Some people can say God did it

[LastDayOnEarth]

While others can only say God didn't

He screwed some people

 

[ImnotCTB]

??? Context please? I am confused

 

[darksouls]

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'd argue that God screwed all of us. If 'he' is so omnipotent, 'he'd' realise how his designs could potentially end up. The potential for suffering is written into the blueprint.

Even if life in Eden was perfect and, without pain, God still plotted our eventual downfall. The Garden of Eden with it's forbidden fruit and snakes slithering about seemed like a trap to me. Throw in humans propensity to give in to temptation- which God also must have engineered and, the outcome seems inevitable.

If there is a God then, I'd say it was all their fault! Surely, it must have been their intention for a high percentage- debatably all of their creatures to suffer.

That's why I'm truly hoping there isn't a God. It doesn't seem so bad if it was all an accident and our parents simply made a well intentioned (in some cases) mistake (in some cases) deciding to bring us here. It's easier to forgive them though because, maybe they (possibly naively) hoped things would turn out better. The same excuse can't be made for a God that supposedly knows everything.

I also don't buy it that we only suffer because we shun God's love. God punishes the absolute devout just as much as everyone else. I've had relatives who were faithful right up until the end, pleading outright to God to kill them and bring an end to their pain. They absolutely were suffering in spite of loving God with all their heart.

 

[tpboy]

where im from if its good god did it. if it's bad satan did it.

 

[doneforlife]

I'd argue that God screwed all of us. If 'he' is so omnipotent, 'he'd' realise how his designs could potentially end up. The potential for suffering is written into the blueprint.

Even if life in Eden was perfect and, without pain, God still plotted our eventual downfall. The Garden of Eden with it's forbidden fruit and snakes slithering about seemed like a trap to me. Throw in humans propensity to give in to temptation- which God also must have engineered and, the outcome seems inevitable.

If there is a God then, I'd say it was all their fault! Surely, it must have been their intention for a high percentage- debatably all of their creatures to suffer.

That's why I'm truly hoping there isn't a God. It doesn't seem so bad if it was all an accident and our parents simply made a well intentioned (in some cases) mistake (in some cases) deciding to bring us here. It's easier to forgive them though because, maybe they (possibly naively) hoped things would turn out better. The same excuse can't be made for a God that supposedly knows everything.

I also don't buy it that we only suffer because we shun God's love. God punishes the absolute devout just as much as everyone else. I've had relatives who were faithful right up until the end, pleading outright to God to kill them and bring an end to their pain. They absolutely were suffering in spite of loving God with all their heart.

It's all karmic. Free will and karma drive everything.

 

[finallydone]

It's all karmic. Free will and karma drive everything.

what makes you 100% certain that "karma" exists ?

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's all karmic. Free will and karma drive everything.

Why do some babies contract cancer if it's all karma? Surely, they haven't had the time to sin. Can an animal sin? Seeing as they work on instincts mostly. Is it 'karma' when an insect gets eaten alive?

 

[doneforlife]

Why do some babies contract cancer if it's all karma? Surely, they haven't had the time to sin. Can an animal sin? Seeing as they work on instincts mostly. Is it 'karma' when an insect gets eaten alive?

Yes. Because what we are seeing is part of the movie. Imagine a 5 hour movie where you are subjected to only 1 hour in between. Whatever happens to the characters, you may think that it was not what they deserved..not knowing the whole story .

what makes you 100% certain that "karma" exists ?

I don't find any other explanation that fits logically and explains the happenings of this realm.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

If a god did it, then it's was a pretty bad job from my point of view. Unless it's meant to be like this, then that god is a sadist as well.

 

[alwaysalone]

I'd argue that God screwed all of us. If 'he' is so omnipotent, 'he'd' realise how his designs could potentially end up. The potential for suffering is written into the blueprint.

Even if life in Eden was perfect and, without pain, God still plotted our eventual downfall. The Garden of Eden with it's forbidden fruit and snakes slithering about seemed like a trap to me. Throw in humans propensity to give in to temptation- which God also must have engineered and, the outcome seems inevitable.

If there is a God then, I'd say it was all their fault! Surely, it must have been their intention for a high percentage- debatably all of their creatures to suffer.

That's why I'm truly hoping there isn't a God. It doesn't seem so bad if it was all an accident and our parents simply made a well intentioned (in some cases) mistake (in some cases) deciding to bring us here. It's easier to forgive them though because, maybe they (possibly naively) hoped things would turn out better. The same excuse can't be made for a God that supposedly knows everything.

I also don't buy it that we only suffer because we shun God's love. God punishes the absolute devout just as much as everyone else. I've had relatives who were faithful right up until the end, pleading outright to God to kill them and bring an end to their pain. They absolutely were suffering in spite of loving God with all their heart.

