Do incels only want a certain type of women?

[noname223]

Some time ago I watched an Interview with a philosopher about incels. And he said it is absurd that men who don't have sex consider themselves a repressed minority.

He said these incels also don't want just sex with women in general. They also have a very strict notion which women are good enough to have sex with. And there is like a dichotomy Inside their head which women are worth to have Sex with. With many hetero-normative Stereotypes Inside their mind.

What Do think? Is there some truth in his words?

Personally, I project way more into women who Look attractive according to Western beauty Standards. But when I learn more about These women I often end up disappointed. There are so many biases when we judge other people's outer appearance. However, I am not an incel.

 

[Dejected 55]

The word "incel" meaning involuntarily celibate isn't a bad word in and of itself... and there are plenty of nice men who are involuntarily celibate and who do not hate women or think hostile thoughts towards women. Many of these men are not very picky either. I mean, if you knew the kinds of women they found attractive and who had been rejecting those men, you might be surprised.

But... unfortunately, there is a small segment of those men who are hostile, who do hate women, who are VERY picky and if they ever had a woman would want to own her, control her... and these horrible men are making it that much harder on all the rest of the men who are not like them... because women encounter a man "in the wild" and it can be very difficult to tell the difference between a man who is sad and alone and feels rejected and just wants to be held and loved and seen and would be the kindest partner you could ever have if you let him in... VS the horrible man who has nothing but bad thoughts about you and will harm you without regard as long as he gets some pleasure out of it.

I wish we could more easily separate the bad men from the good ones. Unfortunately bad men are often good at pretending to be good on the surface... and good men are sometimes too scared to show up and make themselves available to be hurt again.

Society has a way of fucking over men and women who are decent and kind. It's hard to survive long in this world by being actually decent. It's a shame society doesn't encourage it more... but it seems the worse you are, the better your chances of success in all walks of life. Caring about others seems to hold most people back.

So I can't and won't defend the incel community as most people know them. I just wish they hadn't co-opted the word "incel" from people who are truly involuntarily celibate but aren't assholes.

 

[noname223]

The word "incel" meaning involuntarily celibate isn't a bad word in and of itself... and there are plenty of nice men who are involuntarily celibate and who do not hate women or think hostile thoughts towards women. Many of these men are not very picky either. I mean, if you knew the kinds of women they found attractive and who had been rejecting those men, you might be surprised.

But... unfortunately, there is a small segment of those men who are hostile, who do hate women, who are VERY picky and if they ever had a woman would want to own her, control her... and these horrible men are making it that much harder on all the rest of the men who are not like them... because women encounter a man "in the wild" and it can be very difficult to tell the difference between a man who is sad and alone and feels rejected and just wants to be held and loved and seen and would be the kindest partner you could ever have if you let him in... VS the horrible man who has nothing but bad thoughts about you and will harm you without regard as long as he gets some pleasure out of it.

I wish we could more easily separate the bad men from the good ones. Unfortunately bad men are often good at pretending to be good on the surface... and good men are sometimes too scared to show up and make themselves available to be hurt again.

Society has a way of fucking over men and women who are decent and kind. It's hard to survive long in this world by being actually decent. It's a shame society doesn't encourage it more... but it seems the worse you are, the better your chances of success in all walks of life. Caring about others seems to hold most people back.

So I can't and won't defend the incel community as most people know them. I just wish they hadn't co-opted the word "incel" from people who are truly involuntarily celibate but aren't assholes.

I would also say that I am currently involuntarily celibate but never in my life would I identify myself as incel. I think one does not necessarily need to be an incel if one does not have sex. I think one has to differentiate. Inceldom is an ideology and worldview. However, just having sex or not should not determine your worldview.

I think you are right in itself incel is not a bad word. But the incel community in itself is very toxic and which impact it has on the society. I think many men suffer from the hetero-normative society. And they also suffer because of other men. For me identifying as incel also endorses the ideology of the incel community. It is not harmless.

I think without caring about the context and implications many words are in themselves harmless. But the meaning behind them matters.

 

[UtopianSoliloquies]

Some time ago I watched an Interview with a philosopher about incels. And he said it is absurd that men who don't have sex consider themselves a repressed minority.

He said these incels also don't want just sex with women in general. They also have a very strict notion which women are good enough to have sex with. And there is like a dichotomy Inside their head which women are worth to have Sex with. With many hetero-normative Stereotypes Inside their mind.

