Help Excess Rope on the Noose end - Cut ? Wrap ? (or leave it ??) (when using a running bowline anchor knot & unreachable branch) (full-suspension hanging)

[rainw3rld4ngel]

I was considering using the Running Bowline as an anchor knot, as the ability to tie it to even tall, unreachable branches meant it therefore might be easier to find a suitable tree.
(you can throw the rope over a branch, tie it from the ground, & then tighten the knot up to the branch)
(I saw it recommended here):
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/trees-to-use-for-hanging-from-a-tree-expert.76256/

However, tightening the knot up to the branch seems it would, in turn, leave a pile of rope on the floor at the end ur supposed to make the noose with.

1.)
One solution is to cut the rope, however i assumed cutting 12mm double-braided polyester dockline might require some additional equipment & technique to avoid fraying (especially important at the noose end).
somewhere on here i heard about using a knife, tape & lighter for this, but thought this might be easier to avoid unless necessary, being inexperienced.

2.)
The excess could possibly be thrown & wrapped around the branch repeatedly.
(i dont know if lots of wrappings might also put additional pressure on the branch)
(and depending on the branch thickness, this may not be a precise adjustment for the noose height, but i guess u can retie it & a small amount of excess / a 'tail' on the noose isn't too much of an issue ?..)

3.)
...well it's also possible to just make a noose knot at any point along a rope, i just assumed excess on the noose end might be undesirable... (i cant really picture if this would just be an annoyance or a real problem).

any advice ?

perhaps i wouldn't have this problem if i used a different anchor knot, but the running bowline did seem like it could make things easier at first

 

[rembleeds]

Very interesting question. I have limited experience with full hanging (just setup) so grain of salt.

Cutting the rope is possible, you can even do something as simple as tying a knot at the end to prevent fraying/separation. Just be sure to always have a little leeway. You can cut it off, but you can't reattach it yk?

You can wrap excess around the branch, it will only change weight distribution. If you do, be sure that you have the weight centered on a spot that wont cause the branch to snap. Shouldn't be a worry if youre choosing a girthy branch, which is highly recommended.

Excess coming off the noose shouldn't be an issue, so long as you use a knot that the excess won't mess with. Though I'm no knot expert so I can't advise which ones to use.

 

[Forveleth]

I had a ton of excess rope when I tried partial and I just let it hang off the slipknot. Basically, like you said, I tied the slipknot about halfway through the rope. I did not want to cut my rope just in case I need to find somewhere else to hang.

 

[AreWeWinning]

I was considering using the Running Bowline as an anchor knot, as the ability to tie it to even tall, unreachable branches meant it therefore might be easier to find a suitable tree.
(you can throw the rope over a branch, tie it from the ground, & then tighten the knot up to the branch)

You can use a tree's trunk too. If you make loops around the tree, it won't slide. Arborists use this to hold very heavy logs after they're cut off from the tree. Some examples (videos open at the relevant parts):

BIG RIGGING!
How to rig sections of trunk onto itself | Arborist Rigging techniques

You don't necessarily need to use a Running Bowline. You can use an Anchor Bend or a Round Turn & Two Half Hitches too. (Whichever is fine, but adding an extra half hitch at the end is a good idea.)

My problem with using an unreachable branch is that it's difficult to practice and test the setup, because you can't get the rope down once it's up there. So, I prefer the trunk or a reachable branch.

1.)
One solution is to cut the rope, however i assumed cutting 12mm double-braided polyester dockline might require some additional equipment & technique to avoid fraying (especially important at the noose end).
somewhere on here i heard about using a knife, tape & lighter for this, but thought this might be easier to avoid unless necessary, being inexperienced.

Cutting the rope is easy. No special equipment needed. Just cut it with scissors or a knife, and burn the end with a lighter. It won't necessarily be pretty after burning it, but it's very simple to do, and it works. You can wrap it with tape too, just below the cut before cutting it. That's easy too, and the result will look nicer.

2.)
The excess could possibly be thrown & wrapped around the branch repeatedly.
(i dont know if lots of wrappings might also put additional pressure on the branch)
(and depending on the branch thickness, this may not be a precise adjustment for the noose height, but i guess u can retie it & a small amount of excess / a 'tail' on the noose isn't too much of an issue ?..)

It's not exactly clear to me what you mean here. If you use a Noose Knot (or any sliding noose), and you wrap the working end of the rope (the one that is not supposed to be load-bearing) around the branch too, then it won't be a sliding noose anymore, and it won't tighten under load. This is not ideal, and shouldn't be done in my opinion.

3.)
...well it's also possible to just make a noose knot at any point along a rope, i just assumed excess on the noose end might be undesirable... (i cant really picture if this would just be an annoyance or a real problem).

