If I remember correctly I think GasMonkey created a thread just for ppl who want to post their end results. Not sure what it was called again. I am sure @tearsinrain remembers. But you can also post it here, I think here is where I will post mine. But it's all up to you.
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rigbone
Member
- Apr 7, 2024
- 28
Rigbone Setup
Building a Nitrogen SCBA in the U.S.
Building a Nitrogen SCBA in the U.S.
This post will focus on the parts of my setup that are U.S. specific, or where I had a deviation of any kind from GasMonkey's setup, which I used as the basis for my setup.
Most of the information I got from either this thread or the "Exit bag and inert gas megathread".
Many thank to @tearsinrain for past posts and for their answers to my questions.
Parts
- Nitrogen cylinder
- 80 cubic feet
- This is over 2000 liters of Nitrogen. Perhaps overkill but I wanted to play it safe.
- Water volume: 942 Cubic Inches - 15.4 ltrs
- 2200 psi
- Female CGA-580 connector
- Dräger PAS Lite – 2216 PSI - PN 4046190
- My vendor confirmed with Draeger that this model of PAS Lite uses positive-pressure.
- Female CGA-346 connector.
- Western Enterprises#830, PKGD: Adaptor CGA-580-346
- This adapter has a male CGA-580 to plug into the tank, and a male CGA-346 to plug into the PAS Lite.
- Dräger FPS 7000 P EPDM Mask - PN : (Small) R56249 ; (Medium) R56200 ; (Large) R56300
- I ordered the large size (R56300)
- The LDV on the PAS Lite plugs into this facemask
- Dräger 30-minute 2216 PSI Aluminum - PN 4054856 (OPTIONAL)
- This is an air cylinder that I plan on using for exit rehearsal.
- Male CGA-346 connector
- The PAS Lite connects to this tank directly (no adapter) as the pank and the PAS Lite both use CGA-346 connectors
- 1 1/8 in. wrench
- Used to secure the CGA-580 connection between the adapter and the cylinder.
All parts shown in front view. (4054856 - air tank not shown).
Cylinder connection (female CGA-580)
Western Enterprises#830, PKGD: Adaptor CGA-580-346
Cylinder, CGA-580/CGA-346, and 1st stage regulator of PAS Lite assembled.
Second stage regulator of PAS Lite (LDV) connected to Facemask (PN: R56300)
Pressure gauge coming from the 1st stage of PAS Lite
Attachments
Yooo your adapter looks completely different from mine. Thank goodness you posted your end result.
Edit: I see where I went wrong. I originally had the other PAS Lite model and naturally assumed that one end needed to be female. Now that I have the correct PAS Lite model it makes sense that both ends need to be male
. Question (1): how difficult was it to get the nitrogen tank? Did they ask any questions? Did you have a backup story ready?
Question (2): what purity is your nitrogen tank? And how did you make sure that it actually has the purity you wanted? I remember @GasMonkey used a tool to measure the purity.
Attachments
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rigbone
Member
- Apr 7, 2024
- 28
Yooo your adapter looks completely different from mine. Thank goodness you posted your end result.
Edit: I see where I went wrong. I originally had the other PAS Lite model and naturally assumed that one end needed to be female. Now that I have the correct PAS Lite model it makes sense that both ends need to be male
Question (1): how difficult was it to get the nitrogen tank? Did they ask any questions? Did you have a backup story ready?
Question (2): what purity is your nitrogen tank? And how did you make sure that it actually has the purity you wanted? I remember @GasMonkey used a tool to measure the purity.
- I actually had no questions at all.Idk if I can post names, but I can tell you it was the only nationwide vendor that would even talk to me.
- They had various grades of pure gasses. The research grade stuff was too expensive but they have an "Ultra High Purity" grade that is more reasonable and guarantees %99.999 purity.
I have purchased the same testing gear that GasMonkey has but didn't include that yet because I haven't yet figured out how to use it, and I ran out of pics I could upload. I can post an addendum here once I get a bead on using it. I'm moving a bit slow right now though. I had surgery today on one of the many failing joints in my body. If you search for "CY-12C" on youtube there are guides on how to use the device to test air from a cylinder. I am using these as my guide.
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rigbone
Member
- Apr 7, 2024
- 28
On my setup, There is always some gas being emitted. When it's on my face, it's just a slight flow, but if you take the mask off with the LDV still attached, you will get a gush if you don't press the button on the top of the LDV (blue in my case).
