Help Inert gas method (nitrogen or helium)

[heavenplzhelp77]

I need help with information about the inert gas method i already saw a post that recommended too much of a unnecessary quantity of gas considering that if you breath pure helium or any other inert gas for five minutes or even less it'll be sufficient to be lethal so please does anyone know how much helium do you need to be lethal is 7 litters enough for one to breath it for 5 minutes?! Plz can anyone explain how do the quantities work (five minutes and a plastic bag should do the job right!)

 

[DoubleUp8]

When I looked into helium at 1st thought it be easy. But then discovered all the easily obtainable helium like helium tanks from party city and other places isn't pure enough. And obtaining helium pure enough is next to impossible. I don't know about nitrogen or other gasses. I know that i need to die. I gotta do something. Maybe combine methods. Some here have suggested.

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

When I looked into helium at 1st thought it be easy. But then discovered all the easily obtainable helium like helium tanks from party city and other places isn't pure enough. And obtaining helium pure enough is next to impossible. I don't know about nitrogen or other gasses. I know that i need to die. I gotta do something. Maybe combine methods. Some here have suggested.

Actually I have found helium that's pure enough so how much does one actually need? Would seven litters be enough?! Does it go for five minutes!

 

[Kapsyl]

You'll need approximately 12-15 min of inert gas at minimum to successfully ctb, since that's the time it takes for the cells to completely die. Sure the bag may stuck in front of the mouth depriving you from oxygen that way, but I wouldn't count on it.

At the recommended flow rate (15/lpm) 225 liters of inert gas is the minimum amount of gas. But because of practice runs or other unforeseen weak points is recommended to at least double the gas to around 400 liters. I would personally say 1000 liters to be sure, the amount only becomes unnecessary large over 3000l maybe.

All inert gases are compressed to around 100-200 times of atmospheric pressure. The cylinder may start at 7 liters but compressed 200 times it equals to 1400 liters approximately. Most cylinders list their total volume or pressure, you have to look at these numbers to determine how big your cylinder is.

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

You'll need approximately 12-15 min of inert gas at minimum to successfully ctb, since that's the time it takes for the cells to completely die. Sure the bag may stuck in front of the mouth depriving you from oxygen that way, but I wouldn't count on it.

At the recommended flow rate (15/lpm) 225 liters of inert gas is the minimum amount of gas. But because of practice runs or other unforeseen weak points is recommended to at least double the gas to around 400 liters. I would personally say 1000 liters to be sure, the amount only becomes unnecessary large over 3000l maybe.

All inert gases are compressed to around 100-200 times of atmospheric pressure. The cylinder may start at 7 liters but compressed 200 times it equals to 1400 liters approximately. Most cylinders list their total volume or pressure, you have to look at these numbers to determine how big your cylinder is.

I don't understand how it works though your saying if it says 7 liters it's compressed and has more so let's say it's the type of cylinder for filling latex balloons and it fills 50 of them so how much is that worth?! Otherwise where the hell can you get a cylinder with a 1000 liters

 

[DoubleUp8]

Actually I have found helium that's pure enough so how much does one actually need? Would seven litters be enough?! Does it go for five minutes!

I don't know but if you do it right it's supposed to be peaceful and painless
How do you know if it's pure enough. Some on here say don't believe what they tell you and apparently there's ways to measure purity

 

[Kapsyl]

I don't understand how it works though your saying if it says 7 liters it's compressed and has more so let's say it's the type of cylinder for filling latex balloons and it fills 50 of them so how much is that worth?! Otherwise where the hell can you get a cylinder with a 1000 liters

A "big" ballon cylinder as you're describing would equal approximately 380-400 liters, but you have to look at your particular cylinder to be sure. But be advised through ballon helium is often at a slightly less purity than the industrial standards. I've seen professional helium cylinders to be as low as 95% purity. Some U.S manufacturers have even as low as 80% purity in their cylinders!

The pph advice using an inert gas of at least 97% purity and others on the forum would argue at least 99.7% purity.

Most people here use nitrogen instead because it's cheaper and more easily obtained at a sufficiently high purity. For reference this is how a 1000 liter cylinder could look like.

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

A "big" ballon cylinder as you're describing would equal approximately 380-400 liters, but you have to look at your particular cylinder to be sure. But be advised through ballon helium is often at a slightly less purity than the industrial standards. I've seen professional helium cylinders to be as low as 95% purity. Some U.S manufacturers have even as low as 80% purity in their cylinders!

The pph advice using an inert gas of at least 97% purity and others on the forum would argue at least 99.7% purity.

Most people here use nitrogen instead because it's cheaper and more easily obtained at a sufficiently high purity. For reference this is how a 1000 liter cylinder could look like.

