Method I asked questions about gases such as Argon, Helium, N2O to ChatGpt and learned a lot

[curiousbeing]

So... It seems gases trigger euphoria in two different ways: gases such as argon trigger asphyxiation, they quickly replace oxygen. They don't affect Central Nervous System at all. Argon's ability to trigger euphoria lies on its quick hypoxia power. Argon is also not toxic, unlike Toluene (inhaling Toluene can harm kidneys so much). Even if we manually hold our breaths and trigger hypoxia, we may feel high.

And then, there are gases such as Xenon (it's very rare, much stronger than N2O), N2O, R152, R134a, Toluene, etc. These gases induce hypoxia slower than argon, but inhaling them affects Central Nervous System (CNS for short) , it has depressant effect on CNS. These gases ability to induce euphoria is due to their ability to influence CNS. Hypoxia comes later, later than CNS is affected and one feels drowsy. This is kinda similar to opioids, morphine, but they are much more stronger than these gases

Xenon, N2O are the most strong Ones. Freon gases such as R152, R134a are moderately strong. Chloroform, Toluene are stronger than freon gases, but these gases are very toxic to body.

Flammability. Some gases such as butane, propane can be stronger than R152 but less strong than N2O, but they can flame. I researched, R134a is much less prone to flammability than R152. Otherwise, both gases require ignition source to flame.


My mind is very foggy, I can be wrong. You can ask ChatGpt following prompts and research for yourself:

"List 30 gases from the strongest to the weakest euphoria triggering, based on their ability to induce hypoxia"

"List 30 gases from the strongest to the weakest euphoria triggering, based on their ability to influence CNS"

""List 30 gases from the strongest to the weakest in terms of toxicity and / or flammability"
İ can't find N2O, other than N2O, R152 is the strongest gas, followed by R134a. Unfortunately, I couldn't find R-152a (but it is more prone to flammability than R-134a), so I will get R-134a. R-134a is weaker than inhaling butane but butane is dangerous, it can flame.


My method is to drown myself by inhaling euphoria inducing gas and losing consciousness, falling into cold sea (average weather temperature: 6C)

 

[Intoxicated]

The info provided by ChatGPT is not always precise and cannot be fully relied on. For example, you can look at my short conversation about the cost of xenon with it here

Spoiler

How much does xenon cost?

The cost of xenon gas can vary widely depending on factors like purity, quantity, and market conditions. As of recent years (2023-2024), the general price range for xenon gas is approximately:

• $1,000 to $5,000 per liter for high-purity xenon gas in small quantities (e.g., for laboratory use).
• For bulk purchases or larger quantities, the cost might decrease somewhat, but it's still on the higher end because xenon is a rare noble gas and is typically extracted from air in small quantities.

Xenon is not abundantly available and is mainly used in specialized applications such as:

• Lighting: Xenon gas is used in high-intensity discharge lamps, including those for automotive headlights, projectors, and medical equipment.
• Aerospace and medical fields: It has uses in certain types of anesthesia, as well as in some space exploration technologies.
• Research and industrial uses: Xenon is used in specific applications that require inert environments, such as certain kinds of lasers and high-performance optics.

In addition to the cost of the gas itself, prices can also be influenced by factors such as shipping, storage, and purity level, especially since xenon is typically sold in high-pressure cylinders. Keep in mind that this price range is a rough estimate and could fluctuate depending on the supplier, location, and specific market conditions at the time.

You mentioned that the price of xenon is approximately $1,000 to $5,000 per liter without specifying the pressure. 1 liter at 1 atm and 1 liter at 100 atm represent different amounts of gas, so it's difficult to determine an actual cost from your answer. Could you either clarify the implied pressure or tell the approximate cost of xenon per gram?

You're absolutely right, and I apologize for the confusion. The price of xenon gas is highly dependent on the pressure at which it is stored, as well as the form in which it's purchased. Since xenon is typically sold in high-pressure cylinders (often 200–250 atm), the volume at 1 atm (standard atmospheric pressure) would indeed differ from the actual volume of gas in the cylinder.

Cost of Xenon per Gram

To give a more precise answer, it's more useful to refer to the cost of xenon per gram rather than per liter at a specific pressure. As of 2023-2024, the cost of xenon is approximately $10 to $50 per gram depending on factors like purity, supplier, and the specific market conditions.

To clarify further:

• 1 liter of xenon gas at 1 atm (at standard temperature and pressure) would contain about 5.9 grams of xenon.
• At 100 atm in a pressurized cylinder, 1 liter would contain approximately 590 grams of xenon gas.

This means if you're purchasing xenon in a typical high-pressure cylinder, you are buying it at a much higher density than at standard pressure, and the cost will reflect this.

Approximate Calculation:

• If the price is around $10 to $50 per gram, then:
  • For 1 gram of xenon, the cost would range between $10 and $50.
  • For 1 liter of xenon at 1 atm, the cost would range from $59 to $295 (since 1 liter at 1 atm = approximately 5.9 grams).
  • For 1 liter of xenon at 100 atm, the cost would be much higher, ranging from $5,900 to $29,500 for the 590 grams in the cylinder.

