Was Kamala Harris too far leftwing?

[noname223]

I think this is the conventional wisdom currently. But we know conventional wisdom is often flawed.

 

[DanielDanDean]

From a stranger's perspective (and it's a problem in my country too) this "left" candidate didn't make anything substancial to appeal to the working class.
Focusing on identity politics and not taking in account enough that many people don't see anyway their future can be better or at least not shittier
For example in the USA, maybe Sanders would have been a better candidate and had a better program but wasn't "progressive" enough.

In my country (France) it's an established fact thanks to a 2011 paper named "note Terra Nova" that the classic left litterally abandonned workers to focus on minorities.
The far left's most influencial party here had its leader saying that they focused on "young people" and "hoods", anything else is useless ( «mobiliser la jeunesse et les quartiers» ) and allegedly said about working and empoverished people from a countryside town he visited "stank", were "obese" and that he "understood nothing about what they said") because why respect the poorest in your own country right?

Anyways, we all know that whoever will be elected will not try to better people's life, they're just here for the boomers and big companies execs.
I don't know how any candidate could do something for people..

 

[untothedepths]

no. in fact, kamala is pretty right of center. the USA as a whole is an extremely conservative country. the right of the USA is just probably way more right than most people want to admit.

what seemed to swing voters was people buying into various bullshit traps and misinformation, something the republican base has been decent enough in for a long time now. they are good about pulling numbers and finding common ground better than democrats, and give zero shits if the crap they are promoting is truthful or not.

especially worrisome are the young men who voted. they dont realize it, or maybe they do and don't care, but many of them listened to misogynistic assholes who warped their world views. before someone mentions thats just looking at it from a labeling point of view, you yourself wouldn't be looking at the picture more broadly. these people give men validation, and toxic validation at that, they feel they aren't getting. so anything they say alongside of validating them is just siphoned up as the truth. doesn't help that democrats also allowed this to happen too, by not using less 'accusatory' language when talking about ongoing racism, sexism, you name it. i just think men are incredibly thin skinned but i hope this doesn't turn into women being raped while married and that no longer being a crime, for example.

but to also be fair, people are concerned about the economy, but just boldly assume things are going to be better with trump, and are also willing to throw their rights and safety away for it. mass deregulation tariffs to make shit more expensive, yeah. 83% of the tax cut is only going to the elite. not you. not anyone else. they dont care about you, they dont give a shit. meanwhile completely ignoring kamala's child tax cut which would immediately support families.

even if they don't explicitly say, the heritage foundation treats women like property, the LGBTQ like monsters, and minorities like trash. the whole think tank, the whole project only benefits a small portion of the country entirely.

thats my answer.

 

[Raichu]

I don't think the US has a proper left. The leaders change but the policies don't change that sharply. Whether it is Trump or Harris, none would end the embargo on Venezuela or Cuba right?! After the fall of the USSR we have seen a sharp and pretty rapid decline of the global left forces, which we, the common masses, desperately need. That is what I feel

 

[unknown1918]

It's because she was vp for 4 years and nothing got better and its not even like women got the right to abortion back

 

[Pessimist]

no. in fact, kamala is pretty right of center. the USA as a whole is an extremely conservative country. the right of the USA is just probably way more right than most people want to admit.

what seemed to swing voters was people buying into various bullshit traps and misinformation, something the republican base has been decent enough in for a long time now. they are good about pulling numbers and finding common ground better than democrats, and give zero shits if the crap they are promoting is truthful or not.

especially worrisome are the young men who voted. they dont realize it, or maybe they do and don't care, but many of them listened to misogynistic assholes who warped their world views. before someone mentions thats just looking at it from a labeling point of view, you yourself wouldn't be looking at the picture more broadly. these people give men validation, and toxic validation at that, they feel they aren't getting. so anything they say alongside of validating them is just siphoned up as the truth. doesn't help that democrats also allowed this to happen too, by not using less 'accusatory' language when talking about ongoing racism, sexism, you name it. i just think men are incredibly thin skinned but i hope this doesn't turn into women being raped while married and that no longer being a crime, for example.

but to also be fair, people are concerned about the economy, but just boldly assume things are going to be better with trump, and are also willing to throw their rights and safety away for it. mass deregulation tariffs to make shit more expensive, yeah. 83% of the tax cut is only going to the elite. not you. not anyone else. they dont care about you, they dont give a shit. meanwhile completely ignoring kamala's child tax cut which would immediately support families.

even if they don't explicitly say, the heritage foundation treats women like property, the LGBTQ like monsters, and minorities like trash. the whole think tank, the whole project only benefits a small portion of the country entirely.

thats my answer.

