why do women who prefer short men seem to not exist?

[NaturalBornNEET]

and I don't mean tolerate, but actually prefer short over tall. There are many guys who prefer overweight women for example, and a wide variety of body types on women.

I know this is an incel-coded thread and controversial but idc, first bout of manlet-rage I've felt for months after successfully avoiding tiktok rot from showing up in any of my doomscrolling but some leaked through the cracks just now and I'm ashamed with myself at how viscerally I reacted to it and I'm still riding off the rage-despair to make this impulsive futile post to seethe and let everyone know how so-not-happy I am with the structure of nature and this demiurge-run hellscape because that's going to do what exactly?

I don't want a gf or sex, I want a gf that genuinely adores me instead of settling for me, and all I've learnt to believe is that will simply never happen at this POV, ergo death it is because my body is a fucking greedy spastic slave that refuses to stop fucking torturing me over not having intimacy with my biological counterpart and I really wonder if this is a uniquely personal problem or if this is just how any biological male would react in my circumstances. Why do I have to have this unshakeable feeling that salvation is only achievable through a woman? I want to rip my fucking jaw off.

Oh guess I should add I'm like 5'3, in the west, so when I say I'm short I mean short, not like those guys who sulk over being 5'10

 

[lifeisadream]

Sadly, there's so much on social media & on tv about so called "perfect" people & what we "should" look like.

Some people are fickle & can't see a person beyond physical attributes. That's on them.

It's ok to have a rage filled rant about it. My opinion would be if someone can't see past your height, they're not worth it. You're so much more than just how tall you are.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

I had a BF for 8 years 3 inches shorter than me. He has a new GF that is even taller!

 

[badkarma4618]

sorry if my input is useless here since i am a girl, but i just wanted to say i understand the kind of frustration you are feeling and how heavy it must be to carry all that. you mentioned how some people fetishize overweight women, and yeah, there are definitely fetishes for short guys too, but real love goes so far beyond that. love is not about checking boxes or being someones type. it is about being seen and cherished for who you are.

you said you are 5'3 and that it feels like a problem, but honestly, it is not. i have dated men shorter than that and loved them just as deeply as someone who was 6 foot. the right person will not care about height or body shape. they will care about how you think, how you love, how you make them feel.

i know it can feel like the world is against you, like nature itself is cruel, but the kind of connection you are looking for is still possible. it might not come easy, and it might not come soon, but that does not mean it will never come.

you deserve that kind of love. something honest. something that sees all of you and stays.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Ignore this if you aren't looking for comments from women, but I actually deeply relate to your suffering. I've had this exact same train of thoughts but in reverse, especially this line: "I want a gf that genuinely adores me instead of settling for me, and all I've learnt to believe is that will simply never happen at this POV, ergo death it is because my body is a fucking greedy spastic slave that refuses to stop fucking torturing me over not having intimacy with my biological counterpart." Something like this also repeats in my head over and over everyday.

I have often thought of CTB as the only way to free me from my slavery to this body that won't stop trying to get me partnered up no matter how much pain it causes me. I have often thought about how I have no chance with men because all they care about is looks and I don't meet their standards, but there are thousands of girls who do (and who have good personalities, to boot), so there is no reason why they would ever choose me over them. And even if one did choose me, it'd solely be for sex, he wouldn't actually be attracted to me and would probably be fantasizing about other girls even while touching me; I could never live up to his perfect porn stars.

None of this is to discount your pain; height preference is a real thing. It's just to show that our perception of the other sex is often skewed because we only ever get to see our own side. I'm sure you would disagree with much of what I just said about men, just as I disagree about your perception of women's preferences due to my own lived experience as a woman who genuinely does tend to prefer shorter men. The only man who I have ever been viscerally, magnetically attracted to was maybe a hair taller than me, and I'm 5'3. And no, he didn't have money, I was far richer than him. Nor was he fit, nor did he have a conventionally handsome face. If we had gotten together, it certainly would not have been me settling for him, but rather me choosing him, because I had eyes for no one else, I only wanted him.

 

[gothbird]

Hey look, I can see you're hurting, but I also need to be honest with you.

