicide note, I've realized I have trouble articulating and even identifying many of the reasons I want to ctb.

It kind of just feels like ever since I had the first taste of suicidality, feeling like life was so worthless and hopeless that it's objectively better to be dead, it's been so hard to forget that feeling.

So even if I've strayed from why I originally wanted to kill myself or maybe I never even really had a reason in the first place, the feeling just has a way of lingering. Now that my brain is saying to me "I want to kill myself" every single day, it feels impossible not to listen to it.

I even find myself looking for reasons sometimes, reading other people's stories and reasonings because hopefully I'll find some sort of answer there.

I definitely want to identify why I'm feeling this way because, for lack of a better reason, it would be so dumb if I killed myself and couldn't even leave a note explaining why.

 

[endofeverything]

I also find myself relating to this.
Especially since I decided to try writing a first draft of a suicide note, I've realized I have trouble articulating and even identifying many of the reasons I want to ctb.

i can relate to not knowing what i would put on a suicide note. i probably just wouldn't write one at all. if anything, i'd prefer to disappear without a trace anyway, instead of make my suffering more known.

i know during my last attempt i didn't write one, although it was somewhat spontaneous from an antidepressant-induced manic episode, so it doesn't really count. i wasn't thinking clearly then.

 

[orangepulp]

To be honest psychiatry isn't always the answer to our problems, we don't need their validation

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

Maybe there's nothing to diagnose. Acknowledging that humans and society are toxic and that life is pretty much pointless is not mental sickness. It's merely accpeting reality and not wanting to exist in it anymore.

 

[endofeverything]

To be honest psychiatry isn't always the answer to our problems, we don't need their validation

that's true, but i can't know if it is or isn't the answer without ever getting the chance for it. maybe some day i'll get properly diagnosed and nothing changes, but at least then i know that it wasn't what i needed. for now, i got nothing

Maybe there's nothing to diagnose. Acknowledging that humans and society are toxic and that life is pretty much pointless is not mental sickness. It's merely accpeting reality and not wanting to exist in it anymore.

i don't doubt that this is true for some, but not for me. i am well-aware, and don't care, that humans and society is toxic and that life is pointless. it's never bothered me. i'm at peace with it. it's not the source of my suicidalilty