[Article] Why I despise using the ‘R’ word (pertaining to CTB)

[TAW122]

Disclaimer: This is NOT a recovery thread, but rather an article discussing about terminology and it's definition. I aim to be consistent. While the title is 'attention-grabbing', I thought it was a way to get my point across succinctly.

So with that in mind, the word I'm referring to is the "Recovery", and I am rather averse to using that terminology partly because it can be confusing and also doesn't really convey my real stance. When I think of recovery, I think of people who have more or less swore off CTB'ing and changed their stance (of course there are more nuances, but that's the general example) with regards to right to die and no longer wanting to die. However, that isn't necessarily the case with me, and that is where things are a bit more confusing, especially when (on the outside) it appears to be that I've recovered and suddenly enjoyed sentience, that is far from the reality. There is always going to be a dread of sentience and recognizing sentience for what it is rather than blindly living in bliss is not indicative of enjoying it, but simply being aware and only coping. For me (perhaps even anecdotally) even during the better times, likely also fleeting moments (nothing pleasurable is always infinite, but rather finite) during the course and span of sentience (many decades in duration, barring sudden ends), I merely 'cope.' I will always refer and recognize that CTB is an option and having such an option available is also "ironically" what keeps me going until an event that is untenable and unbearable pushes me over. It just makes the dread of sentience more 'tolerable' during the interim.

Meanwhile, while there are people who do end up recovering and considering themselves 'recovered', I also see recovery as possibly a temporary state, only when certain circumstances are active and present. This means that if someone does indeed recover, as per the definition of such, it is possible for said person to also go back to the state of wanting to CTB over time, especially when circumstances that push them towards CTB resurface. I am not similar to said kinds of people/persons. I have posted an older thread (linked here) about the concept of recovery and made note of distinctions between them.

Furthermore, there are two examples that show the dread of sentience, one of which is from an antinatalist YouTuber, MarcMundSpilli (he used to go by a different alias before but as of this article, this is his current alias on YouTube), and one of his rants (linked here with regards to pain and suffering and also here with regards to coping) talks about distractions and sentience. The main point that he is getting through is sentience itself is a net negative (which is generally true) and that copes and distractions are what keeps us occupied and satiated so that we don't think about suffering while being in the state of sentience.

Similarly, one of my professors many years ago, back when I was in university talked about how "humans are very good at distracting themselves [from death]." which he is referring to about sentience and what not. It made sense to me and I've arrived at the conclusion that it is due to how that 'death' itself is rather unpleasant and how humans (at least most of humanity) does their best to avoid the notion of death by copes and distractions. Even when it does 'inevitably' happen (natural causes, unexpected events, accidents, etc.), humanity still generally shies away from it as much as possible.

Therefore, I see that sentience, even in the better times is often only manageable due to a continuation of copes, distractions, and even having a key out, as I've always held two quotes to heart, one by a 19th century philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche: "The thought of suicide is a great consolation: by means of it one gets through many a dark night.", and a 20th century writer, George Sterling: "A prison becomes a home when you have the key." These two quotes are rather meaningful to me as they form my worldview and pro-choice stance when it comes to the right to die. The first one by Nietzsche refers to the CTB ideation and knowing that when one views CTB as a valid option, it does help with coping and less of a taxing burden that sentience has. Then, the other one, which is by Sterling refers to the actual (true) means of escaping and by having the means (in his quote the word 'key' is analogous to CTB method) to actually do so can make prison (or sentience) feel like a home instead of a burden. Throughout the better times in my life, I've had the means to reliably exit and that alone has allowed me to continue or at least be less burdened and less anxious overall.

 

[Dreamwalker]

I love philosophizing posts like these !! I agree with you

It's silly to use a word like recovery, something we constantly attribute to things like overcoming addictions or illnesses, in the context of one's own being. Existing is in and of itself the right to choose non-existence; it transcends all moral, ethical, and ideological frameworks

 

[catsalvation]

"A prison becomes a home when you have the key."

That's what I feel exactly. Only if I'll have the means to exit I'll be able to put my mind onto other things. Also agree with the notion of 'recovery'. There are always ups and downs, who knows, maybe our life miraculously turns into a fairy tale next week but then everything goes bad again and we CTB, does that erase the good parts? No...

 

[capi]

I relate to a lot here.

For my disabilities, at most is that they can go into remission, they are incurable. Recovery is possible but it almost always ends. Its a constant cycle.

Despite that, people have claimed to find happiness and peace, but they do so solely through coping mechanisms.