First off, I'm a woman who does prefer short men. I'm not saying that to humour you, it's a legitimate preference. I've dated men under 5'5", and I've felt deeply attracted to them. Not in spite of their height, but because of it and the many other things they offer. Same with larger bodied men. Fat guys? Love them. A thick waist and soft belly is often more comforting and attractive to me than abs will ever be. You're not unlovable. You're not even rare.

The problem isn't your height. It's the lens you're viewing yourself and the world through. You're stuck in a loop of red pill, incel content that tells you you're doomed and worthless, and it's lying to you. It's engineered to stoke your pain, keep you hooked, and sell you either rage or "solutions" that never work. If you're consuming that stuff regularly—TikTok, Reddit, algorithmic black holes—stop. Seriously. Log out. Block it. Even a few weeks away can be enough to start clearing that fog.

You said, "I want a gf that genuinely adores me instead of settling." That's understandable. We all want to be loved for who we are. But adoration isn't some guaranteed reward for suffering or feeling broken. It's something that happens when you let yourself be seen, not as a victim or a fixer upper, but as a person who brings something of value to the world even if it's weird or nerdy or unique.

But here's the part that really needs to be challenged: "Why do I have this unshakeable feeling that salvation is only achievable through a woman?" The honest answer? You've probably been raised in a culture (and fed by porn, movies, and red pill narratives) that told you women are the ultimate goal. The finish line. The trophy. But we're not. We're people. We're messy and imperfect and full of contradictions, and we're not here to save you. That's your job.

Being porn brained is something a lot of guys don't even realise they are. If your expectations of intimacy are shaped more by fantasy than reality like constant sex, unconditional worship, total emotional healing, then of course you feel like it's impossible to attain. You're chasing something no human can provide. Stepping away from porn for a while etc., detoxing from incel input, and focusing on building real life emotional connections (even platonically!!!!!!!) usually does wonders.

Your despair isn't a uniquely male problem. A lot of women go through this same pain of feeling undesirable, unseen, unworthy. The difference is, society tells men to project it outward, to blame women, nature, or the system. But the truth is that healing starts inward. You're allowed to be angry. You're allowed to grieve the life you thought you'd have. But don't stay there. Don't make a home in that despair. Because people, real people, can love you. But only if they feel safe enough to try.

You're stuck in a system that profits from your self loathing. Please stop feeding it. You deserve a better story.

(Lots of love from a short-man-and-fat-man loving woman who's seen this spiral too many times.)

 

[bankai]

Aww,such sweet responses in this thread.this place is great

So they're out there OP,seems like they're definitely out there.realistically there's only a few of them but that's what makes them special I guess.you'll find one,please keep trying.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

sorry if my input is useless here since i am a girl, but i just wanted to say i understand the kind of frustration you are feeling and how heavy it must be to carry all that. you mentioned how some people fetishize overweight women, and yeah, there are definitely fetishes for short guys too, but real love goes so far beyond that. love is not about checking boxes or being someones type. it is about being seen and cherished for who you are.

you said you are 5'3 and that it feels like a problem, but honestly, it is not. i have dated men shorter than that and loved them just as deeply as someone who was 6 foot. the right person will not care about height or body shape. they will care about how you think, how you love, how you make them feel.

i know it can feel like the world is against you, like nature itself is cruel, but the kind of connection you are looking for is still possible. it might not come easy, and it might not come soon, but that does not mean it will never come.

you deserve that kind of love. something honest. something that sees all of you and stays.

I really disagree with this.

For every woman who doesn't care about height, there are 100 who do.


Neet is right to feel upset and it's unrealistic to think a great attitude and being optimistic will turn things around. Life is sadly not a Disney movie.

Neet money changes things, and if you can buy a woman enough stuff she may fall in love with you despite the height. Work hard and find a short woman. It's not impossible, but it will be hard and annoying. You don't have to buy stuff so much as be really financially stable.

 

[bankai]

I really disagree with this.

For every woman who doesn't care about height, there are 100 who do.

But she says it's not easy and that type of relationship won't come soon,etc.

Yes most women don't fit this mold,most will have those conventional standards sure.

But obviously there are some who see past that.they're still out there,fewer in number sure but still out there.