When the mask is on my face and I inhale the flow responds accordingly and rises to meet demand.
rigbone
Member
- Apr 7, 2024
- 28
As I start to setup the testing equipment, and was adjusting the flowrate so as not to damage the meter (will post), I just realized I'm not sure if I am supposed to open the nitrogen cylinder valve all the way or not when I execute the exit procedure. I remember reading about the bag method and that you should limit the flow rate coming from the tank, but as the SCBA gear is expecting a load of 2216psi, and will be handling the pressure to the mask, should I just open the valve on the nitrogen cylinder all the way?
I'm sure I just haven't found this in the forum yet, but my guess is that the nitrogen valve should be open all the way.
Oh I see, that makes sense.
I been waiting 4 weeks for the PAS Lite to arrive, is that approximately how long it took you to receive yours as well??
They said the PAS Lite is "made to order" and therefore needs at least 4 weeks, but I am starting to feel as if they are trying to scam me, that's why I wanted to see how long it took for you to get yours.
rigbone
Member
- Apr 7, 2024
- 28
The 4046190 (US version) came in less than a week. When I accidently ordered the 3358743 (European version), they said it would be 4-6 weeks.
I guess they have to special order the European version. Just make sure you ordered the US version.
Maybe it could be that they ran out of stock of the US version? Idk.
Edit: Looking back at GasMonkey's posts regarding the steps in the exit procedure, they don't specify a specific flow rate from the cylinder. So I would think that you open the cylinder valve all the way.
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rigbone
Member
- Apr 7, 2024
- 28
Addendum: Gas Testing
I already had an an Olsen CO2/Argon regulator/flow restrictor, so I jury rigged an ugly hack of tube adapters to connect to the CY-12C oxygen analyzer.
Here we see some 1/4in vinyl tubing coming from the 1/4in barb on the regulator. This goes into a 1/4in to 3/16 barb adapter, which then goes into some 3/16 vinyl tubing. You can see the regulator has a flow rate indicator and a knob to control the flow rate. After assuring a good seal between the regulator and the tank, and making sure the flow rate knob is all the way off, open up the tank valve all the way. If you have to pause this procedure, be sure to shut off the flow valve so you don't fill the room up with Nitrogen.
Next I calibrated the analyzer. I set it to 50% since I want to calibrate for the percentage of oxygen in breathable air from the room (21%). Give the bulb a few squeezes to bring some air over the sensor and twist the small dial to get as close to 21% as possible.
Now we hook up the line coming from the regulator and adjust the flow rate knob to about 5L/min. We can see that the analyzer bottoms out at 0.1% (the minimal resolution for the 50% setting). It may take a while to settle.
Now we switch the selector to 5%. This will give us a minimum resolution of 0.01%. Now we can see there is no more than 0.01% of oxygen in the line. Shut off the tank valve and let the line bleed before turning the flow rate knob back to 0. You should now safely be able to remove the regulator.
Attachments
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Georg
Experienced
- Feb 25, 2023
- 251
Does anybody from the active Users in this thread have a source for SCBA mask + LDV that ships to germany for me? Pls dm.
forced2live
Forced2live
- Aug 15, 2022
- 44
Can I come to your house and die using your equipment?
Please I want to come to your house and die using your equipment. I'll get my tourist visa and come to your location for quick and painless death
Please I want to come to your house and die using your equipment. I'll get my tourist visa and come to your location for quick and painless death
Hey @Tears in Rain and @rigbone, are you guys still around? Just checking in. If you are, I just want to say you guys have been amazing help, thank you so much.
I should be out within the next 3-4 weeks, still waiting on the adapter, it's 4 days past it's delivery date and was told those parts don't get ordered often, so longer than expected wait time. I am skipping the O2 tester completely, I figure so long as I make sure there is no leak I should be fine.
Hey @rigbone, where did you order your adapter from? I ask just in case the parts I ordered take even longer than they already do, perhaps your seller ships faster.
I should be out within the next 3-4 weeks, still waiting on the adapter, it's 4 days past it's delivery date and was told those parts don't get ordered often, so longer than expected wait time. I am skipping the O2 tester completely, I figure so long as I make sure there is no leak I should be fine.