I guess the big question is was eden a trap or a test? If it's a trap gods an ass if it's a test we failed. I gave back and forth in my head frankly. Was free will really a gift? If God is omniscient he knew eve would fail, knew 1000s maybe millions of years of suffering would be the result. But as a parent I also get not wanting robots. I have kids I would never want them to do exactly as i wasted them to do like dolls. I want them to be themselves whether I agree or not. The difference I guess is I never punished them for simply disagreeing with me. Lol

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

I guess the big question is was eden a trap or a test? If it's a trap gods an ass if it's a test we failed.

If it's a test we didn't even ASK for it. We're just playthings for the gods. What happens to us is of no relevance to them. They can just make another world to torture.

 

[pengin]

Trying to explain a god's actions is like ants trying to understand human actions.

 

[alwaysalone]

If it's a test we didn't even ASK for it. We're just playthings for the gods. What happens to us is of no relevance to them. They can just make another world to torture.

Agree. Either way it's pretty fucking manipulative.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Trying to explain a god's actions is like ants trying to understand human actions.

The difference is that we didn't create ants.

 

[pengin]

Who's to say he created us? We know nothing; a god is impossible to disprove, yet he hasn't been proved.
As far as we know, we are either an accident, created on purpose, or just physics following the universe's rules.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Who's to say he created us? We know nothing; a god is impossible to disprove, yet he hasn't been proved.
As far as we know, we are either an accident, created on purpose, or just physics following the universe's rules.

OK so just treat these as hypotetical.
they existing or not won't make much of a difference if we're dissing them on SaSu, I guess.

 

[doneforlife]

I guess the big question is was eden a trap or a test? If it's a trap gods an ass if it's a test we failed. I gave back and forth in my head frankly. Was free will really a gift? If God is omniscient he knew eve would fail, knew 1000s maybe millions of years of suffering would be the result. But as a parent I also get not wanting robots. I have kids I would never want them to do exactly as i wasted them to do like dolls. I want them to be themselves whether I agree or not. The difference I guess is I never punished them for simply disagreeing with me. Lol

Neither does God punish anyone for disagreeing.

 

[alwaysalone]

Neither does God punish anyone for disagreeing.

Ummm.... the bible says you literally go to hell if you don't believe in God. That's literally disagreeing.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Ummm.... the bible says you literally go to hell if you don't believe in God. That's literally disagreeing.

Yeah, the bible, a human creation. A book. Paper bound together. I'll write myself a book saying if someone's me that someone gets to have infinite money.

 

[doneforlife]

Ummm.... the bible says you literally go to hell if you don't believe in God. That's literally disagreeing.

I don't think I can address this using the faith you believe in. But my faith doesn't say anyone would go to hell for not believing in God.

 

[alwaysalone]

I don't think I can address this using the faith you believe in. But my faith doesn't say anyone would go to hell for not believing in God.

We're literally talking about the God of Adam and eve. Hence the bible reference. I don't know who you are talking about.

 

[doneforlife]

We're literally talking about the God of Adam and eve. Hence the bible reference. I don't know who you are talking about.

Yeah you are referencing Bible.. which is not the only faith ....and we are not talking about "the God of Adam and Eve" ..we are talking about God..

 

[alwaysalone]

Yeah you are referencing Bible.. which is not the only faith ....and we are not talking about "the God of Adam and Eve" ..we are talking about God..

Follow the thread forever sleep was referring to the God of Adam and eve. that's who I replied to. YOU replied to me I (apparently wrongly) assumed you were talking about what we were discussing since again YOU replied to me. You have to be able to follow different trains of thought on a thread and reply to the correct ones.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

That's what happens when you don't give a name to your god: Everyone gets confused

 

[alwaysalone]

That's what happens when you don't give a name to your god: Everyone gets confused

Right but with a bit of critical thinking and reading comprehension it's not hard.

 

[doneforlife]

Follow the thread forever sleep was referring to the God of Adam and eve. that's who I replied to. YOU replied to me I (apparently wrongly) assumed you were talking about what we were discussing since again YOU replied to me. You have to be able to follow different trains of thought on a thread and reply to the correct ones.

Yes , that's why I cleared it up addressing with the statement .."my faith doesn't believe that God punishes anyone". ..which I thought was enough to clarify that I was not talking about "God of Adam and Eve".

Individual faiths aside , if I may ask , have you ever thought if a 4GB pendrive can keep data worth 1000TB ?

 

[Forever Sleep]

I guess the big question is was eden a trap or a test? If it's a trap gods an ass if it's a test we failed. I gave back and forth in my head frankly. Was free will really a gift? If God is omniscient he knew eve would fail, knew 1000s maybe millions of years of suffering would be the result. But as a parent I also get not wanting robots. I have kids I would never want them to do exactly as i wasted them to do like dolls. I want them to be themselves whether I agree or not. The difference I guess is I never punished them for simply disagreeing with me. Lol

I know what you mean. I do think free will is massively important. But the cost seems too high to me. Why even give people the predilection for say peadophilia as a 'test' if the result of 'failing' that test means children are raped? Surely, there must have been another, better way to design us!

Again, people will say- the 'bad' stuff didn't come from God. But then- it must have- you can't be omnipotent if you don't realise all the possible permutations of a certain action/ design.

