“Dr therapist” here - what do you need your therapist to say?

[KayKay]

So - I am a mental health professional (x2PhD psychology zzzzzz) who works in this area - DrDr I am :)

I am also a complex trauma survivor (CSA, rape victim, emotional and physical abuse victim , gaslighting etc etc the whole shebang) and I have struggled with suicidality and CTB urges since I was 8. And I've a had LOT of (good) therapy. I have also had a lot of unsuccessful
CTB attemptS

I know I'm a really good therapist - my clients for 20years have told me so. And so have their actions - they somehow go on to live and find peace and meaning and joy - the meaning and joy I can't somehow find.

In 20years only one of my clients CTB.

I struggle to keep going. I do so for
1. My gorgeous kids
2. My patients

I walk the walk. Feel like dying? I get it. Hang in There

I Suppose i have two questions
- one personal
- One professional

1. What can your Therapist say or do to help you?
2. Does anyone have any words of wisdom For me as the therapist? To keep
Me Ya hanging in there?

 

[motel rooms]

Hi! Can I ask you a question? Do you think you're still alive because you've received a lot of good therapy or because of your kids & patients?

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

1. What can your Therapist say or do to help you?

Nothing.

2. Does anyone have any words of wisdom For me as the therapist? To keep
Me Ya hanging in there?

Since you're a good therapist I don't see how you need any advice related to your specific work. I suppose keeping those things you listed that keep you alive in the front of your mind would be good. Otherwise it's just all the classic stuff we hear about all of the time (exercise, meditation, call someone, get help, etc, etc).

 

[Lupgevif]

1. What can your Therapist say or do to help you?

If I knew it already I wouldn't need anybody to say it to me.

 

[KayKay]

Hi! Can I ask you a question? Do you think you're still alive because you've received a lot of good therapy or because of your kids & patients?

Both! For Definite %100
Wouldn't be here without one
Or The other. That makes
Me a terribly unethical therapist and horrific mother I'm sure. But im
Doing the best I can

If I knew it already I wouldn't need anybody to say it to me.

Excellent point. Is it ok so, for therapists
To share what they know helps?

 

[Harriet]

I feel like I'm too deep in my bpd/ bipolar mindset to know what my psychologist could say to help me. She's amazing and I love her and typically for me encountering anyone in an emotionally intense situation I feel an increasingly strong attraction to her which I know will become obsession. So anything I want to say to me right now would be NSFW. I realise that doesn't really answer your question.
For you as the therapist maybe I'd say to you that it sounds like you're saving lives carrying on as you are, remaining alive. But that all boils down to an ethical question of whether you'd give up your choice of peace/ happiness/ ctb, for the sake of saving others lives..
Can I ask you though. Do you want to ctb due to the trauma you've been through? Or from a wider perspective due to how you see the world? I guess what I mean is do you believe what you preach to patients? Do you believe they have good reason to want to recover and carry on living? Or do you ever secretly think you understand why they don't want to stay alive? X

 

[motel rooms]

Both! For Definite %100
Wouldn't be here without one
Or The other. That makes
Me a terribly unethical therapist and horrific mother I'm sure. But im
Doing the best I can

I don't see how that makes you either of those things.

I know I'm a really good therapist - my clients for 20years have told me so. And so have their actions - they somehow go on to live and find peace and meaning and joy - the meaning and joy I can't somehow find.

Exactly what has therapy given you if you still haven't found meaning & joy? Did your therapists basically just keep telling you to hang in there & reminding you that you have gorgeous kids? I've been telling myself not to give up despite all the hardships & reminding myself that there are things I still enjoy all my life, it's just plain old common sense.

 

[rationaltake]

One thing I do believe. The therapist doesn't need to be fixed in order to help others fix themselves. I had some low level training in counselling and find I have a talent for counselling others. But I don't want therapy myself. I had three years of specialist psychotherapy.

 

[dyingalone123]

One thing I do believe. The therapist doesn't need to be fixed in order to help others fix themselves. I had some low level training in counselling and find I have a talent for counselling others. But I don't want therapy myself. I had three years of specialist psychotherapy.