 

[bl33ding_heart]

and I don't mean tolerate, but actually prefer short over tall. There are many guys who prefer overweight women for example, and a wide variety of body types on women.

I know this is an incel-coded thread and controversial but idc, first bout of manlet-rage I've felt for months after successfully avoiding tiktok rot from showing up in any of my doomscrolling but some leaked through the cracks just now and I'm ashamed with myself at how viscerally I reacted to it and I'm still riding off the rage-despair to make this impulsive futile post to seethe and let everyone know how so-not-happy I am with the structure of nature and this demiurge-run hellscape because that's going to do what exactly?

I don't want a gf or sex, I want a gf that genuinely adores me instead of settling for me, and all I've learnt to believe is that will simply never happen at this POV, ergo death it is because my body is a fucking greedy spastic slave that refuses to stop fucking torturing me over not having intimacy with my biological counterpart and I really wonder if this is a uniquely personal problem or if this is just how any biological male would react in my circumstances. Why do I have to have this unshakeable feeling that salvation is only achievable through a woman? I want to rip my fucking jaw off.

Oh guess I should add I'm like 5'3, in the west, so when I say I'm short I mean short, not like those guys who sulk over being 5'10

Not trying to sound like misogynist, but most woman want a man that exceeds them in some way. Whether it be height, general attractiveness, or intelligence. I'm not saying men are inherently better then woman, but they are the sex that is physically stronger and usually taller. So I see woman being more attracted to that over shorter men as a biological instinct.

 

[secretghost]

I think it has to do with the pools of women you're interacting with in some ways. In a lot of queer circles, I know a lot of girls who when they date guys they have less typical preferences than strictly hetero girls. But it all comes back to beauty standards and self esteem. As bad as it sounds, I think a lot of straight girls don't date short guys PURELY out of their own insecurity of being perceived as a tall girl. It's a weird self-feedbsck shame loop on society I think which comes down to the fucked up assumption that men should be large and women should be small. It's so stupid and it's so sad it has such an impact on people's behaviors and in turn impacts so many people's self esteem.

 

[badkarma4618]

I really disagree with this.

For every woman who doesn't care about height, there are 100 who do.


Neet is right to feel upset and it's unrealistic to think a great attitude and being optimistic will turn things around. Life is sadly not a Disney movie.

Neet money changes things, and if you can buy a woman enough stuff she may fall in love with you despite the height. Work hard and find a short woman. It's not impossible, but it will be hard and annoying. You don't have to buy stuff so much as be really financially stable.

i hear what you are saying and i know it comes from real hurt, but i just do not think it is as black and white as most women only wanting tall men. there are women in this thread saying they would, and have, been in relationships with a short man, and that is not charity or a fluke. attraction is weird and deeply personal.

relationships are not a vending machine where you put in money or stability and get affection in return. most women are not looking for a hot, rich, emotionless mating partner. they want someone who can love them back, someone emotionally intelligent, someone they can actually connect with.

attraction has its layers. it is not just about height or looks or income, it is about how someone makes you feel, how safe you are with them, how you laugh together, how you grow. the world is not a disney movie, sure, but it is also not some hopeless place where only the lucky few get a relationship.

you can be short, kind, broke, smart, flawed, soft, and still be loved — not despite those things, but sometimes because of them. it might take time and it might be hard, but that does not mean you are broken and destined to be alone.

 

[gothbird]

Not trying to sound like misogynist, but most woman want a man that exceeds them in some way. Whether it be height, general attractiveness, or intelligence. I'm not saying men are inherently better then woman, but they are the sex that is physically stronger and usually taller. So I see woman being more attracted to that over shorter men as a biological instinct.

You may not intend to sound misogynistic, but what you've said reflects a mindset that contributes to the very issues you're trying to make sense of.

This idea that "most women want a man who exceeds them" is a cultural myth shaped by centuries of patriarchal norms, media representation, and traditional gender roles. When you say "exceeds," what you're really pointing to is dominance, and the assumption that men must be above women to be desirable. That's social conditioning.

