Discussion Why is there so much non-methods shown in media if it's false?

[CatAstro.Fee]

Just came in my mind because I learned alot from megathreads here and I'm just confused why if many common methods you see doesn't work, why it's shown so much in books, movies, ect?

Main example is overdose.

I can understand people don't want others to actually cbt, so they make up scenarios, but it can also lead to people getting permanent issues from trying non-methods...I don't get it.

It also just makes the general population a little oblivious to the facts surrounding it, mainly paranoid oldheads, the kind that think everyone on the internet is dangerous and can hack you.

Thoughts?

 

[amor.dor]

It also depends on the collective idea of what CTB methods are. For example, the use of a powerful sleeping pill is very romanticized by people. It made sense in the past when people took barbiturates and sometimes died accidentally due to the potency of the drug, but nowadays benzos are on the market and are very safe and were made to replace barbiturates.
Of course, society will not provide any form of clean death, since they don't even mention suicide in the news. Talking about suicide is like opening Pandora's box.

 

[Captive_Mind515]

Back in the past, overdoses were more reliable. Drugs are now made safe from that type of abuse. In Marilyn Monroe's era, she took an overdose of yellow jackets (and other stuff) which was basically Nembutal in pill form. It was a very common over the counter drug, and so it became popular to OD on painkillers. That's what I've read anyway.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

imo they show these non-methods as working on purpose for those reasons cause they don't work and they don't care if it permanently damages someone as long as they remain alive.

also to create the lies that 1. suicide is easy 2. suicide is impulsive

we've all seen these scenes in movies. a person has some distressing event. then they immediately go the bathroom open up the medicine cabinet down a bottle of pills and die . then you see everyone their family friends crying.

this is to create the belief in the population that suicide is always impulsive and easy so that government then must do massive efforts to prevent this trajedy called suicide . why? cause after seeing this scene repeatedly that;s what gets programmed in the subconsciuos mind that suicide is a trajedy because it's always impulsive and so easy.... so that government then has to crack down on everything to prevent this trajedy : so imo this is why people accept it's ok to ban Nembutal , and put people in hospitals if they even say they want to suicide.

and i'm just going off memory . i haven't seen movies in many years but i bet they are still showing the same bs

imo this implants the belief in the population that suicide is easy and always impulsive. where does this come from?

much more to this . also other scenes why people believe suicidal people are mentally ill.

on this forum most know these are lies. 1. suicide is very difficult not easy. 2. suicide can be rational and can happen after many years of suffering and thinking about it's not always impulsive. 3. all suicidal people are not mentally ill

 

[orvreader]

They don't care about causing permanent issues from improper techniques, they just think breathing > not breathing. That's why they want to close off resources like this site, why would you think they care about anything other than ""death prevention"" numbers?

 

[amor.dor]

imo they show these non-methods as working on purpose for those reasons cause they don't work and they don't care if it permanently damages someone.

also to create the lies that 1. suicide is easy 2. suicide is impulsive

we've all seen these scenes in movies. a person has some distressing event. then they go the bathroom open up the medicine cabinet down a bottle of pills and die .

and i'm just going off memory . i haven't seen movies in many years but i bet they are still showing the same bs

imo this implants the belief in the population that suicide is easy. where does this come from?

After all, from their point of view, a person is someone who can generate income, even someone with health issues because they spend money on medicine and hospital bills. A dead person, on the other hand, only generates funeral costs.

 

[paperwork]

I think it's to prevent actually effective methods from being spread via media. Then again there are a lot of examples of an actually effective method (hanging), so I couldn't tell you. Maybe it's just the first methods that come to mind?

 

[Dejected 55]

A lot of fiction gets stuff wrong either for laziness, poor writing, or sometimes purposefully because they don't want to show a way to really do it.

Also, you could just as well ask "If people can't fly, why are there so many movies where people fly?" or "If magic isn't real, why are there so many movies about magic?"

Fiction is fiction... often based on real things and then exaggerated for entertainment effect.