I think this is how it should be done. In my opinion, the excess is just an annoyance, and can be left dangling. Or it can be cut off. If it's cut off, it doesn't have to be cut extra short. Just short enough so that it's not a huge annoyance. If it's not longer than 1-2 meters, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If it's longer, then it would have to be cut off anyway, because it'd be really cumbersome to tie the Noose Knot with an excessively long rope. (Btw, don't forget to add a stopper knot on the working end, above the Noose Knot.)

perhaps i wouldn't have this problem if i used a different anchor knot, but the running bowline did seem like it could make things easier at first

I haven't looked into it in great detail as I prefer either using a branch that I can reach or the trunk, but as far as I know, a Running Bowline is the simplest and one of the best options. There might be other options, but they won't be simpler or significantly better, and I don't think there is a solution that eliminates the excess rope problem.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

If you wrap the rope a number of times around a branche you don't even need a knot to fix it. Like the cowboys fix their horses in front of the saloon in movies. This effect makes belt drives and lifts work and it is quantified by the capstan equation. By the way, all types of knots use this effect to function.

You can also threw the noose over a branche and fix the other end at the trunk or another branche. You have to take care, that the rope does not slip along the branche.

 

[AreWeWinning]

You can also threw the noose over a branche and fix the other end at the trunk or another branche.

This is actually a very good idea, and I hadn't thought about this. Doing it this way makes it possible to take down the rope too unless it gets wedged somewhere.

 

[rainw3rld4ngel]

My problem with using an unreachable branch is that it's difficult to practice and test the setup, because you can't get the rope down once it's up there. So, I prefer the trunk or a reachable branch.

ive tested it with a tree
u can make a running bowline at any point along a rope, leaving the bowline with a long 'tail' that dangles from the branch.
pulling this end brings the knot down from the branch, so the rope is retrievable.
(in use, ur bodyweight pulls down the other end, so if u grabbed this end, all that would do is pull harder on ur neck)
Tying it this way just involves leaving the excess in a pile while u grab the end out of that pile, tie the knot like normal, and then tighten each part of the bowline by pulling the entire slack through, it sounds annoying but it works.
doing it this way also solves some of the excess rope concern by putting more of it on the anchor side instead of the noose side (but the noose side will still always be too long, since you need to reach it in the first place to tie the bowline & then pull it down further to tighten it. which may not even be a problem, but if so, i can wrap or cut it).

It's not exactly clear to me what you mean here. If you use a Noose Knot (or any sliding noose), and you wrap the working end of the rope (the one that is not supposed to be load-bearing) around the branch too, then it won't be a sliding noose anymore,

(no i meant throwing the entire rope over the branch a few more times)





i think the rope & knot questions are basically sorted, i may just be left with the stupider problem of transporting a chair/stool/ladder to a suitable location (without driving) (and without conspicuously walking out the door with something from home). its a bit stupid here since the bush areas are usually in the hills, so flat ground + good trees + isolated might take hours of walking (or cutting corners..)
when scouting around, there were lots of steep routes, some that were like populated + i would look crazy carrying something, or some that i literally needed my hands free to pretty much climb, or perhaps some slightly unsafe shortcuts.
some of that it might have been possible to walk with a stool the long way around, but either way it's gonna look incredibly stupid, at best.
i already had one bad idea:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...for-full-suspension-hanging-questions.203772/

there was also an attic beam i had doubts about:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...te-whether-something-is-sturdy-enough.204381/

i even considered a pylon:
https://files.catbox.moe/kd4fsi.jpg
i assumed it wouldn't zap anyone unless they went up too high, but it was shorter than what most risky urbex climbers online seemed to be referring to, i felt a tingle from the ground, was just not knowledgeable & moved on instead. it may have also had beams one could grab onto to save urself- i could prepare and bring cable ties for my wrists, but i just don't know overall.

so there may be possibilities, but i would want to reduce doubt or additional complicating variables.
i could have done it sooner & not looked at the calendar, but maybe i should delay past a few specific things for others' sake
the stool question seems always stupidly inconvenient, but i guess physically possible.
if the rest is mostly solved, i can stop thinking about method for a bit and try to put my mind somewhere else.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

ive tested it with a tree
u can make a running bowline at any point along a rope, leaving the bowline with a long 'tail' that dangles from the branch.
pulling this end brings the knot down from the branch, so the rope is retrievable.
(in use, ur bodyweight pulls down the other end, so if u grabbed this end, all that would do is pull harder on ur neck)
Tying it this way just involves leaving the excess in a pile while u grab the end out of that pile, tie the knot like normal, and then tighten each part of the bowline by pulling the entire slack through, it sounds annoying but it works.
doing it this way also solves some of the excess rope concern by putting more of it on the anchor side instead of the noose side (but the noose side will still always be too long, since you need to reach it in the first place to tie the bowline & then pull it down further to tighten it. which may not even be a problem, but if so, i can wrap or cut it).