These numbers are estimates, and the actual price can vary based on the supplier, purity (e.g., >99% pure vs. ultra-high purity), and the intended use.

Summary:

• Cost per gram: ~$10 to $50.
• Cost per liter at 1 atm: $59 to $295 (for 5.9 grams).
• Cost per liter at 100 atm: $5,900 to $29,500 (for 590 grams).

This gives a clearer picture of how much xenon might cost, depending on the quantity and pressure in which it is purchased.

I find it wonderful though how it was able to recognize and admit its mistake after I provided an elaborated hint.

It would be interesting to figure out how much xenon is better than nitrous oxide by trying both. Some described experiences with xenon sound very appealing.

https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=114686

Wish it were as cheap as nitrous ))

 

[curiousbeing]

The info provided by ChatGPT is not always precise and cannot be fully relied on. For example, you can look at my short conversation about the cost of xenon with it here

Spoiler

How much does xenon cost?

The cost of xenon gas can vary widely depending on factors like purity, quantity, and market conditions. As of recent years (2023-2024), the general price range for xenon gas is approximately:

• $1,000 to $5,000 per liter for high-purity xenon gas in small quantities (e.g., for laboratory use).
• For bulk purchases or larger quantities, the cost might decrease somewhat, but it's still on the higher end because xenon is a rare noble gas and is typically extracted from air in small quantities.

Xenon is not abundantly available and is mainly used in specialized applications such as:

• Lighting: Xenon gas is used in high-intensity discharge lamps, including those for automotive headlights, projectors, and medical equipment.
• Aerospace and medical fields: It has uses in certain types of anesthesia, as well as in some space exploration technologies.
• Research and industrial uses: Xenon is used in specific applications that require inert environments, such as certain kinds of lasers and high-performance optics.

In addition to the cost of the gas itself, prices can also be influenced by factors such as shipping, storage, and purity level, especially since xenon is typically sold in high-pressure cylinders. Keep in mind that this price range is a rough estimate and could fluctuate depending on the supplier, location, and specific market conditions at the time.

You mentioned that the price of xenon is approximately $1,000 to $5,000 per liter without specifying the pressure. 1 liter at 1 atm and 1 liter at 100 atm represent different amounts of gas, so it's difficult to determine an actual cost from your answer. Could you either clarify the implied pressure or tell the approximate cost of xenon per gram?

You're absolutely right, and I apologize for the confusion. The price of xenon gas is highly dependent on the pressure at which it is stored, as well as the form in which it's purchased. Since xenon is typically sold in high-pressure cylinders (often 200–250 atm), the volume at 1 atm (standard atmospheric pressure) would indeed differ from the actual volume of gas in the cylinder.

Cost of Xenon per Gram

To give a more precise answer, it's more useful to refer to the cost of xenon per gram rather than per liter at a specific pressure. As of 2023-2024, the cost of xenon is approximately $10 to $50 per gram depending on factors like purity, supplier, and the specific market conditions.

To clarify further:

• 1 liter of xenon gas at 1 atm (at standard temperature and pressure) would contain about 5.9 grams of xenon.
• At 100 atm in a pressurized cylinder, 1 liter would contain approximately 590 grams of xenon gas.

This means if you're purchasing xenon in a typical high-pressure cylinder, you are buying it at a much higher density than at standard pressure, and the cost will reflect this.

Approximate Calculation:

• If the price is around $10 to $50 per gram, then:
  • For 1 gram of xenon, the cost would range between $10 and $50.
  • For 1 liter of xenon at 1 atm, the cost would range from $59 to $295 (since 1 liter at 1 atm = approximately 5.9 grams).
  • For 1 liter of xenon at 100 atm, the cost would be much higher, ranging from $5,900 to $29,500 for the 590 grams in the cylinder.

These numbers are estimates, and the actual price can vary based on the supplier, purity (e.g., >99% pure vs. ultra-high purity), and the intended use.

Summary:

• Cost per gram: ~$10 to $50.
• Cost per liter at 1 atm: $59 to $295 (for 5.9 grams).
• Cost per liter at 100 atm: $5,900 to $29,500 (for 590 grams).

This gives a clearer picture of how much xenon might cost, depending on the quantity and pressure in which it is purchased.

I find it wonderful though how it was able to recognize and admit its mistake after I provided an elaborated hint.

It would be interesting to figure out how much xenon is better than nitrous oxide by trying both. Some described experiences with xenon sound very appealing.

https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=114686

Wish it were as cheap as nitrous ))

Do you know where you can find Xenon? If you know, could you please let me know?

Propane, R-134a gas balloons/cylinders are commonly sold here, but finding R-152a is difficult, let alone more rare gases such as N2O and Xenon

ChatGpt does make mistakes unfortunately, I also caught a mistake a few days ago. But it immediately apologized and made corrections. It seems that after asking it a question, I must ask a follow up prompt: "Please, if you made any mistakes, correct yourself"

Well, there are a few videos and Quora threads on producing Xenon:

How can I make a device to extract Xenon from the atmosphere?

