Discussion Suicide as a Rational Act: The Abandonment of Life for Existential Uselessness

[L'absent]

Suicide is not always the result of unbearable suffering or extreme psychological pain. There is another form of suicide, less discussed and more complex, which can be motivated by a rational reflection on the futility of human existence. In this case, the decision to end one's life does not arise from a need to escape pain, but from a deep belief that life, as a whole, is devoid of meaning or purpose. The individual who comes to this conclusion does so not to avoid direct suffering, but to avoid an existence that he considers useless, insignificant and worthless, in a world that seems condemned to incessant and purposeless repetition. In this thread, I will explore suicide as an act of "extreme rationality", in which the person is not driven by an impulsive self-destructive impulse, but by a clear-headed and cold evaluation of life as a sequence of random, painful events without intrinsic purpose . Here, suicide is not an act of desperation, but a conscious and reflective choice, a way to "exit" from a game that the individual perceives as futile and meaningless.

The Rationality of Suicide

When it comes to suicide, the common view tends to focus on acute psychological suffering, desperation and the desire to be free from pain. But there is also another type of suicide that has a rational basis: a clear-eyed analysis of human life as a flow of events that lead to nothing significant. In this case, the suicidal person does not see life as something to "fight", but as a useless sequence of experiences that are not worth living. Suicide in this context can be seen as an act of "extreme rationality", a thought that is not driven by uncontrollable emotions, but by an intellectual evaluation of the value of existence. If life is perceived as an endless cycle of aimless activity, where every moment is a struggle against time and suffering (physical, psychological, social), then death may seem like the most logical choice. The person who commits suicide for this reason does not do so to avoid immediate pain, but to avoid a future that he considers inevitably painful and meaningless.

In this context, the suicidal act is not dictated by an irrational impulse, but by a clear reflection on the fact that life, despite its experiences and occasional joys, is a process without an ultimate goal or a higher purpose . Death therefore becomes the rational solution to the "madness" of existence itself, an exit from a cycle that appears meaningless.

Escape from the "Possibility of Pain"

Another motivation that can push a person to commit suicide in a rational manner is the desire to avoid an existence that is seen as intrinsically dangerous. Human life is a succession of random events, many of which can lead to "inhuman" and "dehumanizing" physical and emotional suffering. Illnesses, accidents, failures, loneliness: existence is seen for what it is... like a constant risk, a Russian roulette in which suffering can emerge at any moment, without warning.

In this scenario, suicide is not a reaction to immediate suffering, but a choice based on the assessment of existential risk. The suicidal person doesn't just want to "escape" immediate pain, but wants to avoid a life that is a minefield of painful possibilities. Death becomes a way out of an existence where every day could be the day the body or mind gives in under the weight of pain. For those who adopt this vision, life is not seen as a good to be preserved at all costs, but as a constant risk of pain and suffering. Death becomes a "rational" solution to avoid the worst, to avoid exposing oneself to the risk of an incurable disease, a devastating accident, or a life of loneliness and frustration. In this context, suicide is a choice that does not arise from the fear of pain, but from the awareness that life is a series of "traps" in which each step can lead to unmanageable suffering.

The Culture of the "Meaning of Life" and its Denial

Suicide as a rational act arises not only from an individual assessment of the risk and value of life, but also from the denial of cultural narratives that glorify life and survival. Western culture, for example, is imbued with a strong pro-life value, where survival is considered a universal and inalienable value. Life is presented as a gift not to be wasted, an opportunity that must be lived to the fullest, in all its facets. This cultural vision, however, can be overwhelming for those who come to perceive existence as purposeless, a series of acts that lead to nothing significant. Indeed, the pro-life culture itself can become a factor that pushes suicide: the individual who rejects the narrative of the "struggle for survival" and the "search for meaning" may feel alienated and overwhelmed by the pressure of having to "continue to live" only to adhere to a social norm that has no meaning. The culture that glorifies life as a value in itself can be unbearable for those who have stopped deluding themselves that living has an ultimate goal or intrinsic value.
In this sense, suicide is not just an act of rejection of suffering, but a rational response to the culture of "live at all costs". The person who commits suicide in this way rejects the idea that life must be lived, that all suffering must be faced, and that time on Earth must be "spent" in some way. Suicide becomes an act of wisdom against the cultural norm of entertaining suffering and tortured living beings that requires survival, a choice that arises from the clear reflection that life, in itself, no longer has anything to offer.

