Discussion "Incelism" and CTB

[Michelstaedter]

For a long time, I had a problem that some may have already talked about, but I personally want to express it so that those who have lived or are living in a similar situation to mine can think about it.

I'm a chaste, mid-30s man who understands that I'll never have a girlfriend or children, and I'll probably never have sex unless I pay for it. Throughout my teens and young adulthood, I struggled to cope with this, to the point where I had suicidal and homicidal thoughts, and I harbored hatred or resentment, both toward people in relationships and even toward women. My problem was solved by understanding that having a girlfriend was not the solution to an existential problem or to the hatred I have for life-existence whose pain has no name or gender, nor is it as if life seems detestable to me just because there are bad people, but because of many, many things that I could list and perhaps many agree that life is not great, not only because you are depressed, but because you know that others are the same and there is that empathy that makes you see that while you may be happy, someone else is suffering somewhere in the world (and unfairly). That led me to understand that in my case, not having had a girlfriend, others could have been in their first relationship, also girls who perhaps do not meet that stereotype of being bad people, self-interested or cruel when they reject a boy, so I dispelled that hatred and became more cautious with my thoughts, because in the end nobody was to blame, not even me, because all this is a social problem, where some people act in a certain role and become detestable because it seems that in this life there has to be a duality of "good people" so that there are also "bad people", otherwise one thing would not exist in the other, at least in theory.

I want to conclude my brief presentation by saying that I say this because recently in my country a case occurred where a 19-year-old boy killed a classmate because of those radical INCEL ideas that exist on some social networks, so I felt compelled to write this because I felt identified when I was a teenager, I even remember when the Elliot Rodger case first came out and I felt lucky not to be as radical as him, but I felt strange about his situation since he had money, a certain physical attractiveness and I had neither, but he had a hatred that although I had felt, had never reached that degree as to "make my INCEL redemption" and that would lead to a total tragedy. I thought about committing CTB for being an INCEL, I seriously thought about it when 12 years ago a girl rejected me and somehow I felt that I had deserved to at least have had another date (I only went out with her once, she never accepted a second date) and I really felt bad, I felt ugly, I felt as if I was literally a cockroach or something too disgusting for a woman to notice me, although today I do not have those kinds of thoughts and feelings, I understand that it would have been foolish of me to have committed CTB for a reason like that, so I hope those who think that being ugly or feeling miserable, horrible or unworthy of a woman paying attention to them, reflect on those kinds of thoughts, since deep down it is not your fault to have been born with an unattractive physique, nor with social skills or a certain charisma that is attractive to women, so I truly wish that those who think of committing CTB for that reason, reflect and yes, know that Life is shit, but not necessarily because of that, but because of its essence and that in the end not having had a girlfriend, or sex, or being attractive to a woman is an argument to leave this world.

 

[Off_Switch]

But what DIDN'T Elliot Rodger have? A decent personality. He probably could have pulled someone if he did. May not have even been his fault, as he appeared to be somewhat autistic. Have you tried glowing up and assessing whether you would appeal to women from a personality standpoint?

 

[Liebestod]

Elliot didn't have money, his mom had connections but that's about it, that's a common misconception about him and the Rodger family in general, they weren't rich they were upper middle class at best.

 

[persepexa]

This sounds really tough and I'm sorry you're going through this. Dating is tough for everyone. Everyone goes through rejection. I'm sure the situation isn't hopeless though. There are always things you can do to meet people. People with shared interests you can bond over. I don't think it's necessarily about "attracting" someone. Being attractive is part of it but there's more to being attractive than how you look. Being kind, listening to people, caring for others, those things make you attractive too. I can't lie I don't really understand incels too well but I don't think being celibate is a bad thing. You shouldn't see it as a punishment. It's just what you're going through right now, it doesn't have to last forever.

 

[Michelstaedter]

But what DIDN'T Elliot Rodger have? A decent personality. He probably could have pulled someone if he did. May not have even been his fault, as he appeared to be somewhat autistic. Have you tried glowing up and assessing whether you would appeal to women from a personality standpoint?

Several years ago, I tried. As I mentioned in part of my story, I felt I "deserved" one more date with a girl whose effort I felt was good because I didn't feel like I was overwhelming her in the pursuit, but I also didn't act like an indifferent guy, and so on with several others. However, it never worked out, and I'm talking about my time in college.
It's worth noting that I went to a psychologist and dealt with all that insecurity and low self-esteem stuff. That's why I say I don't care today, but I'm sorry that so many are going through it and want to die for it.

Elliot didn't have money, his mom had connections but that's about it, that's a common misconception about him and the Rodger family in general, they weren't rich they were upper middle class at best.