1. Anyone who thinks that Kamala Harris is right-leaning is part of the problem. You guys live in a far-left echo chamber that has very little to do with the real world. You're not going to win the elections by advocating for socialist and Marxist policies.
2. The US isn't an "extremely conservative country", it is socially liberal. Let's talk about truly conservative countries: at least seven UN member states have capital punishment for homosexuality.

 

[We Are Angels]

She's not a man. Most people don't want a woman president, let alone a racially diverse woman president. Democrats didn't learn from 2016.

 

[permanently tired]

It's because she was vp for 4 years and nothing got better and its not even like women got the right to abortion back

I've heard others say this too, but I'm curious: what power outside of being a figurehead does a VP hold? To my knowledge a VP has no actual power outside of encouraging the senate and the president. If the president doesn't want to do smth, it's not going to happen. She gets one tie breaking vote which rarely happens.

 

[Chinaski]

I think this is the conventional wisdom currently. But we know conventional wisdom is often flawed.

lmao was she fuck, who the hell is saying this

 

[noname223]

lmao was she fuck, who the hell is saying this

Many people in mainstream media. And some people in this forum.

The economic policies that were offered by Harris and Walz were not convincing for the American median voter. Who seems to like neoliberalism. But this is really contradictory. If the people get asked which policies they prefer not knowing from which candidate Harris' policies were way more popular.
At the same time the voters thought Trump is more competent on building a strong economy. Maybe it was just an anti-incumbent election.
Or maybe the Republicans just won with their misinformation war confusing the voters.
Or the Americans simply don't give a shit about the people on the bottom of society and certain minorities. And hope if these groups don't get a slice of the cake they have more for themselves. Which is really stupid because actually all the money goes to powerful elites instead (while crushing people at the bottom of society). Maybe some still believe in trickle down economics.

 

[Chinaski]

Many people in mainstream media. And some people in this forum.

Given a choice between media talking heads and people posting shit on here I'm not sure who I'd trust the least but you're probably going to have to redefine "left wing" entirely if you're going to suggest this is a label which applies to kamala harris

 

[noname223]

Given a choice between media talking heads and people posting shit on here I'm not sure who I'd trust the least but you're probably going to have to redefine "left wing" entirely if you're going to suggest this is a label which applies to kamala harris

On policies Harris was at least (way) more leftwing than Obama. Moreover, Americans seem to be very rightwing on the economy.
Maybe it does not even matter how leftwing Harris actually was and it was only about how she is perceived. It seems like there were a lot of misperceptions of Trumps and Harris policies this election. There was so much misinformation. Maybe the sole fact she is a woman on non white changed the perception of her crucially.

I think for the median American voter Harris was indeed leftwing.

 

[Pessimist]

On policies Harris was at least (way) more leftwing than Obama. Moreover, Americans seem to be very rightwing on the economy.
Maybe it does not even matter how leftwing Harris actually was and it was only about how she is perceived. It seems like there were a lot of misperceptions of Trumps and Harris policies this election. There was so much misinformation. Maybe the sole fact she is a woman on non white changed the perception of her crucially.

I think for the median American voter Harris was indeed leftwing.

 

[Chinaski]

On policies Harris was at least (way) more leftwing than Obama. Moreover, Americans seem to be very rightwing on the economy.
Maybe it does not even matter how leftwing Harris actually was and it was only about how she is perceived. It seems like there were a lot of misperceptions of Trumps and Harris policies this election. There was so much misinformation. Maybe the sole fact she is a woman on non white changed the perception of her crucially.

I think for the median American voter Harris was indeed leftwing.

Honestly no l think all of this is very much a European reading too many chinstroking thinkpieces in lieu of forming an opinion of their own and again you're going to have to define "left wing" in this context as to me being politicially left is a fixed position which does not shift when it's convenient for the sake of serving up a half-baked take, kamala harris is not left wing in any sense.

 

[Pessimist]

Honestly no l think all of this is very much a European reading too many chinstroking thinkpieces in lieu of forming an opinion of their own and again you're going to have to define "left wing" in this context as to me being politicially left is a fixed position which does not shift when it's convenient for the sake of serving up a half-baked take, kamala harris is not left wing in any sense.

Kamala Harris is clearly left-leaning and socially liberal. Please get out of your far-left, communist echo chamber.

 

[noname223]

Honestly no l think all of this is very much a European reading too many chinstroking thinkpieces in lieu of forming an opinion of their own and again you're going to have to define "left wing" in this context as to me being politicially left is a fixed position which does not shift when it's convenient for the sake of serving up a half-baked take, kamala harris is not left wing in any sense.

I think the US voters were not that educated before making that choice.

