Living and Learning (Sonic 3 Review)

[Dr Iron Arc]

Well here it is. After one weekend to stew on it and seeing the movie twice, you're probably all at the edge of your seats wondering what exactly I thought about this movie, no this THING that was the very last thing I felt compelled to live for. If you want the short version I'd say that it's good, great even. At least a 9/10. I am actually very glad that I stayed alive to witness this.

I have seen both of the previous two films many times recently so I know for a fact that this is absolutely the best one. I'll start with all the positives before eventually diving into my gripes and nitpicks and then I'll finish this with my own thoughts about how this can tie to some of the deeper issues that even we on Sanctioned Suicide discuss sometimes. There will also be heavy unmarked spoilers here but I'm sure you expect that. If you still haven't seen it, walk away. I know it's not out in some countries yet but I hope you can hold out before spoiling yourself.

The absolute strongest part of this movie is Shadow the Hedgehog. Every scene he's in you can tell that's where almost all of the animation and VFX budget went. Keanu Reeves does a much better job voicing him here than he does in the Shadow Generations DLC which felt a little phoned in at times. There are a couple lines which I felt could have used another take though. They're not too distracting but I did kind of feel it sounded like he had cotton balls in his mouth when saying some of his lines. Luckily that is not an issue for the heaviest and most serious scenes. Even the few comedic scenes Shadow has are still done very well and one feels like kind of a lowkey reference to one of the funniest memes about Shadow.

As for Sonic himself, he's very annoying but that how he's always been in these movies. When the time comes for him to lock in he still does. Him getting appropriately angry when his adoptive father is potentially killed is when the movie really turns up. Those last thirty minutes are so good man. I was also surprised that Tails and Knuckles actually feel very well utilized here and are given just the right amount of screentime.

I'd say maybe the worst thing about the movie is how they did Gerald Robotnik. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind that he's alive. I also love that he's also played by Jim Carrey. Carrey was the best part of the first movie and he's still good in the second one and this one now he gets to play two Eggmen? Genius. The scenes with them are definitely the weakest parts for the most part though like. I mean there's still some good moments and funny jokes between them and the acting is very impressive when they're on screen at the same time. Near the end when Gerald says to Eggman "Oh Ivo, you're no Maria." I felt that. It's done really really well. But then during later like the big climactic Live and Learn action scene it cut to the two Robotniks fighting childishly which I think was an editing mistake. They should have kept each scene completely separate or maybe shortened the Jim Carrey bits somewhat. Other than that though MAN. That climax! Seeing Super Sonic versus Super Shadow?!? I know they've teamed up a lot but never have they fought directly against each other. The fight scenes and action are all so cool in this movie. I do wish we had more Shadow in it though.

Ah yes, relating this to suicide. You may wonder how this PG-rated movie could even come close to that. Well I'm happy to say that even though this is mostly a movie for kids they do treat Maria's death with all the seriousness it deserves. I actually think it's smart to have her die from an explosion caused by an errant gunshot instead of directly through the guns like in the games. This way, it was difficult for the audience to really get a laugh out of the situation just like so many Sonic fans were planning to do and just like I did during the Sonic Symphony. The way they did Maria was also pretty cool. I was hoping that when she played Live and Learn on the guitar at the beginning that they'd use that as a plot element but I'm also fine with that riff just being a motif for him for the rest of the movie.

Oh yeah, suicide. So after the tragic death of Maria both Gerald Robotnik and Shadow want to destroy the whole world out of revenge. Of course this is a kids movie so that's a bad thing but I wonder how many of us have been driven to similar motivations if we just had the power? There's also the part where Sonic goes Super and right when he's beating the snot out of Shadow he's like really about to kill him. This might also seem out of character for any Sonic but is it? Even Shadow realizes he just wants his pain to end so he's really about to let Sonic just kill him. It's solved when Sonic realizes the theme of the movie which is that we all have to make choices, and we have to do our best to make sure they're good ones. The way I took it is that live, die, whichever, it all has to be the right one. The quiet where Sonic and Shadow are just sitting on the moon. My god. That's cinema.

I think now more than anything I really want to Live, and maybe also Learn what that means for me. I don't know if this is also a formal announcement but let's just say for now my CTB is on an indefinite hiatus.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I seen that movie too with my brother and it certainly had some cool moments within the movies but the robotnik comedy scenes definitely weren't for me. In your attempt to link that movie to suicide and this site, I'm surprised at how you didn't touch upon eggman's feeling of loneliness and having nobody appreciate him for who he is since loneliness is a big theme on this site. And, on top of that, betrayal would be good theme as well since I assume some suicidal people dealt with a fair share of that just like how gerald used eggman for his own gain only.