 

[itsgone2]

Visually easier on the viewer? A body in a bed vs hanging or gsw? Seems easier anyway

 

[Spicy Tteokbokki]

As someone who has made short films in the past, it's very simple and easy to send the message of suicide if you showcase things such as hanging or pills, not to mention real cheap as you likely have the props at hand already, but it is indeed lazy if you just copy-paste previously shown methods without thinking about it much more than that.
I do get happy when movies/shows do actually put in some effort into proper suicide methods, though, especially when people are doing suicide by guns.

 

[vitbar]

Just came in my mind because I learned alot from megathreads here and I'm just confused why if many common methods you see doesn't work, why it's shown so much in books, movies, ect?

Main example is overdose.

ODing used to be more accessible. Lots of modern drugs are safer alternatives to older ones. Before benzos they prescribed barbiturates.

Using carbon monoxide generated by a car has also been made more difficult by modern engine design.

Putting your head in the oven stopped working because we moved from coal gas to natural gas.

I don't think the motive has been to prevent suicide specifically. Safety more broadly, and economics drove it. Depictions in fiction are going to lean on cliches, which are based on historical events, and on dramatic or poetic methods. People have died all sorts of unlikely ways, and authors will have come across examples of some.

 

[CatAstro.Fee]

Depictions in fiction are going to lean on cliches, which are based on historical events, and on dramatic or poetic methods. People have died all sorts of unlikely ways, and authors will have come across examples of some.

Very true, I think of Romeo and Juliet or the book 'Maus'. I want to look into it more, and compare what type of ctb is shown depending on the time. Intriguing for sure.

 

[JesiBel]

I think its purpose is to achieve poetry and drama to move the viewer, to make a tragic scene as aesthetic and memorable as possible.

If they showed a scene that was too realistic and raw, it would disturb most people. And like any industry, it needs something to be socially "acceptable" in order to make money.

Perhaps it is also not "moral or right" to teach viewers how to commit actual suicide.

Fiction is just entertainment; it shouldn't be mixed with the real world.

It would be very beautiful if they found our corpses immaculate and aesthetically pleasing, as if we were sleeping. But death is always ugly and shocking.

 

[Forveleth]

Because TV and movies are made to be visually or emotionally appealing and not truthful. The goal of each of those is to either tell us a story or make money. Truth and accuracy are very far down the list.

The bigger question I am always curious about is why people take what they see in TV and movies as truth.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've wondered this too. I think mainly because it serves the plot line better. Say they've decided they want rid of a certain character. Do they really then want to describe how they had 4 failed attempts before it worked? That they had to scour the internet for random chemicals and go through a welfare check, maybe a psyche ward stay?

I imagine it serves the plot line more often that things are so bad in that moment, they decide to do it and succeed with some simple method. After all- most media pieces aren't focussed on the action of suicide. It may not be the central character that suicides either. So- they're probably more focussed on telling a story- rather than the practicalities.

Plus- they don't want to be accused of actually informing the general public about some more obscure method. How many outside of those who either go looking or have been affected by a suicide would know about SN or helium say? Not that either are so easy to get hold of.

Visually too- do thry really want to film someone put a bag over their head? That's likely kind of horrific for general audiences. Surely better they take a few pills, lie down and go to sleep.

They may also be using it to describe the person's character. That they were impulsive maybe, dramatic or, weak even. By making such a risky action appear easy and calm- I suppose that just helps that description.

Plus- say it's assisted suicide. Say they want to paint it in a compassionate light. They'll want to make the death appear easy and peaceful so it paints the other person in a good light. If it showed the person vomiting, groaning and convulsing- we'd be thinking- shit- they probably shouldn't have done that. Well intentioned or not. Same goes for a self inflicted suicide. Do they really want to film a realistic death process? They likely want something sanitized for general viewing.

I've even seen series in which a homicide is suggested. Spoiler here: 'One Foot in the Grave' ends with the protagonist being killed in a hit and run accident. The wife of the victim figures out who the guilty person is. The programme ends with her visiting her and taking tea with her and you see her staring at a box of paracetamol I think it was. Presumably, we're to imagine she either did or at least considered poisoning her. But then- I'm just sitting there thinking- that's so unlikely to work!

I do agree though. I think it's almost irresponsible in a way- to make it look so easy. Maybe it does suggest to some people that an overdose with over the counter medication will work. When it seems more likely it won't. It also adds to the public perception that suicide is some easy, care free choice. So, it adds to this idea that it's easy and cowardly.

