What we're up against - The perils of being rescued by an unbidden savior

[Kali_Yuga13]

I am appalled by this comment from a reddit post I stumbled upon today. It's the story of a self-righteous sibling and an unbidden rescuer and the nightmare scenario aftermath for someone that wanted his life to end. The post is punctuated with #988 links and "don't do it, there's always help" platitudes.

Maybe just maybe this person's choice shouldn't have been interfered with. Maybe his rescue wasn't "heroic" but a new chapter of torture. The mental gymnastics people do to prolong life at any cost, no matter how torturous is astounding and the normalization and implicit agreement with such a thought process is dangerous to the freedom of society. It is a massive abuse of power and medicine to force someone to live, perform a non-consensual surgery to further prolong their life and shove them into a care home for the rest of their lives. And they pat themselves on the back...*phew* "The rest of their lives are going to be torture but at least they lived."

 

[mangoastronaut]

Wow... Reading this disgusts me. How can you write all of that and feel good about your actions? I'd be mortified by what has become. Their poor brother, I feel so bad for him. This is worse than the torture he was trying to escape from.

 

[cinnamonsticks]

How is the final message "don't do it"? It makes absolutely no sense, the op didn't even try to make sense on their story, their brother was going thru a lot but hey at least he lived. Even if there's help available he clearly cannot even take it in a proper way to make his life better, why do people think like that? This is maddening

 

[whywere]

Like I have said before, with 24/7 chronic pain, if and when. quantity is more than quality of life, then decisions will be made.

Let everyone make their own path without crappy no needed outside influence either way.

Walter

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

It's my greatest fear for some creep to interrupt my suicide attempt and leave me with brain damage and other damage

this is why I haven't attempted yet

IF i'm about to jump off a building . then they 'll try and grab you and stop you . same if they find you hanging but still alive they will cut you down and give you brain damage . or pull you out of water drowning and again give you brain damage. they only care about keeping you alive in this hell for what reason? to keep me as a slave and prisoner

if they find me after i shot myself they will call the police to get me to the ER if i'm still alive also again leaving me with brain damage and other horrors . after any suicide attempt.

it's no one else's business if i want to kill these monstrous cells they call a human body i'm trapped in.i won't be affecting any other human only me and i want to stop suffering and never suffer again .why is that so bad why is that a crime why can't i be allowed to escape my extreme suffering ? why is that anyone else's business? they don't want to help me suicide . and anyone would be put in prison if they help me even if i pay them . but they feel a need to stop me and cause brain damage to me instead of letting me do what i want to do what i need to do . plus i would've died anyway as we all do. but they irrationally feel the need to control when i die and that i must remain alive no matter what even though it's only for a while longer anyway as we all will die anyway. this horrible anti-suicide state and oppression is another reason for me to kill myself asap.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

I may sound schizo but it seems like there's a pro-life hive mind that senses when someone attempts to ctb and sends someone to investigate. So many unlikely rescues I've read about.

It's my greatest fear for some creep to interrupt my suicide attempt and leave me with brain damage and other damage

There was another comment from a daughter whose mom had put a note on the door not to open it and call the paramedics. Fire department came and the door was barricaded so it took time to access the mom who had hung herself successfully.

Many of the rescues I've read entail just a few minutes window to be resuscitated. The dude in this story needed CPR. Possibly just another minute or two would've been enough for him to complete the job. Isolation or other stop-gap measures to restrict access are as crucial as method to prevent such a scenario.

 

[FuneralCry]

That is so horrific, it's such extreme terrible cruelty to me how we exist in this reality where the suffering and torture of human existence is seen as to force and prolong no matter what with suicide seen as a crime with humans tortured so much in this existence with no limit as to how much agony they can feel.

The world really is the most horrifying place, all that anti-suicide does is cause way more harm and suffering, it's so terrifying how a human can suffer so unbearably in this reality, it terrifies me how trying to cease existing can go wrong and lead to such torture.

 

[Dante_]

The things people will do to subvert our agency is beyond me.

 

[Eudaimonic]

Jfc this is horrible. He's essentially saying, "don't do it because a psycho like me might come along and """save""" you." That's the only way in which the conclusion follows from what he said.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

Jfc this is horrible. He's essentially saying, "don't do it because a psycho like me might come along and """save""" you." That's the only way in which the conclusion follows from what he said.

Very succinct way of putting it and absolutely true.

If it were up to me that person would be brought up on charges of false imprisonment and medical torture.

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

That's crazy he survived everything he threw at his body. What an insane threshold there is between dying like it's nothing and surviving what should be a garunteed suicide.

 

[Droso]

How is the final message "don't do it"? It makes absolutely no sense, the op didn't even try to make sense on their story, their brother was going thru a lot but hey at least he lived. Even if there's help available he clearly cannot even take it in a proper way to make his life better, why do people think like that? This is maddening

The sentiment with these people is that they view the person who attempted as the person to blame for all of the shit that comes after surviving an attempt— not the people who "rescued" them. To them, the person who is trying to kill themselves is basically consenting to anything that happens after being stopped because they are the ones who chose to commit. In reality, no one who is stopped mid attempt ever actually consents to it. However, these people view premature, "non-natural" death as the worst thing that can happen to someone. We are simply too deluded in our mental illnesses to understand that!