Answer (1 of 5): First, you'll need an air compressor. Doesn't sound too tricky, except that you'll need a huge one, something that can process a million cubic feet an hour or more (we'll get to why in a minute). And, of course, you'll need to cool the air after you compress it (compression heats...

www.quora.com

Wish it were as cheap as nitrous ))

I googled Xenon and N2O in Russian, it seems there are a few sources in Russia.

Wish it were as cheap as nitrous ))

It seems that in Russia, they can be bought locally, no need to order them online and wait for days.

I wonder, are there any kinds of shops where I can ask for them? For example, R-134a gas is sold here in car repair & car parts selling shops. But how about shops&places selling xenon or N2O? I know, N2O is sold here in a few places where medical equipment such as Computer Tomography, USM devices are sold. Such places won't sell N2O to people outside medical industry like me

Other than places selling medical equipment, where can I find N2O?

If N2O is part of Firefight balloons, maybe I need to buy one of them?

 

[maniac116]

The key to gases is getting one that replaces oxygen. Lack of oxygen doesn't kick off the feeling of oxygen deprivation & SI. Its the buildup of carbon dioxide in the blood that kicks off the desperate attempt to get oxygen & SI

 

[curiousbeing]

The key to gases is getting one that replaces oxygen. Lack of oxygen doesn't kick off the feeling of oxygen deprivation & SI. Its the buildup of carbon dioxide in the blood that kicks off the desperate attempt to get oxygen & SI

They have various speed of replacing oxygen. According to ChatGpt, argon is fastest, freon gases are slower than argon.

 

[Intoxicated]

Do you know where you can find Xenon?

I don't remember, it's been quite a while since I last checked suppliers that sell it. Xenon is too expensive for me, so no point to bother about looking for it. It could be a perfectly good gas for rich people who can afford it.

Propane, R-134a gas balloons/cylinders are commonly sold here, but finding R-152a is difficult

I think, non-flammable gases should be preferred to highly flammable ones, because flammable gases are more likely to be mixed with unpleasantly smelling odorants helping to detect possible leaks. Propane and butane are probably the worst ones in terms of odds of having bad smell due to added mercaptans.

I wonder, are there any kinds of shops where I can ask for them? For example, R-134a gas is sold here in car repair & car parts selling shops. But how about shops&places selling xenon or N2O? I know, N2O is sold here in a few places where medical equipment such as Computer Tomography, USM devices are sold. Such places won't sell N2O to people outside medical industry like me

Other than places selling medical equipment, where can I find N2O?

I obtained food grade N2O in whippets, but whippets probably wouldn't be helpful for your plan with drowning in sea because of difficulties with carrying and consuming the gas stored this way after you enter water. There are bigger cylinders with food grade N2O similar to those which contain refrigerants, but they may be harder to find and purchase than whippets.

If N2O is part of Firefight balloons, maybe I need to buy one of them?

If you mean fire extinguishers, then no. N2O is a strong oxidizer that makes it absolutely inappropriate for fire extinguishing.

 

[curiousbeing]

I don't remember, it's been quite a while since I last checked suppliers that sell it. Xenon is too expensive for me, so no point to bother about looking for it. It could be a perfectly good gas for rich people who can afford it.

I think, non-flammable gases should be preferred to highly flammable ones, because flammable gases are more likely to be mixed with unpleasantly smelling odorants helping to detect possible leaks. Propane and butane are probably the worst ones in terms of odds of having bad smell due to added mercaptans.

I obtained food grade N2O in whippets, but whippets probably wouldn't be helpful for your plan with drowning in sea because of difficulties with carrying and consuming the gas stored this way after you enter water. There are bigger cylinders with food grade N2O similar to those which contain refrigerants, but they may be harder to find and purchase than whippets.

If you mean fire extinguishers, then no. N2O is a strong oxidizer that makes it absolutely inappropriate for fire extinguishing.

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, xenon is both expensive and hard to find. Not worth the trouble to find it

There is lots of propane gas sold here but I will get only and only freon gases. If possible, I will get R-134a, since according to chatgpt, it can make me feel euphoria too. If I can't, I will find and get R-22 or R-32.

Yes,my method is drowning at sea

I found one or two websites that claim to sell N2O. I need to visit those websites and research. Most likely I think they are either outdated websites or simply false information. Other than those websites I need to check, I couldn't find anything else. But I won't feel devastated, since R-134a can also make me feel high, according to ChatGpt. And ultimately, my goal is to use those gases to lose consciousness faster in a cold sea. Asphyxiation and euphoria effect are nice additional bonuses I will get, and although they aren't strictly necessary for me, I feel grateful and happy for asphyxiation and small / medium euphoria I will experience

I obtained food grade N2O in whippets

It's totally fine if you don't want to answer this question, but could you please tell me at which time do you plan to ctb? Next month? Next year? Or never? It's totally okay if you don't want to answer this question.

As for me, I am waiting for New Year holidays to pass. After holidays, probably on January, after I buy 1kg R-134a, I will ctb. Who knows, maybe suddenly I will find a website which will allow me to buy N2O locally. R-134a is more than enough for me, since it allows me to not only just lose consciousness faster but also develop asphyxiation and even experience euphoria. But if I can find N2O, I will use N2O

There are bigger cylinders with food grade N2O similar to those which contain refrigerants, but they may be harder to find and purchase than whippets.

