How much is everything predetermined?

[X-sanguinate86]

I feel like most things that happen in my life are predetermined due to genes and environment but also possibly some other factor that we don't understand. I always noticed how certain people more often than not had things go well for them and others always had things go badly.

With the ones who have things go well they usually have greater physical and mental health which adds to their success but even that could just be because they are always lucky and the universe is always aligned with positive outcomes for them.

I remember when I was young and still went out and did things among the humans, how there were people who always looked better and lived better. They are in their own bubble of fun adventurous successes, peppered with some intellectualism and self-reflection to enhance their relationships. They have no idea how horrible life is for those outside of the bubble let alone those in a bubble of cursed inferiority and failure. They almost go through life unconsciously. They have the illusion of being conscious but are they really? Or are they just enjoying a story that is predetermined of which the feeling of making conscious decisions that matter is part of the enjoyment?

Anyway. It's obvious some people's lives just go better. Most people would agree that ethical behaviour is irrelevant but how many would agree that even effort is irrelevant? Some people put in an effort but we don't know what their experience of "trying" even is. We just know they always have positive outcomes while others who claim to be trying usually don't.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I definitely think that genes, upbringing, environment, opportunities, lived and learned experience all play a part in the decisions we make. I suppose I still think we get the ultimate power to choose, although- we likely have the strong probability to make one choice over another- according to all of the above.

As for a supernatural slant- I'm not so sure. I've tended to use that viewpoint to try to reassure myself. That maybe all those things needed to go wrong in my life to ultimately reveal a better path- or whatever. Some hope that fate was still looking after me.

I've known people feel persecuted by bad luck but then- I suppose I sometimes found their reasoning kind of extreme. Like- they saw it as bad luck they got caught in the rain without their umbrella. It's not like the rain clouds purposely conspired to attack them! And- they were the ones careless enough to leave their umbrella behind when rain was forecast.

I've also been envious of successful people but on closer examination- I had to admit- they put far more effort in trying to achieve what they wanted. It wasn't necessarily that they didn't also encounter hardships and even failure on occassions but- that they kept going besides those things. So- I think there has to be an honesty/ transparency to it. Have they really achieved more through sheer luck or, did they push themselves through more crap to get where they are?

Of course- within that, there will be some who are gifted with enormous advantages and some held back by huge deficits. I don't know how much of that is down to cosmic forces though. Again, it seems more likely there are practical differences. One person having more talent, more confidence, a family with wealth and better connections etc.

Right time and right place can play a part I suppose but then- the person bothered to get themselves in the right time and right place to begin with.

But no- I'm not convinced about predestiny or even that those born into favourable conditions will definitely do well while others won't. Life has millions of paths we can take. Even day to day- there are good, not so good and unhelpful choices we can make. Right from the get go. When we decide to get up. Whether we wash. What we eat, whether we exercise. Whether we work or look for work or, bed rot. Whether we challenge ourselves socially or not. Every single decision helps us to grow or shrink- presumably. Of course, we each have our own stats to contend with. For example, some of us will be crushed by a bad social interaction while others will brush it off. But- we do still have millions of opportunities to push our lives one way or another.

In truth- I think it can be somewhat lazy to blame all our misfortune on being handicapped in some way or, destined to fail. And- I'm saying that from a personal perspective too. I would admit that- while plenty of things 'naturally' held me back in life- I let them- because it was easier, not because it was fated.

 

[X-sanguinate86]

I'm guessing there aren't any decent studies to prove it but I believe some people genuinely have better luck than average and some worse luck than average. So there is something else going on imo. Why is it always certain people who are more likely to slip on the banana peel than others? I've been slipping on the biggest banana peel ever my entire life. I am truly afraid to even try to get up. I know my perception isn't evidence of anything but I have seen people just keep having things go right for them, just sheer good luck, so I believe there is something else in addition to genes & environment.

Some people do persevere more easily under hardship. There are also people who make mistakes but it never seems to bother them, usually because they are tall. I've noticed most tall people don't seem to care when they fail or screw up. They are just so sure of their innate value. So they just keep going. So in those cases they are just lucky to have certain genes. Of course, genes that influence how much motivation and resilience you have in general probably also exist. Free will just never makes much sense.

 

[X-sanguinate86]

I voted mostly: supernatural, genes, environment. I feel like I should have just said 100% predestined but a pathetic part of my wants to believe in the possibility of some agency even though it does not make any sense and never manifests in my lived experience.

 

[tan9284673]

All. 100%

 

[jw_sisyphus97]

None of these options in the poll quite hit the mark for me. Predestination is a myth and genes and environment obviously set the stage but nothing gets you off the hook. That's why I'm stuck with the burden of choice, and everything is on us to decide, and it just gets exhausting.

 

[Seneca65AD]

I'm in the unkown category. 100% pre-determination suggests that our every thought, action, emotion is already set and we have no free will. That is a tough one for me to accept because it means that if we deviate from our path, then the universe actively pushes us back on course. I simply can't see a "Final Destination" type situation where if I jump out of the way of a speeding truck,, a bus comes along and crushes me.

Now, the genes and environment is a red-herring for me. To include them in a predetermination chat suggests there is some entity deciding which spirts inhabit which babies; i.e. This spirt goes to the poor couple of New Delhi and will have cancer at age 10 vs. this spirit goes to the billionaire couple in Germany and will be a perfect specimen. Obviously genes and environment will affect the probability whether the person grows up to be successful, or sick, or poor, or an Olympic athlete, but it is not determinative; otherwise it would be impossible for someone living in abject poverty to be able to be financially successful......ahhh, but then the pre-determination people will then say it was destiny/fate for the person to make it out;....... and there is your circular logic which renders the predeterminaiton - genes/environment connection problematic.

However, I do believe not everything is chaos and randomness. I have personally experienced very weird things when at my lowest and even my highest. For example, I was considering CTB when I didn't get into law school on my first application. Yet, during my active planning phase, I get a call from a law firm which needs a university student to work. Then whenever I am at my lowest with respect to billings and I feel that CTB is the only way to give my family the finanical benefits they deserve, various files will settle which had zero indication of any settlement without a trial. Or I am one of the only people my accountant knows of who was audited and the tax guys found no red-flags with my personal taxes, professional corporation, or holding company - nothing - zero. Sure, I have a good (and very expensive) accountant, but it was a chance meeting at a seminar where I heard about him - A seminar which I only decided to attend at the last minute.

Obviously each of the above can be explained by dumb-luck or confirmation bias, but there has been so many seredipitous happenings in my life that they sure seem to exceed mere chance. But, right now, I am undecided.