Reconciling 'will to live' with 'desire to die'

[always_a_crossroads]

Hi all! First post.
I'll mostly just post what I wrote while registering on this forum, since it's a good description of where I'm at.
For most of my life, I didn't want to be alive, but I was managing and mostly functional in my daily life.
A year ago I had a stress-induced psychotic break (it was the first psychotic episode I ever had). I'm no longer psychotic - not for a long time now - but my brain hasn't been the same. Many things that felt meaningful, or fun, or interesting, just don't engage me the same way anymore. I can still find some pleasure in a few activities, and I still care about the people in my life, but I don't know if that's enough to make life worth living, to make me keep going.
It's been like that for months now. I've 'felt' suicidal before, but now it's not a "spur-of-the-moment" thing, it's something I'm deliberately considering.
I can't talk about this to most people - I tried a couple of times (e.g. with my psychiatrist), but usually that leads to a black-and-white argument, instead of the kind of nuanced discussion I need. If I mention that I still enjoy some things, or that I feel less horrible now than I did right after my episode, or that I don't want to be in pain, that's used as 'evidence' that I don't 'really' want to die and that I'm 'getting better' and 'should' be hopeful.
In these conversations, I feel like I'm forced to either 'defend' the part of me that wants to die and 'betray' the part of me that doesn't ("yes it IS that bad, yes I DO want to die - and if I 'REALLY MEAN' that I have to stop enjoying badminton and spending time with friends, and I should stop trying to get support, and I should just kill myself and be done with it"), or I have to 'defend' the part of me that wants to live and 'betray' the part that wants to die ("yes my life still has nice moments, and part of me wants to hold on to that, so I HAVE to stay alive indefinitely and be hopeful about getting better").
I need a place where I can process both sides of the story, without being forced to choose one over the other. Where "I want to die" doesn't equate with "there's nothing good in my life", and "I'm not ready to die" doesn't equate with "it's not that bad" or "I'm weak-willed and pathetic".
Maybe I'll decide to die, maybe I'll decide to live, maybe I'll stay on the fence forever, I don't know. But I really need a place where I can think and talk about this without being pressured to "choose a side" or "prove a point".

 

[setspiritfree]

Hi all! First post.
I'll mostly just post what I wrote while registering on this forum, since it's a good description of where I'm at.
For most of my life, I didn't want to be alive, but I was managing and mostly functional in my daily life.
A year ago I had a stress-induced psychotic break (it was the first psychotic episode I ever had). I'm no longer psychotic - not for a long time now - but my brain hasn't been the same. Many things that felt meaningful, or fun, or interesting, just don't engage me the same way anymore. I can still find some pleasure in a few activities, and I still care about the people in my life, but I don't know if that's enough to make life worth living, to make me keep going.
It's been like that for months now. I've 'felt' suicidal before, but now it's not a "spur-of-the-moment" thing, it's something I'm deliberately considering.
I can't talk about this to most people - I tried a couple of times (e.g. with my psychiatrist), but usually that leads to a black-and-white argument, instead of the kind of nuanced discussion I need. If I mention that I still enjoy some things, or that I feel less horrible now than I did right after my episode, or that I don't want to be in pain, that's used as 'evidence' that I don't 'really' want to die and that I'm 'getting better' and 'should' be hopeful.
In these conversations, I feel like I'm forced to either 'defend' the part of me that wants to die and 'betray' the part of me that doesn't ("yes it IS that bad, yes I DO want to die - and if I 'REALLY MEAN' that I have to stop enjoying badminton and spending time with friends, and I should stop trying to get support, and I should just kill myself and be done with it"), or I have to 'defend' the part of me that wants to live and 'betray' the part that wants to die ("yes my life still has nice moments, and part of me wants to hold on to that, so I HAVE to stay alive indefinitely and be hopeful about getting better").
I need a place where I can process both sides of the story, without being forced to choose one over the other. Where "I want to die" doesn't equate with "there's nothing good in my life", and "I'm not ready to die" doesn't equate with "it's not that bad" or "I'm weak-willed and pathetic".
Maybe I'll decide to die, maybe I'll decide to live, maybe I'll stay on the fence forever, I don't know. But I really need a place where I can think and talk about this without being pressured to "choose a side" or "prove a point".

Well then I think this is the place for you. At, least that has what it has been for me. I wish you well in your endeavors. Good to meet you by the way.

 

[Nrocoop]

Welcome. I get where you're coming from. on SS you will find people on similar journeys and I wish you all the best.

 

[J&L383]

Well then I think this is the place for you. At, least that has what it has been for me. I wish you well in your endeavors. Good to meet you by the way.

