Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[sm1the]

I guess the part that goes over the nose/mouth is more like a respirator.
From the photos that part looks like it is more than just a hose to a face/mouth covering.
So I assume these EEBD hood are a constant flow into the hood ?

Is the one u are referring to,a hard full face or head model?

Most EEBD are constant flow .

I found SCOTT had various EEBD models when searching for one to get.
I purposely got EEBD rather than SCBA because I wasnt sure that low force unconscious breathing would engage valve on LDV of SCBA.
(This is just my observations, I'm not sure if its correct since ppl here have used SCBA).
Positive pressure environment would be easier to breathe I think.(again,just my thoughts).
Scott makes 'Rescue hoods' as well ,which looks similar to EEBD but differ in mechanical make-up ,max flow rate etc.
Buying any of these 2nd hand are a lot cheaper ,however u will most likely receive 1 thats-
Over 10 years old(EEBD replacement period for Industry etc) .
Stiff neck seal,elastic due to age,Storage.
Exhaust valve may stick open if correct lubrication wasn't applied to spring during servicing.

I purchased used ELSA initially but then purchased brand new.

 

[devils~advocate]

It does make sense that it is constant flow, since the hood is not sealed like a mask would be.

They do appear to make an ELSA type that does use a demand valve. This is interesting.
Muster escape set

 

[PainWorseThanDeath]

Going back over all my old posts to say fuck all this.

I don't want to die, let alone with a plastic bag over my head.

The exit bag megathread cant be trusted anyway.

No way to accurately know what lpm we would get out of the regulator.

No way to know if the regulator would freeze up in process.

Contradicting info in the comments that could lead to failure, and suffering.

Its not worth it. Even if I wanted to die still, theres NO WAY im risking becoming a vegetable, or passing out and then dying suffocating ON the plastic bag because I didnt get the gas flow right.

Fuuuuuuuck that!

Nah, y'all... I'm gonna kick this bullshit court cases ass.

And if I do go to jail for some shit I didnt do, I am NOT gonna get punked. If a mfer in there wants to try and beat up on or rape me... they're gonna have to fight me to the death.

The days of beating up on, and making a victim of this faggot right here over with. I'm not going to be a victim of shit anymore. I'm fighting back, you hear me? Laying down and dying is what the world wants out of trans women. I'm not going along with the fucking plan.

I almost let this bullshit take my life from me. Almost let it take me from everybody that loves me. Nobody's putting hands on me again. I looked my own death in the eye. I ain't scared of shit, now. I'm nobody's victim, including myself.

 

[sm1the]

It does make sense that it is constant flow, since the hood is not sealed like a mask would be.

They do appear to make an ELSA type that does use a demand valve. This is interesting.
Muster escape set

Top 3 are all Scott I think.
First one is mine.
Other 2 below LDV.(2,3)

When u spoke of LDV initially ,its the Draeger (5th on list) I was referring to with hard full helmet.
Scott makes a similar one(on list).

I almost bought this 2nd hand for couple hundred $ but decided against it.
I figured an EEBD is simpler,less moving parts(less risk),positive pressure simply works without worrying too much about nose/mouth seal etc.

 

[devils~advocate]

Top 3 are all Scott I think.
First one is mine.
Other 2 below LDV.(2,3)

When u spoke of LDV initially ,its the Draeger (5th on list) I was referring to with hard full helmet.
Scott makes a similar one(on list).

I almost bought this 2nd hand for couple hundred $ but decided against it.
I figured an EEBD is simpler,less moving parts(less risk),positive pressure simply works without worrying too much about nose/mouth seal etc.

Are you referring to a specific website link to a list?
The products that I saw were on a Safety products website, that I guess can be rented. I think its a UK website.

 

[sm1the]

Are you referring to a specific website link to a list?
The products that I saw were on a Safety products website, that I guess can be rented. I think its a UK website.