Since you and @KayKay are mental health specialists - do you think we owe it to ourselves to at least try to get better mental health wise instead of Ctb right away? I've had severe depression and anxiety in the last 6 months - I'm doing better one meds but part of me just wants to Ctb because of the unknown future. I don't know how what to do. I'm so scared of dying and survivial instincts kicking in yet living with anxiety or the unknown is equally as scary.

Sorry I know I'm asking for advice. Kinda desperate. I probably should make a separate thread for this
It's a question I can't ask my therapist or psychologist because I'll be thrown into a ward

 

[KayKay]

I don't see how that makes you either of those things.



Exactly what has therapy given you if you still haven't found meaning & joy? Did your therapists basically just keep telling you to hang in there & reminding you that you have gorgeous kids?

Both I suppose. As these things go!

I have amazing kids. How they are as "normal" (wtf that means) as they are - with a crazy ass mother - ill
Never know.

I hope it's because they I know they are loved and perfect as they are. And any craziness or wrong doing is on me. Which I think they do - when I mess Up and shout At them (Which is very rare)-I always apologises and own my mistake.

And my therapist have also been amazing my -'challenging , supportive, I've like them.

And I have found joy and peace in life at times. It just never lasts

 

[dyingalone123]

And when I say we = I mean me

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

So - I am a mental health professional (x2PhD psychology zzzzzz) who works in this area - DrDr I am :)

I am also a complex trauma survivor (CSA, rape victim, emotional and physical abuse victim , gaslighting etc etc the whole shebang) and I have struggled with suicidality and CTB urges since I was 8. And I've a had LOT of (good) therapy. I have also had a lot of unsuccessful
CTB attemptS

I know I'm a really good therapist - my clients for 20years have told me so. And so have their actions - they somehow go on to live and find peace and meaning and joy - the meaning and joy I can't somehow find.

In 20years only one of my clients CTB.

I struggle to keep going. I do so for
1. My gorgeous kids
2. My patients

I walk the walk. Feel like dying? I get it. Hang in There

I Suppose i have two questions
- one personal
- One professional

1. What can your Therapist say or do to help you?
2. Does anyone have any words of wisdom For me as the therapist? To keep
Me Ya hanging in there?

Both I suppose. As these things go!

I have amazing kids. How they are as "normal" (wtf that means) as they are - with a crazy ass mother - ill
Never know.

I hope it's because they I know they are loved and perfect as they are. And any craziness or wrong doing is on me. Which I think they do - when I mess Up and shout At them (Which is very rare)-I always apologises and own my mistake.

And my therapist have also been amazing my -'challenging , supportive, I've like them.

And I have found joy and peace in life at times. It just never lasts

I wish you had been my mother. You sound so attentive and understanding. Your children are very lucky.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Do you believe there are helpless cases?
Do you believe suicide is always a mental health issue?

 

[dyingalone123]

I know for sure one thing - when have really bad insomnia - it'll make a normal person suicidal!!!! I've never been a suicidal person until insomnia hit me hard!!!

I also have been chatting with some people that have had suicidal thoughts since 8 years old.

I wish psychiatrists and the medical community understood more about it :(

 

[Someone123]

It goes against your goals and training, but the truth is that it would be best to accept that for some people it is best to ctb. You do sound like a good therapist and you could have helped me many years ago, but there are combinations of issues so that ctb can be a person's best option. Of course you can't really do this and uphold the rules of yor profession, but it is worth it to consider keeping this in the back of your mind.

 

[motel rooms]

I think that in most cases getting a therapist is basically nothing but renting a generic friend. Most of their insights are commonsensical: calm down, don't let the bastards grind you down, use your brain, surely there are still things that make you at least a little happy.

 

[Snake of Eden]

I think that in most cases getting a therapist is basically nothing but renting a generic friend. Most of their insights are commonsensical: calm down, don't let the bastards grind you down, use your brain, surely there are still things that make you at least a little happy.

Totally. Like my friend used to say that therapists are useful for rich people problems

 

[Rogue Proxy]

I think that in most cases getting a therapist is basically nothing but renting a generic friend.

I would suggest "platonic prostitutes" as a more fitting job title if not for them narcing on those who say "no" to life. Maybe "suicide stingers"?

On a related noted, how do we know that @KayKay isn't going to turn on us?