That's nice for them, but the thing is, im not them. I dont want my life to be full of coping mechanisms. Same reason why I wouldnt want to live as a blind person. It goes against my values in life, even if people can learn acceptance.
Why am i forced to be subjugated to how im ought to live my life and have others peoples values forced on me?

I could become a burn victim, deaf, blind, etc, and people will still try to force me to accept my life. Im sorry, but i dont want to live my life that way.
Even if good things can happen in my life, i dont see it as worth it.

But then people twist your values, making it seem like its a "wrong mindset" and try to force blame and a morality system onto you.

Like, of course if i changed my values ("mindset") i wouldnt care anymore!, but those are MY values! Theres a reason i have them. If my values are at the will of others to change then who will i become?

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

About the sterling quote.

Spoiler

A prison does become a home when you have the key which is why exactly the key is not given to you, you are a slave to the system you are born in, nothing more.

The people above you not only want you to suffer and to serve them but if the key was available to everyone, it would take away from their pleasure of domination.

What point is there to torture or enslave someone who doesn't fear death? What pleasure can you even derive from having power over such a person?

It's the same with groomers, although this is not the subject, I think it's appropriate to bring it up, groomers move on to their next victim after their initial victim has grown accustomed to their abuse, to the torture, to whatever the hell they've groomed them to accept, when they've grown complacent, when they've grown to desire that pain, that fear, that degeneracy; they lose what they had before, innocence.

Innocence that could be exploited, that could be squashed, that could be torn to pieces, hope that could be destroyed, that could be violated.

This is what I believe. This is why I believe we got no key to our prison.

 

[eggsausagerice]

Existing is in and of itself the right to choose non-existence; it transcends all moral, ethical, and ideological frameworks

people exist whether they're depressed, happy, anxious, or actively suicidal. they keep on existing because death doesn't come easily in the 21st century. something i think about a lot is that people might think i'm happy or that i want to live just because i'm not talking about suicide all the time, or because i'm capable of laughing or enjoying something without being burdened by my depression. living is always going to be a baseline state and your personal happiness ebbs and flows, but it's not like you can just stop existing temporarily when you become too depressed. i hate how absolute people are about suicidality in general and that if you aren't actively feeling bad about yourself then you're in recovery or not as depressed as you said you were. i wish i could explain it better to people.

 

[Pluto]

 

[CTB Dream]

ya vtru this rcvr wrd use diff this same any wrd diff meann, ya this all temp 1d say ok nxtd say no

 

[TAW122]

@Dreamwalker Thank you for your kind words, and yes, I often have a problem with just the word "recovery" itself because it doesn't accurately paint the picture or convey the current state or stance that I have when it comes to sentience. I think just because I'm not actively or aggressively pushing to CTB anytime soon at the moment, it doesn't imply that I don't see it as an option. I always see CTB as an option and ironically, it is also how I "cope" with the nature of sentience itself.

@capi I agree with your sentiments and yes, I see sentience as just one big huge cope and rarely are there people who actually 'truly' recover and never really go back to suffering. Sometimes it could just take one (or more) major changes in life events that puts them down the road towards CTB again.

@WhatCouldHaveBeen32 Yeah and that is why it is ultimately up to us to secure our own key (CTB method) out of this prison (sentience/life itself). It is challenging due to the availability of methods, one's own personal circumstances, and many other variables. I included Sterling's quote only because it is an accurate reflection on how that having a key (method in this context of CTB) allows for coping with sentience more than being constantly in fight/flight mode desperately clawing for a means to end.

@eggsausagerice I think what you said is true too, about that if one isn't openly showing depression, profound sadness or other negative state that they are in 'recovery' when it is much more complex and deeper than that. Even in the better times of my life, I never let go of the concept or idea of CTB, and ironically it is the thought of CTB and the (real, actual) means to CTB that allowed me to cope and function (even at baseline) in society. If I had neither or so, I'd be worse off for sure, and I may even end up trying desperate means to CTB (with great risk of failure)...

 

[Forever Sleep]

I suppose it might be a personal feeling towards the word and its connotations. I remember a post very recently by a member who felt almost afraid of recovery and improvement. I think it's something many here feel too- the worry that feeling happier might be setting us up for a greater fall.

What came to mind was the phrase that former alcoholics like to use- that they are always in recovery and never take it for granted they are recovered- because they know how easy it would be to revert back.

There again, I suppose someone who experiences ideation as more of an intrusive thought may actually want to reach a time they are free of those thoughts and can consider themselves 'recovered'.

