Discussion Terror Management Theory (TMT) and suicidality

[Saponification]

So, I've been reading about the Terror Management Theory (TMT), which proposes that every individual seeks to escape the inevitability of their own mortality by reaching a symbolic immortality. Aware of their inevitable demise, people cope by pursuing their immortality projects (e.g. offspring, becoming part of something that will outlive the individual, etc.). In the context of society, we also create belief systems and values to cope with this fact. A religious belief in eternal life after death is an obvious example. Of course, I was intrigued as to what this meant in the context of suicide and depression, and whether or not the denial of death applied to people who actually desire death.

I skimmed through Ernest Becker's book looking for this, and it's my understanding that he explains suicidal ideation as a consequence of the failure in coping with one's own insignificance—not being able to escape the anxiety that comes with the salience of mortality. And so, according to Becker, people turn to suicide as a last resort to escape this unbearable dread. Depressed people are afraid of both life and death, they have lost what gave their lives meaning, and were reminded that they are merely a decaying organism.

This seems quite obviously short-sighted, as it fails to consider the myriad of reasons someone can be depressed. Existencial dread is not the only factor that plays a role in someones suicidal ideations. It is a dissapointingly narrow view on depression—although I guess it is to be expected from such an old book.

So, TMT seems to fall short in the context of suicide, and I don't think it applies to everyone. I can say as a person who sees life as a burden that my suicidal ideation doesn't come from an existential dread—I'm very comfortable with the fact that my life is meaningless and the fact I'm going to die. I would go as far as to say that I'm at peace with that fact. I feel no need to immortalize myself. I do like the way TMT explains why some of our core cultural values exist, however.

On another note, I've also found a dissertation on this topic (pages 38 through 55 are relevant). It delves more into whether TMT affects people's stigma toward suicide. It describes a study where 2 groups of people were surveyed on their attitudes toward suicide, where only one of the groups was asked questions that reminded them of their mortality before the survey. The hypothesis was that the group who was reminded of their mortality salience would have higher stigma towards suicide. However, the results were inconsistent and inconclusive. I guess it's kind of pointless to mention this, lol.

 

[jadeturtle]

Therapists and people tell me that blasting my brains out with a 45 is self-harm and self-hatred. I tell them they're not listening to me, suicide is my best friend and greatest comfort. I tell them I want to do it because I care about myself. I love myself and I want the pain to end. I deserve to have a humane death and exit a painful ending life. I tell them suicide is self-compassion, but they don't understand it. I don't think they can unless they experienced it themselves.

 

[Saponification]

Therapists and people tell me that blasting my brains out with a 45 is self-harm and self-hatred. I tell them they're not listening to me, suicide is my best friend and greatest comfort. I tell them I want to do it because I care about myself. I love myself and I want the pain to end. I deserve to have a humane death and exit a painful ending life. I tell them suicide is self-compassion, but they don't understand it. I don't think they can unless they experienced it themselves.

Suicide is most definitely the ultimate act of self-love. Liberating oneself from the burden of sentient existence comes from wanting to grant oneself eternal peace. If that's not self-love idk what is.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's a really interesting idea. I'd say there are some members here who do appear frustrated that they feel unable to leave a significant mark on the world. So, suicide can appeal as a sort of 'all or nothing' sollution maybe. As in- if I can't be this person and be recognised, I'll simply stop playing the game.

I tend to think there's more to it though too. People reject this world also because they see it as a con. To 'become someone', you very often end up complying, climbing the career ladder, getting married, having children etc. Plenty of people reject the traditional ways of being seen and creating a legacy because they realise that it's all just generating money for people even higher up!

There's a growing trend in antinatilism too- which seems to suggest people aren't so obsessed with continuing their bloodlines. They're more keen on shielding them from harm! Plus, shielding the world/ environment from yet more humans.

I suppose I have strived to do a creative job- which is a very self indulgent way of expressing yourself and proving that you existed. While I obviously care about the end result. I care about becoming better and my stuff being approved of, the actual path to this was in a response to pain. I used to do art as a way to escape un unpleasant period in childhood. So, it's as much about getting lost in the process for me, as the end result. I'm not delluded too. I know I'm nowhere near good enough to be remembered for long at all. The companies I work for will easily replace me and in next to no time, there will be newer and better things to look at.

I want to suicide because my beloved coping mechanism isn't really doing what it was for me. While I still care, there's far less fulfilment there. So, less drive to strive further. So- my concern is with the present predicament, not my future legacy.