What Do think? Is there some truth in his words?

Personally, I project way more into women who Look attractive according to Western beauty Standards. But when I learn more about These women I often end up disappointed. There are so many biases when we judge other people's outer appearance. However, I am not an incel.

I would mostly agree with this philosopher you are referring to. Let's be clear here though, the meaning of words are seldom encapsulated by their etymology, and the idea of an "incel" as it is currently used, especially in western societies, refers to a specific positive assertions of how men and women behave, and adopting as an ideology specific conclusions that come from these assertions. Mainly, the assertions are that women will invariably romantically pursue men who are of a greater attractiveness or financial success than themselves, and that this attractiveness and success can be objectively measured to some extent (they often use skull shape as an analogue for attractiveness), and, finally, if they are "black pilled", that men's attractiveness is mainly immutable. Of course, I as with with most people take some issue with these claims.

The conclusions incels draw from these notions can vary, but two seem to be the most common. Some incels will seek to improve their physical appearance and make more money in order to meet the standards they think women have. Others, the aforementioned "blackpilled" incels, assert that they cannot improve their physical attractiveness and are therefore condemned to be romantically and sexually unlovable.

By this definition of incel, I do think it's a bit absurd to claim that they are an oppressed minority akin to women, people of colour, or sexual minorities because of one very important distinction: the way incels think people work is incorrect, and the falsehood is constructed within their own community and reinforced by it, whilst being outright rejected by most of society outside of that community. In other words, incels have constructed their social category from the inside, whereas these other minorities had their social categories constructed around them by other people.

Still, I can't 100% blame people who identify as incels for the situation they're in. This way of thinking isn't as popular as it is because every lonely man independently concluded that women are 'chad seeking algorithms' that only care about your skull shape, muscle mass, and bank account. Ideologues and grifters on the internet have spread this idea to disaffected men because it is not only immensely profitable, but also allows you to pull more men into reactionary movements that seek to reverse social progress on the issue of women's liberation. People with power have taken advantage of this situation of male loneliness to further their class interests, and the situation itself was greatly exacerbated by the fact that gendered expectations of success have not caught up with changing social norms between the sexes, as well as other factors like the isolating nature of American urban planning that replaces third places with box stores and makes freedom of movement Sisyphean without a car.

 

[Dejected 55]

At least in the culture of the United States... society is cruel to both men and women who find themselves alone. I had a great-Aunt who lived and died alone. I do not remember there ever having been any talk of her ever dating anyone. She would have been the traditional "old maid" that others would talk about. As a kid, I never looked at her and saw her as flawed for being alone. I didn't think less of her for being alone. Growing up, it was just a fact and I guess I grew up thinking she was alone because she wanted to be and she did other things to occupy her mind and her time rather than having a family of her own. She had many brothers and sisters all of whom had families and multiple children.

But after she passed away... and as I became a lonely adult... I began to remember her differently... and seeing through my adult eyes, I wonder now did she feel lonely? Was she alone because she wanted to be... or because she had been unable to connect with anyone else? Was she sad to be alone? I do not know. I did not know her well enough to know, and mostly was too young to have thought to ask any of those questions when I did know her. But I do know how the larger world would see her and treat her, whether she was alone by choice or not... she would be talked about behind her back for being alone, people would ask what was wrong with her that no man wants her, and so forth. And as a lonely grown man, I know this happens behind my back as well. Not all the time, because I'm not the center of the world... but I do know people have had conversations about me, about what I must be doing wrong that no woman wants me.

Society treats men and women equally in this regard... it might be charming at first, when you are young... but the older you get without relationship experience, the longer you are alone, no mate, no spouse, no kids... people increasingly do judge you and look at you as you are wrong or broken somehow. Even if you like yourself, even if you were happy being alone, but then if you aren't happy alone, have tried and failed, and it makes you sad... then you know others look upon you as wrong, broken, something less-than... it grates on you over time.

But I do hate the "incel" community that has sprang up and been vocal in recent years. The hatred and harm it does to themselves and to the object of their hate. I just don't understand the hate. I understand lonely, frustrated, depressed... I don't understand hate.

And now, because "incel" has been taken and twisted by these people... there is no name for someone like me. There is no group for me to commune with that will not be lumped in with the others. Any time I speak I have to be very careful and I have to pre-apologize so women don't think I hate them. It's too easy to want to group all people into the same tribes whether they belong or not. If they aren't in your club, they must be in your enemy's, right? "With us or against us!" is all too often the mantra.

