Discussion Opinions on Fujoshis?

[princexhhn]

As a gay man… I don't know how to feel about it. It makes me uncomfortable

What do you guys think? I'd like to hear people's perspectives on this

 

[amerie]

I'm a lady so idk if my opinion matters but I also find it weird, like I mean I don't think people should be censored from reading gay media but purposefully seeking it out and ignoring any other romance genre is screaming fetish. I'm pretty sure I've seen some Yaoi fetishizers being against gay marriage and stuff too.

 

[princexhhn]

I'm a lady so idk if my opinion matters but I also find it weird, like I mean I don't think people should be censored from reading gay media but purposefully seeking it out and ignoring any other romance genre is screaming fetish. I'm pretty sure I've seen some Yaoi fetishizers being against gay marriage and stuff too.

Yeah exactly! Gay media is just romance, just like others. It feels weird for it to suddenly just become a really specific genre when it's really just romance all the same. They purposefully only seek out mlm media which just feels weird. I'd understand if they were queer guys but… I'm 99.9% sure that fujoshis are only girls. I auto-block fujoshis most of the time because of how weird it feels when I fit into the standard of what they are obsessing over…

 

[amerie]

Yeah exactly! Gay media is just romance, just like others. It feels weird for it to suddenly just become a really specific genre when it's really just romance all the same. They purposefully only seek out mlm media which just feels weird. I'd understand if they were queer guys but… I'm 99.9% sure that fujoshis are only girls. I auto-block fujoshis most of the time because of how weird it feels when I fit into the standard of what they are obsessing over…

Exactly like as an Asian person it's giving people who ONLY listen to kpop or watch anime and refuse to watch or listen to anything else and start acting chronically online about it

 

[princexhhn]

Exactly like as an Asian person it's giving people who ONLY listen to kpop or watch anime and refuse to watch or listen to anything else and start acting chronically online about it

They think they're so "cultured" too

When I tell others I'm Chinese I have the small fear that they are one of those Chinese-BL obsessive people. I have literally met several it was so uncomfortable.

 

[avoid]

I didn't know what fujoshis is so I had to look it up:

"a Japanese term that refers to female fans of media focusing on gay male relationships, or Boys' Love (BL); and yes, fujoshi are into yaoi too, but that's generally considered the NSFW subset of BL."​

At first glance, I feel like this is just porn. In general, men are visual creatures and women are emotional creatures. So could it be that the way lesbian porn stimulates men with visuals, gay men romance (fujoshi) stimulates women emotionally? Maybe there isn't always a sexual element involved in fujoshis, but I think the comparison is still relevant. Correct me if wrong though.

Edit:
I can't really relate to this. But I can understand how discomforting it is when strangers project their fantasies onto you, especially if they use you with no regard for your feelings.

 

[monetpompo]

As a gay man… I don't know how to feel about it. It makes me uncomfortable

What do you guys think? I'd like to hear people's perspectives on this

fujo as a young kid, became trans bc i identify with males more in stories than women. i recognize the potential for fetishization when ladies don't want to read anything else like @amerie said. it's a demographic of cis women reading gay stories written by other cis women, often placing the top in a traditionally "male" role and the bottom as their wish fulfillment "submissive" role, feminine but not a girl. the popularity of twinks and feminine men are a good example of what draws fujos in, a man with andrognyous or girly features, rather than a man with body hair or muscles. the same body standards of a woman. the quantity of yaoi drawn by cis women is honestly astonishing. i don't have a strictly negative view on fujos because i recognize the thought patterns that lead to girls wanting to look at guy on guy porn. i held internal misogyny towards myself, since i generally hated being a woman and couldn't relate to the generic female experience in typical shoujo or josei romances. i feel like fujos can also come from a strict or religious family that make gay men (gay sex by extension) a paraphilia for them that they eventually grow out of, because it's taboo but also strictly a fantasy. this can also tie into the popularity of age gap romances for young girls, because they don't realize the implications of a real life older man wanting to date them.

"According to the results of her qualitative research, ten distinct motive dimensions could be identified. The first, "Pure" love without gender dimension refers to a motive to view/read romantic contents in which gender differences are not present. The Pro-gay attitude/forbidden & transgressive love dimension represents a motive to view/read materials that portray a positive picture of homosexual men. Identification/self-analysis refers to yaoi viewers' and readers' motive to better understand their own feelings and dilemmas. The Melodramatic/emotional elements dimension represents a motive to experience intense emotions. Dislike for standard romances/shoujo reflects a motive to avoid heterosexual romance stories (e.g., shoujo) due to their often one-dimensional female characters and 'boring' narratives. A female-oriented romantic/erotic genre dimension refers to a motive to consume yaoi because it caters to women's narrative preferences. Pure escapism/lack of reality reflects a motive to escape daily life. Art and aesthetics represents a motive to view/read yaoi for its distinctive graphic style. The Pure entertainment dimension refers to a motive of seeking relaxation and entertainment. Finally, Arousing/sexually titillating reflects a motive of seeking sexually arousing content."