When, it's all bollocks. It's an incredibly serious choice. I doubt many people at all make the decision flippantly. Plus- I suppose- by suggesting we do in fact have methods that are painless and easy- there's no pressure to actually legalise assisted suicids and provide methods that in fact are those things.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Because TV and movies are made to be visually or emotionally appealing and not truthful. The goal of each of those is to either tell us to worry or make money. Truth and accuracy are very far down the list.

The bigger question I am always curious about is why people take what they see in TV and movies as truth.

"The bigger question I am always curious about is why people take what they see in TV and movies as truth."

Because imo no one has ever shown another scene that contradicts what they see in movies and TV shows. For example I've never seen a scene that shows suicide can be rational because the extremely horrorible things that can happen to any human far outweigh the meaningless fleeting "enjoyable" garbage they repeatedly show as being so good. That's where people get their truth movies TV and recently social media too but social media people parrot what they've seen in movies too

 

[Forveleth]

"The bigger question I am always curious about is why people take what they see in TV and movies as truth."

Because imo no one has ever shown another scene that contradicts what they see in movies and tv.

But why are you relying on a scene on TV to show you facts instead of doing research? 90% of TV is fiction. Why would you think that anything portrayed on TV/movies/social medua is close to factually accurate/reality?

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

But why are you relying on a scene on TV to show you facts instead of doing research? 90% of TV is fiction. Why would you think that anything portrayed on TV/movies/social medua is close to factually accurate/reality?

The brain accepts anything as fact if it is repeated often enough and repeated enough times

 

[Dejected 55]

The brain accepts anything as fact if it is repeated often enough and repeated enough times

But it shouldn't. Do you watch cartoons enough time and start believing cartoons are real? Does watching super-hero movies repeatedly make you think people fly and have powers?

I'm not talking about people with genuine learning disabilities and conditions that make discerning fiction from reality difficult. But your average human being ought to be able to do a better job at not assigning fact to things they see in movies. I allow for people to be misled a little by news programs that lie to us... that can be trickier since you're watching a program that advertises itself as truth... but nobody should be taking absolute fact from any fictional representation, even stories that are based on some factual events.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

But it shouldn't. Do you watch cartoons enough time and start believing cartoons are real? Does watching super-hero movies repeatedly make you think people fly and have powers?

I'm not talking about people with genuine learning disabilities and conditions that make discerning fiction from reality difficult. But your average human being ought to be able to do a better job at not assigning fact to things they see in movies. I allow for people to be misled a little by news programs that lie to us... that can be trickier since you're watching a program that advertises itself as truth... but nobody should be taking absolute fact from any fictional representation, even stories that are based on some factual events.

so where do all these thousands of false beliefs humans hold originate from?

i just talked about a few false beliefs here on this thread about suicide, most humans believe that suicide is always impulsive , suicide cannot be rational , suicide is sign of mental illness must be mentally ill to want to suicide, suicide is easy . and i showed scenes in movies how that provide the imagery for these beliefs. i think the opposite is true suicide is very difficult , suicide can be rational, suicide is not always due to mental illness.

there have to be countless false beliefs because humans hold different opposing beliefs for example on the afterlife : so someone is wrong. some believe there is no afterlife as i do.

do most humans even act like they fully understand that they and all of us will die ? i don;'t think so . but this is the most fundamental fact. so imo most humans are acting in a false belief a denial of Death,.

this is just evidence and analysis from just a few neuroscientists and others that show the brain believes whatever is shown whether it's true or not and of course more so if it is repeated:

the following from an ai:

Evidence from psychology, biology, and early 20th-century metaphysics suggests that the subconscious mind (or System 1) operates on a principle where it accepts sensory and imaginal input as reality without logical filter.


1. Daniel Kahneman: "What You See Is All There Is" (WYSIATI) [1]
In Thinking, Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman describes System 1 as the brain's fast, automatic, and intuitive mode that constructs a coherent story based on available information, regardless of its completeness.