View attachment 141797

I'm certain of the helium purity the only problem is the amount in it, i don't live in the west and in my country there's a local manufacturer that makes industrial grade helium so that part is guaranteed but if the amount in it isn't enough to be lethal what the hell am i to do lol i guess I'll just have to check if i can find nitrogen maybe else where

 

[Kapsyl]

I'm certain of the helium purity the only problem is the amount in it, i don't live in the west and in my country there's a local manufacturer that makes industrial grade helium so that part is guaranteed but if the amount in it isn't enough to be lethal what the hell am i to do lol i guess I'll just have to check if i can find nitrogen maybe else where

I'm having a feeling that you're not fully understanding what I'm trying to explain to you. How do you know the purity, is their any specifications on that particular cylinder your set on getting? What's the amount 7 liters? At what pressure?

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

I'm having a feeling that you're not fully understanding what I'm trying to explain to you. How do you know the purity, is their any specifications on that particular cylinder your set on getting? What's the amount 7 liters? At what pressure?

Lol yeah ofcourse it's written on the cylinder there's a specific number and it says industrial grade helium 99.99% pure so yes like i said I'm absolutely aware concerning that part and it has 7 litters i don't know at what pressure I'll check and see

 

[Kapsyl]

Lol yeah ofcourse it's written on the cylinder there's a specific number and it says industrial grade helium 99.99% pure so yes like i said I'm absolutely aware concerning that part and it has 7 litters i don't know at what pressure I'll check and see

In that case you should probably be good, most pressurized cylinder are in the range of 120-200 bar. So if the vessel is 7 liters it gives us 840 liters in the lowest normal pressure (120 bar).

 

[Harryv4775]

In that case you should probably be good, most pressurized cylinder are in the range of 120-200 bar. So if the vessel is 7 liters it gives us 840 liters in the lowest normal pressure (120 bar).

hey man! You seem to know a lot about this stuff. My helium tank is BalloonTime, commercially bought for parties etc. It says it has the following: Net contents: Helium 0.25m3 (8.9 CU. FT.) This is about 250 litres i would consider right? Also if it had air they would have to say it has air right? Would you trust it?

 

[Not A Fan]

hey man! You seem to know a lot about this stuff. My helium tank is BalloonTime, commercially bought for parties etc. It says it has the following: Net contents: Helium 0.25m3 (8.9 CU. FT.) This is about 250 litres i would consider right? Also if it had air they would have to say it has air right? Would you trust it?

Didn't balloon time start cutting their helium with oxygen? Several years they have been doing this now.

 

[Kapsyl]

hey man! You seem to know a lot about this stuff. My helium tank is BalloonTime, commercially bought for parties etc. It says it has the following: Net contents: Helium 0.25m3 (8.9 CU. FT.) This is about 250 litres i would consider right? Also if it had air they would have to say it has air right? Would you trust it?

Ballon time is a no go, they add at least 20% air to the mixture specifically to deter suicide. The helium purity isn't high enough and you end up sitting there with a bag on your head feeling disappointed.

It's clearly stated on their website, they even brag about it lol.

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

Ballon time is a no go, they add at least 20% air to the mixture specifically to deter suicide. The helium purity isn't high enough and you end up sitting there with a bag on your head feeling disappointed.

It's clearly stated on their website, they even brag about it

Heey by the way speaking of helium tanks i was wondering if one had a tank like that with 28 bars of pressure in it you wouldn't need a regulator right? Considering that the pressure is not high and you can manage the cylinder just by opening it slightly (as little as possible) that's what they do in the dignified helium exit video where they don't use a regulator so is the pressure i mentioned low enough for it to work straight up without needing to use one?!

 

[Kapsyl]

Heey by the way speaking of helium tanks i was wondering if one had a tank like that with 28 bars of pressure in it you wouldn't need a regulator right? Considering that the pressure is not high and you can manage the cylinder just by opening it slightly (as little as possible) that's what they do in the dignified helium exit video where they don't use a regulator so is the pressure i mentioned low enough for it to work straight up without needing to use one?!

Which such a low pressure it shouldn't be any problem, what is troubling is without a flowmeter you would have no way to determine how much gas is flowing. Which is detrimental if your supply is limited.

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

Which such a low pressure it shouldn't be any problem, what is troubling is without a flowmeter you would have no way to determine how much gas is flowing. Which is detrimental if your supply is limited.