Conclusions

Suicide as a rational act is neither the result of irrational desperation nor an act of weakness, but a decision that arises from a clear-eyed evaluation of life as something devoid of meaning and purpose. In this context, suicide is not an escape from immediate suffering, but a rational and conscious response to the knowledge that life is a constant risk of pain and that it has no intrinsic value that justifies its continuation. Death, therefore, is not seen as a tragic end, but as a lucid solution to an existence that appears useless and aimless.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Life is Not only meaningless but also meaningless extreme torture prison slavery an evil imposition

 

[FuneralCry]

I understand as I'd personally always prefer to not exist, I see no point, benefit and value to existence rather I see existence as a terrible, tragic mistake, I find it deeply undesirable to exist at all, existing to me will always be the most cruel, futile burden that I've never had any interest in. There are no disadvantages to non-existence yet there is no limit as to how much one can suffer in this existence I always saw as so unnecessary, what I ultimately have a problem with is existence itself, it just causes suffering all for the sake of it and problems there was never a need for, I'd never wish to be conscious of any of this at all.

 

[Nadir]

im not gonna read all that but yeah i basically agree, but the suffering remains. Popular understood terms: depression, anxiety etc. People cite pain because they can understand that and it affirms the idea that "life is worth living!" and that person just had something wrong with them. To truly see life for what it is, a kind of play pretend delusion, a godless void of pain, a mistake of evolution an error of consciousness, takes far more reflection than most can handle. Just slap the term depression on it and be done. DONT you dare, ever, consider that life isnt worth living and to leave is actually very simple, the mere idea, seriously posed is unthinkable, too painful for most.

 

[Sutter]

Suicide is not always the result of unbearable suffering or extreme psychological pain. There is another form of suicide, less discussed and more complex, which can be motivated by a rational reflection on the futility of human existence. In this case, the decision to end one's life does not arise from a need to escape pain, but from a deep belief that life, as a whole, is devoid of meaning or purpose. The individual who comes to this conclusion does so not to avoid direct suffering, but to avoid an existence that he considers useless, insignificant and worthless, in a world that seems condemned to incessant and purposeless repetition. In this thread, I will explore suicide as an act of "extreme rationality", in which the person is not driven by an impulsive self-destructive impulse, but by a clear-headed and cold evaluation of life as a sequence of random, painful events without intrinsic purpose . Here, suicide is not an act of desperation, but a conscious and reflective choice, a way to "exit" from a game that the individual perceives as futile and meaningless.

The Rationality of Suicide

When it comes to suicide, the common view tends to focus on acute psychological suffering, desperation and the desire to be free from pain. But there is also another type of suicide that has a rational basis: a clear-eyed analysis of human life as a flow of events that lead to nothing significant. In this case, the suicidal person does not see life as something to "fight", but as a useless sequence of experiences that are not worth living. Suicide in this context can be seen as an act of "extreme rationality", a thought that is not driven by uncontrollable emotions, but by an intellectual evaluation of the value of existence. If life is perceived as an endless cycle of aimless activity, where every moment is a struggle against time and suffering (physical, psychological, social), then death may seem like the most logical choice. The person who commits suicide for this reason does not do so to avoid immediate pain, but to avoid a future that he considers inevitably painful and meaningless.

In this context, the suicidal act is not dictated by an irrational impulse, but by a clear reflection on the fact that life, despite its experiences and occasional joys, is a process without an ultimate goal or a higher purpose . Death therefore becomes the rational solution to the "madness" of existence itself, an exit from a cycle that appears meaningless.

Escape from the "Possibility of Pain"

Another motivation that can push a person to commit suicide in a rational manner is the desire to avoid an existence that is seen as intrinsically dangerous. Human life is a succession of random events, many of which can lead to "inhuman" and "dehumanizing" physical and emotional suffering. Illnesses, accidents, failures, loneliness: existence is seen for what it is... like a constant risk, a Russian roulette in which suffering can emerge at any moment, without warning.

In this scenario, suicide is not a reaction to immediate suffering, but a choice based on the assessment of existential risk. The suicidal person doesn't just want to "escape" immediate pain, but wants to avoid a life that is a minefield of painful possibilities. Death becomes a way out of an existence where every day could be the day the body or mind gives in under the weight of pain. For those who adopt this vision, life is not seen as a good to be preserved at all costs, but as a constant risk of pain and suffering. Death becomes a "rational" solution to avoid the worst, to avoid exposing oneself to the risk of an incurable disease, a devastating accident, or a life of loneliness and frustration. In this context, suicide is a choice that does not arise from the fear of pain, but from the awareness that life is a series of "traps" in which each step can lead to unmanageable suffering.