• Belief by Default: Kahneman posits that System 1 is incapable of doubt; it simply accepts impressions as they appear. Doubt and disbelief are functions of the slower, more deliberate System 2.
• The WYSIATI Principle: This acronym ("What You See Is All There Is") describes how System 1 jumps to conclusions based on the limited information it "sees" or perceives, treating it as the absolute truth. [1, 2, 3, 4]

2. Bruce Lipton: The Biology of Belief
Cell biologist Bruce Lipton argues that the subconscious mind is like a "tape recorder" that plays back programs and perceptions without questioning their validity.

• Perception Over Reality: Lipton's work in epigenetics suggests that cells respond to the perception of the environment rather than the actual environment.
• Biological Response: The brain does not distinguish between a real threat and a perceived or imagined one; for example, replaying a negative memory or worry causes the body to release real stress hormones (like cortisol) as if the event were happening in the present. [5, 6]

3. Neville Goddard: Imagination as Fact
Neville Goddard's teachings, while metaphysical, align with these modern psychological concepts by asserting that the subconscious mind accepts any concept "felt" to be true, regardless of external evidence.

• Impressing the Subconscious: Goddard taught that because the subconscious cannot distinguish between a physical fact and a vividly imagined state, one can "impress" a new reality onto it through sensory-vivid imagination.
• Ignoring the 3D: He encouraged "brazen impudence," or the act of persisting in an imagined state while ignoring contradictory evidence from the external physical world (the "3D"). [8, 9]

4. Supporting Neuroscience
Neuroscientists have further demonstrated that the brain processes mental imagery and actual perception using many of the same neural circuits.

• Mental Rehearsal: Studies have shown that "seeing" an action in the mind (visualization) can trigger the same muscle growth and neural strengthening as physical practice because the subconscious brain treats the imaginal act as a real experience.
• System 1 as Perceptual System: Modern neuroscience identifies System 1 as a fast perceptual system that interprets sensory input reflexively, meaning it "believes" what it sees before the conscious mind can analyze it. [10, 11, 12]

[1] https://neurofied.com/thinking-fast-slow-down-system-1-and-2/
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow
[3] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/kahneman-excerpt-thinking-fast-and-slow/
[4] https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/philosophy/system-1-and-system-2-thinking
[6] https://www.dewerff.net/en/bruce-lipton-and-psych-k/
[7] https://www.shortform.com/books/blog/neville-goddard-subconscious-mind.html

[12] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3653224/

 

[TAW122]

I think @Forever Sleep summarized it up pretty well. From an media and entertainment standpoint, especially when it comes to the plot, storyline, or character development, they are trying to convey the story itself, so they would not really consider all the realities. Additionally, and I've heard this reasoning by some people, which is that in movies and shows, they want to show the 'exciting' part, so they do whatever it is to give in to the gimmick, whether it is scientifically true or not. I do agree that it does paint an inaccurate reality on the efficacy of such methods, especially in media and Hollywood (US), when it comes to method choice. Even when it comes to firearms, which is indeed VERY effective, but ONLY when it is done properly, whereas doing so incorrectly (pointing under the chin, for instance) results in a higher chance of failure and also permanent damage, vegetative state but still sentient (worse than death).

Anyways, I think upon doing my own research, especially on SaSu and even some other sources about method efficacy, I've arrived at the conclusion that the reality of methods versus what is portrayed in media is vastly different and for media and entertainment, they want to exaggerate things, whether it is in line with reality or not. Ultimately, when it comes to method efficacy, never base things off strictly on media or take it at face value and also do one's own research carefully.

 

[Dejected 55]

so where do all these thousands of false beliefs humans hold originate from?

i just talked about a few false beliefs here on this thread about suicide, most humans believe that suicide is always impulsive , suicide cannot be rational , suicide is sign of mental illness must be mentally ill to want to suicide, suicide is easy . and i showed scenes in movies how that provide the imagery for these beliefs. i think the opposite is true suicide is very difficult , suicide can be rational, suicide is not always due to mental illness.

there have to be countless false beliefs because humans hold different opposing beliefs for example on the afterlife : so someone is wrong. some believe there is no afterlife as i do.

do most humans even act like they fully understand that they and all of us will die ? i don;'t think so . but this is the most fundamental fact. so imo most humans are acting in a false belief a denial of Death,.

this is just evidence and analysis from just a few neuroscientists and others that show the brain believes whatever is shown whether it's true or not and of course more so if it is repeated:

the following from an ai:

Evidence from psychology, biology, and early 20th-century metaphysics suggests that the subconscious mind (or System 1) operates on a principle where it accepts sensory and imaginal input as reality without logical filter.