 

[motel rooms]

I would suggest "platonic prostitutes" as a more fitting job title if not for them narcing on those who say "no" to life. Maybe "suicide stingers"?

That's unfair, sex workers make people much happier than therapists!

On a related noted, how do we know that @KayKay isn't going to turn on us?

We don't know anything... We don't even know if they're really a therapist...

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

With all due respect to the therapist/member who started this thread…
a Therapist can be very useful In all sorts of situations - A therapist first got me medication 25 years ago that at least made me functional.

My last therapist taught me how to fall in love. Unfortunately I opened myself up to someone who destroyed my heart… But our project was successful up until that point…

In my current condition, I think I am beyond help. The patient must want to be cured. The patient must be willing to do the necessary work. I am broken and exhausted. Game over.

 

[dyingalone123]

That's unfair, sex workers make people much happier than therapists!



We don't know anything... We don't even know if they're really a therapist...

That's true. Ugh I wish there was like certified therapists on this forum that we can talk to for free. I can only dream. I can't say suicide to therapists without them getting scared.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

With all due respect to the therapist/member who started this thread…
a Therapist can be very useful In all sorts of situations - A therapist first got me medication 25 years ago that at least made me functional.

My last therapist taught me how to fall in love. Unfortunately I opened myself up to someone who destroyed my heart… But our project was successful up until that point…

In my current condition, I think I am beyond help. The patient must want to be cured. The patient must be willing to do the necessary work. I am broken and exhausted. Game over.

If something requires you to convince yourself it is effective, then does it truly have efficacy in the first place? I think the lines we've been fed so often about how one must put work into therapy to get something out of it are self soothing affirmations to try and downplay the shortcomings of modern psychotherapy.

Say, for example, you go to physiotherapy because you want to strengthen some muscles in your back that may have atrophied or weakened. After your physiotherapy sessions, you will know of the exercises are helping or not. The outcome will be self-evident.

You don't have to sit and ponder at home about whether or not you're making progress. You don't have to read dozens of workbooks. You don't have to wonder if you're not trying hard enough during your training. The physical changes (or lack thereof) will speak for themselves.

Do we blame ourselves if a drug doesn't work for us? No. Do we blame ourselves if we don't get the intended gains from physiotherapy? No. Why should we treat psychology any differently, if the field insists it should be on par with scientific disciplines? So don't blame yourself for some therapy not working, it just wasn't working for you.

My question for the OP is, do you disagree with a lot of the methods of current psychotherapy and do you think a lot of people end up being forced to turn to the profession because their issues are not well understood? Do you ever speak out about issues like this to colleagues and how do they respond?

People like me, who cannot remember several traumatic events from early childhood, are always to go to therapy and "process the trauma." This is literally impossible when you have memory loss. Yet people keep telling me it's my fault my ptsd does not improve because I don't want to waste more time on therapy, when it was not benefiting me in any way (I often ended up having my physical illnesses, lack of family/friends and autism downplayed by therapists which only made it worse)

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

If something requires you to convince yourself it is effective, then does it truly have efficacy in the first place? I think the lines we've been fed so often about how one must put work into therapy to get something out of it are self soothing affirmations to try and downplay the shortcomings of modern psychotherapy.

Therapists are merely human beings. It's not a science it's an art. If your therapist happens to be A human being with insight and wisdom and patience they might be helpful in talking through a problem or a challenge, offering some guidance.( I certainly could've use some of that in elementary school and junior high and high school and even college… Where I was depressed a lot of the time and flying blind… )

It's not like conventional medicine where certain procedures have predictable outcomes…

You don't have to sit and ponder at home about whether or not you're making progress. You don't have to read dozens of workbooks. You don't have to wonder if you're not trying hard enough during your training. The physical changes (or lack thereof) will speak for themselves.

Yes going to a physiotherapist, the outcomes are more predictable and self evident.

Do we blame ourselves if a drug doesn't work for us? No. Do we blame ourselves if we don't get the intended gains from physiotherapy? No. Why should we treat psychology any differently, if the field insists it should be on par with scientific disciplines

I don't think they ever claimed to be on par with other scientific disciplines.

? So don't blame yourself for some therapy not working, it just wasn't working for you.