I hate Trump... to be political for a second... but I actually get along with many Republicans I know better than I get along with Democrats. Why? Because I do know some reasonable Republicans who also don't like Trump and we can discuss our other differences intelligently. But Democrats right now? Too many of them are mad at me for not hating Trump as much as they do... for not wanting to execute him or deport him or launch him into space. It's because if I'm not 100% anti-Trump to the nth degree ALL the time, then I must secretly like him. Much like, if I don't apologize ALL the time, I am assumed to be an incel like the others and I get lumped in with them, and that's frustrating.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Yeah, they seem to really want this type of woman:

Spoiler: TW NSFW-ish

 

[cemeteryismyhome]

Some days I can't stand these made-up words and "identities".

 

[psp3000]

some of the women they say they are attracted to and the criteria they came up with along with some social hierarchy and archetype stuff made me think that / wonder if there was something homoerotic about inceldom especially when I saw that whole looksmaxxing thing trending ?I think about a year or two ago on social media?

but I ran this theory past a person who was a former incel and they said I was wrong / it was a stretch

(I haven't seen anyone else talk about this and nothing really shows up online when I look up incels and eroticism so I could be wrong but it is certainly interesting and something at least I have noticed)

 

[katara]

Some days I can't stand these made-up words and "identities".

Same it's so ridiculous, "looksmaxxing" people are fucking retarded I think it's just men who refuse to do basic hygiene or are narcissistic and in love with themselves.

 

[amerie]

Yes and that's why I don't really pity them. Ugly people who live in literal slums find ways to spawn 800 kids and they live chill simple lives (not saying that poverty is aspirational btw).

It's not hard to find people to have sex with or date it's literally a biological urge, the problem is they're picky but they don't want to work on themselves to make themselves good enough for the Japanese waifu or Sydney Sweeney model they want so they moan and whine that women don't want them but the reality is the women THEY want don't want them.

Same it's so ridiculous, "looksmaxxing" people are fucking retarded I think it's just men who refuse to do basic hygiene or are narcissistic and in love with themselves.

People really think this looks good bicycle seat head ass

 

[Forever Sleep]

This is something I get annoyed with to be honest. It's not to say we shouldn't have preferences- we're only human. But, it's effectively a double standard.

They will complain that women won't consider them because they are supposedly unattractive, short and/ or unemployed/ not wealthy but then, some will also say that they're afraid they will have to 'settle' for someone.

So- women should be 'charitable' enough to give them a try. In fact, they should be trying to see the other values they have but, they'll still be 'settling' with a lesser woman. So- they require being valued but they won't necessarily return that.

I suppose it depends what we all want too. I've heard the argument from guys that their bar is set much lower. Especially in terms of just shagging someone. It depends if woman do just want that though. And, is it even all that good to be with someone who doesn't truly value you? How could that be a positive experience?

It's maybe cruel but when I hear people- men and women openly talk about 'settling' for someone, I suppose a part of me hopes they don't get that chance. Why should that other person 'settle' for someone who sees them as inferior? It seems like a recipe for disaster to me- degredation, criticism, abuse. Surely it's essential in a relationship- to be with someone who genuinely values you?

 

[FoxSauce]

Idki much bout said topic but virgin and young (20s) and pretty without makeup?

Ofc prob assuming here.

But very contradicting cuz some hate wemon? And don't wanna be with them? Prob missing something here.

 

[ravenx]

Im involuntary celibate, I only wish she was loyal

 

[FoxSauce]

Im involuntary celibate, I only wish she was loyal

Hope you find one my guy

 

[ravenx]

Hope you find one my guy

It's also impossible to have someone to have sex with as an ugly man.

 

[NonEssential]

My type of woman is a woman who is interested in me. (So I currently don't have a type)

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

At first when I heard this definition a couple of months back (I always heard about it but didn't look into it since I'm not interested in relationships) I thought these people were just unlucky fellow that didn't know better but after looking about it online and seeing the behavior they display towards women, I just think most of them hate women in general, like visceral hate; on top of that they hate the fact that they feel attraction to them in the first place because I can't explain some of the hate I've seen.

Either these people are closeted gay misogynists (they exist) or idk , psychopathy.
I personally had no problem talking to girls or women in my life, I found them much better company than 70% of the boys or men I've met which hurt me everytime because I wasn't part of the stereotype; a lot of ego driven people on this planet.