I think it also depends on what value we place on life. Those of us who are tired of the expectations put on us to work and be a cog in the system may well feel the notion of 'recovery' really just equates to demanding we be a functioning, working and tax paying member of society. Which we may be wanting with all our heart- to escape from!

I think what many suicidal people question is: 'What am I recovering to? What do I aspire to? What do I love? Will I likely achieve it? Will it be worth all the effort? Will it be sustainable? If I eventually fail- will that fall be harder?' If we feel uncertain or even doubtful it looks worth the effort- then we may feel like 'recovery' will be ineffective for us.

It also just assumes that our ideation makes us miserable. So- it's something we must work to banish. I'd rather suggest that it isn't ideation necessarily For some of us. It's the frustration we don't feel able to act on it.

Obviously, the ideal would be that life becomes so full of rainbows and purpose that we simply forget to be miserable. But- how many people even have that life? How many have lives we even envy? I'm not sure I do even envy others. I can usually find some part of their life I feel sure I'd be miserable with- in their shoes. Maybe my expectations are too high but then, can we realistically lower them? Force ourselves to like what we simply don't?

 

[BullsDon'tFly]

@Forever Sleep I really resonate with your message. Especially some sentences.

the worry that feeling happier might be setting us up for a greater fall

That's what happened to me. Big depressive crisis three years ago after a lot of years of underlying lower depression/existential and self-esteem issues, tried to attempt, went to the psych ward for a month, started taking meds and life became bearable again, got almost "high" on the antidepressants, started being a crazy whirligig hungry of making new experiences without realizing what were the things that actually made me feel safe, didn't solve any underlying issues...
Now big depressive crisis again, even worse since I feel I haven't learnt anything and that the last three years were just an illusion of how other people can experience life. I don't want to feel good, I don't look forward to some mood change only to fall back harder again.

hose of us who are tired of the expectations put on us to work and be a cog in the system may well feel the notion of 'recovery' really just equates to demanding we be a functioning, working and tax paying member of society. Which we may be wanting with all our heart- to escape from!

I agree, I think there's a lot of pressure from society to stay in your lane and continue to do the things you're told to. That's why I admire so much people like (some) artists and scientists, who seem to be able to fit into society just by... being themselves? Not every moment, but I think you get the point. Having this fountain of ideas, creativity, etc inside that makes them
able to choose what to do, what do they like, while also fitting into some norm. I'm really disappointed not to be able to follow those paths.

Obviously, the ideal would be that life becomes so full of rainbows and purpose that we simply forget to be miserable. But- how many people even have that life? How many have lives we even envy? I'm not sure I do even envy others. I can usually find some part of their life I feel sure I'd be miserable with- in their shoes. Maybe my expectations are too high but then, can we realistically lower them? Force ourselves to like what we simply don't?

That's true. The subtlety is to find an equilibrium we're ok with, because life cannot be perfect by definition. I know a lot of people that don't know how to compute a percentage making a recipe and laugh it off, I don't know how to draw or play an instrument and feel I have missed the point of living. I don't know, it's fine to be miserable on certain aspects if they're not what you think are important for you, but yeah for some people the standard is too high and we consider ourselves trapped for every little piece we miss.
I've met people that truly enjoy life and are also smart and sensitive. When I saw peacefulness and joy by their eyes, I realized I will never perceive true happiness. It's not something capable for me alone, I can only experience behind someone who's able to produce it for themselves. That's a life worth living.

 

[Forever Sleep]

@Forever Sleep I really resonate with your message. Especially some sentences.

That's what happened to me. Big depressive crisis three years ago after a lot of years of underlying lower depression/existential and self-esteem issues, tried to attempt, went to the psych ward for a month, started taking meds and life became bearable again, got almost "high" on the antidepressants, started being a crazy whirligig hungry of making new experiences without realizing what were the things that actually made me feel safe, didn't solve any underlying issues...
Now big depressive crisis again, even worse since I feel I haven't learnt anything and that the last three years were just an illusion of how other people can experience life. I don't want to feel good, I don't look forward to some mood change only to fall back harder again.

I agree, I think there's a lot of pressure from society to stay in your lane and continue to do the things you're told to. That's why I admire so much people like (some) artists and scientists, who seem to be able to fit into society just by... being themselves? Not every moment, but I think you get the point. Having this fountain of ideas, creativity, etc inside that makes them
able to choose what to do, what do they like, while also fitting into some norm. I'm really disappointed not to be able to follow those paths.