My question for the OP is, do you disagree with a lot of the methods of current psychotherapy and do you think a lot of people end up being forced to turn to the profession because their issues are not well understood?

I have a lot of questions around the use of anti-depressants. I took antidepressants for 20 years but I don't think I ever made a serious attempt to understand specifically why I suffered from severe depression. Or how to address the depression and cure it if possible.My last therapist wanted to wean me off antidepressants and address the self-loathing that was at the core of my depression. But I was terrified of coming off antidepressants and the necessary multiple sessions a week would've cost a tremendous amount of money, The dark place it took me would've rendered me unable to work…

In retrospect it might've been useful. I've suffered from depression my whole life and I don't entirely understand where it comes from or how I could ever make it go away. Now it's too late. Oh well.

Do you ever speak out about issues like this to colleagues and how do they respond?

People like me, who cannot remember several traumatic events from early childhood, are always to go to therapy and "process the trauma." This is literally impossible when you have memory loss. Yet people keep telling me it's my fault my ptsd does not improve because I don't want to waste more time on therapy, when it was not benefiting me in any way (I often ended up having my physical illnesses, lack of family/friends and autism downplayed by therapists which only made it worse)

If Therapy was not working for you, Or even making your condition worse, I'm sorry to hear that… I think there's simply a lot of problems that therapist can't solve. They can't easily make our past trauma go away. They can't Magically fix horrible circumstances we happen to find ourselves in. They are somebody we pay a lot of money to so that they will actively listen to us and offer some guidance which hopefully is more helpful than friends or family.

All of that said, I can safely say my previous therapist did a massive amount of damage to my life. In the midst of this latest severe depression, I asked him if I should sell all my stocks since I wasn't thinking clearly -he said "sure you can always buy them back later. "
Coincidentally the next day the market was crashing and I sold everything at a tremendous loss. He should've told me "don't do anything when you're feeling like this." Don't get married. Don't quit a job. Don't sell your house. Don't shave your head. No major decisions when you're suffering from severe clinical depression. That was a huge professional error on his part and It wrecked my life. Financially anyway.

And in the end, none of it really matters- My life is totally fucked And beyond repair.

 

[dyingalone123]

Therapists are merely human beings. It's not a science it's an art. If your therapist happens to be A human being with insight and wisdom and patience they might be helpful in talking through a problem or a challenge, offering some guidance.( I certainly could've use some of that in elementary school and junior high and high school and even college… Where I was depressed a lot of the time and flying blind… )

It's not like conventional medicine where certain procedures have predictable outcomes…

Yes going to a physiotherapist, the outcomes are more predictable and self evident.



I don't think they ever claimed to be on par with other scientific disciplines.


I have a lot of questions around the use of anti-depressants. I took antidepressants for 20 years but I don't think I ever made a serious attempt to understand specifically why I suffered from severe depression. Or how to address the depression and cure it if possible.My last therapist wanted to wean me off antidepressants and address the self-loathing that was at the core of my depression. But I was terrified of coming off antidepressants and the necessary multiple sessions a week would've cost a tremendous amount of money, The dark place it took me would've rendered me unable to work…

In retrospect it might've been useful. I've suffered from depression my whole life and I don't entirely understand where it comes from or how I could ever make it go away. Now it's too late. Oh well.

If Therapy was not working for you, Or even making your condition worse, I'm sorry to hear that… I think there's simply a lot of problems that therapist can't solve. They can't easily make our past trauma go away. They can't Magically fix horrible circumstances we happen to find ourselves in. They are somebody we pay a lot of money to so that they will actively listen to us and offer some guidance which hopefully is more helpful than friends or family.

All of that said, I can safely say my previous therapist did a massive amount of damage to my life. In the midst of this latest severe depression, I asked him if I should sell all my stocks since I wasn't thinking clearly -he said "sure you can always buy them back later. "
Coincidentally the next day the market was crashing and I sold everything at a tremendous loss. He should've told me "don't do anything when you're feeling like this." Don't get married. Don't quit a job. Don't sell your house. Don't shave your head. No major decisions when you're suffering from severe clinical depression. That was a huge professional error on his part and It wrecked my life. Financially anyway.