Plus, lots of people are atheists these days. What do we care about what happens after if we don't exist? And, if we do happen to exist elsewhere- wouldn't we be striving to make our mark there?

It's an interesting idea though. I imagine we may still have anxiety about non existence and, what that really means. Nothing presumably- which probably gives us anxiety because we like things to have meaning.

Personally speaking, I'm more upset that pretty soon, there will be no one left that remembers my family members who have died- my Mum, Nana, Grandma, Grandpa. Maybe a handful of possessions and photographs will remain but, no one will connect them with the people and stories behind them. It's like they'll die all over again.

But then, that's just the nature of it I suppose. We can't live forever. Even those who are immortalised through their work- Elvis for example. Can we truly know them through it? It's surely just a remnant of who they were or chose to present to the world. We don't have the space to remember everyone who ever existed. The idea is proposterous.

I think we tend to just pluck out examples here and there and muse on the tragedy of the human condition. Like walking through or past a graveyard at all the dead who no longer have people who mourn for them.

 

[Saponification]

It's a really interesting idea. I'd say there are some members here who do appear frustrated that they feel unable to leave a significant mark on the world. So, suicide can appeal as a sort of 'all or nothing' sollution maybe. As in- if I can't be this person and be recognised, I'll simply stop playing the game.

I tend to think there's more to it though too. People reject this world also because they see it as a con. To 'become someone', you very often end up complying, climbing the career ladder, getting married, having children etc. Plenty of people reject the traditional ways of being seen and creating a legacy because they realise that it's all just generating money for people even higher up!

There's a growing trend in antinatilism too- which seems to suggest people aren't so obsessed with continuing their bloodlines. They're more keen on shielding them from harm! Plus, shielding the world/ environment from yet more humans.

I suppose I have strived to do a creative job- which is a very self indulgent way of expressing yourself and proving that you existed. While I obviously care about the end result. I care about becoming better and my stuff being approved of, the actual path to this was in a response to pain. I used to do art as a way to escape un unpleasant period in childhood. So, it's as much about getting lost in the process for me, as the end result. I'm not delluded too. I know I'm nowhere near good enough to be remembered for long at all. The companies I work for will easily replace me and in next to no time, there will be newer and better things to look at.

I want to suicide because my beloved coping mechanism isn't really doing what it was for me. While I still care, there's far less fulfilment there. So, less drive to strive further. So- my concern is with the present predicament, not my future legacy.

Plus, lots of people are atheists these days. What do we care about what happens after if we don't exist? And, if we do happen to exist elsewhere- wouldn't we be striving to make our mark there?

It's an interesting idea though. I imagine we may still have anxiety about non existence and, what that really means. Nothing presumably- which probably gives us anxiety because we like things to have meaning.

Personally speaking, I'm more upset that pretty soon, there will be no one left that remembers my family members who have died- my Mum, Nana, Grandma, Grandpa. Maybe a handful of possessions and photographs will remain but, no one will connect them with the people and stories behind them. It's like they'll die all over again.

But then, that's just the nature of it I suppose. We can't live forever. Even those who are immortalised through their work- Elvis for example. Can we truly know them through it? It's surely just a remnant of who they were or chose to present to the world. We don't have the space to remember everyone who ever existed. The idea is proposterous.

I think we tend to just pluck out examples here and there and muse on the tragedy of the human condition. Like walking through or past a graveyard at all the dead who no longer have people who mourn for them.

It is a shame that everyone will eventually be completely forgotten, yeah. Personally, the thought of my own insignificance and eventual dissappearence makes me resentful, as I am reminded of how I've been dragged to this existence for no reason just to inevitably perish. It's so lame it pisses me off—although I don't feel an anxiety due to it; I am pretty comfortable with the idea of ceasing to exist and I find it actually beautiful.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

Therapists and people tell me that blasting my brains out with a 45 is self-harm and self-hatred. I tell them they're not listening to me, suicide is my best friend and greatest comfort. I tell them I want to do it because I care about myself. I love myself and I want the pain to end. I deserve to have a humane death and exit a painful ending life. I tell them suicide is self-compassion, but they don't understand it. I don't think they can unless they experienced it themselves.

these people are required to say the government-approved ideas that they are taught in school and that the government approve. this is how they are paid, eat, and exist: they are part of the system, a slave to it, and maybe even believe their own words. but you will NEVER heard someone like this say something that contradicts what they are required to say, because fundamentally these people are all conformists.