What about having an overall of 420 liters? I already read that this was more than enough for ctb so in that case I'm guessing one wouldn't need a flowmeter right there's no use for it since the supply is sufficient

 

[Kapsyl]

What about having an overall of 420 liters? I already read that this was more than enough for ctb so in that case I'm guessing one wouldn't need a flowmeter right there's no use for it since the supply is sufficient

Because you wouldn't be able to calculate how long it would last, if the gas would run out midway it could give you irreversible brain damage if you survived. But if you're willing to risk that possibility it's doable.

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

Because you wouldn't be able to calculate how long it would last, if the gas would run out midway it could give you irreversible brain damage if you survived. But if you're willing to risk that possibility it's doable.

I know it's kinda weird to ask this now but for the people who have tried and experienced inert gas there aren't any secondary effects right? I mean you inhale and you don't feel anything until you're out unconscious quickly enough is that it or am i missing something I've also read that something like a seizure could only happen if you're not doing the process right which should deliver one of the quickest deaths that can be in the range of 3 minutes only!

 

[Kapsyl]

I know it's kinda weird to ask this now but for the people who have tried and experienced inert gas there aren't any secondary effects right? I mean you inhale and you don't feel anything until you're out unconscious quickly enough is that it or am i missing something I've also read that something like a seizure could only happen if you're not doing the process right which should deliver one of the quickest deaths that can be in the range of 3 minutes only!

In the case of nitrogen I didn't really feel anything particularly strange by breathing it. But the knowledge about its lethality makes you kinda hypersensitive about any irregularities in the body, like the increased hearth rate. If I were to use my setup believing it was ordinary air instead of nitrogen, I wouldn't know what hit me.

Haven't heard many cases of seizures, people going limp is one thing because you know unconsciousness. But full out seizures, maybe if the oxygen level Isn't low enough and it gets way prolonged.

Death will occur under ideal conditions at around 10-12 min, 3 min isn't enough time to starve the cells of their vital oxygen and you would likely recover.

 

[outrider567]

I know it's kinda weird to ask this now but for the people who have tried and experienced inert gas there aren't any secondary effects right? I mean you inhale and you don't feel anything until you're out unconscious quickly enough is that it or am i missing something I've also read that something like a seizure could only happen if you're not doing the process right which should deliver one of the quickest deaths that can be in the range of 3 minutes only!

I've experimented 6 times on myself--You don't feel anything, its just like breathing air, no seizures have ever happened, nobody has failed with the Nitrogen method--Of course, with the Oximeter on your finger, you'll notice your heart rate go up quickly, but that's totally normal--There are no secondary effects, and I got my O2 level down to 40

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

I've experimented 6 times on myself--You don't feel anything, its just like breathing air, no seizures have ever happened, nobody has failed with the Nitrogen method--Of course, with the Oximeter on your finger, you'll notice your heart rate go up quickly, but that's totally normal--There are no secondary effects, and I got my O2 level down to 40

So you don't feel the oxygen deprivation effect even with the heart rate i suppose it's not much but how long do you think it takes for unconsciousness to happen? I'm guessing 2 minutes tops cuz after two breaths or more it has to be lights our

 

[outrider567]

So you don't feel the oxygen deprivation effect even with the heart rate i suppose it's not much but how long do you think it takes for unconsciousness to happen? I'm guessing 2 minutes tops cuz after two breaths or more it has to be lights our

There's no oxygen deprivation effects, the body acts like its just breathing air--I've never had the EEBD Hood on for more than thirty seconds, unconciousness supposedly happens once the O2 level hits 25

 

[rj3542]

So you don't feel the oxygen deprivation effect even with the heart rate i suppose it's not much but how long do you think it takes for unconsciousness to happen? I'm guessing 2 minutes tops cuz after two breaths or more it has to be lights our

I have a nitrogen set with EEBD hood. After about 5 deep breaths, my heart started racing, I had anxiety, and my arms became jerky. I tried twice and got O2 sat down in the 50a and had to pull the hood off. I think it's a little.trickier than it sounds unless your an elderly fragile person. If someone can persist through the SI, with enough inert gas and making sure CO2 can exit and air isn't getting in, then it should work quickly. You can see trouble people had if you search inert gas or nitrogen and failure. Those threads helped me troubleshoot but I couldn't get past my.own SI on it.

 

[MBG]

How I wish the Respiro Rebreather lll had worked reliably. It was the ideal method: no risk from parts (not flammable, not toxic, not explosive), quick, clean, painless, reliable death, small, light, transportable (use it at home, in your car, in a park or sea shore), no terror before, during or after use, no risk to others before, during or after use, affordable, "pretty" corpse for witnesses and first responders—I could go on and on.

Maybe they will release a revised model: Rebreather lV?