And in the end, none of it really matters- My life is totally fucked And beyond repair.

So sorry to hear your story. I don't know how youve survived 20 years of depression. Did the medication help?

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

So sorry to hear your story. I don't know how youve survived 20 years of depression. Did the medication help?

Around the age of 22 I had a nervous break down… And for the next five years I struggled, every day I woke up with torturous fear in the pit of my stomach with my mind in disarray…

By the time I got to around age 27 or so the depression got unbearable and I finally went to see a psychiatrist for the first time in my life. He prescribed some type of antidepressant in within 30 days I felt like my Shattered mind Was finally made whole again… I felt like I was on medication, I felt like I was wired, I didn't exactly feel like myself… But it was better than being utterly depressed- It gave me a fighting chance…
The next 20 years had ups and downs but looking back was still a struggle - I never achieved any sustainable level of success…

Would I recommend antidepressants?
I would try alternatives first… Mushrooms, Ayahuasca, toad… But if you're still suffering grievously I would not rule out anti-depressants… Just try not to get hooked long-term… I hope that's helpful… Feel free to ask other questions if you have any… I will do my best to answer them…

It's extremely difficult graduating from college and heading out into the world while suffering from mental collapse… I went off the rails early and I don't think I ever got back on track… I was faking it but never really making it…

 

[dyingalone123]

Around the age of 22 I had a nervous break down… And for the next five years I struggled, every day I woke up with torturous fear in the pit of my stomach with my mind in disarray…

By the time I got to around age 27 or so the depression got unbearable and I finally went to see a psychiatrist for the first time in my life. He prescribed some type of antidepressant in within 30 days I felt like my Shattered mind Was finally made whole again… I felt like I was on medication, I felt like I was wired, I didn't exactly feel like myself… But it was better than being utterly depressed- It gave me a fighting chance…
The next 20 years had ups and downs but looking back was still a struggle - I never achieved any sustainable level of success…

Would I recommend antidepressants?
I would try alternatives first… Mushrooms, Ayahuasca, toad… But if you're still suffering grievously I would not rule out anti-depressants… Just try not to get hooked long-term… I hope that's helpful… Feel free to ask other questions if you have any… I will do my best to answer them…

It's extremely difficult graduating from college and heading out into the world while suffering from mental collapse… I went off the rails early and I don't think I ever got back on track… I was faking it but never really making it…

Honestly the fact that you've been fighting for so long shows you that you have a lot of strength and courage to live with the unknown. In my eyes , you've accomplished more than anyone else. Money, stuff and all that crap doesn't mean shit.

I'm only 6 months in and I want to throw in the towel. Do you know what caused your mental breakdown? I spoke to someone who had depression since 8 years of age. He's now 48 and manages around this illness. He's currently treatment resistant. I don't know how he does it. He just lives with it.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Honestly the fact that you've been fighting for so long shows you that you have a lot of strength and courage to live with the unknown. In my eyes , you've accomplished more than anyone else. Money, stuff and all that crap doesn't mean shit.

I'm only 6 months in and I want to throw in the towel. Do you know what caused your mental breakdown? I spoke to someone who had depression since 8 years of age. He's now 48 and manages around this illness. He's currently treatment resistant. I don't know how he does it. He just lives with it.

Well, you're very kind. I just made the best of it. Throwing in the towel never ever occurred to me once. There were many years of suffering and embarrassment and shame and humiliation as I watched my peers achieve stunning success with families and careers, etc …While I stumbled on.
I think some people believed I had chosen some more bohemian path , Unaware I simply did not have the strength and talent to achieve much more. But my luck ran out.

You asked what was the source of my mental breakdown?

Some mental illness runs in my family - my uncle killed himself.
My father was Very accomplished but highly neurotic.
I think I probably suffered attachment trauma as an infant – I don't remember my mother touching me very much - or saying I love you or offering affection. My father either. They were very warm people but not a lot of physical affection. A lot of neglect.
I developed a tremendous self hatred. I felt physically unattractive and athletically incompetent - Even though I was actually a pretty cute kid and I had raw strength and agility.
I always felt like an outsider. I tried to imagine that being a weirdo was somehow superior - but inside I Felt ignored, rejected.