Height and strength aren't universally valued. You may perceive that women gravitate toward taller or physically stronger men, but that's heavily influenced by what media, dating apps, and toxic masculinity teach both men and women to value. Many women actively prefer partners who are their height or shorter, or who don't rely on brute strength to feel secure. You just don't hear about them as loudly, because popular narratives drown them out.
The belief that attraction must be hierarchical is the problem. This "men must be more than women" idea isn't just wrong, it's damaging. It puts men under enormous pressure to constantly outdo, outperform, and outshine their partners, and it reduces women to benchmarks or stepping stones.
Biological determinism is a lazy explanation for social patterns. Claiming that women are "biologically" drawn to taller, stronger men ignores centuries of cultural influence. Studies in evolutionary psychology often get misrepresented. what they show is variation. People form attractions based on thousands of factors: shared values, emotional intimacy, humour, body language, and yes, even quirks like someone's laugh or how they hold a book. Reducing all of that to height and strength is scientifically unfounded.
It reinforces the very insecurity you're reacting to. When men believe they have to be bigger, smarter, richer, or more "alpha" to be loved, they end up resenting anyone who challenges that belief...usually women. And that resentment poisons the chance of real, mutual relationships. It also creates echo chambers where pain becomes entitlement.

If we want healthier dynamics between people, we need to reject this idea that love and attraction are a contest of who has more power. A good relationship isn't about someone exceeding the other.

But the good news? It's learned, and that means it can be unlearned.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

i hear what you are saying and i know it comes from real hurt, but i just do not think it is as black and white as most women only wanting tall men. there are women in this thread saying they would, and have, been in relationships with a short man, and that is not charity or a fluke. attraction is weird and deeply personal.

relationships are not a vending machine where you put in money or stability and get affection in return. most women are not looking for a hot, rich, emotionless mating partner. they want someone who can love them back, someone emotionally intelligent, someone they can actually connect with.

attraction has its layers. it is not just about height or looks or income, it is about how someone makes you feel, how safe you are with them, how you laugh together, how you grow. the world is not a disney movie, sure, but it is also not some hopeless place where only the lucky few get a relationship.

you can be short, kind, broke, smart, flawed, soft, and still be loved — not despite those things, but sometimes because of them. it might take time and it might be hard, but that does not mean you are broken and destined to be alone.

This does not personally come from hurt. I'm not especially tall or short.

I am saying this person's anguish is not based on just being too pessimistic or being a wimp or having a bad attitude. It is much harder for short men to date.

I hope he finds someone, and I was being serious when I say if he works hard or studies hard it's more likely.

Someone could still fall in love with him, but it may not be an easy journey.

I know that some other comments may be trying to be comforting but I am not sure they are comforting.
It's like when a situation is really frustrating hallmark sayings like "turn that frown upside down and have a great day" don't always help.

i hear what you are saying and i know it comes from real hurt, but i just do not think it is as black and white as most women only wanting tall men. there are women in this thread saying they would, and have, been in relationships with a short man, and that is not charity or a fluke. attraction is weird and deeply personal.

relationships are not a vending machine where you put in money or stability and get affection in return. most women are not looking for a hot, rich, emotionless mating partner. they want someone who can love them back, someone emotionally intelligent, someone they can actually connect with.

attraction has its layers. it is not just about height or looks or income, it is about how someone makes you feel, how safe you are with them, how you laugh together, how you grow. the world is not a disney movie, sure, but it is also not some hopeless place where only the lucky few get a relationship.

you can be short, kind, broke, smart, flawed, soft, and still be loved — not despite those things, but sometimes because of them. it might take time and it might be hard, but that does not mean you are broken and destined to be alone.

This does not personally come from hurt. I'm not especially tall or short.

I am saying this person's anguish is not based on just being too pessimistic or being a wimp or having a bad attitude. It is much harder for short men to date.

I hope he finds someone, and I was being serious when I say if he works hard or studies hard it's more likely.

Someone could still fall in love with him, but it may not be an easy journey.

I know that some other comments may be trying to be comforting but I am not sure they are comforting.
It's like when a situation is really frustrating hallmark sayings like "turn that frown upside down and have a great day" don't always help.

 

[badkarma4618]

I hope he finds someone, and I was being serious when I say if he works hard or studies hard it's more likely.

Someone could still fall in love with him, but it may not be an easy journey.

so we agree!

 

[claracatchingthebus]

so we agree!

I don't agree with that statement!