I really liked gerald for wanting to destroy the world since I consider it heroic if this planet were to be blown to pieces although I would argue from more so a pro mortalist perspective rather than being filled with anger and hatred due to the death of a loved one. I consider eggman's ideals to be the evil one here since he wants to rule the world, not destroy it but, all in all, his sacrifice in the end has been well executed I guess

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I seen that movie too with my brother and it certainly had some cool moments within the movies but the robotnik comedy scenes definitely weren't for me. In your attempt to link that movie to suicide and this site, I'm surprised at how you didn't touch upon eggman's feeling of loneliness and having nobody appreciate him for who he is since loneliness is a big theme on this site. And, on top of that, betrayal would be good theme as well since I assume some suicidal people dealt with a fair share of that just like how gerald used eggman for his own gain only.

I really liked gerald for wanting to destroy the world since I consider it heroic if this planet were to be blown to pieces although I would argue from more so a pro mortalist perspective rather than being filled with anger and hatred due to the death of a loved one. I consider eggman's ideals to be the evil one here since he wants to rule the world, not destroy it but, all in all, his sacrifice in the end has been well executed I guess

True I was actually going to mention that the theme of the trilogy as a whole seems to be loneliness, and then I happened to read an article today where someone who worked on the movie basically confirmed it!



I do like what they did with Eggman's sacrifice though I will agree most of the comedic scenes with him and Gerald are hit or miss. If this really is Jim Carrey's final Acting role then it's a good one to end on at least. He really put his heart and soul into the two roles.

My grand theory for the Sonic 4 movie is that they hopefully manage to successfully meld the stories of Sonic CD and Sonic Heroes well. If there's time travel involved hopefully they can get the best hedgehog Silver in there. If they really REALLY wanted to cook for the next movie they should make Sonic 4 have two parts just like the Sonic 4 game.

 

[EternalShore]

I watched it too now and read all your guys' stuff on it~ :) It was good~ :) I would've preferred it to be a more accurate blending of Sonic Adventure 2 and Shadow tho~ :)
I was really hoping for Biolizard to appear, but it's kinda hard considering that Shadow is an alien (like Sonic) rather than an artificial lifeform infused with alien blood~ and well, Amy breaking Sonic out of prison~ xD but well, she didn't appear until after the end, and GUN didn't really "oppose" Sonic at all outside of Sonic saying it like once~ and ig, it makes more sense (since GUN knew of Shadow) that way but oh well~
Gerald Robotnik appearing was pretty cool! ^_^ especially since he was the whole villain of Sonic Adventure 2, so I loved it when he made Eggman the good guy just like in the games! ^_^

I liked the references tho! :) Like to Chao in Space, Chaos Spear, Shadow's limiters, and various Sonic Adventure 2 scenes and dialogue~ xD

Contrary to you, it didn't really stop any sewer slidal feelings within me but oh well~

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I watched it too now and read all your guys' stuff on it~ :) It was good~ :) I would've preferred it to be a more accurate blending of Sonic Adventure 2 and Shadow tho~ :)

Yeah, I do wish they had had some of the key elements of Sonic Adventure 2 like Maria having an incurable disease or the fake Chaos Emerald or even Rouge the Bat but I guess they just couldn't figure out a way to fit it all in and I guess they chose to keep Gerald alive so that he'd be more of a threat.

I was really hoping for Biolizard to appear, but it's kinda hard considering that Shadow is an alien (like Sonic) rather than an artificial lifeform infused with alien blood~

The Bioloizard technically DID appear.
It was in the monster movie that Shadow and Maria were watching in the flashback. The one that said "BEWARE THE ALIEN FREAK". That's why it's extra neat when later Shadow expresses angst that the other scientists look at him like he's that thing from that movie they saw.

I too find it interesting that he's purely an alien now and not a science experiment. I wonder if they'll expand on that more in the Shadow spin-off series that's supposed to come out?

 

[EternalShore]

Yeah, I do wish they had had some of the key elements of Sonic Adventure 2 like Maria having an incurable disease or the fake Chaos Emerald or even Rouge the Bat but I guess they just couldn't figure out a way to fit it all in and I guess they chose to keep Gerald alive so that he'd be more of a threat.