I was never taught to be a man. To stand up for myself. To throw a punch if necessary. And so I went through high school and college fairly weak and lost - Avoiding all the incredible opportunities to learn and grow, overwhelmed by stress and anxiety.
At The end of college when everybody else was Heading off to High paying jobs… I Suddenly realized I had to make a choice and I have no idea what I was doing… I floundered…
I snapped - I felt something break inside of me, inside my head…

 

[dyingalone123]

Well, you're very kind. I just made the best of it. Throwing in the towel never ever occurred to me once. There were many years of suffering and embarrassment and shame and humiliation as I watched my peers achieve stunning success with families and careers And remarkable achievement…While I stumbled on. I think some people believed I had chosen some more bohemian path , Unaware I simply did not have the strength and talent to achieve much more. But my luck ran out.

You asked what was the source of my mental breakdown? That's a very good question. I can't say for sure although I've been thinking a lot about this lately (- I've had a lot of time on my hands lately.)

I think some mental illness runs in my family - my uncle killed himself.
My father was Very accomplished but highly neurotic.
I think I probably suffered attachment trauma as an infant – I don't remember my mother touching me very much - or saying I love you or offering affection. My father either. They were very warm people but not a lot of physical affection. A lot of neglect.
I developed a tremendous amount of self hatred. I felt physically unattractive and athletically incompetent - Even though I was actually a pretty cute kid and I had raw strength and agility.
I always felt like an outsider. The kid who got picked last for the team sports. I tried to imagine that being a weirdo was somehow superior - but inside I Felt ignored, rejected.

I was never taught to be a man. To stand up for myself. To throw a punch if necessary. And so I went through high school and college fairly weak and lost - Avoiding all the incredible opportunities to learn and grow, overwhelmed by stress and anxiety.
At The end of college when everybody else was Heading off to High paying jobs… I Suddenly realized I had to make a choice and I have no idea what I was doing… I floundered…
It felt similar to what I'm feeling right now…

Can I ask you what kept you going? Instead of throwing in the towel.

Yeah it's one of the biggest reasons why I can't look on social media anymore.

I'm so sorry for how you feel. I feel like I'm floundering too. I'm just too much of a coward to die. A part of me still has hope and then my brain reverts back to - you need to die for relief. Coming on to this forum is almost like a relief valve. It's almost compulsion to stop my anxiety. I can choose or have control over my end yet I don't die due to survivial instincts,

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Can I ask you what kept you going? Instead of throwing in the towel.

I was working in entertainment and I was getting jobs from time to time so it felt like massive success was right around the corner. I thought to myself once I can earn a pile of cash sufficiently, I'm going to get some decent therapy and try to figure out what the hell is going on with my brain.

And I did. I took better care of myself. Eating better. Exercise. Yoga. All that stuff. Felt like I was making progress.
Deep down I knew something was off. I tried not to compare myself to other people but it was clear they were doing "better "By pretty much any metric. I try to ignore this.
I distracted myself enough to believe everything was OK. Life was OK. I had a pretty fun social life. Travel. Nice restaurants. Lots of friends.Did not occur to me to throw in the towel. But it was all very tenuous. Built on delusion.

Yeah it's one of the biggest reasons why I can't look on social media anymore.

Because everybody else's lives look so wonderful? Yes that can be challenging…

I'm so sorry for how you feel. I feel like I'm floundering too. I'm just too much of a coward to die. A part of me still has hope and then my brain reverts back to - you need to die for relief.

If you still have hope, that's pretty good. That's a reason to persist for sure.

Coming on to this forum is almost like a relief valve. It's almost compulsion to stop my anxiety. I can choose or have control over my end yet I don't die due to survivial instincts,

Yes, when everything else feels like it's totally out of control, we have this little secret we're not telling anybody… We can press the self-destruct button anytime… We can take our marbles and go home…
As a lifelong quitter, I am a master of this particular strategy… :-)

 

[Rogue Proxy]

That's unfair, sex workers make people much happier than therapists!

So true! Even the most terrifying clowns bring far more joy than therapists. Sadly, this could be one of the reasons why sex workers are criminalized while therapists are lionized. God forbid the majority gains too much genuine happiness. . .