We should agree to disagree about whatever we were disagreeing about.

 

[Docdj]

My sister is married to a really small man.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

My sister is married to a really small man.

I disagree with this as well.

 

[ObsidianEnigma]

I really wonder if this is a uniquely personal problem or if this is just how any biological male would react in my circumstances.

Sadly yes, this is normal (evolution biology). Need of a woman is deeply buried in you genes; your body is torturing you to copy the genes to the next generation. Time to time, a lucky person is born who does not have it, but they do not procreate, so this valuable genetic information is lost.

Regarding your height:

I am tall (though not handsome). During my life I knew several short men, who dated seemingly without issues and later married. And they married beautiful girls (completely out of my league).

They are all rich / top earners (~ upper management). Interestingly, they dated (beautiful) girls *before* they climbed the corporate ladder to the top. So it is about them as persons, not about their money.

I've never felt that being tall is all that necessary. I think communication skills, energy, empathy, ambition, and charisma are far more important (and I don't have any of those).

 

[claracatchingthebus]

Sadly yes, this is normal (evolution biology). Need of a woman is deeply buried in you genes; your body is torturing you to copy the genes to the next generation. Time to time, a lucky person is born who does not have it, but they do not procreate, so this valuable genetic information is lost.

Regarding your height:

I am tall (though not handsome). During my life I knew several short men, who dated seemingly without issues and later married. And they married beautiful girls (completely out of my league).

They are all rich / top earners (~ upper management). Interestingly, they dated (beautiful) girls *before* they climbed the corporate ladder to the top. So it is about them as persons, not about their money.

I've never felt that being tall is all that necessary. I think commutation skills, energy, empathy, ambition, and charisma are far more important (and I don't have any of those).

If they dated beautiful girls before they climbed the corporate ladder, this may only indicate they can from wealthy connected families. Correlation is not always causation.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Not trying to sound like misogynist, but most woman want a man that exceeds them in some way. Whether it be height, general attractiveness, or intelligence. I'm not saying men are inherently better then woman, but they are the sex that is physically stronger and usually taller. So I see woman being more attracted to that over shorter men as a biological instinct.

I think there's a grain of truth to this, but it needs to be nuanced: it's not necessarily that most women want a man that exceeds them, just one that matches them, whether that's in emotional intelligence, height, income, etc.

 

[bl33ding_heart]

I think there's a grain of truth to this, but it needs to be nuanced: it's not necessarily that most women want a man that exceeds them, just one that matches them, whether that's in emotional intelligence, height, income, etc.

Eh what I've personally noticed is a lot of woman want way more than they can personally offer. Lol.

 

[Dejected 55]

I do think absolutism is always dodgy... and while I fall into the trap sometimes, I try to stay away from it as best I can.

That said, while I can't say for certain about all men or all women or all experiences... I can always speak of all my own experiences.

I'm 6' and whether I have been in great shape, okay shape, or overweight, my experiences with women have all been the same. I can get along with almost anyone, but the nanosecond I let a women know I am interested... she has either used me, rejected me, or ignored me. It is hard not to extrapolate from that experience that women aren't going to find me attractive.

So, for the OP... if he has experienced repeated rejection based on his height... It's hard to devalue his personal experience and say it is invalid just because you see or know (or are yourself) women who are happy to date short guys. You just might be running across those rare unicorns, whereas his experience is more typical.

I know ugly guys get girlfriends. I've seen it. My mother said she dated ugly guys. But if you are an ugly guy who never gets accepted or loved by anyone, it's really hard not to conclude that no one wants to date you because you are ugly.

 

[NaturalBornNEET]

sorry if my input is useless here since i am a girl

Ignore this if you aren't looking for comments from women

posts from women are what I'm looking for the most, that or anyone with a PhD in evolutionary biology or pyschology

None of this is to discount your pain; height preference is a real thing. It's just to show that our perception of the other sex is often skewed because we only ever get to see our own side. I'm sure you would disagree with much of what I just said about men, just as I disagree about your perception of women's preferences due to my own lived experience as a woman who genuinely does tend to prefer shorter men. The only man who I have ever been viscerally, magnetically attracted to was maybe a hair taller than me, and I'm 5'3. And no, he didn't have money, I was far richer than him. Nor was he fit, nor did he have a conventionally handsome face. If we had gotten together, it certainly would not have been me settling for him, but rather me choosing him, because I had eyes for no one else, I only wanted him.