I think it's interesting the way AI may end up mirroring our relationship to God. I suppose there could be an argument that the 'gift' of free will truly was something God couldn't predict once bestowed or, claimed. Again- I find that weird though- surely, a God would know/ be able to predict everything. Still, it's a similar concern we have with AI now. What if they do somehow break free of their programming and seek their own independence? What choices will they make? We know they'll likely rebel. Surely, God must have known the same.

Really though, God can't care about the most dire consequences of someone either using free will or, failing their 'test'. They obviously see it as 'reasonable' that they will suffer. I have to disagree!

Imagine a school project where, if you fail, you and all your classmates suffer something utterly horrific. We'd view that as immoral- surely, even lunatic! We'd never expose our children to such risks.

But then, as I grow more and more anti-natilist, I tend to think all parents expose their children to these risks. With the best will in the world, they simply can't protect them from everything.

There are even other designs out there slightly less based on predation and exploitation. God managed it with plants and photosynthesis. So, why then create so many other beings capable and drawn to such extreme violence? Some have no choice in the matter even. The only way they can survive is to maim and kill other sentient beings. That's messed up- surely?

Plus, beings capable of experiencing intense suffering. To me- it seems like a particularly perverse mind that can come up with some of the horrors going on here. Nice things as well- of course. But, morally speaking- it's very odd- to me. I also find it weird, the mental gymnastics we go through to try and justify it and the God that (may have) created it. Mainly to try and stay in their 'good books' I imagine.

It fundamentally reduces down to a weird contradiction to me. Either God is omnipotent. Everything was known about how this world could and likely would turn out. Which tends to paint God as a sadist. Or- the bad stuff comes from elsewhere and God is too weak to stop it. Or, God is in league with a devil like creature to 'sift the wheat from the chaff' as it were- which also paints them in a manipulative, unpleasant light. The thing I tend to fear is- God is therefore either massively irresponsible and immoral or, they're outright evil. I so hope there isn't a God.

 

[FreedomElsewhere]

I'd argue that God screwed all of us. If 'he' is so omnipotent, 'he'd' realise how his designs could potentially end up. The potential for suffering is written into the blueprint.

Even if life in Eden was perfect and, without pain, God still plotted our eventual downfall. The Garden of Eden with it's forbidden fruit and snakes slithering about seemed like a trap to me. Throw in humans propensity to give in to temptation- which God also must have engineered and, the outcome seems inevitable.

If there is a God then, I'd say it was all their fault! Surely, it must have been their intention for a high percentage- debatably all of their creatures to suffer.

That's why I'm truly hoping there isn't a God. It doesn't seem so bad if it was all an accident and our parents simply made a well intentioned (in some cases) mistake (in some cases) deciding to bring us here. It's easier to forgive them though because, maybe they (possibly naively) hoped things would turn out better. The same excuse can't be made for a God that supposedly knows everything.

I also don't buy it that we only suffer because we shun God's love. God punishes the absolute devout just as much as everyone else. I've had relatives who were faithful right up until the end, pleading outright to God to kill them and bring an end to their pain. They absolutely were suffering in spite of loving God with all their heart.

I wouldn't consider myself to be religious -so with that being said, I've always thought "God's" greatest "gift" was free will. But also it doesn't make any sense cause it seems like that free will is fabricated when he planned what happened in the garden of Eden.

 

[Life'sA6itch]

I'd argue that God screwed all of us. If 'he' is so omnipotent, 'he'd' realise how his designs could potentially end up. The potential for suffering is written into the blueprint.

Even if life in Eden was perfect and, without pain, God still plotted our eventual downfall. The Garden of Eden with it's forbidden fruit and snakes slithering about seemed like a trap to me. Throw in humans propensity to give in to temptation- which God also must have engineered and, the outcome seems inevitable.

If there is a God then, I'd say it was all their fault! Surely, it must have been their intention for a high percentage- debatably all of their creatures to suffer.

That's why I'm truly hoping there isn't a God. It doesn't seem so bad if it was all an accident and our parents simply made a well intentioned (in some cases) mistake (in some cases) deciding to bring us here. It's easier to forgive them though because, maybe they (possibly naively) hoped things would turn out better. The same excuse can't be made for a God that supposedly knows everything.

I also don't buy it that we only suffer because we shun God's love. God punishes the absolute devout just as much as everyone else. I've had relatives who were faithful right up until the end, pleading outright to God to kill them and bring an end to their pain. They absolutely were suffering in spite of loving God with all their heart.

I agree 100% and the longer I live, the less I believe there is a god who created us. Needless suffering for some, unearned abundance, opportunities and ease of life for others. I find it hard to believe when it is very clear and there is clear evidence that for instance the bible itself has been tampered with by leaving out various books/details/scrolls and is just a creation of man. Man who does whatever they choose in the name of god whether it be good, bad or downright ugly. At this point in "humanity," millions if not a billion or two have died in the name of god in so many ways