The Culture of the "Meaning of Life" and its Denial

Suicide as a rational act arises not only from an individual assessment of the risk and value of life, but also from the denial of cultural narratives that glorify life and survival. Western culture, for example, is imbued with a strong pro-life value, where survival is considered a universal and inalienable value. Life is presented as a gift not to be wasted, an opportunity that must be lived to the fullest, in all its facets. This cultural vision, however, can be overwhelming for those who come to perceive existence as purposeless, a series of acts that lead to nothing significant. Indeed, the pro-life culture itself can become a factor that pushes suicide: the individual who rejects the narrative of the "struggle for survival" and the "search for meaning" may feel alienated and overwhelmed by the pressure of having to "continue to live" only to adhere to a social norm that has no meaning. The culture that glorifies life as a value in itself can be unbearable for those who have stopped deluding themselves that living has an ultimate goal or intrinsic value.
In this sense, suicide is not just an act of rejection of suffering, but a rational response to the culture of "live at all costs". The person who commits suicide in this way rejects the idea that life must be lived, that all suffering must be faced, and that time on Earth must be "spent" in some way. Suicide becomes an act of wisdom against the cultural norm of entertaining suffering and tortured living beings that requires survival, a choice that arises from the clear reflection that life, in itself, no longer has anything to offer.

Conclusions

Suicide as a rational act is neither the result of irrational desperation nor an act of weakness, but a decision that arises from a clear-eyed evaluation of life as something devoid of meaning and purpose. In this context, suicide is not an escape from immediate suffering, but a rational and conscious response to the knowledge that life is a constant risk of pain and that it has no intrinsic value that justifies its continuation. Death, therefore, is not seen as a tragic end, but as a lucid solution to an existence that appears useless and aimless.

Precipice.

Next level of evolution or a moving past of feelings. The rational view of seeing no rules, no accomplishment, no desire, no loss, in some ways seems devoid of the emotional kit humanity carries on a daily basis, not that advanced my self.

The place of suicide in my limited view, that is still in flux, is along the same lines. It all is felt as futile, lack of meaning, lack of purpose. Came there a different way but the vista sees all of us, but by different roads. Death is a choice of nay, to a life that had the same traits for a logical end as an emotional or mental end. Could debate much the same for a physical one. The known option to live with all the atrocities and clear calculations of no meaning and purpose, loses out to something unknown. Because the unknown is not as worn and holds the promise of an end, a finishing of suffering, a bow out from the game, or a muttering of piss off.

Strange or mixed well. A person who is pro life brings a grin sometimes. How close they are in proselytizing their belief to others as zealous in opposition, and the roads so close.

I can understand stopping, just letting fists hang and a fight drop, did that myself at times. Maybe the higher faculties of reason are where we all end up at some point seeing the futility of it all. I never lived for a noble idea, never attained a calm logical sense of non existence is best. Neither did I live for a man in the sky, or any other religion. I was a straight in the mud barbarian, surviving because it was what was on the plate, the only thing on the plate. It was a notion of kindness that settled me a bit, the small animal moments of playing and pouncing that kept me going for a bit.

In the end though although a logical decision without other factors culminated in deaths firm grip, I am coming to the same conclusion but from an old goat trail up to the same precipice a person smarter than me found sooner. I'm not absent of thought, simple in my ways, but still climbing and wondering what the view looks like from where your standing, thank you taking a moment to let me see.

 

[hereornot]

I hope I don't disappoint anyone and I respect everyone's points of view.

My opinion is a little different. I believe that there is an overvaluation of maintaining life at any cost, but some issues cannot be generalized.

For example, I identify with the logic of uselessness, lack of purpose and suffering. But this is personal, I feel this in my life and rationality makes it very clear that suicide is something that would solve this problem and will not make any difference in the world.

There is no point in talking about the reasons that led me to this point, there comes a time when you realize that you are in a spiral that is difficult to escape, and even if it ends there is no useful time to recover and return to the stage where I had purpose, importance, etc. And the CTB is an obvious solution.

But it does not work for everyone, in my opinion. You cannot generalize that life is like this, it is my life that is like this.

Many people's lives are different, mine was too, and suicide makes no sense when you have importance, usefulness, purpose, happiness.

I can't be selfish enough to say that happiness doesn't exist in the world because I'm not happy. Or that life in general is useless because mine is.

And I believe it's necessary to take responsibility for dealing with this, regardless of what led to the situation in which CTB is a logical option.

Some global observations, such as the badness of some people in this world, have made me think that I prefer not to share the world with certain people. Just like those who are bothered should leave. But that works for me.

