In the US, what can we talk to a therapist or anyone else about without getting dragged away and locked up?

[Ann M.]

If I tell people I'm planning to go to switzerland or somewhere else in europe in the next couple years or so to do it - can I be forced into a mental hospital for that? My understanding is they only do it if you have the means to ctb and are actually planning to do it soon. I'd really like to have a rational discussion with someone about it. So I can make the appropriate plans etc. But people are so weird in that they get completely freaked out about any talk of it.

In my case, I wouldn't be doing it for a while and only if my life doesn't get significantly better (which seems doubtful)

When I woke up today, I felt more committed to doing it eventually and I feel so much more at peace now because of it. Not existing would be better than the life I have now and am likely to have, so it would really be a relief. But I do have a number of things I'd want to get in place first.

 

[usernamesarehard]

It depends on the therapist. I told my councilor (who is also a therapist) about my want to ctb. Didn't get locked up. I actually have another appointment with her this week to talk. I made it clear that I wasn't going to do it anytime soon.

I have seen posts that some people got locked up for being honest with their therapist. So yeah, it depends.

 

[alwaysalone]

What Is Involuntary Commitment (Civil Commitment)?

Involuntary commitment is a legal process to provide care to someone who needs it. It may save their life. Learn more here.

my.clevelandclinic.org

As with all things in America states may have different laws. This is a general breakdown from the Cleveland clinic a well respected health facility. Most states follow the general imminent threat rule for a 72 hr hold. Generally it is far far harder to get someone committed long term. Look up your state laws.

 

[crashingwaves12]

In my experience you can admit you have those thoughts but NEVER say you have a plan if you admit to having those thoughts thatll get you admitted

 

[quietwoods]

Besides being a threat to yourself, the other is being a threat to others.

The key point is actively being a threat to yourself or others, not having had thoughts in the past.

 

[alwaysalone]

It depends on the therapist. I told my councilor (who is also a therapist) about my want to ctb. Didn't get locked up. I actually have another appointment with her this week to talk. I made it clear that I wasn't going to do it anytime soon.

I have seen posts that some people got locked up for being honest with their therapist. So yeah, it depends.

Did they have the means and opportunity? Or were they just saying they wanted to? Typically you have to show an true imminent threat o yourself or others and have the means to carry it out at your disposal.

 

[Romanticize]

Yes, in theory you can be locked up against your will.
I have been, twice (not in US but I believe laws are similar).

This is why you shouldn't tell your therapist about specific plan. You can tell him that you are thinking about suicide, or some other general wording (they are psychiatrists, they hear it a lot), but if you will be very specific about your plan (i.e. purchased some stuff, purchased tickets to Switzerland, or have a hotel resevation, specific date) then yes, you can be assessed as "threat to yourself or others"

 

[madwoman8]

I wish I could, I just was thinking the other day how nice it would be to seriously discuss it with a therapist. So that they can then help you cope with it, deal with all the feelings with tidying up your affairs, help write letters, help your family come to terms with it etc. it's a lot to think about and plan and to prepare for on your own. At least we can talk about it freely on here. I have told my therapist I'm suicidal or ill say my thoughts get really dark… and I can talk about it a bit but nothing further along the planning route - like I did not tell her I have a method and that I'm both planning this and trying to see if I can improve anything to stay. But I can describe how lonely and dark I feel. When I had a more serious talk with her after a really bad night, she did ask if it'd help if I go to a hospital and I said no that'd be worse. So she was assessing me but being open where I can talk a bit about it - more like it's a symptom. So I can get some relief talking about it & she's helping me not think that way. But I do feel bad for when she would find out and I don't want her to blame herself so that's a hard territory too :/ it should be more talked about bc it's such a lonely feeling.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

The problem is there is an inherent desire in humans, most humans, to save others similar to themselves.

So if you are emotionally connecting with a therapist, and then say "oh by the way I'm going to end it," they will want to save you.

It also is emotionally upsetting for the person hearing that someone else plans to die.