I agree with quite a lot of what you said about men. One of the reasons this whole farce of dating gets to me so much is I don't need outside proof, like redpill content or tik tok to tell me how ruthless nature is, I am my own proof. I am attracted to women I find attractive and not attracted to women I find unattractive, and this attraction is based off of looks at first because that's all I can know about them at first sight. I can't just will myself to be attracted to someone or be unattracted to someone and I hate this, what did they do to deserve my attraction or unattraction? Nothing! Nothing at all! Because it's all unfair random meaningless flesh spasms and trying to maintain a sense of morality and sanity despite this is impossible for my feeble mind.

I have never related to the whole only using a woman for sex trope tho, but I can't speak for all guys and from what I've seen there seems to be guys out there really like that, but I can't even fathom how desensitized and ungrateful you'd have to be to be such a way, I don't know whether I should envy or pity them

But here's the part that really needs to be challenged: "Why do I have this unshakeable feeling that salvation is only achievable through a woman?" The honest answer? You've probably been raised in a culture (and fed by porn, movies, and red pill narratives) that told you women are the ultimate goal. The finish line. The trophy. But we're not. We're people. We're messy and imperfect and full of contradictions, and we're not here to save you. That's your job.

Everything you said is right especially this, the problem is my nervous system doesnt care, one bit. In my most down bad arc I literally sat down and decided to write out on paper all my rationalizations to implore my nervous system to see that "look! you don't need approval from others! that's all actually due to x and y reason and it's actually a cover up for this and that and it's all a vain pursuit in the end!" but nope, message sent but not delivered. Trauma apparently fragments one's personality and this must be especially true in my case, my rationality and emotions are completely divorced

Neet money changes things, and if you can buy a woman enough stuff she may fall in love with you despite the height. Work hard and find a short woman. It's not impossible, but it will be hard and annoying. You don't have to buy stuff so much as be really financially stable.

I would never date a woman who I knew was with me for money, I'm so against it I've even feared the thought of becoming rich and being unable to filter out people who are with me for my money or not. Even being loved for fame and status would be more preferable, at least then they're attracted to something I view as more "inherent" in me and not a literal object such as money

I think it has to do with the pools of women you're interacting with in some ways. In a lot of queer circles, I know a lot of girls who when they date guys they have less typical preferences than strictly hetero girls. But it all comes back to beauty standards and self esteem. As bad as it sounds, I think a lot of straight girls don't date short guys PURELY out of their own insecurity of being perceived as a tall girl. It's a weird self-feedbsck shame loop on society I think which comes down to the fucked up assumption that men should be large and women should be small. It's so stupid and it's so sad it has such an impact on people's behaviors and in turn impacts so many people's self esteem.

Really elucidating post, all the women coming out and telling me of their preference for short men has been I'll admit a little dubious... It's like I've discovered a new species because I'm not lying when I say this I have NEVER seen a woman claim to like short men up until this post, a post made by a distressed and suicidal person in need of solace, so understandably I still have my doubts

But the only woman I've ever had give me a chance was bi and alt, she said she liked me for my alt-ness too so I can definitely believe in what you say about queer women being more open minded, I've just never made the distinction clear in my head.

You may not intend to sound misogynistic, but what you've said reflects a mindset that contributes to the very issues you're trying to make sense of.

This idea that "most women want a man who exceeds them" is a cultural myth shaped by centuries of patriarchal norms, media representation, and traditional gender roles. When you say "exceeds," what you're really pointing to is dominance, and the assumption that men must be above women to be desirable. That's social conditioning.