Yes this is exactly the place! You have really delved into the philosophical discussion succinctly and with sincere effort to figure it out. But it's difficult. I'm a good femce-sitter as well, so welcome to the fence.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Welcome to the forum.

I imagine therapists particularly will latch onto the good stuff to convince you that you are making progress. I think part of their job description is to try to make people think positively.

I'm not sure life is so black and white/ totally good or totally bad for people. I'm not even convinced I have depression because I can still enjoy things. For me, I suppose it's more about whether life is worth the effort. And for me personally- I don't feel that it is.

There are other complications too though for me- the wish not to deeply hurt others (my Dad mainly) and, fear of an actual suicide attempt. So, I suppose for everyone, there are often lots of contradictory thoughts in play.

In terms of the choice over choosing to follow life or death more- maybe it depends how much hope we have left. I suppose that's where positivity can come in. If you've managed to get bits and pieces of joy back, is there hope that more could be retrieved?

I guess we all have to ask ourselves- what do we want ultimately, how likely are we to get it? How much effort are we willing to put in?

I guess the healthiest thing to do and what I'm sure therapists would like, would be to banish suicidal thoughts. I suppose ideally, that might be good but, people sometimes use passive ideation as a coping mechanism. I think just knowing that we can escape can be a comfort to many of us. Whether it's ever something we seriously put into action or not, the option being there can feel like a relief.

But, this is definitely the place to discuss these sorts of thoughts. The vast majority of people are pro- choice here. So arguments- choosing life or death will be listened to.

 

[SoulCage]

Very good summary. Very similar to what I am thinking about, but can't quite express like you did.
Especially the tug of war about "betray-defend". It's always so hard to have those arguments in my head. No longer want to suffer, but at the same time not wanting others to suffer.

I hope you will be able to figure it out for yourself. Reading, interacting with this community is a lot like therapy - but without the fear of consequences like being locked up or judgment. We are all trying to figure out the best way forward...

 

[always_a_crossroads]

Thank you all so much for your kind words! Sorry it takes me ages to reply, I just don't have the spoons sometimes.

I'm not sure life is so black and white/ totally good or totally bad for people. I'm not even convinced I have depression because I can still enjoy things. For me, I suppose it's more about whether life is worth the effort. And for me personally- I don't feel that it is.

There are other complications too though for me- the wish not to deeply hurt others (my Dad mainly) and, fear of an actual suicide attempt. So, I suppose for everyone, there are often lots of contradictory thoughts in play.

I agree so much, both with "it's about whether life's worth the effort", and the wish not to hurt others, and the fear of an attempt. (For me, specifically, it's the fear of pain, discomfort, and potential consequences of surviving.)

If you've managed to get bits and pieces of joy back, is there hope that more could be retrieved?

That's the thing. I do believe that if I could muster the energy and willpower, I could get some more joy; but most of the time, the amount of joy I get is so minimal, so it doesn't feel worth it to put in that effort. I'm so tired of forcing myself to do every little thing. It's like, "I KNOW I'll feel marginally better if I leave the house, but I'd rather just feel worse and do nothing".

I think just knowing that we can escape can be a comfort to many of us. Whether it's ever something we seriously put into action or not, the option being there can feel like a relief.

Definitely. This used to be a comforting thought for me. Now that I've been researching means and methods, it's also become a stressful thought, hahah. I see how trapped I really am. "I can escape if I need to" became "if I want to escape, I have to do it through a lot of pain, fear, and loneliness".

Especially the tug of war about "betray-defend". It's always so hard to have those arguments in my head. No longer want to suffer, but at the same time not wanting others to suffer.

Yeah. I think we're kind of conditioned to see those things as "either-or", when they absolutely can co-exist.
My posting on here was precipitated by a conversation with my psychiatrist. It was like he kept trying to force me into one of two boxes inside his head, he wasn't trying to understand what I was actually saying. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but he basically pitted two parts of me against each other.
I felt so much worse after talking to him, and it took me a while to figure out why. I think it's because the "want to die" part of me felt the need to prove its point, and I felt more pressure to go and kill myself ASAP. And in response to that, the "scared to die" part of me panicked and stepped up the fear too, so I felt even more trapped between the two. And then whatever pride I have left was telling me, "if you stay alive, you'll be proving that smug bastard (the psychiatrist) right".
*sigh*
So yeah, at least I have a better understanding now. I decided, to hell with what he thinks, there's no "winning" with these kinds of people, I can't hope to get through to him. He thinks he has me pegged down, and anything I say will just be interpreted in the same framework he already has of me.
Now I'm trying to let the different parts of me say their piece, and listen to each. I think, if I were to try to CTB right now (or in the near future), my "scared to die" part would rebel. It'd either prevent me from trying, or make me fail. I'm learning about it and telling it "we don't have to do anything before we're ready".