Hey @rigbone, where did you order your adapter from? I ask just in case the parts I ordered take even longer than they already do, perhaps your seller ships faster.
rigbone
Member
- Apr 7, 2024
- 28
Howdy,
Yup still around. I haven't yet set a date to ctb. It's depending on how my health is doing in the coming year.
Your'e very welcome, but it was the dialog that you and @tearsinrain had that pointed me in the right direction, and filled in a lot of blanks for me. I greatly appreciate that.
I got my adapter from Amazon.
This is a scheduled message, yes, I am gone.
Quick notes:
1. Everything I did was the exact same as @rigbone, that's why I am not posting pics. I only skipped the O2 tester because I bought my tank from an industrial welding store, they sell 99.99% purity. Taking my chances, don't want to wait any longer.
2. Survival instinct is a bitch, but I figured if I do it right before something that gets me really mad, I am emotional enough to overcome SI. My plan is to gamble, I started it recently to see if it gets me really upset, and it does. Gambling is not the reason for CTB, it's just to overcome SI.
So, what's next? Here are a few scenarios:
(1) We are inside a matrix, the real versions of humanity is actually 1000 years (random number) more advanced, but we got so bored with life that we invented the matrix.
(2) There is no God and no Matrix, you are conscious because the Universe accidentally made it so. Which is depressing because it means it is likely you will be brought back after being done with this life. Remember, you STARTED from the supposed "non-existence", yet you are here, and you will supposedly go back to "non-existence" (the atheist view). Who is to ray the cycle doesn't repeat endlessly so long as the universe exists?
(3) There is either a loving God that exists outside the matrix where humanity and other life-forms are taken care of, and we humans asked God not to interfere in this Matrix as a way to see how well we do without God—Sinners get sent back to the matrix to avoid contaminating the real world (like Agent Smiths was able to enter the real world and cause trouble) and those who "succeed" (whatever that means) are allowed back to the real world (what an insane "game isn't it?). Or, God exists, but prefers "survival of the fittest", hence all the unnecessary suffering we see.
Lastly, thanks to @tearsinrain and @rigbone, you guys have been great help.
Quick notes:
1. Everything I did was the exact same as @rigbone, that's why I am not posting pics. I only skipped the O2 tester because I bought my tank from an industrial welding store, they sell 99.99% purity. Taking my chances, don't want to wait any longer.
2. Survival instinct is a bitch, but I figured if I do it right before something that gets me really mad, I am emotional enough to overcome SI. My plan is to gamble, I started it recently to see if it gets me really upset, and it does. Gambling is not the reason for CTB, it's just to overcome SI.
So, what's next? Here are a few scenarios:
(1) We are inside a matrix, the real versions of humanity is actually 1000 years (random number) more advanced, but we got so bored with life that we invented the matrix.
(2) There is no God and no Matrix, you are conscious because the Universe accidentally made it so. Which is depressing because it means it is likely you will be brought back after being done with this life. Remember, you STARTED from the supposed "non-existence", yet you are here, and you will supposedly go back to "non-existence" (the atheist view). Who is to ray the cycle doesn't repeat endlessly so long as the universe exists?
(3) There is either a loving God that exists outside the matrix where humanity and other life-forms are taken care of, and we humans asked God not to interfere in this Matrix as a way to see how well we do without God—Sinners get sent back to the matrix to avoid contaminating the real world (like Agent Smiths was able to enter the real world and cause trouble) and those who "succeed" (whatever that means) are allowed back to the real world (what an insane "game isn't it?). Or, God exists, but prefers "survival of the fittest", hence all the unnecessary suffering we see.
Lastly, thanks to @tearsinrain and @rigbone, you guys have been great help.
This is a scheduled message, yes, I am gone.
Quick notes:
1. Everything I did was the exact same as @rigbone, that's why I am not posting pics. I only skipped the O2 tester because I bought my tank from an industrial welding store, they sell 99.99% purity. Taking my chances, don't want to wait any longer.
2. Survival instinct is a bitch, but I figured if I do it right before something that gets me really mad, I am emotional enough to overcome SI. My plan is to gamble, I started it recently to see if it gets me really upset, and it does. Gambling is not the reason for CTB, it's just to overcome SI.
Lastly, thanks to @tearsinrain and @rigbone, you guys have been great help.
Quick notes:
1. Everything I did was the exact same as @rigbone, that's why I am not posting pics. I only skipped the O2 tester because I bought my tank from an industrial welding store, they sell 99.99% purity. Taking my chances, don't want to wait any longer.