I never said people cannot be manipulated or that there aren't a lot of stupid people or that people do allow themselves to be tricked. I just said that nobody should be watching fictional programming and assuming it is representative of reality just because it is on their TV. You really shouldn't assume news programs always tell the truth these days... but to your examples.

By the logic you are suggesting... then it should be easy to convince suicidal people not to kill themselves by repeatedly showing them happy TV programs that show how happy people are... right? But we know that doesn't work, don't we? I mean, if it did, then there would be no suicides because people would just say "stop being depressed" and park them in front of cheery programs until they believe they are happy because they saw it on TV.

A lot more people than would like to admit are just stupid. It really is that simple. And you can't guess what stupid will do... because it's stupid. I can't sugarcoat it. I don't want to insult people here... but if all it takes to convince you something is true is to watch a few movies over and over that are clearly fictional creations and then you believe everything you saw... you're going to be in for a rough ride in life.

 

[InevitableDeath]

But it shouldn't. Do you watch cartoons enough time and start believing cartoons are real? Does watching super-hero movies repeatedly make you think people fly and have powers?

I'm not talking about people with genuine learning disabilities and conditions that make discerning fiction from reality difficult. But your average human being ought to be able to do a better job at not assigning fact to things they see in movies. I allow for people to be misled a little by news programs that lie to us... that can be trickier since you're watching a program that advertises itself as truth... but nobody should be taking absolute fact from any fictional representation, even stories that are based on some factual events.

most people are ridiculous. They all love to live in their perfect bubbles of selfishness and never look at the reality of death or humanity or social and economic systems.

They need the fantasies of fiction, film and tv.

This is why you will be exiled if you talk about depression or genocide or why the fuck they're voting anything or, or, or....

 

[Tautochrome]

I never said people cannot be manipulated or that there aren't a lot of stupid people or that people do allow themselves to be tricked. I just said that nobody should be watching fictional programming and assuming it is representative of reality just because it is on their TV. You really shouldn't assume news programs always tell the truth these days... but to your examples.

By the logic you are suggesting... then it should be easy to convince suicidal people not to kill themselves by repeatedly showing them happy TV programs that show how happy people are... right? But we know that doesn't work, don't we? I mean, if it did, then there would be no suicides because people would just say "stop being depressed" and park them in front of cheery programs until they believe they are happy because they saw it on TV.

A lot more people than would like to admit are just stupid. It really is that simple. And you can't guess what stupid will do... because it's stupid. I can't sugarcoat it. I don't want to insult people here... but if all it takes to convince you something is true is to watch a few movies over and over that are clearly fictional creations and then you believe everything you saw... you're going to be in for a rough ride in life.

They don't do research and instead accept things as they are presented to them because they usually don't care about this particular aspect of whatever media they're consuming. They focus on the plot, the consequences of an action, not the technicalties, and everything else the brain absorbs and processes subconsciously, sometimes leading to this shallow, misinformed type of understanding. Hard to blame them, honestly, why would they be expected to doubt and cross-check every single thing they see on the screen if the situations presented are mostly realistic

 

[Dejected 55]

They don't do research and instead accept things as they are presented to them because they usually don't care about this particular aspect of whatever media they're consuming. They focus on the plot, the consequences of an action, not the technicalties, and everything else the brain absorbs and processes subconsciously, sometimes leading to this shallow, misinformed type of understanding. Hard to blame them, honestly, why would they be expected to doubt and cross-check every single thing they see on the screen if the situations presented are mostly realistic

I think there are certainly people who take information presented to them as informative/educational/news at face-value without questioning... and these days that can be bad. But, there seems to also be a sadly high number of people who are taking "facts" from fictional programming... as in, watching their favorite police drama and thinking that is how police and the legal system works. Sometimes TV shows get things right, but more often than not they exaggerate for entertainment.

What is confounding me is not so much the people getting misled by bad actors giving them wrong or misleading information under the guise of being a journalist or a factual news program... but the number of people who watch clearly fictional programming and somehow think those are "teaching" them all the facts that they don't need to look elsewhere. That is scary to me!