But Harris and Walz were very union friendly.
Additional tax hikes on wealthy Americans
Helping the middle class
Child tax credit
Expand Medicare drug price negotiations
Cut prices on groceries (I think this might have been very counterproductive for her because it is easy to label her as socialist with this announcement)
More subsidies for Health Care

I think these policies are enough to be labeled as far left in the US talking about economics

In Germany all centrist parties could agree to that. And personally I consider all of that more reasonable and not (necessarily) particularly leftwing

 

[Chinaski]

Kamala Harris is clearly left-leaning and socially liberal. Please get out of your far-left, communist echo chamber.

"left leaning" doesn't mean anything, it's not a fixed political position and is relative to the observer. Being "socially liberal" is not, by definition, left wing. The clue is in the words. Supporting genocide is also not left wing. Hanging out with liz cheney is similarly not left wing. Prioritising vibes over solid policies on healthcare, welfare and housing is not left wing. Sending Bill Clinton out to justify the continued support for the massacre of children is not left wing. Kamala Harris is not left wing.

If you're going to talk to me about communist echo chambers btw don't do it immediately after lifting a second hand opinion from a dipshit on twitter imo.

I think these policies are enough to be labeled as far left in the US talking about economics

To make this point clearly and definitively because it's clearly not sinking in:

Fools pointing at shit and calling it "left wing" is not how "left wing" politics is defined.

 

[Pessimist]

"left leaning" doesn't mean anything, it's not a fixed political position and is relative to the observer. Being "socially liberal" is not, by definition, left wing. The clue is in the words. Supporting genocide is also not left wing. Hanging out with liz cheney is similarly not left wing. Prioritising vibes over solid policies on healthcare, welfare and housing is not left wing. Sending Bill Clinton out to justify the continued support for the massacre of children is not left wing. Kamala Harris is not left wing.

If you're going to talk to me about communist echo chambers btw don't do it immediately after lifting a second hand opinion from a dipshit on twitter imo.

1. Social liberalism is left-leaning.



2. Many genocides, including the Cambodian genocide and the Holodomor (millions of victims each), were perpetrated by far-left communist regimes. If we are talking about her approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, she has been criticized by Trump for "hating Israel".

3. Have you ever heard of a left-right alliance? Maybe you should look into the Nazi–Soviet Pact.

 

[Chinaski]

1. Neither "social liberalism" nor "left leaning", and tbh I'd be cautious about using either term re the Dems, are solid political positions, they are dinner party descriptors and neither of them are inherently "left wing" please do not make me have to say this again.

2. What does Cambodia have to do with literally any of this, there is an actual genocide being perpetrated right now by an apartheid state which acts as a satellite for US interests, it's right on your door step. Oh wait, Trump says Harris is not sufficiently enthusiastic about ethnic cleansing despite her campaign involving sending Bill Clinton out to tell muslim voters why it is necessary to continue massacring children and her own cheerfully hanging out with despicable hawks? I guess she must be "left wing" then huh

3. what point are you trying to make here, have you just seen another tweet from a headbanger or something

 

[Pessimist]

1. Neither "social liberalism" nor "left leaning", and tbh I'd be cautious about using either term re the Dems, are solid political positions, they are dinner party descriptors and neither of them are inherently "left wing" please do not make me have to say this again.

2. What does Cambodia have to do with literally any of this, there is an actual genocide being perpetrated right now by an apartheid state which acts as a satellite for US interests, it's right on your door step. Oh wait, Trump says Harris is not sufficiently enthusiastic about ethnic cleansing despite her campaign involving sending Bill Clinton out to tell muslim voters why it is necessary to continue massacring children and her own cheerfully hanging out with despicable hawks? I guess she must be "left wing" then huh

3. what point are you trying to make here, have you just seen another tweet from a headbanger or something

Humanitarian aid and medicine still reaches Gaza these days. Under Trump, Palestinians are no longer going to exist. Your far-left brain can't differentiate between the woman who calls for a ceasefire and a two-state solution and the man who is angry at how much she "hates Israel". You're not going to win the elections by becoming the American version of the Chinese Communist Party. The silent majority is not progressive and they are tired of people like you, so I'm not surprised that Trump won the popular vote.

 

[KillingPain267]

No, lol. She is not left-wing at all. Left=socialism and she is far from socialist. She had more billionaires backing her than even Trump.

 

[Chinaski]

Humanitarian aid and medicine still reaches Gaza these days. Under Trump, Palestinians are no longer going to exist. Your far-left brain can't differentiate between the woman who calls for a ceasefire and a two-state solution and the man who is angry at how much she "hates Israel". You're not going to win the elections by becoming the American version of the Chinese Communist Party.

the preceding post where you, an actual israeli, listed historic genocides as a means of making a weird point about something not even being discussed made clear that you were a fool but this post is next level, hall of fame stuff.