Well, maybe he wasn't rich, but at least he had more money than the average guy in my country and a more attractive physique than average, and that's what happened. In fact, I feel worse because driving gives me a lot of anxiety. I felt like I didn't have that attractive physique, and well, it doesn't matter. But my reflection in those days was: "If he had what he had and did that, what's in store for me?" That's why I gave up, and I suppose it was for the best. I stopped feeling hatred and contempt toward myself and, in general, toward others (regarding a relationship).

This sounds really tough and I'm sorry you're going through this. Dating is tough for everyone. Everyone goes through rejection. I'm sure the situation isn't hopeless though. There are always things you can do to meet people. People with shared interests you can bond over. I don't think it's necessarily about "attracting" someone. Being attractive is part of it but there's more to being attractive than how you look. Being kind, listening to people, caring for others, those things make you attractive too. I can't lie I don't really understand incels too well but I don't think being celibate is a bad thing. You shouldn't see it as a punishment. It's just what you're going through right now, it doesn't have to last forever.

No, in fact, that situation doesn't hurt me anymore. I only regret it because there are guys who remind me of me and think about doing something that might not be right, whether it's hurting someone or hurting themselves. Today, I don't think my idea of CTB has even a little relation to not having had a girlfriend or sex. In fact, I feel like I'd rather die than fantasize about having a relationship, children, and all that, because it doesn't interest me; I'm not interested in a relationship anymore.

 

[Bronzehawkattack]

I disagree with your way of thinking.
I think that genuinely if I were able to be loved, suicide wouldn't be such a tantalizing option for me.
I don't think incel ideas are too extreme and radical. The world is only moving further in that direction, we were just early to the party, younger men are more and more dissatisfied with the way they're treated, in dating, in life.

It's tough moving through the world knowing people view you as lesser.
That other people have it much easier just because they look better, not even some type of positive quality of their personality.

But what DIDN'T Elliot Rodger have? A decent personality. He probably could have pulled someone if he did. May not have even been his fault, as he appeared to be somewhat autistic. Have you tried glowing up and assessing whether you would appeal to women from a personality standpoint?

This is the problem with viewing Elliot Rodgers as an incel, and the faction of incels who worship him tend to be the dumbest people on the planet.
Elliot Rodgers was a volcel. He self-admitted to being able to get interest from girls. You can plainly see the guy wasn't ugly. He didn't struggle for money. His brother is a model for fucks sake.

His entire thing was that he was obsessed with 10/10 beautiful Blonde white girls.
And more than that, he believed that they should approach him and ask him out. He was upset that they never did.

How is that comparable to a genuinely ugly freak like actual, real incels, who don't come from privileged families and blessed with good looks?
He has nothing in common. He could have gotten laid anytime he wanted, and the fact that people ever worshipped him on incel forums is what made me distance myself from those forums, more than the hate, more than the extremism.

 

[Forever Sleep]

When I was younger, if I'd known the term, I probably would have identified as a femcel. I was accutely aware that I didn't have the desired attributes of other girls/ women. And yes, I suppose I did feel some resentment towards men. That they would go for such shallow attributes first and, not look beyond. That's not to say all men do that. That's not to say women don't do the same.

I was a hypocrite under it all. My crushes were all of attractive guys. Not necessarily tall or wealthy though. I'd say some incels are hypocrites too. They aren't moaning that the fat chick won't give them a chance. They likely also have their eyes set on something more desirable.

I think it's kind of damaging the way we are taught though really. That everyone deserves love. On the face of it, that seems fair. People certainly deserve respect. They deserve not to be abused or ridiculed but- love? Love surely develops because one person admires the attributes (whatever they may be) of another.

Preference ultimately. It's not fair to expect someone to devour strawberry ice cream if they hate the stuff. I think there is this totally bizarre feeling that dating should be based on some kind of equal opportunites basis. Obviously, it doesn't work like that! We aren't even friends with people we don't particularly like. We certainly wouldn't want to exchange bodily fluids with them.

I can understand being upset about that. I was too. We can't exactly help what we're born with. I can understand hating society and biology for prioritizing attributes that we don't have. But, individuals? That's where I take issue I guess. I think there is massive resentment/ anger from (some) incels towards individual women. Which ironically, makes them all the more unattractive- unfortunately.

Instead, I wish they would register that we are all influenced by our biology, what we are taught is attractive etc. Most of us aren't completely immune to that. Even them. They likely have a preference too. If they are really up for dating just anyone- how long would that even last?

 

[Kitsune_BCN]

I couldnt have explained it better @Forever Sleep