2. Survival instinct is a bitch, but I figured if I do it right before something that gets me really mad, I am emotional enough to overcome SI. My plan is to gamble, I started it recently to see if it gets me really upset, and it does. Gambling is not the reason for CTB, it's just to overcome SI.
Lastly, thanks to @tearsinrain and @rigbone, you guys have been great help.
Kawaii_Shoujo215
Eternal Torment of Thy Flesh-Prison
- Jul 27, 2022
- 30
Hey guys, I have a question regarding testing a SCBA set-up with a breathing air cylinder, as was suggested by some users here. (I live in EU)
The source of gas I am using has an option for compressed air ("Druckluft/Pressluft"), but I am unsure if this is the kind that can safely be used for SCBA/SCUBA, or if SCBA/SCUBA requires the gas to be purified of potential contaminants that otherwise wouldn't be a problem (if you weren't breathing it in). After all, I don't want to risk getting compressed air meant for cleaning or for power tools into my lungs and causing damage/cancer/other problems.
Any advice? Thanks in advance.
The source of gas I am using has an option for compressed air ("Druckluft/Pressluft"), but I am unsure if this is the kind that can safely be used for SCBA/SCUBA, or if SCBA/SCUBA requires the gas to be purified of potential contaminants that otherwise wouldn't be a problem (if you weren't breathing it in). After all, I don't want to risk getting compressed air meant for cleaning or for power tools into my lungs and causing damage/cancer/other problems.
Any advice? Thanks in advance.
Looking at masks on the E site in US to try and save money and because no one has small in stock. This is FPS SCBA 7000 but has holes at the bottom. Is that to let additional oxygen in? It's about half the price as the one rigbone has. Is this inferior and unusable for CTB purposes? I'm still trying to figure all this out. @rigbone @Tears in Rain. Thanks!!
Attachments
@devils~advocate @rigbone or anyone else....some questions about what pphinquiry has written.....
1)Any tips on the straps for these masks?
2) He discussed the demand valve and learning that. Is the point of this just to learn how to prefill the mask? What information/experience is needed for the demand valve?
3) Why would a Q/80 cu ft tank be needed? Just to get the height correct? Would a 40 cu tank be sufficient if you have a low chair. Just a bit confused by this....He originally talked about using pigtails but ditched those and got the larger tank. Any insight?
devils~advocate
Member
- Feb 29, 2024
- 58
1) I'd say loosen the straps a good bit...put the mask on, then pull the straps tight. That video by the mask manufacturer, shows how they recommend donning the mask. Chin first, pull on straps, etc. I'd say practice with it, to get the feel.
2) Yeah I think the post is referring to prefilling the regulator and hose line up to the demand valve. That demand valve is the part that fits into the mask port (plugs in). They come with a button that locks & won't let air/gas thru. In its intended use (fire fighting) its so one doesnt waste air while not wearing the mask etc. Practice with it as well.....put on the mask...insert the demand valve (dont attach to tank)....you'll be able to breathe thru it. If it doesnt allow you to breathe thru it, press that lock button (big red one).
3) 80cf is just redundant...its like packing a weeks worth of clothes just for a weekend vacation. Some posters (gas monkey I think) have said that 40cf would work.
These masks & ldv valves let in quite a bit of air (or gas) per inhale breathe. Normal breathes are about 10-15 times per minute.
The air cylinder tanks (for fire fighting) that usually are used in this system are about 4 or 6 L in size. They last for 30-40 minutes. This is about the size of a 40cf cylinder. A 6L cylinder holds about 1600L of air...which is about 57cf...it lasts for 41 minutes (according to manuf website data)
For this scba method, this amount of time is not needed. I think only 5 minutes is needed.
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Kapsyl
Experienced
- Feb 3, 2024
- 293
What I've been taught is to adjust the top straps first once on your head then lastly the two bottom ones. You can then tighten the straps more but it should be sufficiently secured now.
Something worth mentioning is that you have to be clean shaven to use a full face mask, no beard or stubble all trough a mustache is acceptable. If you have a moisturizer you could apply before putting the mask on, it should work without it but something to consider.
If you have long hair it could be cumbersome to put on the mask, especially in a hurry. Remember the clock is ticking as soon as you begin breathe the nitrogen so either you put on the mask quickly or use the quick release coupling, if so then time doesn't matter.