(no i meant throwing the entire rope over the branch a few more times)





i think the rope & knot questions are basically sorted, i may just be left with the stupider problem of transporting a chair/stool/ladder to a suitable location (without driving) (and without conspicuously walking out the door with something from home). its a bit stupid here since the bush areas are usually in the hills, so flat ground + good trees + isolated might take hours of walking (or cutting corners..)
when scouting around, there were lots of steep routes, some that were like populated + i would look crazy carrying something, or some that i literally needed my hands free to pretty much climb, or perhaps some slightly unsafe shortcuts.
some of that it might have been possible to walk with a stool the long way around, but either way it's gonna look incredibly stupid, at best.
i already had one bad idea:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...for-full-suspension-hanging-questions.203772/

there was also an attic beam i had doubts about:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...te-whether-something-is-sturdy-enough.204381/

i even considered a pylon:
https://files.catbox.moe/kd4fsi.jpg
i assumed it wouldn't zap anyone unless they went up too high, but it was shorter than what most risky urbex climbers online seemed to be referring to, i felt a tingle from the ground, was just not knowledgeable & moved on instead. it may have also had beams one could grab onto to save urself- i could prepare and bring cable ties for my wrists, but i just don't know overall.

so there may be possibilities, but i would want to reduce doubt or additional complicating variables.
i could have done it sooner & not looked at the calendar, but maybe i should delay past a few specific things for others' sake
the stool question seems always stupidly inconvenient, but i guess physically possible.
if the rest is mostly solved, i can stop thinking about method for a bit and try to put my mind somewhere else.

You can carry a rope and a small foulding ladder in a big backpack. You can also use a bicycle for transportation.

 

[AreWeWinning]

u can make a running bowline at any point along a rope, leaving the bowline with a long 'tail' that dangles from the branch.
pulling this end brings the knot down from the branch, so the rope is retrievable.

I haven't thought about this. This is a very good idea too, and it works. The long rope is an inconvenience when tying the knots, yes, but using an unreachable branch is cumbersome anyway.

(no i meant throwing the entire rope over the branch a few more times)

Oh, I see. In that case, to answer your original question, it doesn't put excess strain on the branch. The only strain is the downward force, and the only concern is the position of the weight-bearing part of the rope.

i think the rope & knot questions are basically sorted, i may just be left with the stupider problem of transporting a chair/stool/ladder to a suitable location (without driving) (and without conspicuously walking out the door with something from home). its a bit stupid here since the bush areas are usually in the hills, so flat ground + good trees + isolated might take hours of walking (or cutting corners..)
when scouting around, there were lots of steep routes, some that were like populated + i would look crazy carrying something, or some that i literally needed my hands free to pretty much climb, or perhaps some slightly unsafe shortcuts.
some of that it might have been possible to walk with a stool the long way around, but either way it's gonna look incredibly stupid, at best.

I know what you mean, and I had the same problems. But not really, because of the following reasons. First, I'll do it at night. No one is around at that time. Second, people care less than you might think. We're paranoid because of the nature of what we're doing, but people don't give a fuck. If someone sees you, at worst, they'll be like "oh, that's weird", and they'll forget about it in about 2 minutes. And you could be doing anything... Bird watching, studying moss species on trees, or whatever.

The problem with climbing, carrying, and having your hands free, that depends on the area. It can be a problem. I have a 4-legged plastic stool, about 40-50 cm high. It's light and stable. But a small foldable ladder is an option too.

there was also an attic beam i had doubts about:
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...te-whether-something-is-sturdy-enough.204381/

That attic beam looks strong as fuck. There's no way that's gonna break, regardless of how you use it.

i even considered a pylon:
https://files.catbox.moe/kd4fsi.jpg
i assumed it wouldn't zap anyone unless they went up too high, but it was shorter than what most risky urbex climbers online seemed to be referring to, i felt a tingle from the ground, was just not knowledgeable & moved on instead. it may have also had beams one could grab onto to save urself- i could prepare and bring cable ties for my wrists, but i just don't know overall.

You might feel tingling, but it will not zap you, and it's not dangerous. It looks like it is, but it isn't. You'd need to climb up really high, there would have to be very heavy rain and everything would have to be really wet, and even then it's highly unlikely you'd be in any danger. The wires that carry current are isolated from the pylon. The insulation is designed in a way that it performs well in rain and wet conditions too. (Basically, little umbrellas stacked on top of each other, so part of it always remains dry. You can even see it on the image if you zoom in.)

The concerns about escaping are valid, and I'd have the same concerns. There are similar concerns with using tree trunks. And true, zip tying the hands is an option.

if the rest is mostly solved, i can stop thinking about method for a bit and try to put my mind somewhere else.

I know what you mean. It feels good to have everything planned.