Forgiveness

[motel rooms]

What does forgiveness mean? Is it always possible to forgive? People who have the gall to tell victims of abuse that they'll never heal unless they forgive their abusers are psychologically abusive. How the fuck am I supposed to forgive my dead father for molesting me for years when I'm fucking 40 & I just woke up from a nightmare about him raping me when I was 6?

 

[KTbear]

I don't see how that could be forgiven.

 

[Live Free or Die]

Is forgiving him something you want or just something people tell you to do?

 

[motel rooms]

Is forgiving him something you want or just something people tell you to do?

I want to forget, not forgive. Too bad neither of those things are possible.

 

[Live Free or Die]

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sorry that happened to you.

 

[demuic]

I'm not sure what it means the way people use it. It seems to occupy the same space as sayings like "move on."

It seems to be a way to place the burden and the blame on the one who was mistreated rather than the abuser. As if it is a personal defect that they were scarred by whatever happened to them.

People want victims of abuse to be saintly and always the so called "better person" as if you are bad person for having negative feelings towards someone who abused you.

I don't see why someone should have to "forgive."

Just another way our society caters to abusers and enables abuse.

 

[thereisthemist]

Being molested myself at the age of 5 or so by an older cousin, while me coming out as a submissive gay boi.
Yes I have all sorts of fucked up knowledge/thoughts when I think about sexuality and childhood, for me it's no longer a forgiveness negotiable issue. It's the irony of humanity, the insufferable wonder in pain.
Suicide must be one logical way to end all this. Or is it?
Forgive or not, please do remember how strong you are carrying the lengthy journey so far.

 

[avoid_slow_death]

I guess it's different for different people. I forgave my dad for all the horrible things he did to me. Including almost strangling me to death over a sarcastic remark. But that in no way means that that's what everyone should do. Especially in a case like yours @hotelbeneathground I am pretty damn sure I could never forgive such a henious act. Nor should anyone. As for the forgetting part, well, that's just as if not more difficult than forgiveness. Some shit is just so traumatizing that it will haunt you for the rest of your life. How you deal with it is and should be your choice and your choice only. It's such a deep personal thing that you're the only one who can truly know how it affects you. That said, I wish you the best in the road ahead. Again, you deserve something better out of life than what you have experienced so far.

 

[OrcWitch]

Forgiveness should only happen when the survivor naturally reaches that conclusion themselves. And when they do forgive it should only be for their own emotional benefit, not on behalf of the abuser.

To me forgiveness isn't about seeing the good in someone or saying what they did is okay now. It's accepting them as a fucked up being and their crimes as being a consequence of their fucked up mind. It's reframing them as a force of nature rather than as a human being.

It shouldn't ever be given as advice. It's something a victim has to come to on their own terms when the time is right, if ever. It's okay to never forgive.

 

[summers]

What does forgiveness mean? Is it always possible to forgive? People who have the gall to tell victims of abuse that they'll never heal unless they forgive their abusers are psychologically abusive. How the fuck am I supposed to forgive my dead father for molesting me for years when I'm fucking 40 & I just woke up from a nightmare about him raping me when I was 6?

Fuck any assholes who say you should forgive some shit like that. There are some hates I'm going to take to my grave.

 

[little helpers]

isn't "forgiveness" another extention of religious control (if not religious *abuse*)?

I have literally the same nightmares. goes on repeat and repeat and repeat every other night. flashbacks on dope, even. very visually. nothing buys me a true moment of peace.

it'd be more important to forgive yourself. like you said on another thread, to "realize it's not your fault and hate yourself a bit less".

 

[StarryStarry]

I am so sorry to hear what had happened to you. It is one of the unforgivable sins as far as I'm concerned. I hope that you know this wasn't your fault. I know that there are a lot of survivors who were told it was their fault that this happened to them. Well, FUCK them it's not your fault. I hope that you were able to approach your "father" and tell him how you felt before he died. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

I see it as something which firstly requires effort on behalf of the party that did wrong. A person (or entity) should be forgiven on the condition that they change their behaviour, so as to not deliberately hurt anybody again in the future. This is the purpose of forgiveness: to give someone another chance for their own sake and for the sake of others. But what good is this if the offending person continues to behave wrongly? It defeats the point.

If an abuser has the choice to not feel remorse for their past actions then the victim, too, has a choice about whether or not they should let go of any transgressions.

 

[*Psyche*]

I want to forget, not forgive. Too bad neither of those things are possible.

Forgiving won't make you forget & unfortunately forgetting is practically impossible. I'm so sorry for your situation.
Have you tried therapy? It might help you figure out how to cope with the issues that still haunt you.

 

[Snake of Eden]

I can forgive the kid who stole my lolipop when we were 4. Thats most I am capable of

 

[DobryDen]

Wow- forgiveness... thats a tough one... and Ive come to deeply respect how personal it is. In my opinion, no one and I mean no one has any authority or right to to define forgiveness for anyone else! Full stop. For me, Im at a place in life where forgiveness means I want (as much as possible) to stop feeling the anger, pain, and the deep, deep pain from the injustice of it all. Forgiveness for me is completely and entirely for me. It has nothing to do with the other person/situation- it does NOT let them off the hook or grant any level of acceptance of what happened or what they did. Its about me doing what I can to let go of pain. It is difficult to describe because I do not think forgiveness is a "one and done" thing-- I can be triggered, people can resurface, etc... forgiveness is an on-going process I keep having to repeat. And again- it has nothing to do with the other person. I don't need to have them in my life or to say anything to them. Its not about being a "good person." Its only about freeing myself from some pain if I can. Somewhere in my mix of forgiveness is letting go of the need for justice, for fairness. There is no fairness and no justice. I can at least work on letting go of the pain of that part.