With my first attempt I just shaved off all my hair on the scheduled day. This is probably not necessary but it was a lot easier to quickly put on the mask without hair.
I was under the impression that it took about 35-40 minutes total?
Thank you. Unfortunately, I have hair as I am a woman. No facial hair though. It would be really hard for me to shave my head psychologically but I may be able to manage it .... once I do it, though, I have to be completely committed. So with SCBA, my understanding is that you get the mask on and situated, THEN you insert the LDV, hold your breath, fill the mask with gas, and then finally start to breathe it. God, I hate all this. I just want to flipping drink some pentobarbital.
Kapsyl
Experienced
- Feb 3, 2024
- 293
Even though scuba is a completely closed system, 10-12 min is still required to become completely brain dead. You should expect around that timeframe to ctb with scuba. I wouldn't worry that much about the amount, if the nitrogen should run out you still suffocate the "ordinary" way whilst being complete unconscious.
If you can put on the mask without the LDV shaving is not necessary. I can understand that shaving would be very hard for you, a lot easier for me since I already have very short hair. It would also be a no turning back now moment, which could be problematic if you should reconsider the act of ctb.
devils~advocate
Member
- Feb 29, 2024
- 58
You mean 35-40 minutes for ctb? No it should only take a few minutes..15 minutes at the most.
Yes the sequence you describe would work. But the mask wouldnt fill with gas until you start breathing.
That LDV is like a smart valve. It opens & allows gas to flow thru ONLY when you breathe in. Thats the beauty of a scba system.
It only lets gas thru when you want it (by inhaling). It doesnt waste the gas. The mask has ports in it that only allow exhale to go thru.
So the scba system is basically a set of one way valves...LDV being the inhale...and the mask ports allowing exhale only.
No waste, which is the point of what they were made for....fire fighting. It allows them to use an air tank efficiently & do what they need to do for at least 30 minutes.
The hood method on the other hand just has a hose placed under the hood where the gas flows continuously.
Thats the reason the hood method needs a lot of gas (in my opinion)
For hair, maybe use a scuba hood. You can find them on 'A' for sale.
I know this sounds complicated. But its manageable. Once you see all the parts put together and how it works.....its simple when you think about it.
The magic (in my opinion) is that LDV valve. It doesnt waste any gas & only gives it to you when you ask for it.
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Yes. Exactly. No turning back....My concern is getting a good seal with the mask. Do you think it would be a problem. It should technically be sitting on the face anyway. Unfortunately, I can't get a size small mask but only a medium and if it sits at the hair line, that could impact the seal. I'm not a large woman... only 120 lb now...sigh.
Ok. Thanks. That's a decent thought, although the SCBA masks appear to sit at that line the scuba hood does so it may keep it from having a seal. My understanding from some of the other's postings, gasmonkey, is that you prefill the mask manually, maybe before you get the ldv completely attached? Still learning....
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Kapsyl
Experienced
- Feb 3, 2024
- 293
One simple way of trying before is to put on the mask and try breathing without any nitrogen flowing. On gas mask it's instructed that you perform a vacuum test by simply putting your hand over the filter and thus hindering air getting in. The mask is then kinda sucked into your face because of vacuum and any significant leaks will be apparent. If you then feel suffocated and a vacuum is formed the test is successful, something similar should be doable on the scuba mask.
albstr1403
I’m tired
- May 25, 2024
- 78
Hi,
Thanks so much for putting this together.
I was cross referencing a vendor's product against your pics, and noticed that the first stage regulator of the PAS lite look different. Is this just a vendor/marketing quirk? I can't find any PAS lite of the same model available that looks like yours.
Also, besides using a wrench to secure the CGA-580 connection, was there really no other technical work to be done? Does everything else just click into place?
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devils~advocate
Member
- Feb 29, 2024
- 58
From what I understand, this vendor is using the same photos for all the listing regardless of the model.
I wrote to the vendor to confirm the connection type for this first stage regulator, but they just won't seem to respond back.
Rigbone can confirm, but i think the model number is 4046190. Its the US version.
Also be aware the mask is a separate purchase. There appears to be 2 models shown. The 'P' variety is the one to use.
The 'RA' is a negative pressure one & screws into the mask.
(PM me if you more questions & for more vendor discussion)
nevermeant2b
Member
- Sep 11, 2023
- 36
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