One big advantage of N2O is that it doesn't cause frostbite. Unfortunately, R-134a will most likely cause frostbite after direct inhalation. I may cover hose with socks so gas won't immediately enter my mouth, but I don't know how effective this will be to prevent frostbite. Yes, I can fill some balloon or plastic bag with freon gas and inhale it from them to prevent frostbite, but I am too tired for that. Direct inhalation is very easy and effortless. I hope socks will block as much as possible freezing effects of freon gas so after gas leaves socks, it will be less cold.

Since my goal is ctb and I am sure I won't survive drowning, I don't think I should care about frostbite too much. Frostbite itself can be helpful too, it may freeze some important tissue/organs related to breathing and actually may contribute to my ctb

So, R-134a has 3 additional bonuses for me: asphyxiation, euphoria and frostbite (I don't know how helpful it will be if I cover part of hose in my mouth with socks that allow air to pass).

 

[Intoxicated]

It's totally fine if you don't want to answer this question, but could you please tell me at which time do you plan to ctb? Next month? Next year? Or never?

Just when the life becomes not worth living (many circumstances are involved). No estimated date.

Unfortunately, R-134a will most likely cause frostbite after direct inhalation.

I think, the liquid form is way more dangerous than gaseous substance, hence it makes sense to avoid tilting the cylinder in the first place, because that's the common cause of throwing a fluid instead of a gas from vessels containing liquified gases.

 

[curiousbeing]

Just when the life becomes not worth living (many circumstances are involved). No estimated date.

Thank you for letting me know. I also thought like this, but I don't think I will survive 2025, January. I try my best.

I think, the liquid form is way more dangerous than gaseous substance, hence it makes sense to avoid tilting the cylinder in the first place, because that's the common cause of throwing a fluid instead of a gas from vessels containing liquified gases

I will avoid tilting. I didn't know liquid form was more dangerous. But even if I tilt it, I hope other than ctb, nothing will happen

 

[curiousbeing]

Just when the life becomes not worth living (many circumstances are involved). No estimated date.

I think, the liquid form is way more dangerous than gaseous substance, hence it makes sense to avoid tilting the cylinder in the first place, because that's the common cause of throwing a fluid instead of a gas from vessels containing liquified gases.

A short but important update on my ctb journey:

I contacted about 7 places for getting R-134a. 90% of places said they don't sell it, only one place said "we only sell 13kg cylinder for $100", and one place I contacted for getting R-22 told me "such gases are banned in whole country!". Lol. R-152 is impossible to find, yes, but I didn't know other freon gases were such hard to find

I still will contact a few more shops selling car parts or air conditioners.

It seems freon gases are restricted here, they are only sold to specialists. They don't sell it to just anyone.

If Noone sells me anything, I will buy 2 deodorants (each 150 ml) and ctb by spraying deodorants inside my mouth directly.

I am glad they at least sell deodorants lol

Hopefully this will work.

Just when the life becomes not worth living (many circumstances are involved). No estimated date.

I think, the liquid form is way more dangerous than gaseous substance, hence it makes sense to avoid tilting the cylinder in the first place, because that's the common cause of throwing a fluid instead of a gas from vessels containing liquified gases.

Hopefully, spraying 300 ml deodorant in weather temperature that's between 5-12C will be enough to make me lose my consciousness or just become numb // not caring for cold sea. If I will feel severely dizzy but still conscious, that will still be enough for me

Inhaling gases such as deodorants is like painkiller for me, making me quickly forget I am at sea, lessening my mental suffering a bit.

I hope deodorants will be effective (I am 90% sure I won't be able to find freon gas). If they are effective, they will also trigger euphoria. I heard their euphoria is stronger than R-134. I still wish I could find R-134, at least because it would be 1000 ml, unlike 150-300ml deodorants.

I think I will need to stab myself to increase effectiveness of ctb too.

 

[Romanticize]

how do you use n2o to ctb? its laughing gas, a dissociative similar in its work to ketamine, but much shorter.

I drugged myself on n2o alot, i used probalby more than 500 whippets. The procedure was as following: i put whipped into a baloon, breath it in fully, while holding, prep another baloon, exhale and inhale new baloon. Sometimes 5 baloons which were 5-10 deep breaths.

How can you ctb on it? I mean the mechanism is different than inert gas (helium, nitrogen, argon) hypoxia, right?

 

[curiousbeing]

how do you use n2o to ctb? its laughing gas, a dissociative similar in its work to ketamine, but much shorter.

I drugged myself on n2o alot, i used probalby more than 500 whippets. The procedure was as following: i put whipped into a baloon, breath it in fully, while holding, prep another baloon, exhale and inhale new baloon. Sometimes 5 baloons which were 5-10 deep breaths.

How can you ctb on it? I mean the mechanism is different than inert gas (helium, nitrogen, argon) hypoxia, right?

I am not expert on this stuff, I mean, so far, I couldn't even find and buy (without ordering online from abroad) a simple freon gas such as R-134.

My method isn't hypoxia / asphyxiation by gases. I read that they can be unreliable. This is why my method is drowning at sea, weather temperature between 2 - 12 Celsius. But because it will be too cold, I will inhale to make me lose consciousness faster.