10 years ago, I wouldn't have considered CTB. When there are reasons to put up with the bad things in the world.

But it gets harder the more you discover the bad things that exist in the world. And there are many, there always have been. But I don't believe that under normal circumstances it would be a reason for CTB.

 

[DeadManLiving]

A very refreshing read. Another perspective is Colombia Professor Dr. Shelly's lecture on this ....



In the subsequent Parts II and III he covers many of these topics including the value of life under the competing valuable container theories.

 

[depthss]

i understand that the majority of suicides are a result of suffering, but i am tired of people acting like that is the only reason for suicide. i am not really in any pain, and it bothers me that people insist that i am, or they almost try to make up other reasons. my life has no purpose, nor does anyone elses. i dont think im any more worthless than anyone else lol

 

[hereornot]

i understand that the majority of suicides are a result of suffering, but i am tired of people acting like that is the only reason for suicide. i am not really in any pain, and it bothers me that people insist that i am, or they almost try to make up other reasons. my life has no purpose, nor does anyone elses. i dont think im any more worthless than anyone else lol

This is something that saddens me, this speculation, of those who don't know, how to create a version of what they think or what suits them, and they treat it as if it were the absolute truth.

My family is like that. If I really end up in the CTB, I imagine that their version of the reasons will be completely to suit their wishes and not reality.

 

[Redacted24]

Physicists have a lovely term that is apropos here: observer created reality

 

[Droso]

Forgive me for any errors or nonsensical statements, I have gotten no sleep.

While I appreciate your well thought out examination of the rational approach to suicide, I feel as if you have left out an important aspect: what rationality in this case would be.

When I was reading your post, I was thinking "Yes this makes sense… wait no, this invalidates other rational approaches to suicide". Such as the countless of sentences mentioning "immediate suffering".

Why would the inception of immediate suffering to find suicide as the best solution be irrational? There are a lot of situations in which suicide was contemplated, attempted and completed as the answer to immediate suffering that were rational. I am interested in why you display this as irrational.

There is a depth you have reached that can go further and I encourage you to reembark this topic again. This reply is in no way to diminish what you have wrote, but rather an invitation for you to go past and build upon your ideas. For the most part, I am in agreement. But we as a society, in our cultures, must take a step back and think about how we view suicide. This includes the demonization of suicidal persons that are experiencing immediate and present suffering.

 

[L'absent]

Forgive me for any errors or nonsensical statements, I have gotten no sleep.

While I appreciate your well thought out examination of the rational approach to suicide, I feel as if you have left out an important aspect: what rationality in this case would be.

When I was reading your post, I was thinking "Yes this makes sense… wait no, this invalidates other rational approaches to suicide". Such as the countless of sentences mentioning "immediate suffering".

Why would the inception of immediate suffering to find suicide as the best solution be irrational? There are a lot of situations in which suicide was contemplated, attempted and completed as the answer to immediate suffering that were rational. I am interested in why you display this as irrational.

There is a depth you have reached that can go further and I encourage you to reembark this topic again. This reply is in no way to diminish what you have wrote, but rather an invitation for you to go past and build upon your ideas. For the most part, I am in agreement. But we as a society, in our cultures, must take a step back and think about how we view suicide. This includes the demonization of suicidal persons that are experiencing immediate and present suffering.

Hi, thank you for your response and for raising these important points. It's always helpful to have a different lens with which to look at topics like these. However, I wanted to underline that what I analyzed was an aspect of suicide that is usually underestimated: the one caused by the awareness of the uselessness of existence. Let me explain better: suicide is not always caused by an instantaneous impulse and unbearable suffering: sometimes it is the result of a lucid elaboration of life and what will remain of it. I understand that there is always a deep pain behind such choices, but I think it is important to also investigate the possibility that a more definitive fan vision could lead to just as many reflections. In this sense, suicide could be seen by some people as an act of "extreme reasoning", a clear choice in life as a private and meaningful action. I agree with you on this sentiment: empathy and the deprivation of evaluative, prejudicial and judging activities are definitely essential to be able to deal with these topics. We must remember that each person experiences incarnation in different ways and discussion on these issues could help break down barriers to mutual understanding. I would like to continue discussing these ideas and understanding the different ways of "dealing" with life and suffering. Thanks again for the reply.

 

[The_Hunter]

(...)

Conclusions

Suicide as a rational act is (...) a decision that arises from a[n] evaluation of life as something devoid of meaning and purpose. In this context, suicide is not an escape from immediate suffering, but a rational and conscious response to the knowledge that life (...) has no intrinsic value that justifies its continuation. Death, therefore, is not seen as a tragic end, but as a lucid solution to an existence that appears useless and aimless.