Sometimes I think involuntary hospitalization is a punishment for people discussing that they want to commit suicide. In other words, society is absolutely fine with people committing suicide. They do things, like allow homelessness and don't provide medical care, that will lead to suicide. Suicide may even be an expected part of how society works. But also, suicide is upsetting, so society has to pretend as a collective whole that it's bad and not allowed and since it's officially upsetting to others, the punishment for telling others you will do it is involuntary hospitalization.

Based on how awful involuntary hospitalization is, it certainly feels like a punishment. I wouldn't risk straddling some grey area with therapists and psychiatrists because of how poorly they treat involuntarily hospitalized people. You have no dignity at all and are treated as less than dirt and if you complain it's always deemed as being because of symptoms or that poor treatment is needed for safety reasons.

I don't see a psychiatrist or therapist primarily out of concerns about my privacy and having my autonomy taken away. If I could virtually see someone for free, and really trust that it was private, I probably would.

Also if you are ever involuntarily hospitalized, all of your life and trauma are shared with everyone who works there, including people who may be cruel or even emotionally abusive or worse. If you refuse to provide records to those working there, they can refuse to release you potentially because you aren't being "transparent," their favorite buzzword for taking away any privacy and dignity you have.

But it's your choice. I wouldn't stick my toe into an alligator infested pond. You can tell people like that you are "extraordinarily depressed" while denying being suicidal. You can describe horrific symptoms without saying suicidal if you are still trying to find the magic talk therapy or pill that will make life better. Personally, I view it all to be one inefficacious money-sucking machine that is good for separating those in society who don't function well from their money. It's a legal duping, with enough flim-flam statistics to make it not technically fraud.

I think many people who've tried years of therapy and drugs would have been better off with the money saved.

 

[usernamesarehard]

Did they have the means and opportunity? Or were they just saying they wanted to? Typically you have to show an true imminent threat o yourself or others and have the means to carry it out at your disposal.

I told her I had my method and a plan on how I wanted to die. I think the only thing that saved me was saying I wanted to do it sometime next year.

But I'm not sure if saying 'I want to kill myself 2 years from now' WON'T get you locked up, and I don't want to tell the OP that it's ok to talk to your therapist and then they end up getting hospitalized.

 

[darkandtwisty]

My therapist flat out told me if I ever SH or anything, she'll report it. Any suicidal ideation, she'll report it.

 

[SeafoamSkeleton]

I think the best route is to ask what their policy is and what their experiences with this sort of thing are first. I asked my therapist and they told me unless I had means and intent and was basically doing it in front of them or right after we talked, they didn't feel they had a legal obligation to get me locked up. They said they have never had anyone involuntary committed, but they have told three people that they have to go check themselves in. All that being said, I've still been too paranoid to say much about it myself.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

they can report you at any time for any reason, even if they just suspect you are lying, if they think you are of imminent risk of harm to yourself or others

 

[Ann M.]

Besides being a threat to yourself, the other is being a threat to others.

The key point is actively being a threat to yourself or others, not having had thoughts in the past.

Im definitely not a threat to anyone else

I wish I could, I just was thinking the other day how nice it would be to seriously discuss it with a therapist. So that they can then help you cope with it, deal with all the feelings with tidying up your affairs, help write letters, help your family come to terms with it etc. it's a lot to think about and plan and to prepare for on your own. At least we can talk about it freely on here. I have told my therapist I'm suicidal or ill say my thoughts get really dark… and I can talk about it a bit but nothing further along the planning route - like I did not tell her I have a method and that I'm both planning this and trying to see if I can improve anything to stay. But I can describe how lonely and dark I feel. When I had a more serious talk with her after a really bad night, she did ask if it'd help if I go to a hospital and I said no that'd be worse. So she was assessing me but being open where I can talk a bit about it - more like it's a symptom. So I can get some relief talking about it & she's helping me not think that way. But I do feel bad for when she would find out and I don't want her to blame herself so that's a hard territory too :/ it should be more talked about bc it's such a lonely feeling.