So far, I couldn't found either N2O nor freon gases. So I will have to stick with deodorants. Deodorants contain butane. Butane isn't as effective as freon gases in cold weather unfortunately, but hopefully it will be enough for me

how do you use n2o to ctb? its laughing gas, a dissociative similar in its work to ketamine, but much shorter.

I drugged myself on n2o alot, i used probalby more than 500 whippets. The procedure was as following: i put whipped into a baloon, breath it in fully, while holding, prep another baloon, exhale and inhale new baloon. Sometimes 5 baloons which were 5-10 deep breaths.

How can you ctb on it? I mean the mechanism is different than inert gas (helium, nitrogen, argon) hypoxia, right?

I learned all this inert gas method from @Intoxicated. I hope that member will reply and answer our questions.

I am eternally grateful to this forum. Without this forum, I wouldn't be able to learn all this.

 

[Romanticize]

Spraying a deodorant into your mouth, going unconscious an drowning in a sea? How do you guarantee that while unconscious you will fall into the water?

It is a very elaborate and hard method imo, very hard to pull off.

Also are you sure that deodorant spray in your mouth will make you unconscious? Seems unlikely, but I have to admit I know nothing about gas "R-134".
For inducing consciousness, drugs like benzos are more reliable, have you thought about it?

 

[curiousbeing]

Spraying a deodorant into your mouth, going unconscious an drowning in a sea? How do you guarantee that while unconscious you will fall into the water?

It is a very elaborate and hard method imo, very hard to pull off.

Also are you sure that deodorant spray in your mouth will make you unconscious? Seems unlikely, but I have to admit I know nothing about gas "R-134".
For inducing consciousness, drugs like benzos are more reliable, have you thought about it?

I will submerge myself inside sea, water will be at least at the height of my stomach.

As I inhale deodorant, hopefully it will make me feel strongly dizzy and lose consciousness. I will fall into sea and I assume that I will be drown. If I am not drown, well, fortunately, it's winter here, hypothermia will be deadly. Yes, at summer I wouldn't try this method, I mean what if I don't drown and end up alive? Now, even if I end up alive // not drowned, I will have to survive hypothermia until I am found (possibly 12 hours of hypothermia)

Spraying a deodorant into your mouth, going unconscious an drowning in a sea? How do you guarantee that while unconscious you will fall into the water?

It is a very elaborate and hard method imo, very hard to pull off.

Also are you sure that deodorant spray in your mouth will make you unconscious? Seems unlikely, but I have to admit I know nothing about gas "R-134".
For inducing consciousness, drugs like benzos are more reliable, have you thought about it?

R-134a is a refrigerant. You can Google search about it.

Do you think my method can fail?

For inducing consciousness, drugs like benzos are more reliable, have you thought about it?

unfortunately they aren't sold without prescription. I do have painkillers though. I think that if my method isn't still strong enough, I will take painkillers, inhale deodorant a bit, stab myself in the neck where I can strongly feel my carotid artery pulse (severing at least jugular veins), and then continue inhaling. By inhaling, i mean spraying deodorant directly inside my mouth like 30 times quickly until i lose consciousness

 

[Romanticize]

Oh, your method include stabbing in the neck too?
What am I even reading, wow, I did not encounter a single case that involved deo inhalation + neck stabbing + drowning.
Yes I think it can fail - but I don't want to argue because I have no knowledge how refrigerants are working.

Well, good luck, but that method is very elaborate, and I imagine you will have to overcome HUGE survival instinct to pull that method off.

 

[curiousbeing]

Oh, your method include stabbing in the neck too?
What am I even reading, wow, I did not encounter a single case that involved deo inhalation + neck stabbing + drowning.
Yes I think it can fail - but I don't want to argue because I have no knowledge how refrigerants are working.

Well, good luck, but that method is very elaborate, and I imagine you will have to overcome HUGE survival instinct to pull that method off.

I need to do it. my biggest fear is to fail, that's why I think I will include stabbing. But if I don't include it, just hypothermia for 12+ hours of not being found will be enough I hope

 

[Romanticize]

hypothermia for 12hours is not enough imo. People survived more than that.

Your biggest chance is with drowning, 1 hour without being found is more than enough with drowning.

 

[Intoxicated]

I drugged myself on n2o alot, i used probalby more than 500 whippets. The procedure was as following: i put whipped into a baloon, breath it in fully, while holding, prep another baloon, exhale and inhale new baloon. Sometimes 5 baloons which were 5-10 deep breaths.

When I tested N2O on myself, even one balloon with approximately 4 liters of nitrous oxide (~20 cm in diameter) filled from an 8g cartridge was sufficient to produce near-unconsciousness. First, I exhaled as much air as I could, then I inhaled all gas contained in the balloon (by coincidence, that volume was exactly the one needed to fill the lungs up to their full capacity, so I couldn't inhale any more) and held my breath till I got a strong effect which occurred nearly 7 seconds after the onset of symptoms or 25 seconds after the full inhale was done.