But... meaning is subjective, isn't it?

There's no "real" or "fake" categorization in terms of meaning; if someone chooses to find meaning in something, then, whether or not that meaning is valid or logical, then they have still added real meaning and value that affects them in some comprehensible way.

And besides, doesn't any virtue of living stem from happiness & engagement achieved, rather than "obtaining meaning"? Like, if someone just dicks around and has fun without caring for any greater purpose and meaning, then for this person, life becomes worthwhile, even without meaning involved

What I mean to say, it's possible to maintain that "life has no meaning, yet can still become worthwhile, if happiness & engagement are present, to bring satisfaction where meaning could not".

This is a very prototypical version of this idea I have, and I have not developed it further, so I apologize in advance if anything seems too surface level. Many thanks to anyone who has graciously given their limited time to read this :)

 

[L'absent]

But... meaning is subjective, isn't it?

There's no "real" or "fake" categorization in terms of meaning; if someone chooses to find meaning in something, then, whether or not that meaning is valid or logical, then they have still added real meaning and value that affects them in some comprehensible way.

And besides, doesn't any virtue of living stem from happiness & engagement achieved, rather than "obtaining meaning"? Like, if someone just dicks around and has fun without caring for any greater purpose and meaning, then for this person, life becomes worthwhile, even without meaning involved

What I mean to say, it's possible to maintain that "life has no meaning, yet can still become worthwhile, if happiness & engagement are present, to bring satisfaction where meaning could not".

This is a very prototypical version of this idea I have, and I have not developed it further, so I apologize in advance if anything seems too surface level. Many thanks to anyone who has graciously given their limited time to read this :)

It is crucial to recognize that the idea of a subjective meaning to life, while it may seem attractive, does not alter the reality of its inherent emptiness. Even if someone decides to attach meaning to an experience, this does not give that meaning objective validity. Subjectivity, in this case, becomes a mask that hides a deep existential void. In this context, it is crucial to consider the drastic choices of those who, having reached a clear awareness of the absence of meaning in life, opt for suicide. These people do not act impulsively; on the contrary, they analyze and understand the reality of their existence. They recognize that, despite moments of happiness or commitment, life is intrinsically filled with suffering, loss and discomfort that ultimately lead to death.
This is an act of extreme coherence, a rational response to a condition that is completely devoid of dignity. We are, in effect, nature's laughing stock, completely slaves to what it imposes on us. Every day, we move like automatons, driven by impulses and desires that we did not choose. There is no dignity in living a life where the only certain outcome is death, and daily suffering is an integral part of existence. Life is not just meaningless; it is, without a doubt, devoid of dignity. This is evident in every aspect of our condition. Instead, many seek to escape this truth through an addiction to entertainment, creating an illusion of meaning that fails to fill the void. These people may find momentary comfort in entertainment, but it is an escape from reality that ignores the inherent suffering of existence.
Furthermore, if someone wishes, they can even attach meaning to suffering itself. This is a mechanism that many religions, particularly Abrahamic ones like Christianity, use to justify pain. They propose the idea that suffering is a down payment on heaven, promising that those who suffer will obtain a reward in the afterlife, a place that cannot be verified but is described as existential by those who profess such beliefs. This narrative adds no real meaning to life; on the contrary, it is a lie, a scam that manipulates people, promising them something they can never experience. If you decide to believe these illusory promises, you are essentially deceiving yourself. The reality remains: life, devoid of objective meaning, is a succession of sufferings and ephemeral joys. Claiming that life can be worth living without meaning is an illusion that ignores the gravity of the human condition. The search for meaning is, therefore, not just a desire, but a fundamental need of the human being, essential to face the uncertainties and inevitable suffering of this existence.

 

[The_Hunter]

(...)

Thank you for your comment; I will try to write up a response to it later when the time is good.

 

[Leichter Kampfwagen]

I'm mentally cooked right now so I'm not reading all of that (sorry) and this answer might not be coherent, but, all else equal, I think suicide is an irrational response to the discovery that life is meaningless. By this I mean that if someone was not suicidal before, it would not be rational to commit suicide after they learn this, assuming the same set of circumstances. If anything, this fact is a bulwark against suicide considering one cannot fail at life's purpose. I guess it depends on your perspective. I've never understood the life is meaningless -> suicide connection, and I've never been bothered by the lack of meaning, but maybe you explained it pretty good and I'll have to read it later.