Yeah, we should be able to talk about it without being afraid. It shouldn't be so taboo

I wish I could, I just was thinking the other day how nice it would be to seriously discuss it with a therapist. So that they can then help you cope with it, deal with all the feelings with tidying up your affairs, help write letters, help your family come to terms with it etc. it's a lot to think about and plan and to prepare for on your own. At least we can talk about it freely on here. I have told my therapist I'm suicidal or ill say my thoughts get really dark… and I can talk about it a bit but nothing further along the planning route - like I did not tell her I have a method and that I'm both planning this and trying to see if I can improve anything to stay. But I can describe how lonely and dark I feel. When I had a more serious talk with her after a really bad night, she did ask if it'd help if I go to a hospital and I said no that'd be worse. So she was assessing me but being open where I can talk a bit about it - more like it's a symptom. So I can get some relief talking about it & she's helping me not think that way. But I do feel bad for when she would find out and I don't want her to blame herself so that's a hard territory too :/ it should be more talked about bc it's such a lonely feeling.

Yeah, we should be able to talk about it without being afraid. It shouldn't be so taboo

 

[amerie]

My therapist flat out told me if I ever SH or anything, she'll report it. Any suicidal ideation, she'll report it.

What's even the point of having a therapist then? How can you talk about what's bothering you if you'll just get sent to the ward?

 

[kitkat9234]

In my experience you can admit you have those thoughts but NEVER say you have a plan if you admit to having those thoughts thatll get you admitted

This. I tell my medication lady that I have daily thoughts of CTB but tell her that I don't have a medication pan (I do). I guess it may depend on the state or therapist but I'm pretty sure if you say you don't have a plan they can't commit you. Good luck.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

What's even the point of having a therapist then? How can you talk about what's bothering you if you'll just get sent to the ward?

There may not be one. If you are suicidal and don't want involuntary hospitalization, avoiding therapists, psychiatrists, and suicide hotlines is an important part of having options.

If you talk with a professional about suicide plans, they are often required to summon workers to forcibly kidnap and imprison you in a mental health facility.

I question whether therapy and pills really do anything other than waste money and time. Life is fine, death is fine, being kidnapped and locked up and labeled a mental defective forever is not fine. The medications also often have permanent irreversible side effects (shaking, twitching, possible even worse mental health, it's hard to know because few longitudinal studies compare two groups with similar symptoms who use or don't use medication and see what happens over 30 years).

Sometimes medication and therapy help people in transient situations, but for people who have been depressed every year the past decade and can't recall a month in which they didn't have suicidal thoughts, it's questionable if medication and therapy do anything other than suck up money from vulnerable people.

 

[amerie]

There may not be one. If you are suicidal and don't want involuntary hospitalization, avoiding therapists, psychiatrists, and suicide hotlines is an important part of having options.

If you talk with a professional about suicide plans, they are often required to summon workers to forcibly kidnap and imprison you in a mental health facility.

I question whether therapy and pills really do anything other than waste money and time. Life is fine, death is fine, being kidnapped and locked up and labeled a mental defective forever is not fine. The medications also often have permanent irreversible side effects (shaking, twitching, possible even worse mental health, it's hard to know because few longitudinal studies compare two groups with similar symptoms who use or don't use medication and see what happens over 30 years).

Sometimes medication and therapy help people in transient situations, but for people who have been depressed every year the past decade and can't recall a month in which they didn't have suicidal thoughts, it's questionable if medication and therapy do anything other than suck up money from vulnerable people.

American therapy is a scam, I've been 4x and they were all useless airheads (and I'm saying this as a dumbass bitch myself.) They all gave me advice that was basically "just don't" or stuff you'd hear in a YouTube comment section. Just left me feeling worse or like something was wrong with me, and then I felt defeated because by the 4th I realized that I'm just fucked, there is no light. I was born and I will die in the dark and there's nothing I can do other than temporary fixes like walking or some shit.

Never again. I can't wait to kms.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

American therapy is a scam, I've been 4x and they were all useless airheads (and I'm saying this as a dumbass bitch myself.) They all gave me advice that was basically "just don't" or stuff you'd hear in a YouTube comment section.

Never again. I can't wait to kms.

A lot of times the people are trying and sometimes patients do get better. It's just if you are suicidal, locked mental health facilities are so incredibly degrading that talking with professionals may no longer be worth the risk. You seem nice though and I hope things I prove for you.