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

That's crazy he survived everything he threw at his body. What an insane threshold there is between dying like it's nothing and surviving what should be a garunteed suicide.

the only reason he lived is because of the cpr and other treatments in the ER hospital and hospitals they did on him to keep him alive .

If there were no ER or hospitals or there was no way i could go to one then i would kill myself today. if there were no ER there's no way i would survive some of the methods i have.

 

[WakingNightmare]

So many cases where a "hero" steps in to stop a suicide, and then the person suffering is discarded like trash to suffer.
It's also pathetic that guys brother is complaining about having to make a few phone calls and driving to the hospital. Meanwhile his brother who already didn't want to live now is being forced to live with brain damage

 

[wait.what]

Can't you write a living will where you refuse CPR and other invasive resuscitation procedures? If you know your relatives are going to mess with you anyhow, duct tape your instructions to your chest or write "DNR" on your forehead in lipstick or both.

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

the only reason he lived is because of the cpr and other treatments in the ER hospital and hospitals they did on him to keep him alive .

If there were no ER or hospitals or there was no way i could go to one then i would kill myself today. if there were no ER there's no way i would survive some of the methods i have.

My point was more that with everything he did to himself in that moment, CPR shouldn't have been able to save him regardless. Some people can trip and just die like it's nothing but this guy was mixing some pretty serious drugs in his body, and then hung himself. The cop who did the CPR must've found him within a few minutes or something because according to the original post, the victim was physically large which should've put more pressure on his neck and gotten the job done faster.

 

[oatmeal.n]

I am appalled by this comment from a reddit post I stumbled upon today. It's the story of a self-righteous sibling and an unbidden rescuer and the nightmare scenario aftermath for someone that wanted his life to end. The post is punctuated with #988 links and "don't do it, there's always help" platitudes.

Maybe just maybe this person's choice shouldn't have been interfered with. Maybe his rescue wasn't "heroic" but a new chapter of torture. The mental gymnastics people do to prolong life at any cost, no matter how torturous is astounding and the normalization and implicit agreement with such a thought process is dangerous to the freedom of society. It is a massive abuse of power and medicine to force someone to live, perform a non-consensual surgery to further prolong their life and shove them into a care home for the rest of their lives. And they pat themselves on the back...*phew* "The rest of their lives are going to be torture but at least they lived."

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he's aware the brother was diagnosed with a likely terminal illness, and is now suffering on hundreds of machines just to keep him alive, for.. what exactly? your brother can't assist you anymore.. he can't talk to you, provide emotional assistance.. etc. what do you gain from this? this is so disgustingly horrible.. you think feeding your savior complex is more important than the life- both mental and physical, of your own brother. i wouldn't wish this on anyone, let alone a close family member. the worst part is seeing that guy get a reddit award for his selfishness, in what world do we applaud sadists like this one.. ours, i guess.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

However, these people view premature, "non-natural" death as the worst thing that can happen to someone. We are simply too deluded in our mental illnesses to understand that!

Can't you write a living will where you refuse CPR and other invasive resuscitation procedures? If you know your relatives are going to mess with you anyhow, duct tape your instructions to your chest or write "DNR" on your forehead in lipstick or both.

You bring up a very good point that we in this community need to understand more. What you're referring to is a "do not resuscitate" or DNR order. Yes it can be part of one's living will or sometimes you can sign off on it while in the hospital during the course of treatment for a terminal condition or before a big surgery.

I did a little digging around. There's little legal precedent for DNR's in regards to suicide one way or the other. In the case of the reddit story, we can assume the person didn't have a file at the hospital and acute treatment didn't allow for family to be consulted. In this scenario the doctor is most likely going to err on the side of saving and let other's work the rest out. The legal risk is much larger with not saving vs saving.

So what happens if a person attempts suicide and has a visible DNR attached to their person? Again, very murky with not much precedent. DNR litigation was not made with the suicidal person in mind. It ends up being at the doctor's discretion.

To @Droso 's point, the ethical question is whether suicide can ever be a rational decision. The prevailing sentiment is that it's not. It's assumed the DNR was not made by someone with a sound mind thus subjecting it to be overridden. This blog post breaks it down pretty well.

And what's the criteria for 'rational' and who's the final arbiter? We have poster's here with 10's of thousands of posts articulating suicide as a rational choice even for young adults in good health whom simply find life disagreeable. The 'experts' will retort with the "rationalization" that 'it must be the depression talking'. Maybe sometimes it is and yet maybe the person accepts that and doesn't want to spend years in therapy or meds to pathologize and 'treat' their desire to be done at their own volition.

Not much I can do here other than warn others the perils of getting their method right but forgetting to take measures against rescue it they're serious about their decision.

In the big picture, if this community wants to change how the world treats suicide and allow better access to effective and painless methods with reduced stigma, getting DNR verbiage fine tuned for suicide into law along with expanded legal criteria for rational decision making for the suicidal person will end up being a core objective.