Kamala Harris is not left wing.

 

[Pessimist]

the preceding post where you, an actual israeli, listed historic genocides as a means of making a weird point about something not even being discussed made clear that you were a fool but this post is next level, hall of fame stuff.

Kamala Harris is not left wing.

1. You said that supporting genocide is right-wing (which is historically false).

2. You're not left-wing. You're a far-left extremist.

 

[Deleted member 8119]

View attachment 154110

I'm all for diversity and it's definitely an US problem that needs addressing, but at the same time, you can't reject criticism of an strategy and blame it into everyone being wrong. The truth is appealing to everything you can't doesn't work well. You need more than just not being a bigot to sell yourself.

The following paragraph replies to your comments about communism and are not directly related to the Democrat party.

Some people, specially in LATAM, are absolutely frightened over what happened to Cuba and Venezuela, and to a lesser extent over what caused other countries economy like Argentina to sink so low. They don't care that wasn't "true communism or socialism", but the chance that can repeat is unacceptable no matter what. Some simply understand the vast times it doesn't go well, and the plans are bad even if it happened. Plus leaving the state complete control of anything is literally facilitating corruption, you want a strong system and making this scenarios as hard as possible, not blame your leaders when every single fucking time they simply do what they were allowed to. Unfortunately, there's still a lot of backwards mentality as well, but the anti-capitalism sentiment isn't gonna help one bit.

While the Dems aren't far-left, the people who really are also push others away from their side, even if it's not directly the party's fault.

Extra note, but we should really differentiate sides more. There's a huge difference between anti-capitalists and just neo-liberals in too many aspects to conflate both.

 

[-Link-]

This is a demonstration of the smoke and mirrors involved with politics... that both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris wanted to fool voters into believing she's a left-winger... Perhaps she played her role a little too strongly.

 

[Chinaski]

1. You said that supporting genocide is right-wing (which is historically false).

2. You're not left-wing. You're a far-left extremist.

I'm a socialist and i think genocide is bad, also Free Palestine.

 

[Pessimist]

I'm a socialist and i think genocide is bad, also Free Palestine.

You can convert to Islam and join Hamas, idgaf. Just don't be surprised when Trump urges Israel to nuke Gaza and cut off all humanitarian aid. 75 million people voted for Trump and it's going to be way higher if the radical left is going to stay obnoxious.

 

[Chinaski]

This is a demonstration of the smoke and mirrors involved with politics... that both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris wanted to fool voters into believing she's a left-winger... Perhaps she played her role a little too strongly.

I thought she spent the entire campaign chumming up to republicans and explicitly saying "i am definitely not left wing don't worry", legit do not get why shitty liberal centrism and their campaigns based entirely around being the lesser evil can't ever be held responsible for their own electoral failings without the myth that too much communism was on offer being perennially at fault.

There is a reason these opinions are breathlessly put forward in the media by shitlib talking heads and its singular purpose is to prevent any populist left insurgency from gaining legitimacy in the wake of the failings of the centrists relentless tacking right. Don't be the fucking idiot who buys it imo.

 

[Pessimist]

I thought she spent the entire campaign chumming up to republicans and explicitly saying "i am definitely not left wing don't worry", legit do not get why shitty liberal centrism and their campaigns based entirely around being the lesser evil can't ever be held responsible for their own electoral failings without the myth that too much communism was on offer being perennially at fault.

There is a reason these opinions are breathlessly put forward in the media by shitlib talking heads and its singular purpose is to prevent any populist left insurgency from gaining legitimacy in the wake of the failings of the centrists relentless tacking right. Don't be the fucking idiot who buys it imo.

50% of Americans think that Kamala Harris is too progressive. Only 10% think that she's not progressive enough.



According to Fox News:

Harris and her Democratic Party have moved far to the left on issues like income redistribution, reparations, law enforcement, allowing biological men to compete in women's sports and the role of government in our lives, leaving many moderate Democrats and independents behind. In the Times poll, 47% of respondents described Harris as "too liberal or progressive" while only 6% think she is not liberal or progressive enough.

Kamala Harris' extreme liberal policies could result in an unexpected election surprise

Harris needs to explain to voters how her administration will make life better for the majority of the country, which has fallen behind these past few years.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Chinaski]

50% of Americans think that Kamala Harris is too progressive. Only 10% think that she's not progressive enough.

View attachment 154114

again what is your point, what are you saying, if it's statistics you want how about 98.2% of your posts evidence an inability to exercise independent thought

EDIT stop quoting fox news articles to me man, i lived through recent history and don't need you to curate my news thank you