here's a paper I found after googling why girls like BLs more, to see what other people's responses were. yaoi and yuri are very popular the opposite sexes, as well as the same sexes. i do find myself making jokes about yaoi and yuri, but the popularization of consuming gay content in the 2000s may be a factor of why there's suddenly so much discussion about it online. fujos are still a relatively niche community, so it's easy to have an outsider's perspective. i think that fetishizing, identity, and the way we connect to stories is complex, but there's also horny teen girls that are really into gay guys. i think it's really interesting to think about the ties between transitioning and consuming BL or GL, because i also know a trans girl who would read a lot of lesbian romances before coming to terms with her identity. a manga called "inside mari" covers the perversion of a man being attracted to the female body after switching bodies with a girl.

a south korean manhwa called "killing stalking" is an infamous toxic yaoi comic that focuses on an abusive relationship between a masculine man and weak femme man, something i read back in high school with another fujo girl. i think the shock factor to young girls, as well as the adrenaline rush from reading a psychological horror/forced romance is a good blueprint for what makes a person interested in BL. the need for escapsim makes people seek out all kind of content, especially sexual.

 

[Pluto]

 

[monetpompo]

View attachment 176570

you are so topical. amazing journalism

 

[princexhhn]

fujo as a young kid, became trans bc i identify with males more in stories than women. i recognize the potential for fetishization when ladies don't want to read anything else like @amerie said. it's a demographic of cis women reading gay stories written by other cis women, often placing the top in a traditionally "male" role and the bottom as their wish fulfillment "submissive" role, feminine but not a girl. the popularity of twinks and feminine men are a good example of what draws fujos in, a man with andrognyous or girly features, rather than a man with body hair or muscles. the same body standards of a woman. the quantity of yaoi drawn by cis women is honestly astonishing. i don't have a strictly negative view on fujos because i recognize the thought patterns that lead to girls wanting to look at guy on guy porn. i held internal misogyny towards myself, since i generally hated being a woman and couldn't relate to the generic female experience in typical shoujo or josei romances. i feel like fujos can also come from a strict or religious family that make gay men (gay sex by extension) a paraphilia for them that they eventually grow out of, because it's taboo but also strictly a fantasy. this can also tie into the popularity of age gap romances for young girls, because they don't realize the implications of a real life older man wanting to date them.

"According to the results of her qualitative research, ten distinct motive dimensions could be identified. The first, "Pure" love without gender dimension refers to a motive to view/read romantic contents in which gender differences are not present. The Pro-gay attitude/forbidden & transgressive love dimension represents a motive to view/read materials that portray a positive picture of homosexual men. Identification/self-analysis refers to yaoi viewers' and readers' motive to better understand their own feelings and dilemmas. The Melodramatic/emotional elements dimension represents a motive to experience intense emotions. Dislike for standard romances/shoujo reflects a motive to avoid heterosexual romance stories (e.g., shoujo) due to their often one-dimensional female characters and 'boring' narratives. A female-oriented romantic/erotic genre dimension refers to a motive to consume yaoi because it caters to women's narrative preferences. Pure escapism/lack of reality reflects a motive to escape daily life. Art and aesthetics represents a motive to view/read yaoi for its distinctive graphic style. The Pure entertainment dimension refers to a motive of seeking relaxation and entertainment. Finally, Arousing/sexually titillating reflects a motive of seeking sexually arousing content."

here's a paper I found after googling why girls like BLs more, to see what other people's responses were. yaoi and yuri are very popular the opposite sexes, as well as the same sexes. i do find myself making jokes about yaoi and yuri, but the popularization of consuming gay content in the 2000s may be a factor of why there's suddenly so much discussion about it online. fujos are still a relatively niche community, so it's easy to have an outsider's perspective. i think that fetishizing, identity, and the way we connect to stories is complex, but there's also horny teen girls that are really into gay guys. i think it's really interesting to think about the ties between transitioning and consuming BL or GL, because i also know a trans girl who would read a lot of lesbian romances before coming to terms with her identity. a manga called "inside mari" covers the perversion of a man being attracted to the female body after switching bodies with a girl.

a south korean manhwa called "killing stalking" is an infamous toxic yaoi comic that focuses on an abusive relationship between a masculine man and weak femme man, something i read back in high school with another fujo girl. i think the shock factor to young girls, as well as the adrenaline rush from reading a psychological horror/forced romance is a good blueprint for what makes a person interested in BL. the need for escapsim makes people seek out all kind of content, especially sexual.