I forgot to mention that part! Lol.
Duckduckgo -Muster escape set.
Its the 1st link

 

[devils~advocate]

I forgot to mention that part! Lol.
Duckduckgo -Muster escape set.
Its the 1st link

Yes that is the same link I was looking at. Seems these are only available in UK

 

[Missyabuddy]

I've read online that this method isn't actually painless, I read that they've witnessed prisoners in the US get executed through it, and they'd scream in pain or something? is this true? I assume you guys have already read this too, has it been proven/disproven?

 

[Blockz]

A higher density of a gas/fluid implies a higher drag force if other conditions are equal.

Drag Force

My notes on math, computer science, philosophy, personal projects, and more.

ozaner.github.io

Since nitrogen has a significantly lower density than argon, it will create a smaller drag force when moving through an obstacle than argon would do as long as other conditions for both gases are nearly the same. A smaller gas velocity implies a smaller drag force too, so any decrease in the drag force inside a flow meter can be interpreted by the device as decrease in flow rate.

Depends on how much gas you have and whether a higher flow rate can produce inconveniences.

I can't read the units due to low image quality. If the outer scale on the left gauge is L/min, then this device should be suitable.

I was sure the that if 15lpm is desired then on the argon regulator it would read a higher reading as it's optimised for argon/co2 as the dial reads not for nitrogen even tho the flow of gas is nitrogen.

As argon is the reference gas but then that means nitrogen would read differently so on the dial would be higher than 15 coz argon's denser and if the conversion rate is 1.4 you would do 15lpm x 1.4 and you get 21 but it will still be 15lpm just the reading will be 21 on the dial of the regulator no?

 

[Intoxicated]

I was sure the that if 15lpm is desired then on the argon regulator it would read a higher reading as it's optimised for argon/co2 as the dial reads not for nitrogen even tho the flow of gas is nitrogen.

As argon is the reference gas but then that means nitrogen would read differently so on the dial would be higher than 15 coz argon's denser and if the conversion rate is 1.4 you would do 15lpm x 1.4 and you get 21 but it will still be 15lpm just the reading will be 21 on the dial of the regulator no?

It's likely that many flow meters estimate the flow rate based on the aerodynamic force created by the flow of gas, since the force is easy to measure directly, unlike the velocity or volume per time. The flow rate (let's designate it as X) is proportional to the speed of the gas v and the flow cross-section S:

X = v * S

The formula for the aerodynamic force is

F = ρ * C * A * v² / 2

So if F is known, we can calculate the velocity v as

v = √(2 * F / (ρ * C * A))

and then the flow rate as

X = S * √(2 * F / (ρ * C * A))

Since S, C, A are nearly constant within the same measuring device, it's possible to calibrate the device for a particular gas density ρ, so it will correctly indicate X without knowing the precise values of S, C, A. Even ρ is not needed to be known if by convention the flow meter is supposed to be used only for a particular type of gas.

If we change the gas density ρ to some new density ρ' while preserving the same gas flow rate and other parameters, then new aerodynamic force F' in the flow meter will be

F' = ρ' * C * A * v² / 2
F' = (ρ' / ρ) * ρ * C * A * v² / 2

The flow meter will try to estimate the gas velocity assuming that ρ, C, and A were not changed, so it will produce erroneous velocity v' as

v' = √(2 * F' / (ρ * C * A))

After substitution of F' from above we get

v' = √(2 * ((ρ' / ρ) * ρ * C * A * v² / 2) / (ρ * C * A))
v' = v * √(ρ' / ρ)

where v is the actual gas velocity.

The indicated (erroneous) flow rate X' will be

X' = v' * S = v * √(ρ' / ρ) * S = (X / S) * √(ρ' / ρ) * S = X * √(ρ' / ρ)

So we get:

X' = X * √(ρ' / ρ)

where

X is the real flow rate,
X' is the indicated flow rate,
ρ is the density of the gas for which the flow meter is calibrated,
ρ' is the actual density of the gas passed through the flow meter.