After I resumed breathing, I still felt drifting into unconsciousness, dimming of vision, gradual loss of sense of my body, and loud ringing in the ears. At 35 - 40 seconds since the intake of N2O I felt like I was very close to unconsciousness. At the peak effect, my vision was almost completely disabled and I couldn't read numbers from the clock, but I was still able to count seconds in my mind. Shortly after, my perceptions started to return back to normal, and at nearly 70 seconds since the intake of N2O my senses recovered completely.

If you had to use 5 balloons to perceive noticeable changes, your technique probably was very different from mine. It's easy to waste a lot of gas if the balloon is not attached to the dispenser tightly enough. In particular, this can happen due to presence of saliva/water between the balloon and the dispenser.

Although visually a filled balloon may seem nearly as big as without losses due to leaks, the real volume may decrease substantially because its dependency on the diameter is cubic.

Diameter - Volume
20 cm - 4.19 l
19 cm - 3.59 l
18 cm - 3.05 l
17 cm - 2.57 l
16 cm - 2.14 l
15 cm - 1.77 l
14 cm - 1.44 l
13 cm - 1.15 l
12 cm - 0.90 l
11 cm - 0.70 l
10 cm - 0.52 l

It's also important how much residual air is present in the lungs and how much fresh air you breath in.

How can you ctb on it? I mean the mechanism is different than inert gas (helium, nitrogen, argon) hypoxia, right?

The mechanism is similar. The bag filled with N2O from whippets must be completely sealed around the neck right after the head is placed inside it. If you don't let too much air enter the bag, unconsciousness should occur within a minute and coma should be reached within 1.5 - 3 minutes since the first deep inhale of N2O.

I believe that that same can be done with inert gases as well. I've read about experiments with 5% O2 / 95% N2 mixture producing anesthesia (sufficient for extracting a tooth) in 75 - 95 seconds in dental patients. With 3% O2 / 97% N2O, the time to anesthesia varied between 60 and 75 seconds.

 

[curiousbeing]

hypothermia for 12hours is not enough imo. People survived more than that.

Your biggest chance is with drowning, 1 hour without being found is more than enough with drowning.

Hypothermia is very unreliable. Some people immediately experience shock and cardiac arrest, some people survive for days. Cardiac arrest itself is unreliable too - within a few minutes, quick help can bring a person to life.

Yes. Cutting, asphyxiation from deodorants, salt poisoning, bacterial infection from seawater, and hypothermia - they are all secondary. Drowning itself for one hour is my main method

even one balloon with approximately 4 liters of nitrous oxide

These days I was wondering how much liters are capacity of lungs. It seems capacity of lungs is 4 liters. It means 4000ml.

And one deodorant is just 150ml. Maybe this is exactly why deodorants are unreliable.

And also, it seems, getting minimum 4kg/4l freon gas is very important. Anything less than 4kg is wrong if one's method is asphyxiation.

Since my main method is drowning, I can get away with merely inhaling less than 4L gas.

I wonder, how much ml of gas is necessary for inducing unconsciousness. Like.... How much (in ml) butane is enough AND how much R-134a is enough, and to compare them. For example, in your experience, 4L N2O gas is necessary, I wonder if this is true for butane and R-134a too.

Amount of gas necessary should be different for different purposes: asphyxiation and death, unconsciousness, near unconsciousness, strong dizziness, light dizziness. For me, strong dizziness will be enough to not experience brutal coldness of sea.

 

[Romanticize]

When I tested N2O on myself, even one balloon with approximately 4 liters of nitrous oxide (~20 cm in diameter) filled from an 8g cartridge was sufficient to produce near-unconsciousness. First, I exhaled as much air as I could, then I inhaled all gas contained in the balloon (by coincidence, that volume was exactly the one needed to fill the lungs up to their full capacity, so I couldn't inhale any more) and held my breath till I got a strong effect which occurred nearly 7 seconds after the onset of symptoms or 25 seconds after the full inhale was done.

After I resumed breathing, I still felt drifting into unconsciousness, dimming of vision, gradual loss of sense of my body, and loud ringing in the ears. At 35 - 40 seconds since the intake of N2O I felt like I was very close to unconsciousness. At the peak effect, my vision was almost completely disabled and I couldn't read numbers from the clock, but I was still able to count seconds in my mind. Shortly after, my perceptions started to return back to normal, and at nearly 70 seconds since the intake of N2O my senses recovered completely.

If you had to use 5 balloons to perceive noticeable changes, your technique probably was very different from mine. It's easy to waste a lot of gas if the balloon is not attached to the dispenser tightly enough. In particular, this can happen due to presence of saliva/water between the balloon and the dispenser.

Although visually a filled balloon may seem nearly as big as without losses due to leaks, the real volume may decrease substantially because its dependency on the diameter is cubic.

Diameter - Volume
20 cm - 4.19 l
19 cm - 3.59 l
18 cm - 3.05 l
17 cm - 2.57 l
16 cm - 2.14 l
15 cm - 1.77 l
14 cm - 1.44 l
13 cm - 1.15 l
12 cm - 0.90 l
11 cm - 0.70 l
10 cm - 0.52 l

It's also important how much residual air is present in the lungs and how much fresh air you breath in.