Yeah I see your points. Gay media in general helps queer people come to terms with themselves as well. My biggest problem with fujos is the cishet women who are blatantly … just fetishizing. I still do find the very existence of fujos weird, as if you're clarifying that you are a fan of specifically mlm media when you're not even a guy and possibly not even queer at all. Liking queer media is fine, but I see fujos who don't even consume any other kind of romance or queer genres. It just strikes as a little strange to me. I also don't like that BL is a whole 'nother genre, it's just romance all the same isn't it? There's GL, BL, straight romance… it's romance all the same, no different than each other except with genders. Feels similar to men who watch lesbian porn cause they think it's hot.

And yeah, I remember Killing Stalking. I read it out of morbid curiosity and never finished it.

 

[psp3000]

fujoshis, himejoshis, men who watch "lesbian" pornography, and [slur] hags

they are strange

also I find them annoying because they tend to enforce/perpetuate stupid stereotypes

if you showed a fujoshi a piece of artwork by Tom of Finland they would kill themselves I think

 

[Scythe]

I've known quite a few fushojis, in fact I think I for some reason attract them, despite never having dated nor do they know what I look like. I'm a man but that's not the reason they talk to me. All I can say is yeah there's psycho ones, the ones i know are kinda psycho, but they keep the psycho to themselves in their private lives. They don't do it irl, they talk about it with me but I'm okay with that.

I know there's really crazy ones out there and that's why fushojis have shit reputation.

 

[princexhhn]

To OP. As a 6'5 with a manly muscular body, come and criticize me too. I'm not too big and manly to be criticized, am I?

?what are you talking about

 

[amerie]

?what are you talking about

I think bro has a fetish that you accidentally triggered unfortunately

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Didn't even know what you were talking about, had to google. I don't know honestly, maybe trans men like this type of writing? other than that I don't really see a reason too, just like someone else said men who watch lesbian in the porn category while not even being trans woman OR A WOMAN (oops I forgot to add this, WOW that's funny, I actually consider both in the word women but I felt I needed to explain that people who are transgender might be inclined to these categories so I labeled them separately for reading sake and now I've written a paragraph here so it's all ruined), it's just weird.


I guess if you like romance movies or stories of any kind, it's not that weird? it's just that you want to see more variety in characters? But as a fetish? to have when you are supposedly a woman and you are not a man attracted to men, it seems like a fetish.

 

[princexhhn]

I think bro has a fetish that you accidentally triggered unfortunately

No words can describe how horrified I am at that. I don't even get what he's saying… he's asking to be criticized when nobody was talking to him in the first place. I'm asexual = don't have much exposure to those things so I didn't realize it without your help, was just genuinely confused

 

[cowplantabduction]

Fujoshi doesn't mean "fetishize gay men" or "only seeks out gay media." In Japan it literally just means any woman who enjoys BL. Any man who enjoys BL is a fudanshi. It has a negative meaning because homophobic people think gay media is inherently disgusting and anyone who enjoys it must be rotten, so the fujoshis/fudanshis chose to reclaim the term to show they don't care what bigots think.

I'm a fudanshi and I don't like when people try to reinterpret fujoshi to mean something else. Some fujoshis might be fetishizing but not all of them as that's simply not what the term means. By saying all fujoshis make you uncomfortable you're on the same side as homophobes here.

 

[mirror_mercury]

i took estrogen in the past
sk8 - the infinity, was incredible
the thrill, it made me cry girly tears

rooting for my favorite character
witnessing the competition
being enamored

 

[princexhhn]

By saying all fujoshis make you uncomfortable you're on the same side as homophobes here.

I said that they made me uncomfy because the fujoshis I've met before were (unfortunately) the fetishizing ones. It was just not a pleasant experience for me, and happened more than once which kinda led me to thinking that fujoshis are just like that.

Glad you could offer this perspective, though

 

[Unsure and Useless]

My post is obviously going to be biased because I am a fujoshi/fudanshi (and have been for several years now), so, yeah, take that as you will

Personally, as long as it's all fictional, I couldn't care less. At the end of the day, it's a story that has well-drawn smut and good-looking men. As long as you (as in the general 'you') can differentiate the characters on the screen from real people, then there shouldn't be a problem. It shouldn't be that hard anyways; I fail to see how some random man looks anything like, let's say, Jung-hae from Midnight Men. The moment one starts being delusional and associating real queer men with fictional characters (which is already insulting) is the same moment they need to touch grass

Liking queer media is fine, but I see fujos who don't even consume any other kind of romance or queer genres. It just strikes as a little strange to me. I also don't like that BL is a whole 'nother genre, it's just romance all the same isn't it? There's GL, BL, straight romance… it's romance all the same, no different than each other except with genders.