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

I have a nitrogen set with EEBD hood. After about 5 deep breaths, my heart started racing, I had anxiety, and my arms became jerky. I tried twice and got O2 sat down in the 50a and had to pull the hood off. I think it's a little.trickier than it sounds unless your an elderly fragile person. If someone can persist through the SI, with enough inert gas and making sure CO2 can exit and air isn't getting in, then it should work quickly. You can see trouble people had if you search inert gas or nitrogen and failure. Those threads helped me troubleshoot but I couldn't get past my.own SI on it.

So basically you're saying u got anxious and your SI kicked in with the heart rate making it worse that doesn't mean the effects in themselves are painful plus having enough gas and assuring there's no leak that's the minimum necessary for the process to work properly SI is just people getting scarred so if one wants it really bad then they can get over that part but by the way if everything is really done properly then fainting is what should rapidly occur without any other symptoms i think it might be a matter of making sure u have the right concentration if any air is coming in then we're not doing it properly and that's what can cause things to be uncomfortable

 

[rj3542]

So basically you're saying u got anxious and your SI kicked in with the heart rate making it worse that doesn't mean the effects in themselves are painful plus having enough gas and assuring there's no leak that's the minimum necessary for the process to work properly SI is just people getting scarred so if one wants it really bad then they can get over that part but by the way if everything is really done properly then fainting is what should rapidly occur without any other symptoms i think it might be a matter of making sure u have the right concentration if any air is coming in then we're not doing it properly and that's what can cause things to be uncomfortable

I tried 20lpm and 25 lpm. It was the jerky arm movements that made me stop. I should be losing consciousness with O2 sat in the 50s. Have you done a test run? What helped you get over the SI? Looking for help. Thanks!

 

[outrider567]

I tried 20lpm and 25 lpm. It was the jerky arm movements that made me stop. I should be losing consciousness with O2 sat in the 50s. Have you done a test run? What helped you get over the SI? Looking for help. Thanks!

You don't know what your O2 level was because you took off the flowmeter same time as the Hood, there is a ten second delay, during that delay my level dropped from 80 to 40, so your level may actually been at 30 or so

 

[heavenplzhelp77]

In the case of nitrogen I didn't really feel anything particularly strange by breathing it. But the knowledge about its lethality makes you kinda hypersensitive about any irregularities in the body, like the increased hearth rate. If I were to use my setup believing it was ordinary air instead of nitrogen, I wouldn't know what hit me.

Haven't heard many cases of seizures, people going limp is one thing because you know unconsciousness. But full out seizures, maybe if the oxygen level Isn't low enough and it gets way prolonged.

Death will occur under ideal conditions at around 10-12 min, 3 min isn't enough time to starve the cells of their vital oxygen and you would likely recover.

I was wondering when you have a cylinder with a higher bar number (pressure) does that mean the flow rate is going to be higher and the gas flows out more quickly?! Even if the cylinder is opened only slightly right at the minimum does the flow rate still differ depending on the bar number for example 27bar vs 18bar

 

[trs]

Actually I have found helium that's pure enough so how much does one actually need? Would seven litters be enough?! Does it go for five minutes!

where did you find nearly pure helium?

I've experimented 6 times on myself--You don't feel anything, its just like breathing air, no seizures have ever happened, nobody has failed with the Nitrogen method--Of course, with the Oximeter on your finger, you'll notice your heart rate go up quickly, but that's totally normal--There are no secondary effects, and I got my O2 level down to 40

Hi outrider567,
The increase in heart rate was not noticeable to you, then? I'm hypersensitive, so easily pick up on changes to my body which then causes a hypersympathetic/adrenaline response in me. Do you feel comfortable going forward at this point?

I have a nitrogen set with EEBD hood. After about 5 deep breaths, my heart started racing, I had anxiety, and my arms became jerky. I tried twice and got O2 sat down in the 50a and had to pull the hood off. I think it's a little.trickier than it sounds unless your an elderly fragile person. If someone can persist through the SI, with enough inert gas and making sure CO2 can exit and air isn't getting in, then it should work quickly. You can see trouble people had if you search inert gas or nitrogen and failure. Those threads helped me troubleshoot but I couldn't get past my.own SI on it.

Hi rj3542
I've heard exit guides say that the individual is usually unconscious after just a few breaths and about 10-15 sec. (and without 02 sat. staying as low as you state for very long) so I'm surprised you lasted that long. Your adrenal response must be very strong and your body must strongly want to keep itself going.

I tried 20lpm and 25 lpm. It was the jerky arm movements that made me stop. I should be losing consciousness with O2 sat in the 50s. Have you done a test run? What helped you get over the SI? Looking for help. Thanks!

What do you think the jerky arm movements is about? I haven't heard of this as a problem before, except some anecdotes of it happening once a person is unconscious.