This formula matches the calculations mentioned in the thread linked above.

 

[Intoxicated]

By the way, I can remind that in case of having doubts it's possible to measure the gas flow rate using the water displacement method and clock. This approach can be used for verifying the estimated flow rate based on the gauge readings.

Spoiler: Gas collection using water displacement method

The idea is put a hose/tubing in a flipped large bottle (like 5 L or more) filled with water like on the video above and then measure the time needed to displace all water there by steady flow of the gas coming through the hose/tubing. The volume of the bottle divided by the time passed will be equal to the real gas flow rate. In order to reduce the effects associated with water resistance, it's better to put the end of the hose as close to the top as possible so that the gas would mostly come from the hose/tubing without forming bubbles going through water.

 

[outrider567]

I've read online that this method isn't actually painless, I read that they've witnessed prisoners in the US get executed through it, and they'd scream in pain or something? is this true? I assume you guys have already read this too, has it been proven/disproven?

Totally wrong and disproven, condemned prisoners hold their breath and fight it, unlike us, who embrace it, and can take long deep relaxing breaths--After about 10 breaths, we slip into peaceful unconsciousness--Breathing in 99% Nitrogen feels EXACTLY the same as breathing in air, zero difference, and I ought to know, I've already done it 5 times(stopped after 6 breaths each time after seeing pulse oximeter drop to 77, My Oxygen then proceeded to drop to 40), there is no more peaceful death than Nitrogen with EEBD Hood--The human body has an inherent flaw, it doesn't recognize that breathing in 99% to 100% Nitrogen is lethal to the human body--The only thing you'll notice is that heartbeat jumps quickly because it gets irritated when Oxygen is rapidly reduced

 

[devils~advocate]

Totally wrong and disproven, condemned prisoners hold their breath and fight it, unlike us, who embrace it, and can take long deep relaxing breaths--After about 10 breaths, we slip into peaceful unconsciousness--Breathing in 99% Nitrogen feels EXACTLY the same as breathing in air, zero difference, and I ought to know, I've already done it 5 times(stopped after 6 breaths each time after seeing pulse oximeter drop to 77, My Oxygen then proceeded to drop to 40), there is no more peaceful death than Nitrogen with EEBD Hood--The human body has an inherent flaw, it doesn't recognize that breathing in 99% to 100% Nitrogen is lethal to the human body--The only thing you'll notice is that heartbeat jumps quickly because it gets irritated when Oxygen is rapidly reduced

Yes and there are many documented cases of accidents in industrial manufacturing, where workers were caught off guard and succumbed to hypoxia. On the flip side, there is a documentary video that shows a pig that goes unconscious from a eating at enclosed trough filled with gas.....only to awaken again and go back to feeding at the same trough.

 

[sm1the]

Thi

By the way, I can remind that in case of having doubts it's possible to measure the gas flow rate using the water displacement method and clock. This approach can be used for verifying the estimated flow rate based on the gauge readings.

Spoiler: Gas collection using water displacement method

The idea is put a hose/tubing in a flipped large bottle (like 5 L or more) filled with water like on the video above and then measure the time needed to displace all water there by steady flow of the gas coming through the hose/tubing. The volume of the bottle divided by the time passed will be equal to the real gas flow rate. In order to reduce the effects associated with water resistance, it's better to put the end of the hose as close to the top as possible so that the gas would mostly come from the hose/tubing without forming bubbles going through water.

This is good for experimentation .However not something I would trust with my life.
For critical purposes,a calibrated flowmeter is what I would use.

You can get N2 flow indicators I think to confirm flow.
These are just for confirming flow rate ,they do not get installed anywhere .

Looks like they're about $200

What SPO2 are u using atm?

Can I also ask-
Did u mouth breath when testing?
I'm trying to figure out if you are meant to mouth breathe till LOC(then u automatically switch to nose I think) with an EEBD with exhaust valve?(ELSA)