They're all in their own category because each of them are different, and I don't mean this in a "one is two men, one is two girls, etc"

Take the "she's her wife, Harold" joke, for example. A straight romance story wouldn't be able to cover that joke simply because being straight is considered the norm, and a BL story wouldn't be able to portray it accurately because the relationship between two men is treated differently than the relationship between two women. However, a GL story would because this applies strictly to WLW relationships and how sapphic women are erased because women, in general, have never been treated as individuals as agency but rather props for their "keepers", typically their husbands or fathers

Whether we like it or not, gender norms affect the way a story is perceived, and by changing the gender of one of the participants in a relationship that is central to a plot, one is potentially altering the way it's perceived

I'm not really eloquent enough to break this down in a way that makes sense, but here's another example I made up:

"Masculine Man x Feminine Woman: The Story" -> A plot of two people with wildly different interests learning to get along and developing feelings for each other along the way

"Masculine Man x Feminine Man: The Story: -> A plot of two people with wildly different interests learning to get along and developing feelings for each other along the way that also deals with the pressure on men to not do anything deemed "girly"

 

[tooBadTooLate]

Gay. Good for them.

 

[Lady_V]

Former fujoshi here. While I never let interests bleed over into real life, I did only read/watch boys love entertainment for along time (still do sometimes). For me it was a way to consume sexual content without involving women so I didn't have to think of myself in those scenarios. Hentai is made by men, for men. As a result a lot of the content is very problematic, hyper unrealistic, and downright abusive towards women and young girls. While boys love also has the same issues, it's not as prevalent as it is in normal hentai and it' s easier to disconnect from it because girls are involved. Yaoi is usually made by women and for the female gaze. Making it much more appealing than the other options, especially when you are younger and just exploring sexuality.

 

[princexhhn]

Yaoi is usually made by women and for the female gaze.

I read your whole reply and yeah I understand your point but yaoi being made by women for women feels kind of… off? Cause yk, gay men are real and I am one, and the idea of mlm media made by not mlm people also for not mlm people when queer media was supposed to be a means of representing the queer community… I don't know

That's just what I think about it but correct me if I'm wrong, since I did create this thread for discussing

 

[iamanavalanche]

utter weirdos

 

[Lady_V]

I read your whole reply and yeah I understand your point but yaoi being made by women for women feels kind of… off? Cause yk, gay men are real and I am one, and the idea of mlm media made by not mlm people also for not mlm people when queer media was supposed to be a means of representing the queer community… I don't know

That's just what I think about it but correct me if I'm wrong, since I did create this thread for discussing

The bulk of yaoi IS made for the female gaze. It's not supposed to be representative of queer communities any more than hentai is for straight ones. Especially when the bulk of it comes from a queer repressive culture. If you have an issue with it, that's okay, it's not for you, but it's not going anywhere. There is yaoi made by gay men but it's not as popular since the gay community that consumes drawn porn is tiny. As someone who has read yaoi made by gay men I would also say it's not representative of queer communities either. Cuz it's like... just porn, dude.

 

[R. A.]

Pornography is commodification.
Some people are aware of this, most aren't.
/thread

 

[shampoo sniffer]

Yaoi is made by and for straight women.

If you're gay you'd probably like bara more. It's actually made by gay men for gay men.

Although I'm of the opinion that all forms of pornography are best avoided.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

I'm not a fujoshi, but I feel like it's not really my business to scrutinize what fictional media others consume, though I think it is important to look at media with a critical eye. What content others enjoy in their own free time doesn't bother me in the slightest, since it is all fantasy and fiction ultimately. I'm a bisexual woman, and I could care less if straight men like to read Yuri/lesbian stories about fictional characters.

At the end of the day, it's all fiction, and while people might have different motivations for why they enjoy specific characters or narratives (like being attracted to seeing two guys kissing) I don't feel like it's right to tell others they can't enjoy something even if it wasn't necessarily written for their specific demographic as the target audience, because it would be quite limiting if it was only acceptable to read things written for people who are exactly like us and nothing else.

If that was the case, there would be a lot of media I've consumed that I wouldn't be allowed to like, because it wasn't made for me or necessarily representative of me: i.e. films written for a male audience, anime/cartoons that are childish, Korean or Chinese films where the entire cast is from that culture, etc.

Also, there are a lot of bad/embarrassing representations of marginalized groups I belong to in the media, but I don't really fault anyone for liking those shows like the Big Bang theory, The Good Doctor, etc because it's not like those characters are real. If they were most people irl wouldn't find Sheldon Cooper very funny, they'd just think he's an asshole.

 

[princexhhn]

I don't feel like it's right to tell others they can't enjoy something even if it wasn't necessarily written for their specific demographic as the target audience

That wasn't my point.