And to be honest, I do not forgive a lot- at least in the traditional definition of "forgive." I think sometimes its important to not forgive for me- I can not forgive and still work on letting go of the anger around what happened. If that makes sense.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Forgiveness is so overrated and unrealistic. Sure it is easy to pretend to have forgiven someone. (Christians took it a little bit too far imo) Thats why I personally believe in god of equilibrium. The one that restores balance to deeds so they are equal to zero again.

 

[Snake of Eden]

What @Persephone ❦ says sums up what I feel about the subject %100. It is one thing to be involved with people who wronged you for reasons you could somehow justify like due to their being provoked or their own personal limitations like being too young, ignorant or short tempered to realize the consequences of their actions. But when there is no excuse to the wrongdoing towards you other than some evil, psychopathic and sadistic enjoyment by abusing the victim, what does forgiveness even look like? We are not saints, we are just humans and we seek justice for ourselves innately. Thats not to say it is impossible to forgive even these types of unjustified wrongdoings against us but it really depends on the person and even then the consequences of those deed remain and cant be undone.

 

[D&D]

"Everyone thinks forgiveness is a lovely idea until they have something to forgive." (C.S.Lewis)

 

[Pluto]

I had a nightmare about my father recently too. I always had a desire to move on because it seems so unfair that my life would be all about him, just as his life was (pathologically) all about himself. The fact that sadists 'get off' on knowing that we are still suffering can lead to a vicious circle of trying ever harder to escape the curse, only to fail as the noose tightens even more. Serious trauma is generally something life-long, like an extreme injury. I think the best that can be done is try and coexist with it as gracefully as possible.

 

[Kalebri]

Forgiveness depends on the circumstances of the moment and your feelings. I've already forgiven many people in my past, but some of them i regret it because they didn't deserve it.

To explain in another words, forgiveness is a romantic act in a dying world, which means it's completely worthless nowadays for both sides.

 

[Ashu]

To me forgiveness isn't about seeing the good in someone or saying what they did is okay now. It's accepting them as a fucked up being and their crimes as being a consequence of their fucked up mind. It's reframing them as a force of nature rather than as a human being.

Yes, exactly, this is the true meaning of karma, which rightly understood shows us that freedom, choice, and responsibility are illusions, an insight that totally transforms our experience of other people and our human life for the better.

I can forgive the kid who stole my lolipop when we were 4. Thats most I am capable of

Isn't the principle the same, whatever the act?

 

[VoidDesirer22]

I want to forget, not forgive. Too bad neither of those things are possible.

Some things can only be forgotten in death. So technically it is "possible".

(Don't view this as ctb encouragement. I want you to continue to forget as much as possible. It does not define you.)

Even though I wasn't abused myself, that scene in Good Will Hunting where he repeats "it wasn't your fault" makes me cry every time I watch it.

 

[TooConscious]

You've been through horrors of the worst. I hoe you know your strength. I will call it humanity if they change the definition to evil sadists. Many people these days are pretending to have been abused to get sympathy, they are often as bad as the perpetrator those who are even un-caring they tarnish their good parents name. But the loving parents tend to forgive them. I know women who are with a guy who gang raped them with his friends. And the woman will lock good men and defend her 'man' who uses and abuses her. Laughs behind her back.

So forgiveness must exist in some sense. People are just foolish.
I don't believe in forgiveness.
"People just have short memories."

 

[motel rooms]

Forgiveness for me is completely and entirely for me. It has nothing to do with the other person/situation- it does NOT let them off the hook or grant any level of acceptance of what happened or what they did. Its about me doing what I can to let go of pain. It is difficult to describe because I do not think forgiveness is a "one and done" thing-- I can be triggered, people can resurface, etc... forgiveness is an on-going process I keep having to repeat. And again- it has nothing to do with the other person. I don't need to have them in my life or to say anything to them. Its not about being a "good person." Its only about freeing myself from some pain if I can. Somewhere in my mix of forgiveness is letting go of the need for justice, for fairness. There is no fairness and no justice. I can at least work on letting go of the pain of that part.

And to be honest, I do not forgive a lot- at least in the traditional definition of "forgive." I think sometimes its important to not forgive for me- I can not forgive and still work on letting go of the anger around what happened. If that makes sense.

I do not feel that others have any business telling me I must "let go" of it.

Letting go... I can't separate myself from my pain. I am my brain & my unfortunate brain is afflicted with C-PTSD & sexually compulsive. It's not within my power to separate myself from myself, my brain from my damn brain. I don't know how to let go of myself without blowing my brains out.

 

[motel rooms]

To me forgiveness isn't about seeing the good in someone or saying what they did is okay now. It's accepting them as a fucked up being and their crimes as being a consequence of their fucked up mind. It's reframing them as a force of nature rather than as a human being.

Looks good on paper, but I highly doubt a significant number of people are able to do it. My brain definitely can't see my pedophile father as a hurricane or a flood.

 

[motel rooms]

I know that there are a lot of survivors who were told it was their fault that this happened to them. Well, FUCK them it's not your fault. I hope that you were able to approach your "father" and tell him how you felt before he died.

I was able to show him how I felt by beating him up & spitting in his face in my 20s.

 

[Zzzzz]

I'm so sorry. I wish I had a solution for you. In some cases it might be impossible to forgive, or at least almost impossible. Its cruel of people to say that about forgiveness, as if to blame the victim because they haven't recovered from a traumatic experience.