Method PSA: Failed attempt using Argon/bag setup? This might be why...

[Not A Fan]

I've been furiously scouring the internet trying to understand some other members' failed attempts using argon + exit bag, where the failure was due to an unknown cause. My concerns were having to do with the weight of argon and the possibility that it might not fill the bag sufficiently. I just came across this on Wikipedia, somehow I had not ever read this anywhere before:



Therefore, if one is using argon, probably best to avoid the exit bag, and look into SCBA setup. Which is unfortunately way out of most people's budget and more complicated to source. Annoying, I know.. but I hope having this information can help people make more informed end-of-life decisions.

Is SCBA is not an option, we might just have to suck it up (no pun intended..) and go buy nitrogen in person from a local (US) supplier. In fact, this may ultimately be preferable, in order to avoid having to lie about packages being delivered to the house. Personally, I'm a horrible liar and terrible actor but lying to a sales clerk whom I will never again seems easier than having to lie to family members with whom I live.

Edit: On second thought, it may still be possible to use with a bag, if one were to somehow modify the design to take this into account. Perhaps making the neck part tighter would help, along with using a higher flow rate (more gas would be required.)


@mrtime87
@subconscious
@Blockz
@nevemilie

 

[Praestat_Mori]

That sounds like a very logic explanation. Thanks for sharing this info!

 

[leloyon]

Bump since I consider this important info.

 

[Not A Fan]

That sounds like a very logic explanation. Thanks for sharing this info!

In principle, argon is thought to actually be a more powerful hypoxic agent than nitrogen or helium, although I'm not sure I agree with their conclusions of it "alleviating fear."



Source: www,researchgate.net /publication/352260222_Suicide_Attempt_by_Inhalation_of_Argon_Gas

 

[Placo]

Helium, on the other hand, is lighter than air, so this problem shouldn't exist with it, keep in mind that CO2 is also heavier than air while between oxygen and nitrogen the difference is minimal even if I don't remember now which is the heavier between the two.

 

[Tears in Rain]

Is SCBA is not an option, we might just have to suck it up (no pun intended..) and go buy nitrogen in person from a local (US) supplier. In fact, this may ultimately be preferable, in order to avoid having to lie about packages being delivered to the house. Personally, I'm a horrible liar and terrible actor but lying to a sales clerk whom I will never again seems easier than having to lie to family members with whom I live.

While a nitrogen sales clerk probably won't ask you what you need a nitrogen cylinder for, in the past people have used excuses like welding, paint skimming(using nitrogen to preserve opened cans of paint), and even tyre inflation.

Nitrogen is also used in food preservation, and apparently there's a thing in the U.S. where they have 'food packing' events.
The lady in the following video shows how she uses nitrogen to preserve a bucket of rice. So individuals do use nitrogen for that kind of thing.
It's a potential excuse for you, if you're uneasy about collecting a nitrogen cylinder:

 

[Not A Fan]

Helium, on the other hand, is lighter than air, so this problem shouldn't exist with it, keep in mind that CO2 is also heavier than air while between oxygen and nitrogen the difference is minimal even if I don't remember now which is the heavier between the two.

In the US, pure helium is difficult for us to source, and the most expensive of the three, so I don't think it used very much lately, at least not successfully. Nitrogen has been considered the next best option. It is lighter than air and that is how it manages to keep the bag flushed of oxygen because it rises to the top.

While a nitrogen sales clerk probably won't ask you what you need a nitrogen cylinder for, in the past people have used excuses like welding, paint skimming(using nitrogen to preserve opened cans of paint), and even tyre inflation.

Nitrogen is also used in food preservation, and apparently there's a thing in the U.S. where they have 'food packing' events.
The lady in the following video shows how she uses nitrogen to preserve a bucket of frozen rice. So individuals do use nitrogen for that kind of thing.
It's a potential excuse for you, if you're uneasy about collecting a nitrogen cylinder:

Thanks! I will definitely make sure I have something rehearsed just in case, so I don't look like a deer in the headlights when they start making small talk. I just have a tendency to get terribly wound up and paranoid about these things, then I worry that its obvious I'm lying, which leads to further anxiety, etc. I will definitely look into some way to complete the order and payment online in order to spend as little time at the actual place as possible.

In reality there isn't much to worry about. It seems like no one on this forum who has gone to buy nitrogen, has ever reported being denied. Unless its starts to become popular with teenagers (as SN has), it's unlikely sales of nitrogen will be restricted for adults. But since these stores are unlikely to sell tanks of inert gases to random teenagers, hopefully that won't become too much of an issue.

 

[Not A Fan]

How can this be used advantageously?

 

[mrtime87]

This is probably why argon is still sold on the internet.

Sadly, I don't have a car which is why I ordered it to my home to begin with :(

 

[sameoldMantra]

Ok think about this

If is heavier so should be really tight on the neck . And has a Opening on the top of the bag instead .
The air is not going to enter and the gas can keep flowing . Kinda a fish bowl

 

[exitingtothevoid]

If is heavier so should be really tight on the neck . And has a Opening on the top of the bag instead .

I had the same thought, but co2 is heavier than argon so I think a tight neck means co2 buildup. Also concerned about the hole tearing open larger. Seems risky.

I also had the thought of doing it laying down, with my head off the end of the bed and tilted back far enough for my neck to be above my nose. That would let the argon build up in the bag and push any air out the neck. But that still has co2 buildup issues.

Maybe the best way to use argon in a exit bag is with a much higher flow rate?

 

[sameoldMantra]

The co2 Will not build up because You exhale all Your lungs before. So the co2 Will be minimun . Inert gas Will win .
You can reinforce the hole with duct tape