I forgot about the fake chaos emerald ngl~ xD yeahhh, the Gerald part made sense to me at least! :) Altho, I think having someone try to kill everyone 50 years after they died is neat too tho~ >_<

The Bioloizard technically DID appear.
It was in the monster movie that Shadow and Maria were watching in the flashback. The one that said "BEWARE THE ALIEN FREAK". That's why it's extra neat when later Shadow expresses angst that the other scientists look at him like he's that thing from that movie they saw.

woah! So cool! >w< I didn't notice that! hehe~ I thought it was just some old movie that they had the rights to just like how they make a bunch of references to other movies! xD but that's wayyy better! >w< I'm glad the Biolizard did appear after all~ :) even if not in the form I was expecting! hehe~

I too find it interesting that he's purely an alien now and not a science experiment. I wonder if they'll expand on that more in the Shadow spin-off series that's supposed to come out?

oh yeah~ My dad told me that apparently, there was a Knuckles TV series, so they'll have a Shadow one now too~ crazy~ perhaps they will then! :3

 

[whitetaildeer]

My word. This review is excellent. Thank you for making it. I'm well over 2 weeks late to replying to this (sorry!), but I'm happy to see that this thread was made at all. Also, your love for Sonic is infectious; I haven't been involved in the Sonic fandom since 2019, but reading this is making me want to sit down and replay the games. If that means anything to you!

You're 100% right about Shadow being the best part of this film. Did not know how well Keanu would fit as his VA until I got it! During the one scene in Tokyo where Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles all jump out of the helicopter and confront Shadow, I think it's so telling that he doesn't immediately resort to violence. I know the line "You jumped out of a G.U.N. helicopter; there's nothing to talk about" is thrown around a lot, but I think him being confused about why Sonic looks like him is much, much more twisty. Maybe it's just a frankensteined reference to the White Jungle and... whatever city Shadow and Sonic initially met in from SA2 (again, it's been years! Please forgive me for not knowing), but he genuinely seems so confused as to why Sonic looks like him. Not in a, "you look exactly like me" way, but in a "you're like me" way. As if-- after so many years of (I'm assuming) thinking he was the only "alien freak" out there-- it's both confusing and appalling that, when he finally meets one, they're working for the very organization that's hurt him the most.

And that one scene with Sonic when Tom had the fake out death has lived in my mind rent-free for a while. Was Shadow just having a flashback to when Maria died, or was he seeing himself in Sonic's position, through that memory? Either option is sad to think about, but if it's the latter, it says so much that, when he sees Sonic again, he admits that Sonic "now knows how he feels" and "has made the seem choices he has," yet mocks him for making those same choices ("Your anger was too much." / "What kind of a hero abandons his friends to pursue revenge? Abandons his family?" / "And here I thought you cared for them. Especially-- what's his name-- Tom?"). I truly don't think this was him talking out of his ass; I think that he truly grappled with who he was, hated himself for being so angry, but saw destroying the Earth as the only way to not just get revenge for Maria, but to atone for how he's failed her by becoming something she'd hate... even if it's not a particularly nice means of doing so.

Oh. And Sonic's own "flashback" to Tom telling him that "you didn't let your pain change who you are, in here [the heart]." If memory serves me right, didn't Shadow also have a scene similar to this with Maria? If I'm going somewhere with this whole "Shadow hates himself and wants to atone for Maria because of who he's become", the fact that he pointed at his heart as well... ough.

You've said everything that could be said about Gerald. "Oh, Ivo, you're no Maria." Thanks SEGA; guess I didn't need my heart! But anyway. The fact that he didn't care about Ivo's life at all, and the way he saw Shadow not as an individual, but an extension of Maria? And then used him as a means to an end? At least there was somewhat of an attachment to Ivo (Gerald made them matching suits, ffs), but Shadow? Nothing. And in the games, Shadow was made as the ultimate lifeform to help Maria for her incurable disease-- I'm not the most attentive person, but I'm wondering if there was a similar purpose in mind here. Was Shadow just made as a friend for Maria, and nothing else? If so, is he being seen and treated as if he was just a (now dead) child's favorite, now disposable toy?

Oh. And that end credits scene. Nothing introspective to say; this is just me being indulgent for the sake of it:

Spoiler

METAL SONIC. I'm hoping he evolves into Neo Metal Sonic (he broke my brain back in 2018!) So happy to see he's finally on the big screen and that he's getting the love he deserves. Way back yore, you'd be lucky to find like, 8 pieces of fanart for Neo. We were truly living on scraps! Felt like a Victorian child begging for a loaf of bread on the streets...

Anyways. Super sorry for the (likely incoherent) dump of text! This is mostly just me thinking out loud, and I don't think I could ever do your review justice, but it got my brain going and I'm very thankful for that. Again, thank you for writing this. And thank you for reading, if you somehow managed to trudge through this mess!

(edit: hang on. IT'S YOU! how did i not notice??? of course YOU made this post!)