That's true. The subtlety is to find an equilibrium we're ok with, because life cannot be perfect by definition. I know a lot of people that don't know how to compute a percentage making a recipe and laugh it off, I don't know how to draw or play an instrument and feel I have missed the point of living. I don't know, it's fine to be miserable on certain aspects if they're not what you think are important for you, but yeah for some people the standard is too high and we consider ourselves trapped for every little piece we miss.
I've met people that truly enjoy life and are also smart and sensitive. When I saw peacefulness and joy by their eyes, I realized I will never perceive true happiness. It's not something capable for me alone, I can only experience behind someone who's able to produce it for themselves. That's a life worth living.

It sounds like you were on one hell of a rollercoaster. I'm sorry it landed you back in the shit. Still- I don't think you should just throw the experience away as wasted. An amazing teacher once told us all that even difficult or unpleasant experiences were a learning curve. We may decide from them that we need to avoid that path in future.

You did figure out that maybe really looking at your underlying worries was maybe more important than trying to experience a bunch of highs. I suppose I tend to think- if we can figure out what we actually need at least- we may be better placed to actually focus and work towards it.

I am actually creative and I (just about) sustain myself doing it- so far. It's absolutely the best I could hope for. It's certainly better than other jobs I've done. But truthfully- it's not without issues.

It also requires so much of us. I made perhaps the foolish decision of putting all my eggs in that basket because for a long while, it felt like the only coping mechanism I would ever need. Now I'm at the weird stage where I think- even if I achieved everything I initially wanted, I don't think it would be enough. So, it's that really weird- even the best scenario won't be good enough. Not really sure where you go from there!

Have you tried drawing or playing an intrument? You may well have a natural talent for it but- if you don't, do you think you could do it for fun or, would you find it frustrating do you suppose?

I sort of think age is more of an issue if we make it one. Not in terms of everything of course. But, I've changed directions at all stages of life. It put me at a disadvantage each time but then- all were valuable experiences in their own way.

 

[BullsDon'tFly]

It sounds like you were on one hell of a rollercoaster. I'm sorry it landed you back in the shit. Still- I don't think you should just throw the experience away as wasted. An amazing teacher once told us all that even difficult or unpleasant experiences were a learning curve. We may decide from them that we need to avoid that path in future.

You did figure out that maybe really looking at your underlying worries was maybe more important than trying to experience a bunch of highs. I suppose I tend to think- if we can figure out what we actually need at least- we may be better placed to actually focus and work towards it.

I am actually creative and I (just about) sustain myself doing it- so far. It's absolutely the best I could hope for. It's certainly better than other jobs I've done. But truthfully- it's not without issues.

It also requires so much of us. I made perhaps the foolish decision of putting all my eggs in that basket because for a long while, it felt like the only coping mechanism I would ever need. Now I'm at the weird stage where I think- even if I achieved everything I initially wanted, I don't think it would be enough. So, it's that really weird- even the best scenario won't be good enough. Not really sure where you go from there!

Have you tried drawing or playing an intrument? You may well have a natural talent for it but- if you don't, do you think you could do it for fun or, would you find it frustrating do you suppose?

I sort of think age is more of an issue if we make it one. Not in terms of everything of course. But, I've changed directions at all stages of life. It put me at a disadvantage each time but then- all were valuable experiences in their own way.

Thank you for the kind words.

Yeah I know that every downfall should prelude to another rise, but it is still difficult to accept you're never going to be steady and capable of provide an equilibrium for yourself and people around you on your own, let out all the external problems everyone faces. If you don't believe in improving, you never will, and I found that, like every belief, it is a little fire that either you have or don't. I don't know how to describe it differently, sorry I'm not a native speaker.

I'm really glad for you that you can sustain yourself, by... being yourself! It's beautiful for people to watch others express. I would like to be able to do that but, even if I had the talent (I don't, can't draw or play anything), I don't think I would have nothing relevant to say. It's always about believing in oneself I guess.
That said, I'm not picturing an artist's life as heaven or perfect, but maybe a little more personal and free than ordinary collar jobs. That's why I miss my ex girlfriend so much, she was so crafty and creative, seemingly without effort, that she was able to create her own world. I really wish I had a similar gift. But if you say that even after "pursuing your dream" it's difficult to be at peace... man is there anything what would make us feel really satisfied?

Yeah also age is an issue. Trying new things at 16 is normal, give up everything and jump into the void at 30 is scary and if I think about it, it would be easy see it as having failed my previous journeys and having wasted so much time. It seems some things can't be moved from one's mind.