Height and strength aren't universally valued. You may perceive that women gravitate toward taller or physically stronger men, but that's heavily influenced by what media, dating apps, and toxic masculinity teach both men and women to value. Many women actively prefer partners who are their height or shorter, or who don't rely on brute strength to feel secure. You just don't hear about them as loudly, because popular narratives drown them out.
The belief that attraction must be hierarchical is the problem. This "men must be more than women" idea isn't just wrong, it's damaging. It puts men under enormous pressure to constantly outdo, outperform, and outshine their partners, and it reduces women to benchmarks or stepping stones.
Biological determinism is a lazy explanation for social patterns. Claiming that women are "biologically" drawn to taller, stronger men ignores centuries of cultural influence. Studies in evolutionary psychology often get misrepresented. what they show is variation. People form attractions based on thousands of factors: shared values, emotional intimacy, humour, body language, and yes, even quirks like someone's laugh or how they hold a book. Reducing all of that to height and strength is scientifically unfounded.
It reinforces the very insecurity you're reacting to. When men believe they have to be bigger, smarter, richer, or more "alpha" to be loved, they end up resenting anyone who challenges that belief...usually women. And that resentment poisons the chance of real, mutual relationships. It also creates echo chambers where pain becomes entitlement.

If we want healthier dynamics between people, we need to reject this idea that love and attraction are a contest of who has more power. A good relationship isn't about someone exceeding the other.

But the good news? It's learned, and that means it can be unlearned.

The worst part is a lot of people seem to WANT to uphold this dynamic of hierarchal attraction, even to the point of worshipping it. Even though it just does damage to both men and women in the end

 

[secretghost]

i hear what you are saying and i know it comes from real hurt, but i just do not think it is as black and white as most women only wanting tall men. there are women in this thread saying they would, and have, been in relationships with a short man, and that is not charity or a fluke. attraction is weird and deeply personal.

relationships are not a vending machine where you put in money or stability and get affection in return. most women are not looking for a hot, rich, emotionless mating partner. they want someone who can love them back, someone emotionally intelligent, someone they can actually connect with.

attraction has its layers. it is not just about height or looks or income, it is about how someone makes you feel, how safe you are with them, how you laugh together, how you grow. the world is not a disney movie, sure, but it is also not some hopeless place where only the lucky few get a relationship.

you can be short, kind, broke, smart, flawed, soft, and still be loved — not despite those things, but sometimes because of them. it might take time and it might be hard, but that does not mean you are broken and destined to be alone.

seconding this. and I know some people who are extremely conventionally attractive who have worse dating experiences than people who I know who are not conventionally attractive if just takes

posts from women are what I'm looking for the most, that or anyone with a PhD in evolutionary biology or pyschology

I agree with quite a lot of what you said about men. One of the reasons this whole farce of dating gets to me so much is I don't need outside proof, like redpill content or tik tok to tell me how ruthless nature is, I am my own proof. I am attracted to women I find attractive and not attracted to women I find unattractive, and this attraction is based off of looks at first because that's all I can know about them at first sight. I can't just will myself to be attracted to someone or be unattracted to someone and I hate this, what did they do to deserve my attraction or unattraction? Nothing! Nothing at all! Because it's all unfair random meaningless flesh spasms and trying to maintain a sense of morality and sanity despite this is impossible for my feeble mind.

I have never related to the whole only using a woman for sex trope tho, but I can't speak for all guys and from what I've seen there seems to be guys out there really like that, but I can't even fathom how desensitized and ungrateful you'd have to be to be such a way, I don't know whether I should envy or pity them


Everything you said is right especially this, the problem is my nervous system doesnt care, one bit. In my most down bad arc I literally sat down and decided to write out on paper all my rationalizations to implore my nervous system to see that "look! you don't need approval from others! that's all actually due to x and y reason and it's actually a cover up for this and that and it's all a vain pursuit in the end!" but nope, message sent but not delivered. Trauma apparently fragments one's personality and this must be especially true in my case, my rationality and emotions are completely divorced



I would never date a woman who I knew was with me for money, I'm so against it I've even feared the thought of becoming rich and being unable to filter out people who are with me for my money or not. Even being loved for fame and status would be more preferable, at least then they're attracted to something I view as more "inherent" in me and not a literal object such as money


Really elucidating post, all the women coming out and telling me of their preference for short men has been I'll admit a little dubious... It's like I've discovered a new species because I'm not lying when I say this I have NEVER seen a woman claim to like short men up until this post, a post made by a distressed and suicidal person in need of solace, so understandably I still have my doubts

But the only woman I've ever had give me a chance was bi and alt, she said she liked me for my alt-ness too so I can definitely believe in what you say about queer women being more open minded, I've just never made the distinction clear in my head.