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Spoiler

METAL SONIC. I'm hoping he evolves into Neo Metal Sonic (he broke my brain back in 2018!) So happy to see he's finally on the big screen and that he's getting the love he deserves. Way back yore, you'd be lucky to find like, 8 pieces of fanart for Neo. We were truly living on scraps! Felt like a Victorian child begging for a loaf of bread on the streets...

Spoiler

My perfect vision for the Sonic 4 movie would be that it gets split into two parts or 'episodes' with an episode Metal. It would be the funniest revision on Sonic 4 the games by making them actually cool. I also hope the plot is a mix of Sonic CD and Heroes with Neo Metal and thus Metal Overlord being the final threats. I also hope they manage to somehow fit Silver into the two movies, maybe as the post credit scene and tease in "episode 1" leading into episode 2. Those are just my hopes for it anyway.

(edit: hang on. IT'S YOU! how did i not notice??? of course YOU made this post!)

Me? Do I know you?

 

[astr4]

Me? Do I know you?

you're an icon!!!

 

[whitetaildeer]

Me? Do I know you?

lol, no, you do not! i had been lurking here infrequently for a while so i'd seen you around, and i had sworn there was someone else on here who was really into sonic. lo and behold, it was you! i'm so sorry if that came off as weird!

My perfect vision for the Sonic 4 movie would be that it gets split into two parts or 'episodes' with an episode Metal. It would be the funniest revision on Sonic 4 the games by making them actually cool. I also hope the plot is a mix of Sonic CD and Heroes with Neo Metal and thus Metal Overlord being the final threats. I also hope they manage to somehow fit Silver into the two movies, maybe as the post credit scene and tease in "episode 1" leading into episode 2. Those are just my hopes for it anyway.

this is really clever! sonic 4 was so terrible it was the first game i ever considered refunding, but i ultimately didn't because i wanted as many sonic games as i could collect at the time. i remember episode metal being kind of okay?

lmao @ the movies actually making sonic 4 seem good. there would definitely be some poor soul who was tricked into thinking this by the movie, only to get sorely disappointed. can already imagine the twitter post(s) about this.

thinking about both your idea and how easily amy tore down the metal clones... i'm wondering if, like in heroes, metal will go through multiple upgrades in the movies to become more and more powerful? something tells me stone will have more of a role to play in the next movie, especially pertaining to metal, and, like in cd, time travel. i don't remember eggman surviving at the end? my memory is terrible so i may be wrong.

i would absolutely LOVE to see silver in these movies. i can't think of very many other characters that would get that chance, except maybe rouge? i would love to see blaze as well but that's wishful thinking, and i know s06 technically isn't canon, but i think those two pair together really well. but i also think he and knuckles would somehow have some pretty funny banter.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

lol, no, you do not! i had been lurking here infrequently for a while so i'd seen you around, and i had sworn there was someone else on here who was really into sonic. lo and behold, it was you! i'm so sorry if that came off as weird!

Nah, that's alright. I was just a tad paranoid that I'd been found by someone who may know me personally but that makes sense.

thinking about both your idea and how easily amy tore down the metal clones... i'm wondering if, like in heroes, metal will go through multiple upgrades in the movies to become more and more powerful? something tells me stone will have more of a role to play in the next movie, especially pertaining to metal, and, like in cd, time travel. i don't remember eggman surviving at the end? my memory is terrible so i may be wrong.

i would absolutely LOVE to see silver in these movies. i can't think of very many other characters that would get that chance, except maybe rouge? i would love to see blaze as well but that's wishful thinking, and i know s06 technically isn't canon, but i think those two pair together really well. but i also think he and knuckles would somehow have some pretty funny banter.

It was intentionally left open to interpretation whether Eggman survived. It's pretty unlikely any normal human could have survived that but then again maybe Shadow saved him at the last second or maybe a wormhole opened up leaving Eggman to be able to meet other characters (wouldn't it be neat if it was like the Chaotix or something). I mean I think they left it so it could go either way based on whether Jim Carey would wanna stick around for the next movie, which he's apparently already confirmed he'd be willing to do after a short break. If they do take elements from Sonic Heroes it would be nice to see if Eggman is actually missing throughout most of the 4th movie only to reveal he was somehow kidnapped by Metal Sonic just like in that game though I do also like the idea of Metal being a Stone creation.

Adding Silver and Blaze would be really cool because hopefully it would prompt the game developers to expand on their dynamic more in a future game. I really hope they can make it happen again and remind us all why we love them like they did with Shadow in Shadow Generations.

you're an icon!!!

I suppose I am to this site.