The mechanism is similar. The bag filled with N2O from whippets must be completely sealed around the neck right after the head is placed inside it. If you don't let too much air enter the bag, unconsciousness should occur within a minute and coma should be reached within 1.5 - 3 minutes since the first deep inhale of N2O.

I believe that that same can be done with inert gases as well. I've read about experiments with 5% O2 / 95% N2 mixture producing anesthesia (sufficient for extracting a tooth) in 75 - 95 seconds in dental patients. With 3% O2 / 97% N2O, the time to anesthesia varied between 60 and 75 seconds.

My technique was the same.
1. hyperventilate
2. exhale as much as I can
3. breath in as deeply as I can, usually 1 breath was enough for 1 whippet/baloon, sometimes 2 breaths
4. after each breath i held the air for as long as i could (30-50s)

This technique was better than what most people do - just breathe in, and exhale into the baloon, then inhale again what is now a mixture of n2o/oxygen/co2.

I may have miscommunicated myself - noticeable changes were after 1-2 baloons, after 3-5 the changes were heavy.
However I am a very experienced psychonaut (lots of psychedelic, dissociant use) like ketamine etc, so I am used to have sensory changes, and by getting 5 baloons of nitrous, I usually wanted to have big changes, or I mostly used it to potentiate my psychedelic trip.
And yes, your timeline is correct, trip starts immediately - usually at the end of first baloon (30sec) with plateau being 1-2min, and whole trip was over after 5min. So after 2min the intensity was going down, and after 5min I was completely back to normal. N2O is a nice drug because its so fast, and not addictive, and not risky (from what I've read it's impossible to OD it).

So basically im surprised people want to use nitrous to CTB - I inhaled up to 5 full whippets/baloons and I didn't lose consciousness (yes changes were heavy, vision change, ear ringing, dissociative state), but I can image I can do even more baloons, one after another, without getting even 1 inhalation of normal air.

 

[Intoxicated]

These days I was wondering how much liters are capacity of lungs. It seems capacity of lungs is 4 liters. It means 4000ml.

It varies from person to person. Mine is approximately 5 liters (4 L of vital capacity + 1 L of residual volume).

And also, it seems, getting minimum 4kg/4l freon gas is very important. Anything less than 4kg is wrong if one's method is asphyxiation.

4 kg of R-134a corresponds to approximately 878 liters of gas at 1 atm & 0 °C. You seem to entirely forget about the difference between compressed and uncompressed gas.

I wonder, how much ml of gas is necessary for inducing unconsciousness.

I think, it would be safe to guess that nobody can stand 3 maximal breaths that can be made with 30 L of an asphyxiant gas (assuming that a smaller amount of it can be consumed).

Like.... How much (in ml) butane is enough AND how much R-134a is enough, and to compare them. For example, in your experience, 4L N2O gas is necessary, I wonder if this is true for butane and R-134a too.

I presume, they produce unconsciousness with nearly the same efficiency. Coma is probably achieved faster with N2O because of its anesthetic properties.

My technique was the same.
1. hyperventilate
2. exhale as much as I can
3. breath in as deeply as I can, usually 1 breath was enough for 1 whippet/baloon, sometimes 2 breaths
4. after each breath i held the air for as long as i could (30-50s)

This technique was better than what most people do - just breathe in, and exhale into the baloon, then inhale again what is now a mixture of n2o/oxygen/co2.

The optimal technique probably depends on the goal you want to achieve. If you want to induce a strong hypoxic effect, then max inhale of N2O after max exhale would do the job well. If you want to avoid severe hypoxia (which is harmful for your brain when it happens repeatedly), then techniques that form some reasonable mixes of nitrous and air are the most appropriate.

And yes, your timeline is correct, trip starts immediately - usually at the end of first baloon (30sec) with plateau being 1-2min, and whole trip was over after 5min.

I didn't have any hallucinations (probably because of not having hypoxia progressed so much). The sense of euphoria occurred only a few minutes after inhalation. The first time I felt strong hypoxic effect from nitrous, it was even somewhat scary. The perceptions were different than I imagined before trying.

So basically im surprised people want to use nitrous to CTB - I inhaled up to 5 full whippets/baloons and I didn't lose consciousness (yes changes were heavy, vision change, ear ringing, dissociative state), but I can image I can do even more baloons, one after another, without getting even 1 inhalation of normal air.

The idea is to use a plastic bag over the head instead of balloons. As long as you completely cut access to atmospheric oxygen off, your chances to survive without an intervention of other people are very small. Some cases of death from N2O are listed in the article below (see section "Nitrous Oxide Abuse and Death").

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ajad.12372#ajad12372-sec-0015

 

[curiousbeing]

Mine is approximately 5 liters (4 L of vital capacity + 1 L of residual volume).

How do you know this? I am very curious. Is there some way to measure capacity?

4 kg of R-134a corresponds to approximately 878 liters of gas at 1 atm & 0 °C. You seem to entirely forget about the difference between compressed and uncompressed gas.

I am sorry, sometimes i make such mistakes. I wasn't aware at all of the difference. I couldn't understand physics and chemistry at school.

1 kg/L/1000 ml of R-134a is about 220 litres then... 500 ml is 110L. 250 ml is 55L.