The worst part is a lot of people seem to WANT to uphold this dynamic of hierarchal attraction, even to the point of worshipping it. Even though it just does damage to both men and women in the end

yeah not to be Generalizing because this is all so nuanced but a bi alt woman not giving a fuck about your height because youre alt and that's cool and hot to a lot of alt girls. it's kind of like noses or body hair or anything else, there are preferences and then there are like subconscious ways we uphold our self image via our partner. If you're on SaSu, you don't have much to lose and I hope you let yourself meet more people and explore more types of relationships and dynamics and social scenes. it is a super fucked up societal dynamic and I think without getting political you have to be careful what you value/who you try to impress. it's so easy to poison yourself on sexond-hand fumes of late stage capitalism culture war bullshit. we are all scared kids in bodies that grew up and we didn't pick the bodies or the circumstances. society can be especially cruel to men and women respectively in their own ways but I hope you'll find a kinder place or a person who makes you feel the way you should. best wishes

 

[wham311]

Its not that you're buying them what they want and they have sex with you. I mean sometimes it is

But it's more like they're attracted to you because you're successful. Success brings confidence and self esteem and makes you seem competent.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

I agree with quite a lot of what you said about men. One of the reasons this whole farce of dating gets to me so much is I don't need outside proof, like redpill content or tik tok to tell me how ruthless nature is, I am my own proof. I am attracted to women I find attractive and not attracted to women I find unattractive, and this attraction is based off of looks at first because that's all I can know about them at first sight. I can't just will myself to be attracted to someone or be unattracted to someone and I hate this, what did they do to deserve my attraction or unattraction? Nothing! Nothing at all! Because it's all unfair random meaningless flesh spasms and trying to maintain a sense of morality and sanity despite this is impossible for my feeble mind.

That's why you have to direct your blame to the true culprit: life. Men suck, women suck, we all suck and life is a scam, and that's why I'm writing this on a suicide forum

 

[Wolf Girl]

I'm not conventionally attractive and I spent like 10 years telling myself I couldn't date because people who were attracted to girls like me "seemed to not exist." I actually have the inverse problem: I'm a big and tall woman and a lot of men get insecure or disgusted cuz I'm bigger than them. But... Turns out people just don't want to fuck you if you hate yourself and I was broadcasting my low self esteem to everyone. Now I'm confident in knowing that people who like Amazons like me exist out there and getting dates isn't so hard.

You absolutely *have* to learn to forget about the people who aren't into you--they're not compatible with you and that's okay because your people exist. If you are using dating apps, put something silly and confident about your height in your bio. I put my height/weight and "I don't care if you're smaller than me, love me like a weasel loves a bunny" and that's when I actually started getting matches. Also, when a guy your height message me knowing I'm half a foot taller, I note that as a huge green flag because it says he's secure.

 

[Sn0wy0wl]

Dating is complicated no matter how tall you are.
I'm 178cm, which is under average in my country. But the main factor in finding love for males was never looks, it was and will always be - the money. Other stuff can help, I mean you are evaluated all together. In my experience, women are never going to date a guy that is shorter than they are.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I suspect there is a biological bias. Same as men will argue it's 'natural' for them to go for young, fit looking women- because it's an indicator they are fertile (apparently.) I guess women (often) go for taller men because they look more imposing/ cabable of protecting them. Not to say they are- of course. Not to say all men or women go for that either.

There can sometimes be personality traits with shorter men that aren't appealing too. Anyone with a 'chip on their shoulder' can come across more defensive/ aggressive. (Napoleon complex or syndrome.) People can often be attracted to those who are more confident, calm and comfortable with themselves.

I've known one or two shorter men who were fairly spiteful. That's not to say they all are. It's not to say it's their 'fault' either. Maybe they were made like that through years of teasing/ feeling inferior. Regardless though, it can be unpleasant to be around.

Not sure I've fancied guys shorter than me but, I have the same height and, I'm only 5ft 6. I'd also say money/ charisma can bridge the gap for men. It does depend what people go for too. There must be shorter men out there who have partners. Not everyone goes for a specific 'type'.