Is this also true for deodorants? (There is one shop still remaining, I hope they will sell R-134a.) If true, 250 ml deodorant will be about 55L. I understand that one deodorant spray won't contain whole 55L gas, but I am sure if I spray rapidly and deeply, assuming one spray will release 2,5 ml=0.5L of uncompressed gas, I can release something like 10L gas after 20 sprays.

I think, it would be safe to guess that nobody can stand 3 maximal breaths that can be made with 30 L of an asphyxiant gas (assuming that a smaller amount of it can be consumed).

250ml deodorant should contain about 55L gas, assuming I was correct. After 60 sprays, I will have inhaled 30L gas. But I am sure with my presumably 4L lung capacity, inhaling merely 4L uncompressed, released gas will be sufficient. 5ml deodorant spray should contain 1L uncompressed gas, inhaling 20ml deodorant spray will be sufficient.

I can release something like 10L gas after 20 sprays.

If my math is correct, I can release 5L uncompressed gas after merely 10 deep, rapid sprays.

250ml deodorant should contain about 55L gas

Hopefully one 150 ml deodorant will be more than enough (releasing about maximum 25L uncompressed gas), assuming lung capacity is 4L

inhaling 20ml deodorant spray will be sufficient.

I mean, even 20ml deodorant would be sufficient, if my reasoning is correct

 

[Intoxicated]

How do you know this? I am very curious. Is there some way to measure capacity?

The vital capacity can be estimated by measuring the volume of exhaled air after a maximal inhale followed by a maximal exhale. It comprises approximately 4/5 of the full lungs capacity.

I couldn't understand physics and chemistry at school.

That's bad, because school actually gives a lot of knowledge that can be useful for successful CTB.

1 kg/L/1000 ml of R-134a is about 220 litres then...

1 kg of liquid R-134a does not occupy 1000 ml unless you heat it up to 69 °C. The density of liquid R-134a generally differs from the density of water, so assuming that 1 kg corresponds to 1000 ml would be a mistake here.

Is this also true for deodorants?

No, the proportion between mass and volume of a gas at standard or normal conditions depends on its molar mass. The molar masses of deodorants vary depending on their composition and likely differ from the molar mass of R-134a.

The main potential problems you can face with are not related to insufficient amount of gas; they're rather related to your underestimation of the irritating effects of deodorants and the lack of basic understanding of the physics of gases.

 

[curiousbeing]

they're rather related to your underestimation of the irritating effects of deodorants and the lack of basic understanding of the physics of gases.

Thank you for your reply. I agree with everything you wrote.

When it comes to finding R-134a, there is one big local shop that sells car parts. I strongly believe I will find it, but I hope they will sell it as 1kg form. I don't want to buy 13kg cylinder.

That other place I contacted (shop selling air conditioner parts) said "R-22 is dangerous and banned so we don't sell it". They sell what they call safer ones. Probably they sell refrigerants like R-404 or some other refrigerant that works with air conditioners. All refrigerants should work for me. I can visit them and see what they sell, but I won't. They will feel suspicious and ask me questions such as "You don't seem to be an air conditioner gas expert. Why do you need refrigerant?" . I am introvert, so I can end up in awkward situation.

In general, sellers at car parts stores simply directly tell me if they sell it without feeling suspicious why I need it. So, I will visit that car parts shop.

If they won't sell R-134a, is there anything else I can buy for ctb that's not more expensive than $20, not prone to explosion and flammability and widely available? For example, say, I can buy propane but it's highly flammable. My knowledge of gas physics is very bad, but idea of inhaling R-134a was simple enough for me to understand. Is there some other gas, liquid etc. I can buy from car store if R-134a won't be available at all or only as 13kg cylinder for $100? Could you please list 2 or 3 different items I can ask for (item A, item B, item C)? Just in case one of them won't be available, I can ask for another item. I acknowledge, I won't be able to find something as perfect as N2O and R-134a (even R-152 itself is prone to flammability, and less found). You may write their names in Russian too, those sellers are Russian speakers

(R-134a is perfect for me, I will ask for it, because it directly influences Central Nervous System, thus causing euphoria. Gases such as butane don't influence CNS, their euphoria is solely due to asphyxiation they cause. R-134a is also, at least in theory, widely available, compared to N2O and R-152 here)

Thanks so much for your replies. Thanks.

The vital capacity can be estimated by measuring the volume of exhaled air after a maximal inhale followed by a maximal exhale. It comprises approximately 4/5 of the full lungs capacity.

That's bad, because school actually gives a lot of knowledge that can be useful for successful CTB.

1 kg of liquid R-134a does not occupy 1000 ml unless you heat it up to 69 °C. The density of liquid R-134a generally differs from the density of water, so assuming that 1 kg corresponds to 1000 ml would be a mistake here.

No, the proportion between mass and volume of a gas at standard or normal conditions depends on its molar mass. The molar masses of deodorants vary depending on their composition and likely differ from the molar mass of R-134a.

The main potential problems you can face with are not related to insufficient amount of gas; they're rather related to your underestimation of the irritating effects of deodorants and the lack of basic understanding of the physics of gases.

I edited my previous reply a bit to increase its clarity